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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
Got a FitBit Charge last month, to track how much I walk in a day
(averaging around 10k steps/day, far cry from working in my garage days!) Anyway, the band latches with two parallel metal bars that lock into slots in the other end. It's super easy to undo this while working on machinery, I've done it several times. First time, while down in a mucky pit lubing bearings. Luckily it landed on the one small crusty patch in the corner, else I'd likely never have found it. Didn't even realize it had come off until some time later, that's how easily it comes apart. Made a C-clip out of strapping tape, worked great but rusts from sweat. Bent up some SS TIG rod into a sort of clip, works but not as well as the strapping tape version. I could whittle out some tooling at work in my spare time, if I had any. But I don't and work responsibilities are growing almost by the day. So just putting this out there for anyone so inclined to service a niche need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! Jon |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
... Got a FitBit Charge last month, to track how much I walk in a day (averaging around 10k steps/day, far cry from working in my garage days!) Anyway, the band latches with two parallel metal bars that lock into slots in the other end. It's super easy to undo this while working on machinery, I've done it several times. First time, while down in a mucky pit lubing bearings. Luckily it landed on the one small crusty patch in the corner, else I'd likely never have found it. Didn't even realize it had come off until some time later, that's how easily it comes apart. Made a C-clip out of strapping tape, worked great but rusts from sweat. Bent up some SS TIG rod into a sort of clip, works but not as well as the strapping tape version. I could whittle out some tooling at work in my spare time, if I had any. But I don't and work responsibilities are growing almost by the day. So just putting this out there for anyone so inclined to service a niche need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! Jon My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. -jsw |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Jon Anderson" wrote in message ... Got a FitBit Charge last month, to track how much I walk in a day (averaging around 10k steps/day, far cry from working in my garage days!) Anyway, the band latches with two parallel metal bars that lock into slots in the other end. It's super easy to undo this while working on machinery, I've done it several times. First time, while down in a mucky pit lubing bearings. Luckily it landed on the one small crusty patch in the corner, else I'd likely never have found it. Didn't even realize it had come off until some time later, that's how easily it comes apart. Made a C-clip out of strapping tape, worked great but rusts from sweat. Bent up some SS TIG rod into a sort of clip, works but not as well as the strapping tape version. I could whittle out some tooling at work in my spare time, if I had any. But I don't and work responsibilities are growing almost by the day. So just putting this out there for anyone so inclined to service a niche need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. Velcro letting loose might be audible in a mfg enviro. I heard that a Scotsman invented Velcro so he could hear his wallet scream when it was opened. -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#4
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 18/03/2015 11:04 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: I heard that a Scotsman invented Velcro so he could hear his wallet scream when it was opened. Now that is very good ,I've never heard that one before. Kev |
#5
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:02:18 +0930, Bluey69
wrote: On 18/03/2015 11:04 PM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: I heard that a Scotsman invented Velcro so he could hear his wallet scream when it was opened. Now that is very good ,I've never heard that one before. Kev My Irish friend tells me that copper wire was invented when a couple Scots were both trying to keep hold of a penny. Eric |
#6
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 19-Mar-15 7:32 AM, Bluey69 wrote:
On 18/03/2015 11:04 PM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: I heard that a Scotsman invented Velcro so he could hear his wallet scream when it was opened. Now that is very good ,I've never heard that one before. Kev Me neither, I heard it was invented so the Kiwi's could tell when the grip on the sheep was loosening. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/19/2015 12:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. Velcro letting loose might be audible in a mfg enviro. You fellows haven't worked in a rendering plant, have ya? Almost up to my elbows today in sheep guts, hocks, and heads dealing with an infeed belt issue on the hogger (which turns said items into goo and little bits) Velcro would quickly capture bits of this stuff. Bad enough I have to work with that crap, but I have enough problem trying to leave the aroma at work without hauling around little tiny bits of it. And believe me, it doesn't take much. I washed my hands twice at work and I can still smell it as I type. And noise? How about a 100hp motor driving that hogger as it pulverizes cattle heads. Not to mention everything else in there that makes a racket. Anyway... The band is simply slipped up over the area where the locking bits are, preventing them from being pulled out of the slots. This is not an issue of something pulling the end of the strap. Slide which ever hand you wear a watch on, over the edge of something like the edge of a table. All you have to do is catch the side of the strap, and it peels out far easier than you might think. Appreciate the suggestions, don't get me wrong. But have a simple solution, just no time/means to make one right now. Jon |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:44:55 +1100, Jon Anderson
All you have to do is catch the side of the strap, and it peels out far easier than you might think. Appreciate the suggestions, don't get me wrong. But have a simple solution, just no time/means to make one right now. Try wrapping a rubber band around the strap ( several times to make a tight fit ) - it is non-slip and will lock the end of the strap in place. I use onerto stop my watch strap flopping around. Alan |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
... On 3/19/2015 12:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. Velcro letting loose might be audible in a mfg enviro. You fellows haven't worked in a rendering plant, have ya? Almost up to my elbows today in sheep guts, hocks, and heads dealing with an infeed belt issue on the hogger (which turns said items into goo and little bits) Velcro would quickly capture bits of this stuff. Bad enough I have to work with that crap, but I have enough problem trying to leave the aroma at work without hauling around little tiny bits of it. And believe me, it doesn't take much. I washed my hands twice at work and I can still smell it as I type. And noise? How about a 100hp motor driving that hogger as it pulverizes cattle heads. Not to mention everything else in there that makes a racket. Anyway... The band is simply slipped up over the area where the locking bits are, preventing them from being pulled out of the slots. This is not an issue of something pulling the end of the strap. Slide which ever hand you wear a watch on, over the edge of something like the edge of a table. All you have to do is catch the side of the strap, and it peels out far easier than you might think. Appreciate the suggestions, don't get me wrong. But have a simple solution, just no time/means to make one right now. Jon I was taught to not wear -anything- that could snag and pull you in or conduct electricity or be lost where it could do damage when working on machinery or electronics. -jsw |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:44:55 +1100, Jon Anderson
wrote: On 3/19/2015 12:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. Velcro letting loose might be audible in a mfg enviro. You fellows haven't worked in a rendering plant, have ya? Wull, I did say "might". Your work enviro isn't up to CAL-OSHA standards, is it? Ah dinna thin so. Almost up to my elbows today in sheep guts, hocks, and heads dealing with an infeed belt issue on the hogger (which turns said items into goo and little bits) Velcro would quickly capture bits of this stuff. Bad enough I have to work with that crap, but I have enough problem trying to leave the aroma at work without hauling around little tiny bits of it. And believe me, it doesn't take much. I washed my hands twice at work and I can still smell it as I type. And noise? How about a 100hp motor driving that hogger as it pulverizes cattle heads. Not to mention everything else in there that makes a racket. Anyway... The band is simply slipped up over the area where the locking bits are, preventing them from being pulled out of the slots. This is not an issue of something pulling the end of the strap. Slide which ever hand you wear a watch on, over the edge of something like the edge of a table. All you have to do is catch the side of the strap, and it peels out far easier than you might think. Appreciate the suggestions, don't get me wrong. But have a simple solution, just no time/means to make one right now. Jon, why aren't you wearing a watch-on-a-string necklace by now? -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:35:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Jon Anderson" wrote in message ... On 3/19/2015 12:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. Velcro letting loose might be audible in a mfg enviro. You fellows haven't worked in a rendering plant, have ya? Almost up to my elbows today in sheep guts, hocks, and heads dealing with an infeed belt issue on the hogger (which turns said items into goo and little bits) Velcro would quickly capture bits of this stuff. Bad enough I have to work with that crap, but I have enough problem trying to leave the aroma at work without hauling around little tiny bits of it. And believe me, it doesn't take much. I washed my hands twice at work and I can still smell it as I type. And noise? How about a 100hp motor driving that hogger as it pulverizes cattle heads. Not to mention everything else in there that makes a racket. Anyway... The band is simply slipped up over the area where the locking bits are, preventing them from being pulled out of the slots. This is not an issue of something pulling the end of the strap. Slide which ever hand you wear a watch on, over the edge of something like the edge of a table. All you have to do is catch the side of the strap, and it peels out far easier than you might think. Appreciate the suggestions, don't get me wrong. But have a simple solution, just no time/means to make one right now. Jon I was taught to not wear -anything- that could snag and pull you in or conduct electricity or be lost where it could do damage when working on machinery or electronics. Ditto, in both 8th Grade Woodshop and Metalshops. -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:05:36 +1100, Jon Anderson
wrote: Got a FitBit Charge last month, to track how much I walk in a day (averaging around 10k steps/day, far cry from working in my garage days!) Anyway, the band latches with two parallel metal bars that lock into slots in the other end. It's super easy to undo this while working on machinery, I've done it several times. First time, while down in a mucky pit lubing bearings. Luckily it landed on the one small crusty patch in the corner, else I'd likely never have found it. Didn't even realize it had come off until some time later, that's how easily it comes apart. Made a C-clip out of strapping tape, worked great but rusts from sweat. Bent up some SS TIG rod into a sort of clip, works but not as well as the strapping tape version. I could whittle out some tooling at work in my spare time, if I had any. But I don't and work responsibilities are growing almost by the day. So just putting this out there for anyone so inclined to service a niche need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! Jon https://www.google.com/search?q=don+...utf-8&oe=utf-8 "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 19/03/2015 3:14 PM, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 3/19/2015 12:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:22:16 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: My usual fix for a weak latch is Velcro. Velcro letting loose might be audible in a mfg enviro. You fellows haven't worked in a rendering plant, have ya? Almost up to my elbows today in sheep guts, hocks, and heads dealing with an infeed belt issue on the hogger (which turns said items into goo and little bits) Velcro would quickly capture bits of this stuff. Bad enough I have to work with that crap, but I have enough problem trying to leave the aroma at work without hauling around little tiny bits of it. And believe me, it doesn't take much. I washed my hands twice at work and I can still smell it as I type. And noise? How about a 100hp motor driving that hogger as it pulverizes cattle heads. Not to mention everything else in there that makes a racket. Anyway... The band is simply slipped up over the area where the locking bits are, preventing them from being pulled out of the slots. This is not an issue of something pulling the end of the strap. Slide which ever hand you wear a watch on, over the edge of something like the edge of a table. All you have to do is catch the side of the strap, and it peels out far easier than you might think. Appreciate the suggestions, don't get me wrong. But have a simple solution, just no time/means to make one right now. Jon I have many years ago , at Metro Meats abbatoir at Nourlunga in Sth Australia , they had close down for three weeks over the Christmas break to carry out all the maintenance and repairs . they processed cattle ,sheep ,pigs and poultry they had a tallow plant and a fertilizer plant . The next time I work in a place like that will be way too soon. Coming home on the bus I usually had the back half to myself ,I had a very bad odour about me. I would walk from the plant to the pub ,buy two long necks of Coopers Ale and drink that on the bus on the way home. I wouldnt try it today though . |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:28:31 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:05:36 +1100, Jon Anderson wrote: need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! Jon https://www.google.com/search?q=don+...utf-8&oe=utf-8 How is the FitBit supposed to work though that, mon? "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:23:57 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:28:31 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:05:36 +1100, Jon Anderson wrote: need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! Jon https://www.google.com/search?q=don+...utf-8&oe=utf-8 How is the FitBit supposed to work though that, mon? Thru that? Your arm goes thru that. You attach the fitbit to it. Pop rivits perhaps? "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:17:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:23:57 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:28:31 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:05:36 +1100, Jon Anderson wrote: need. I can't be the only one using a FitBit in a work environment. If anyone comes up with one, just be sure and let me know so I can buy a couple! Jon https://www.google.com/search?q=don+...utf-8&oe=utf-8 How is the FitBit supposed to work though that, mon? Thru that? Your arm goes thru that. You attach the fitbit to it. Pop rivits perhaps? I've never even seen a FitBit and never hope to, but I thought it was checking blood pressure and heart rate like some of its predecessors. After googling it last night, I'm better informed. It appears that it's just a very, very expensive pedometer. shakes head It'll work fine popriveted to that spring band, but it'll still get goo stuck in between so he can appreciate it later, away from work. -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/19/2015 10:35 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I was taught to not wear -anything- that could snag and pull you in or conduct electricity or be lost where it could do damage when working on machinery or electronics. -jsw I don't work with electricity, and machinery is powered down and locked out when being worked on. Part of why I got this is, when paired with my iPhone, it buzzes when I receive a call. I often miss calls when in the rendering plant. Jon |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/20/2015 4:19 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Wull, I did say "might". Your work enviro isn't up to CAL-OSHA standards, is it? Ah dinna thin so. No, it certainly isn't, but this is changing rapidly. New corporate owners are very safety conscious. I just completed 3 days of Work Health Safety training, and am the maintenance rep to the safety committee. All of us are set on improving plant safety. I also had two fellows from Master Lock come out, tour the plant, and review our lockout procedures and equipment, and ordering a fair bit of kit to better deal with locking out anything being serviced. In some respects, I'd say things here are tougher. If Work Safety came through and saw me grinding without safety glasses, it's an on the spot $6k fine for me personally, $30k for the company. Tickets are required for forklifts, working at heights, working in confined spaces, etc etc. We're no longer a locally owned small town abattoir, there are many new programs being rolled out at once. It's good to see! Jon |
#19
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/21/2015 3:28 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
https://www.google.com/search?q=don+...utf-8&oe=utf-8 Nice for a watch, but useless for a FitBit... Jon |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/21/2015 1:20 PM, Bluey69 wrote:
they had close down for three weeks over the Christmas break to carry out all the maintenance and repairs New maintenance manager developed his own preventative program that resulted in an average of 5 minutes/day unscheduled down time at his last job. We've got a LONG way to go, but it's great learning the system. Coming home on the bus I usually had the back half to myself ,I had a very bad odour about me. I can relate. When I go to sell my car, probably have to sell it to someone that works in an abattoir... lol Jon |
#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/21/2015 7:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Thru that? Your arm goes thru that. You attach the fitbit to it. Pop rivits perhaps? That would be a kludge, and fairly expensive. I have a fix designed, it would be cheap, easy, and works great. Just don't have means to make tooling. Hell, might just see about getting some whipped up in China... (just kidding) Jon |
#22
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:03:48 +1100, Jon Anderson
wrote: On 3/21/2015 3:28 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=don+...utf-8&oe=utf-8 Nice for a watch, but useless for a FitBit... Jon Isnt the Fitbit a watch type item? Cut off the band and pop rivet it to the Don Juan. "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke |
#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/22/2015 8:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Isnt the Fitbit a watch type item? Cut off the band and pop rivet it to the Don Juan. Didn't post asking for ideas. Once again, I have a very simple idea that works. I would like to have one nicely made. Nobody seems interested, so maybe I'll just buy some silver sheet on ebay and figure out a way to bend them myself. I have half a dozen other people interested, so figured there was a minor market if anyone was interested in a little garage mfg. Jon |
#24
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:09 +1100, Jon Anderson
wrote: On 3/21/2015 7:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: Thru that? Your arm goes thru that. You attach the fitbit to it. Pop rivits perhaps? That would be a kludge, and fairly expensive. I have a fix designed, it would be cheap, easy, and works great. Just don't have means to make tooling. Hell, might just see about getting some whipped up in China... (just kidding) Don't kid. A new, heavy-duty band might be the niche market to make your million on. Whoda thunk pet rocks or Tickle-Me-Elmos would go viral like they did? -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#25
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:00:58 +1100, Jon Anderson
wrote: On 3/20/2015 4:19 PM, Larry Jaques wrote: Wull, I did say "might". Your work enviro isn't up to CAL-OSHA standards, is it? Ah dinna thin so. No, it certainly isn't, but this is changing rapidly. New corporate owners are very safety conscious. I just completed 3 days of Work Health Safety training, and am the maintenance rep to the safety committee. All of us are set on improving plant safety. I also had two fellows from Master Lock come out, tour the plant, and review our lockout procedures and equipment, and ordering a fair bit of kit to better deal with locking out anything being serviced. Excellent. I'll bet there's nothing worse than being in a large machine like that when it's accidentally turned on. That's the stuff of nightmares. In some respects, I'd say things here are tougher. If Work Safety came through and saw me grinding without safety glasses, it's an on the spot $6k fine for me personally, $30k for the company. Tickets are required Dayum, that's pricy! for forklifts, working at heights, working in confined spaces, etc etc. We're no longer a locally owned small town abattoir, there are many new programs being rolled out at once. It's good to see! Good! Best not get caught, or you'll lose your toolroom shipment money. -- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln |
#26
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 9:56:24 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:09 +1100, Jon Anderson wrote: On 3/21/2015 7:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: Thru that? Your arm goes thru that. You attach the fitbit to it. Pop rivits perhaps? That would be a kludge, and fairly expensive. I have a fix designed, it would be cheap, easy, and works great. Just don't have means to make tooling. Hell, might just see about getting some whipped up in China... (just kidding) Don't kid. A new, heavy-duty band might be the niche market to make your million on. Whoda thunk pet rocks or Tickle-Me-Elmos would go viral like they did? And Bush-Era interest in Furbees or Furbys and Tickle-Me-Elmos skyrocketed when the CIA or the NSA was caught sending memos out about banning them. |
#27
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Idea for niche product, if anyone is so inclined
On 3/23/2015 1:01 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Excellent. I'll bet there's nothing worse than being in a large machine like that when it's accidentally turned on. That's the stuff of nightmares. The hogger is the real scary one. It would grind up a person in seconds. The disconnect box does not allow for lockout directly, the Master Lock guys are looking into that to see if they can find something suitable. If not, the box will have to be modified to allow locking out or be replaced. Jon |
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