It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i

On 2016-02-05, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

Oh, and the crane is 125 ton capacity.

i

"Ignoramus11775" wrote in message
...

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i
================================================== ============================

So, going to make a rotary phase converter out of it? :-) :-)

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i

What was the voltage?
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

The image cannot be displayed because it contains errors.


It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA.

Finally, the EPA does something right. If anything in the world could
cause AGWK, coal plants could, though I don't believe in AGWK.
Properly processed pocket nuclear would be good until we get real cold
fusion.


The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

Is that next on your dismantling list?


The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

Four 400hp motors, but WOW! I'd hate to get their electric bills...

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

--

On 2/4/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i


What size battery does it use? :-)
Mikek

Here's a picture of us unloading it at my place

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor-unloading.jpg

On 2016-02-05, Carl Ijames wrote:
"Ignoramus11775" wrote in message
...

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i
================================================= =============================

So, going to make a rotary phase converter out of it? :-) :-)

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On 2016-02-05, John B wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i

What was the voltage?

4100 volts

On 2016-02-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg
Finally, the EPA does something right. If anything in the world could
cause AGWK, coal plants could, though I don't believe in AGWK.
Properly processed pocket nuclear would be good until we get real cold
fusion.

I am also a big fan of nuclear power.


The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

Is that next on your dismantling list?

This is on my "hope to dismantle" list


The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

Four 400hp motors, but WOW! I'd hate to get their electric bills...


They love their electric bills, I am sure, as they make many times as
much from flying.

1600 hp = 1500 kW bill (I am guessing, considering all losses etc).

1500 kW in an hour at 6 cents per kWh, is 90 dollars per hour.

they make many times as much per hour

i

On 2016-02-05, dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

I am taking pictures of their place, as I work there.

They have enormous vertical pumps also, impellers about 12 ft in
diameter. Powered by what clearly looks like antique giant
motors. Much bigger than the motor in the photo that I posted.

i

"Ignoramus9436" wrote in message
...
On 2016-02-05, dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down
by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years
old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3
times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor
primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe
output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's
enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how
initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or
roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

I am taking pictures of their place, as I work there.

They have enormous vertical pumps also, impellers about 12 ft in
diameter. Powered by what clearly looks like antique giant
motors. Much bigger than the motor in the photo that I posted.

i

This is an electrically powered US aircraft carrier supplying Tacoma,
Washington during the winter of 1929-30, when a drought crippled their
hydro plant:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020247.jpg
The ship's electric propulsion motors totalled 180,000 HP. Electricity
was used as an automatic transmission connecting the high-speed
turbo-generators to the much slower propellor shafts, before we
learned to make sufficiently large and reliable reduction gearing.

WW2 submarines used electric drive motors about the size of yours.

-jsw

On 2016-02-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

The image cannot be displayed because it contains errors.

I downloaded it and it displays with xv with no problems.

Make sure that you got the whole file. It is 4.6 MB in size. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2016-02-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus9436" wrote in message
...
On 2016-02-05, dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down
by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years
old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3
times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor
primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe
output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's
enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how
initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or
roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

I am taking pictures of their place, as I work there.

They have enormous vertical pumps also, impellers about 12 ft in
diameter. Powered by what clearly looks like antique giant
motors. Much bigger than the motor in the photo that I posted.

i

This is an electrically powered US aircraft carrier supplying Tacoma,
Washington during the winter of 1929-30, when a drought crippled their
hydro plant:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020247.jpg
The ship's electric propulsion motors totalled 180,000 HP. Electricity
was used as an automatic transmission connecting the high-speed
turbo-generators to the much slower propellor shafts, before we
learned to make sufficiently large and reliable reduction gearing.

WW2 submarines used electric drive motors about the size of yours.

-jsw



This is amazing. Most locomotives and large mining trucks are still
electrically driven.

i

On Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:18:16 -0600, Ignoramus9436
wrote:

On 2016-02-05, John B wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html

i

What was the voltage?

4100 volts

No wonder the guys were wearing the thick canvas/rubber(?) arc-flash
suits.

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus9436" wrote in
message
...
On 2016-02-05, dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical
power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut
down
by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years
old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3
times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor
primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe
output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's
enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how
initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or
roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

I am taking pictures of their place, as I work there.

They have enormous vertical pumps also, impellers about 12 ft in
diameter. Powered by what clearly looks like antique giant
motors. Much bigger than the motor in the photo that I posted.

i

This is an electrically powered US aircraft carrier supplying
Tacoma,
Washington during the winter of 1929-30, when a drought crippled
their
hydro plant:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020247.jpg
The ship's electric propulsion motors totalled 180,000 HP.
Electricity
was used as an automatic transmission connecting the high-speed
turbo-generators to the much slower propellor shafts, before we
learned to make sufficiently large and reliable reduction gearing.

WW2 submarines used electric drive motors about the size of yours.

-jsw



This is amazing. Most locomotives and large mining trucks are still
electrically driven.

i

This was the first electric drive ship, from the same era as your
motor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Mexico_(BB-40)
"She ... and was used for the early development of PID controllers.
Invented by the Russian-American engineer Nicolas Minorsky for the
automated steering of ships, the devices have since become widespread
in control engineering."
Talented Russians invented plenty of things -- as refugees in America.

The USS Lexington in the previous photo was originally designed as a
battlecruiser and was thus overpowered as a lighter aircraft carrier.
In trials those electric motors pushed her to 39.81 MPH at 202,973 HP.
The ship's speed increased the load her planes could take off with.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6..._The_Flat_Tops

-jsw

On 02/06/2016 11:23 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:18:16 -0600, Ignoramus9436
wrote:

On 2016-02-05, John wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

....
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. ...
The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3 times bigger.
....
What was the voltage?

4100 volts

No wonder the guys were wearing the thick canvas/rubber(?) arc-flash
suits.
....

Ayup...

RCP motors are typically from 6.1 to 6.9 kV from 6,000 to 10,000 HP.
Still that'll be almost 1,000 A current, 330 A/phase...

Typical 1000 MWe spec's...

System Temperatu 537 °F
System Pressu 2250 psig)
Capacity: 78 750 gpm
Head: 365 ft
Power Input: 6 600 kW
Motor Voltage: 6 900 V

Some of the (tiny little) physical dimensions...

Length of Stator Cable: 15 748 ft (~3 miles)
Overall Pump Length: 265 in ( 22 ft)
Total Weight: 139 442 lb (697 ton)

There's four of these per plant so they alone are a plant load of 26.4
MWe. I mentioned earlier turning them on is how they raise plant
temperature to hot-zero power conditions before going online...

There are bigger motors; these are remarkable in that the run 100% of
time plants are operational and I can't recall ever they being the cause
of an outage. I'm sure there have been but they are remarkably reliable
given their size and complexity...

--

On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus9436" wrote in
message
...
On 2016-02-05, dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical
power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut
down
by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years
old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3
times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor
primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe
output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's
enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how
initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or
roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

I am taking pictures of their place, as I work there.

They have enormous vertical pumps also, impellers about 12 ft in
diameter. Powered by what clearly looks like antique giant
motors. Much bigger than the motor in the photo that I posted.

i

This is an electrically powered US aircraft carrier supplying
Tacoma,
Washington during the winter of 1929-30, when a drought crippled
their
hydro plant:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020247.jpg
The ship's electric propulsion motors totalled 180,000 HP.
Electricity
was used as an automatic transmission connecting the high-speed
turbo-generators to the much slower propellor shafts, before we
learned to make sufficiently large and reliable reduction gearing.

WW2 submarines used electric drive motors about the size of yours.

-jsw



This is amazing. Most locomotives and large mining trucks are still
electrically driven.

i

This was the first electric drive ship, from the same era as your
motor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Mexico_(BB-40)
"She ... and was used for the early development of PID controllers.
Invented by the Russian-American engineer Nicolas Minorsky for the
automated steering of ships, the devices have since become widespread
in control engineering."
Talented Russians invented plenty of things -- as refugees in America.

The USS Lexington in the previous photo was originally designed as a
battlecruiser and was thus overpowered as a lighter aircraft carrier.
In trials those electric motors pushed her to 39.81 MPH at 202,973 HP.
The ship's speed increased the load her planes could take off with.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6..._The_Flat_Tops

I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies, it is
fascinating.

i

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies, it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

-jsw

On Feb 6, 2016, Jim Wilkins wrote
(in article ):

idwrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim wrote:

I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies, it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.
Here is the core circuit of the pre-transistor circuit:

..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_hybrid

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
s.com...
On Feb 6, 2016, Jim Wilkins wrote
(in article ):

idwrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim wrote:

I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.
Here is the core circuit of the pre-transistor circuit:

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_hybrid

Joe Gwinn

Instead of the phone circuit it shows the Central Office interface
between a two-wire local subscriber line and 4-wire long distance
lines with amplifiers for each direction.

The hybrid combines or separates the mouth and ear signals so
effectively that a little of the user's voice has to be leaked back
into their ear as "sidetone" to keep them from shouting. It "knows"
the difference between the transmit and receive signals in the single
wire pair. We learned the possibly bad habit of blowing gently and
silently into the microphone to make a sound that only appears in the
speaker.

This covers the circuit pretty well.
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/teleinterface.html

The memory aid we learned for the functions a telephone switch must
perform is BORSCHT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BORSCHT

Transistors enabled many improvements but 1950's rotary dial phones
with no active electronics still work on the system.

-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:n961vj$blk$1
@dont-email.me:

Transistors enabled many improvements but 1950's rotary dial phones
with no active electronics still work on the system.

I have an old WECO model 500 set I use in my shop for nostalgia that works
perfectly!

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 4.170:

I have an old WECO model 500 set I use in my shop for nostalgia that
works

'Should have said "1952 model 500". There were later ones.

Lloyd

On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies, it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

I could tell you (in too much detail) how automated connections
were made by at least one set of equipment -- the "Strowger switch",
invented by a somewhat paranoid undertaker who believed that is
competitor's wife (who was a telephone operator) was directing potential
customers to her husband). That was initially picked up by a company
called "Automatic Electric".

AT&T (Ma Bell) used that system for small-down setups later,
calling them "10x10s" in contrast to the crossbar switches used in the
more complex exchanges.

Mechanically, the switch is an amazing bit of engineering, and
relay logic was my first experience with logic circuits (long before the
ICs which continued the principles), with special relays set up to be
slow to pick up, or slow to release along with the normal speed ones.
The connection to the phone came though a two-coil relay, which both
acted to pick up the dialing pulses, and to isolate the audio from the
battery (48 VDC, FWIW) and serve as a balanced line, to be more immune
to induced noise.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 02/06/2016 02:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies, it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

AT&T's original Touch Tone telephones had a clever circuit that
allowed a single transistor to oscillate on two frequencies at
once, with both frequencies closely controlled in both frequency
and relative amplitude. Yes, transistors were relatively
expensive back then.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

Electrical motors were silent or near so. They also could be speed
controlled. Most heavy equipment - big stuff are electric with
generators either on board or down the way.

The massive excavators that are digging the soft coal out of the near
surface seam in Central Texas are electric. There are massive cables
that snake across the ground that feed the monster so it can move about.
I think they are AC lines from a powerhouse made for the purpose.

Martin

On 2/6/2016 10:00 AM, Ignoramus14059 wrote:
On 2016-02-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus9436" wrote in message
...
On 2016-02-05, dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 7:57 PM, Ignoramus11775 wrote:
It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

It was used to power a big blower at a coal fired electrical power
station. Then it was rebuilt, then the power station was shut down
by
the EPA. The power station is 96 years old. They have a 96 years
old
bridge crane that is still operational.

The blower at iFly is 1,600 HP, and this is 4,500 HP, almost 3
times bigger.

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/flu...rs-flying.html


Couldn't find a good picture quickly, unfortunately...reactor
primary
coolant pump motors are around 6,0000 HP (Oconee-class, 850 MWe
output)
to approaching 10,000 HP for later 1100-1200 MWe units. There's
enough
"waste" energy imparted from the impeller work that it's how
initial
temperature is raised from ambient to 560 F at 2250 psia prior to
reactor startup. Oconee flow rate is 131.6E6 lbm/hr total or
roughly
65,000 gpm thru each of the four RCPs...

Power plants do tend to be big machines...

I am taking pictures of their place, as I work there.

They have enormous vertical pumps also, impellers about 12 ft in
diameter. Powered by what clearly looks like antique giant
motors. Much bigger than the motor in the photo that I posted.

i

This is an electrically powered US aircraft carrier supplying Tacoma,
Washington during the winter of 1929-30, when a drought crippled their
hydro plant:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020247.jpg
The ship's electric propulsion motors totalled 180,000 HP. Electricity
was used as an automatic transmission connecting the high-speed
turbo-generators to the much slower propellor shafts, before we
learned to make sufficiently large and reliable reduction gearing.

WW2 submarines used electric drive motors about the size of yours.

-jsw



This is amazing. Most locomotives and large mining trucks are still
electrically driven.

i

They work just fine when the power goes out. I have a princess in the
house and two lineman clip on's in the shop.
We have digital (key) phones and rotary phones down at the Fraternal Org
I work at.

Martin

On 2/6/2016 6:24 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:n961vj$blk$1
@dont-email.me:

Transistors enabled many improvements but 1950's rotary dial phones
with no active electronics still work on the system.

I have an old WECO model 500 set I use in my shop for nostalgia that works
perfectly!

Lloyd

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:38:04 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies, it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

It's a good thing you were strung up.

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

On 6 Feb 2016 05:07:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-02-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:57:31 -0600, Ignoramus11775
wrote:

It is sitting on my truck:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/4500-hp-motor.jpg

The image cannot be displayed because it contains errors.

I downloaded it and it displays with xv with no problems.

Make sure that you got the whole file. It is 4.6 MB in size. :-)

Neither of the files for that motor will download here without errors.
It's probably version 2847612.0.3 of Mozilla, though... sigh
Firefox isn't responding right now.

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

"Robert Nichols" wrote
in message ...
On 02/06/2016 02:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

AT&T's original Touch Tone telephones had a clever circuit that
allowed a single transistor to oscillate on two frequencies at
once, with both frequencies closely controlled in both frequency
and relative amplitude. Yes, transistors were relatively
expensive back then.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

Some Army phones had a 4x4 button pattern:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autovon

We were warned not to touch the FO button unless we saw Soviet tanks.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:38:04 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find
a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

It's a good thing you were strung up.

I hadn't practiced a Dulfersitz in decades.

Wednesday the forecast was for 10-20MPH winds, not the howling gale
that blew the TV antenna down. Thursday I replaced the bent mast
section, then Friday the predicted few inches of light snow clung to
the guy lines and pulled it down again, and this time it smacked the
roof HARD right over me.

There are 5 oak insulator blanks sitting on the milling machine to be
completed tomorrow. I made one to replace the first fall's damage,
boiled it in wax to drive out the water and seal it, and didn't lose
any signal strength from it.

On Feb 6, 2016, Jim Wilkins wrote
(in article ):

"Joseph wrote in message
s.com...
On Feb 6, 2016, Jim Wilkins wrote
(in article ):

idwrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim wrote:

I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.
Here is the core circuit of the pre-transistor circuit:

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_hybrid

Joe Gwinn

Instead of the phone circuit it shows the Central Office interface
between a two-wire local subscriber line and 4-wire long distance
lines with amplifiers for each direction.

The hybrid combines or separates the mouth and ear signals so
effectively that a little of the user's voice has to be leaked back
into their ear as "sidetone" to keep them from shouting. It "knows"
the difference between the transmit and receive signals in the single
wire pair. We learned the possibly bad habit of blowing gently and
silently into the microphone to make a sound that only appears in the
speaker.

Yeah, I was focused on the hybrid, which is used at both ends.

Somewhere I have complete circuit for a POTS phone, but a modern unit with
touchtone dial (the original, with pot cores and a germanium transistor). I
recall it came from an old issue of BSTJ.

I have and use a bunch of telephones from that era. After 40 years, the tone
frequencies had drifted a bit, and I had to retune the touchtone pads.


Joe Gwinn


This covers the circuit pretty well.
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/teleinterface.html

The memory aid we learned for the functions a telephone switch must
perform is BORSCHT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BORSCHT

Transistors enabled many improvements but 1950's rotary dial phones
with no active electronics still work on the system.

-jsw

On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 23:21:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:38:04 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find
a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

It's a good thing you were strung up.

I hadn't practiced a Dulfersitz in decades.

Abseiling I knew, after having to look it up last year when my niece
and new nephew went to Gnu Zealand for spelunking and Middle Earthing.
They had a blast. I had to look up Dulfersitz, and it definitely does
not look like something I'd try in anything but an emergency. If you
slipped, you'd likely lose control of the rope and fall.

P.S: Doesn't anyone say "rappelling" any more?


Wednesday the forecast was for 10-20MPH winds, not the howling gale
that blew the TV antenna down. Thursday I replaced the bent mast
section, then Friday the predicted few inches of light snow clung to
the guy lines and pulled it down again, and this time it smacked the
roof HARD right over me.

Time for a new mast system, wot? Better yet, Repent!, and TV no more.
I'm going on 11 years without it now. Netflix and Redbox give me the
movie fixes I need, but I haven't suffered through brainless broadcast
TV or the massively stupid and numerous commercials for over a decade.
The only commercials I actively seek are those for the Stupor Bowl,
and even then, at millions a pop, they put some stupid one on. The
money spent on sports and commercials each year would be enough, in
one single year, to -feed- and -house- the homeless and hungry poor in
America (even those who don't deserve it), and probably a few dozen
other countries. Too bad so few people have this perspective.
(Sorry, it just slipped out.)


There are 5 oak insulator blanks sitting on the milling machine to be
completed tomorrow. I made one to replace the first fall's damage,
boiled it in wax to drive out the water and seal it, and didn't lose
any signal strength from it.

Whuffo? Doesn't good cable preclude the need? Or are you insulating
the mast from something? I don't recall having heard about this. Or
are you the poor sod who was blessed with an overly lightningized
environment? If so, would oak insulators even help? A million volt,
million amp spark which jumps thousands of feet of air in an instant
is pretty hard to protect from, innit? Just sayin...

--
I would be the most content if my children grew up to be the kind of people
who think decorating consists mostly of building enough bookshelves.
-- Anna Quindlen

On 2016-02-07, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Electrical motors were silent or near so. They also could be speed
controlled. Most heavy equipment - big stuff are electric with
generators either on board or down the way.

The massive excavators that are digging the soft coal out of the near
surface seam in Central Texas are electric. There are massive cables
that snake across the ground that feed the monster so it can move about.
I think they are AC lines from a powerhouse made for the purpose.

Yes, this is exactly right.

i

On 02/06/2016 07:41 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

I could tell you (in too much detail) how automated connections
were made by at least one set of equipment -- the "Strowger switch",
invented by a somewhat paranoid undertaker who believed that is
competitor's wife (who was a telephone operator) was directing potential
customers to her husband). That was initially picked up by a company
called "Automatic Electric".

AT&T (Ma Bell) used that system for small-down setups later,
calling them "10x10s" in contrast to the crossbar switches used in the
more complex exchanges.

Mechanically, the switch is an amazing bit of engineering, and
relay logic was my first experience with logic circuits (long before the
ICs which continued the principles), with special relays set up to be
slow to pick up, or slow to release along with the normal speed ones.
The connection to the phone came though a two-coil relay, which both
acted to pick up the dialing pulses, and to isolate the audio from the
battery (48 VDC, FWIW) and serve as a balanced line, to be more immune
to induced noise.

It's the Panel Switch that takes the engineering prize. It's been
called a "Telephone office designed by a mechanical engineer." I
visited one of the last panel offices just before it was taken out
of service. Impressive to watch it in action. Glad I didn't have
to maintain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_switch

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
s.com...
On Feb 6, 2016, Jim Wilkins wrote
(in article ):

"Joseph wrote in message
s.com...
On Feb 6, 2016, Jim Wilkins wrote
(in article ):

idwrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim wrote:

I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity
with
which people overcame limitations of their current
technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone
which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one
very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.
Here is the core circuit of the pre-transistor circuit:

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_hybrid

Joe Gwinn

Instead of the phone circuit it shows the Central Office interface
between a two-wire local subscriber line and 4-wire long distance
lines with amplifiers for each direction.

The hybrid combines or separates the mouth and ear signals so
effectively that a little of the user's voice has to be leaked back
into their ear as "sidetone" to keep them from shouting. It "knows"
the difference between the transmit and receive signals in the
single
wire pair. We learned the possibly bad habit of blowing gently and
silently into the microphone to make a sound that only appears in
the
speaker.

Yeah, I was focused on the hybrid, which is used at both ends.

Somewhere I have complete circuit for a POTS phone, but a modern
unit with
touchtone dial (the original, with pot cores and a germanium
transistor). I
recall it came from an old issue of BSTJ.

I have and use a bunch of telephones from that era. After 40 years,
the tone
frequencies had drifted a bit, and I had to retune the touchtone
pads.


Joe Gwinn

I looked at that page for a while, trying to explain intuitively how a
hybrid transformer can separate the overlapping signals passing in
both directions

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 23:21:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:38:04 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity
with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one
very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find
a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

It's a good thing you were strung up.

I hadn't practiced a Dulfersitz in decades.

Abseiling I knew, after having to look it up last year when my niece
and new nephew went to Gnu Zealand for spelunking and Middle
Earthing.
They had a blast. I had to look up Dulfersitz, and it definitely
does
not look like something I'd try in anything but an emergency. If
you
slipped, you'd likely lose control of the rope and fall.

P.S: Doesn't anyone say "rappelling" any more?

Rappeler is French for recall, as in recalling the doubled rope from
the bottom. Maybe French has lost its cachet of exclusiveness to
German? Have you seen any French competition to Audi, BMW or Mercedes
recently?

Wednesday the forecast was for 10-20MPH winds, not the howling gale
that blew the TV antenna down. Thursday I replaced the bent mast
section, then Friday the predicted few inches of light snow clung to
the guy lines and pulled it down again, and this time it smacked the
roof HARD right over me.

Time for a new mast system, wot? Better yet, Repent!, and TV no
more.
I'm going on 11 years without it now. Netflix and Redbox give me
the
movie fixes I need, but I haven't suffered through brainless
broadcast
TV or the massively stupid and numerous commercials for over a
decade.
The only commercials I actively seek are those for the Stupor Bowl,
and even then, at millions a pop, they put some stupid one on. The
money spent on sports and commercials each year would be enough, in
one single year, to -feed- and -house- the homeless and hungry poor
in
America (even those who don't deserve it), and probably a few dozen
other countries. Too bad so few people have this perspective.
(Sorry, it just slipped out.)

TVs do have an OFF switch, you know, for those of us with the self
control to use it. Mine is mainly my best source of up-to-date local
news and weather. Until I decide how to reengineer the insulators in a
material with different properties I can use Boston weather forecasts,
that antenna wasn't damaged.

I used to tell TV haters that they were missing good material on PBS
but it no longer has much that interests me.

There are 5 oak insulator blanks sitting on the milling machine to
be
completed tomorrow. I made one to replace the first fall's damage,
boiled it in wax to drive out the water and seal it, and didn't lose
any signal strength from it.

Whuffo? Doesn't good cable preclude the need? Or are you
insulating
the mast from something? I don't recall having heard about this.
Or
are you the poor sod who was blessed with an overly lightningized
environment? If so, would oak insulators even help? A million
volt,
million amp spark which jumps thousands of feet of air in an instant
is pretty hard to protect from, innit? Just sayin...

These insulators support the two sections of the dipoles without
letting them short to each other or the metal supporting structure.
The radio waves picked up from the air appear as a tiny voltage
between the inner ends.
http://www.hottconsultants.com/pdf_files/dipoles-1.pdf

-jsw

On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 12:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 23:21:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:38:04 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity
with
which people overcame limitations of their current technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one
very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find
a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

It's a good thing you were strung up.

I hadn't practiced a Dulfersitz in decades.

Abseiling I knew, after having to look it up last year when my niece
and new nephew went to Gnu Zealand for spelunking and Middle
Earthing.
They had a blast. I had to look up Dulfersitz, and it definitely
does
not look like something I'd try in anything but an emergency. If
you
slipped, you'd likely lose control of the rope and fall.

P.S: Doesn't anyone say "rappelling" any more?

Rappeler is French for recall, as in recalling the doubled rope from
the bottom. Maybe French has lost its cachet of exclusiveness to
German? Have you seen any French competition to Audi, BMW or Mercedes
recently?

Wednesday the forecast was for 10-20MPH winds, not the howling gale
that blew the TV antenna down. Thursday I replaced the bent mast
section, then Friday the predicted few inches of light snow clung to
the guy lines and pulled it down again, and this time it smacked the
roof HARD right over me.

Time for a new mast system, wot? Better yet, Repent!, and TV no
more.
I'm going on 11 years without it now. Netflix and Redbox give me
the
movie fixes I need, but I haven't suffered through brainless
broadcast
TV or the massively stupid and numerous commercials for over a
decade.
The only commercials I actively seek are those for the Stupor Bowl,
and even then, at millions a pop, they put some stupid one on. The
money spent on sports and commercials each year would be enough, in
one single year, to -feed- and -house- the homeless and hungry poor
in
America (even those who don't deserve it), and probably a few dozen
other countries. Too bad so few people have this perspective.
(Sorry, it just slipped out.)

TVs do have an OFF switch, you know, for those of us with the self
control to use it. Mine is mainly my best source of up-to-date local
news and weather. Until I decide how to reengineer the insulators in a
material with different properties I can use Boston weather forecasts,
that antenna wasn't damaged.

I used to tell TV haters that they were missing good material on PBS
but it no longer has much that interests me.

There are 5 oak insulator blanks sitting on the milling machine to
be
completed tomorrow. I made one to replace the first fall's damage,
boiled it in wax to drive out the water and seal it, and didn't lose
any signal strength from it.

Whuffo? Doesn't good cable preclude the need? Or are you
insulating
the mast from something? I don't recall having heard about this.
Or
are you the poor sod who was blessed with an overly lightningized
environment? If so, would oak insulators even help? A million
volt,
million amp spark which jumps thousands of feet of air in an instant
is pretty hard to protect from, innit? Just sayin...

These insulators support the two sections of the dipoles without
letting them short to each other or the metal supporting structure.
The radio waves picked up from the air appear as a tiny voltage
between the inner ends.
http://www.hottconsultants.com/pdf_files/dipoles-1.pdf

-jsw


I haven't heard of anyone using wood insulators boiled in paraffin
since I had my first ham radio license, in 1960. You do drag out some
old technology, Jim. g

I'm sure it worked well. In fact, I had a ladder line feeding my first
40m dipole with paraffin-soaked wooden insulators, but that was a gift
from an old ham who was helping me get started. I never measured its
performance but I worked Australia and Norway with 50 W using that
antenna.

Anyway, if you're looking for modern materials that are excellent
insultators, have low dielectric, and stand up to sunlight, you have a
lot to choose from. A QRP fanatic/friend I know, who is a plastics
engineer, uses FEP. I don't know where you get it, but it's supposed
to be good stuff.

My old end-fed wire (which is now down) has ceramic egg insulators,
which I've use for most of the past 50 years.

--
Ed Huntress
KC2NZT

"Robert Nichols" wrote
in message ...
On 02/06/2016 07:41 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one
very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

I could tell you (in too much detail) how automated connections
were made by at least one set of equipment -- the "Strowger
switch",
invented by a somewhat paranoid undertaker who believed that is
competitor's wife (who was a telephone operator) was directing
potential
customers to her husband). That was initially picked up by a
company
called "Automatic Electric".

AT&T (Ma Bell) used that system for small-down setups later,
calling them "10x10s" in contrast to the crossbar switches used in
the
more complex exchanges.

Mechanically, the switch is an amazing bit of engineering, and
relay logic was my first experience with logic circuits (long
before the
ICs which continued the principles), with special relays set up to
be
slow to pick up, or slow to release along with the normal speed
ones.
The connection to the phone came though a two-coil relay, which
both
acted to pick up the dialing pulses, and to isolate the audio from
the
battery (48 VDC, FWIW) and serve as a balanced line, to be more
immune
to induced noise.

It's the Panel Switch that takes the engineering prize. It's been
called a "Telephone office designed by a mechanical engineer." I
visited one of the last panel offices just before it was taken out
of service. Impressive to watch it in action. Glad I didn't have
to maintain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_switch

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

I theoretically had to repair stepping-relay switches that still
existed in some of our more remote Army sites near the Border in
Germany. Luckily the computer-type gear I maintained had dedicated and
usually modem-quality lines, but a phone call made the relays clatter,
and sometimes was routed through Berlin and undoubtedly monitored in
the DDR. The Germans would warn me when that happened.

Communicating with German engineers about line distortion problems
sorely strained my limited technical vocabulary which was oriented
more toward math and chemistry, and buying VW parts. OTOH knowing at
least a little of it may have kept me from Vietnam.

-jsw

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Feb 2016 12:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 23:21:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
m...
On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 15:38:04 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus14059" wrote in
message ...
On 2016-02-06, Jim Wilkins wrote:


I often look at all that stuff, and I find extreme ingenuity
with
which people overcame limitations of their current
technologies,
it
is
fascinating.

i

Tbe one that impresses me most is the old analog telephone which
does
everything over two wires without active electronics, only one
very
clever transformer, speaker and carbon mike. I couldn't quickly
find
a
circuit description and should return to fixing my fallen TV
antenna
that had me abseiling down the snow-covered roof.

It's a good thing you were strung up.

I hadn't practiced a Dulfersitz in decades.

Abseiling I knew, after having to look it up last year when my
niece
and new nephew went to Gnu Zealand for spelunking and Middle
Earthing.
They had a blast. I had to look up Dulfersitz, and it definitely
does
not look like something I'd try in anything but an emergency. If
you
slipped, you'd likely lose control of the rope and fall.

P.S: Doesn't anyone say "rappelling" any more?

Rappeler is French for recall, as in recalling the doubled rope from
the bottom. Maybe French has lost its cachet of exclusiveness to
German? Have you seen any French competition to Audi, BMW or
Mercedes
recently?

Wednesday the forecast was for 10-20MPH winds, not the howling
gale
that blew the TV antenna down. Thursday I replaced the bent mast
section, then Friday the predicted few inches of light snow clung
to
the guy lines and pulled it down again, and this time it smacked
the
roof HARD right over me.

Time for a new mast system, wot? Better yet, Repent!, and TV no
more.
I'm going on 11 years without it now. Netflix and Redbox give me
the
movie fixes I need, but I haven't suffered through brainless
broadcast
TV or the massively stupid and numerous commercials for over a
decade.
The only commercials I actively seek are those for the Stupor
Bowl,
and even then, at millions a pop, they put some stupid one on.
The
money spent on sports and commercials each year would be enough,
in
one single year, to -feed- and -house- the homeless and hungry
poor
in
America (even those who don't deserve it), and probably a few
dozen
other countries. Too bad so few people have this perspective.
(Sorry, it just slipped out.)

TVs do have an OFF switch, you know, for those of us with the self
control to use it. Mine is mainly my best source of up-to-date local
news and weather. Until I decide how to reengineer the insulators in
a
material with different properties I can use Boston weather
forecasts,
that antenna wasn't damaged.

I used to tell TV haters that they were missing good material on PBS
but it no longer has much that interests me.

There are 5 oak insulator blanks sitting on the milling machine to
be
completed tomorrow. I made one to replace the first fall's damage,
boiled it in wax to drive out the water and seal it, and didn't
lose
any signal strength from it.

Whuffo? Doesn't good cable preclude the need? Or are you
insulating
the mast from something? I don't recall having heard about this.
Or
are you the poor sod who was blessed with an overly lightningized
environment? If so, would oak insulators even help? A million
volt,
million amp spark which jumps thousands of feet of air in an
instant
is pretty hard to protect from, innit? Just sayin...

These insulators support the two sections of the dipoles without
letting them short to each other or the metal supporting structure.
The radio waves picked up from the air appear as a tiny voltage
between the inner ends.
http://www.hottconsultants.com/pdf_files/dipoles-1.pdf

-jsw


I haven't heard of anyone using wood insulators boiled in paraffin
since I had my first ham radio license, in 1960. You do drag out
some
old technology, Jim. g

I'm sure it worked well. In fact, I had a ladder line feeding my
first
40m dipole with paraffin-soaked wooden insulators, but that was a
gift
from an old ham who was helping me get started. I never measured its
performance but I worked Australia and Norway with 50 W using that
antenna.

Anyway, if you're looking for modern materials that are excellent
insultators, have low dielectric, and stand up to sunlight, you have
a
lot to choose from. A QRP fanatic/friend I know, who is a plastics
engineer, uses FEP. I don't know where you get it, but it's supposed
to be good stuff.

My old end-fed wire (which is now down) has ceramic egg insulators,
which I've use for most of the past 50 years.

--
Ed Huntress
KC2NZT

The two local station I use that antenna for are near 200 MHz, and I
haven't found loss tangent data on thoroughly dried wood above 50 MHz.
Immersing wood in 280F molten wax certainly forces a lot of water out
the end grain, and seals the wood to keep it out. I made a waxed
pulley from scrap casket mahogany that lasted unchanged outdoors for
many years until a glue joint failed.

Ned Simmons sent me some cutoff ends of 1" Teflon rod to try. I
couldn't copy the existing insulators while they were 50' up in the
air, but now I can experiment with either machining the rod or
compressing it into a hot mold. It doesn't matter if the cycle time is
4 hours per part or if I have to weigh out the quantity of plastic
that will just fill the mold.

-jsw