I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800, Rex wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that
one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or
threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also use
5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners
until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

These probably won't pan out, but:

Amazon bought out Small Parts, and still has some of the good stuff.

Also try:

http://microfasteners.com/

http://rtlfasteners.com/

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

Are you sure that is a M3-.7 ? I ask as my tap charts list only a
M3-.5 thread.
(But perhaps my thread chart is not complete)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

I can get A2 304 stainless M3X6 or M3X8 with DIN85 pan heads part #
421-137 or 421-042 from Spae Naur in Kitchener Ontario. Call
1-800-265-8772 for their order desk.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?


https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...lama-33364.htm


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw...
The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Odd; 1940s would usually be post-standardization, and the
M3 x 0.7 thread is an oddball. Could it be M3.5 x 0.6? Or M4 x 0.7?
There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...

It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:48:04 -0800, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw...
The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also use
5-36 US.

Odd; 1940s would usually be post-standardization, and the M3 x 0.7
thread is an oddball. Could it be M3.5 x 0.6? Or M4 x 0.7?
There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...

It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out
yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others that
might want to do restorations.

5-40 is the thread size of the prop screw on Cox 049 engines. I have a
bag of them for that reason.

It's also popular with railroad modelers, because it's nominal diameter is
1/8", and so perfect if you're doing a 1/8 scale model of a locomotive
with 1" bolts.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On 01/14/2015 5:23 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:48:04 -0800, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
....

....

There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...
....

5-40 is the thread size of the prop screw on Cox 049 engines. I have a
bag of them for that reason.

It's also popular with railroad modelers, because it's nominal diameter is
1/8", and so perfect if you're doing a 1/8 scale model of a locomotive
with 1" bolts.

Also as base mounting stud on multiple varieties of small,
high-frequency (50 kHz resonance) accelerometers...

--

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:48:04 -0800, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw...
The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can
also use
5-36 US.

Odd; 1940s would usually be post-standardization, and the M3 x 0.7
thread is an oddball. Could it be M3.5 x 0.6? Or M4 x 0.7?
There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...

It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out
yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others
that
might want to do restorations.

5-40 is the thread size of the prop screw on Cox 049 engines. I
have a
bag of them for that reason.

It's also popular with railroad modelers, because it's nominal
diameter is
1/8", and so perfect if you're doing a 1/8 scale model of a
locomotive
with 1" bolts.

--

Tim Wescott

#5 screws will temporarily assemble sheet metal panels prior to
riveting, if you don't have Clecos.
-jsw

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 7:26:48 PM UTC-6, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800, Rex wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that
one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or
threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also use
5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners
until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

These probably won't pan out, but:

Amazon bought out Small Parts, and still has some of the good stuff.

Also try:

http://microfasteners.com/

http://rtlfasteners.com/

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Tim, I will try those, thanks

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 9:10:45 PM UTC-6, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

Are you sure that is a M3-.7 ? I ask as my tap charts list only a
M3-.5 thread.
(But perhaps my thread chart is not complete)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John, I have checked and double-checked with a Bausch & Lomb measuring loup. It sure does look like .7, or .75. definitely not .5.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 9:53:24 PM UTC-6, Clare wrote:

I can get A2 304 stainless M3X6 or M3X8 with DIN85 pan heads part #
421-137 or 421-042 from Spae Naur in Kitchener Ontario. Call
1-800-265-8772 for their order desk.

Clare, I did not see those sizes anywhere on the various thread charts I have.
I'd buy a few just to try them.
I wonder if they have an order minimum?

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 10:18:56 PM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?


https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...lama-33364.htm

Numrich only shows triple-K magazines online. Maybe I should call them.

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw...
The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Odd; 1940s would usually be post-standardization, and the
M3 x 0.7 thread is an oddball. Could it be M3.5 x 0.6? Or M4 x 0.7?
There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...

It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make some extras.

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 5:24:00 PM UTC-6, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:48:04 -0800, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw...
The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also use
5-36 US.

Odd; 1940s would usually be post-standardization, and the M3 x 0.7
thread is an oddball. Could it be M3.5 x 0.6? Or M4 x 0.7?
There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...

It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out
yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others that
might want to do restorations.

5-40 is the thread size of the prop screw on Cox 049 engines. I have a
bag of them for that reason.

It's also popular with railroad modelers, because it's nominal diameter is
1/8", and so perfect if you're doing a 1/8 scale model of a locomotive
with 1" bolts.

--

Tim Wescott

there's a model railroading shop on the way to Mom's house, maybe I'll run by there. Good suggestion, thanks

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:44:35 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 9:53:24 PM UTC-6, Clare wrote:

I can get A2 304 stainless M3X6 or M3X8 with DIN85 pan heads part #
421-137 or 421-042 from Spae Naur in Kitchener Ontario. Call
1-800-265-8772 for their order desk.

Clare, I did not see those sizes anywhere on the various thread charts I have.
I'd buy a few just to try them.
I wonder if they have an order minimum?
Not when I walk in to the customer desk and pay cash..
Missed the pitch though, they are .5

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:41:46 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 9:10:45 PM UTC-6, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

Are you sure that is a M3-.7 ? I ask as my tap charts list only a
M3-.5 thread.
(But perhaps my thread chart is not complete)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John, I have checked and double-checked with a Bausch & Lomb measuring loup. It sure does look like .7, or .75. definitely not .5.
5-40 is standard coarse thread. 5-44 is standard fine thread 5-44
x5/8 is available in binder head - ms-289 3/4" in fillister head is
ms-1144 No fine threads listed as available
5-40 1 inch round heads ms-270

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:41:46 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 9:10:45 PM UTC-6, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?

Are you sure that is a M3-.7 ? I ask as my tap charts list only a
M3-.5 thread.
(But perhaps my thread chart is not complete)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John, I have checked and double-checked with a Bausch & Lomb measuring loup. It sure does look like .7, or .75. definitely not .5.

If I was appearing to argue I wasn't. My question was due to me not
finding a M3-.7 on any of my thread charts. Although I'm sure that my
charts do not include every thread that was ever cut :-)

But a metric thread gauge would tell the story. I resisted buying one
until I tapped M5 - .8 hole for a M5-.5 screw :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:47:42 -0800, Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 5:24:00 PM UTC-6, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:48:04 -0800, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 5:06:06 PM UTC-8, Rex wrote:
I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw...
The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also
use 5-36 US.

Odd; 1940s would usually be post-standardization, and the M3 x 0.7
thread is an oddball. Could it be M3.5 x 0.6? Or M4 x 0.7?
There's also 5-40, but I've only ever seen that in lefthand...

It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out
yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others
that might want to do restorations.

5-40 is the thread size of the prop screw on Cox 049 engines. I have a
bag of them for that reason.

It's also popular with railroad modelers, because it's nominal diameter
is 1/8", and so perfect if you're doing a 1/8 scale model of a
locomotive with 1" bolts.

--

Tim Wescott

there's a model railroading shop on the way to Mom's house, maybe I'll
run by there. Good suggestion, thanks

Let us know how it pans out. 1/8 scale model train enthusiasts aren't
going to have many brick-and-mortar shops catering to them: that's the
scale where you go to some special park and find guys riding the tender
behind the engine, with a track gauge that's a bit over six inches.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but I'm working that with Wolff

If it measures M3 x 0.7mm, the 5-40 thread, at M3.175 x 0.635mm is the
closest. You ought to at least buy a few and try that size...

On 1/15/2015 8:43 PM, Rex wrote:


The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but I'm working that with Wolff

When I have a slotted gun screw with a burr in the slot, I put the screw
in an aluminum jaw vise, then use a narrow flat face punch and a small
brass hammer to tap the metal back into place. This gives a stronger and
better looking slot. A touch of cold blue and its good to go.

David

"whit3rd" wrote in message
...

If it measures M3 x 0.7mm, the 5-40 thread, at M3.175 x 0.635mm is
the
closest. You ought to at least buy a few and try that size...

Taps make pretty good thread gauges for both holes and screws. They
don't need to be good or expensive to clean up old tapped holes.

Does the thread match that of an M4 x 0.7 screw when you hold both
together in front of a light?
-jsw

"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but
I'm working that with Wolff

Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

"Rex" wrote in message
...
...
Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will
not find a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman

Could the grip screw hole on the least valuable pistol be bumped up to
M4 x 0.7?

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:02:02 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:

snip
Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA
/snip

Any one know their rationale for doing so?


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message news
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:02:02 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:

snip
Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will
not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA
/snip

Any one know their rationale for doing so?


--
Unka' George

Before 1947 several countries had their own metric standards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ystem_of_Units

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/loewenherz-thread.html

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/french-thread.html

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/thury-thread.html
"The flank angle is 47.5°."

The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.
-jsw

On 16/01/15 15:59, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:02:02 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:

snip
Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA
/snip

Any one know their rationale for doing so?


It might be they had the tooling to make them and so used it. IIRC it
was MG with the XPAG engine that had French metric threaded bolts but
with Whitworth head sizes as a result of using machine tools moved from
the French Hotchkiss machine gun factory to England due to the war.

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 5:27:50 AM UTC-6, David R. Birch wrote:

When I have a slotted gun screw with a burr in the slot, I put the screw
in an aluminum jaw vise, then use a narrow flat face punch and a small
brass hammer to tap the metal back into place. This gives a stronger and
better looking slot. A touch of cold blue and its good to go.

David

Hey, I like that. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it.

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but
I'm working that with Wolff

Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman

Yessir, I had that discussion twice yesterday when the hobby shops directed me to Ace Hardware.

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but
I'm working that with Wolff

Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman

Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see.

Thanks

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:12:02 AM UTC-6, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Could the grip screw hole on the least valuable pistol be bumped up to
M4 x 0.7?

Sure would not want to do that. That's a 33% increase in diameter. On a couple, the grips screw goes through a flat spring. I would not want to enlarge that hole.

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:59:12 AM UTC-6, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:02:02 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:

snip
Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA
/snip

Any one know their rationale for doing so?

My Google-ing led me to a couple of forum entries on "M3-.7".
One said it was probably English BS-4 size, which is a very close match. Those are still available in the UK, for obscure restorations.
The other (and mentioned here) said the Basque were isolated people who did things their way, to their own standards.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message news
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:02:02 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:

snip
Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will
not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA
/snip

Any one know their rationale for doing so?


--
Unka' George

Before 1947 several countries had their own metric standards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ystem_of_Units

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/loewenherz-thread.html

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/french-thread.html

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/thury-thread.html
"The flank angle is 47.5°."

And I thought I had it bad growing up with the 3 different standards.
Whitworth was the oddball, metric should have been embraced years
sooner by Americans, and most SAE/USS would be gone by now.

As for plumbing, is that a 15/16-27 aerator or a 55/64-27? sigh


The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.

One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum
housings, too.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I
have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely
make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp
the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but
I'm working that with Wolff

Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not
find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman

Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the
III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see.

Thanks

I also saw some guy selling stainless ones on ebay
They looked like cheap cheeseheads, but I think it was $9 for a set of four.

Paul K. Dickman

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.

One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum
housings, too.

I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I
bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine
that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are
for dry threads.

Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.
-jsw

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.

One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum
housings, too.

I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I
bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine
that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are
for dry threads.

Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.

Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine
to act like a dirt magnet?

I bought a tube of aluminum anti-seize back in the '80s to install
spark plugs into aluminum V-6 and V-8 heads. Since then, I've used it
sparingly and infrequently, so that same tube is still my supply. It
sure works well on everything I've used it. I'm glad, because I
absolutely hate galling of s/s on s/s hardware and stripping aluminum
threads/ruining high-dollar parts.

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years
later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.

Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the
engine
to act like a dirt magnet?

It can be wiped off flat surfaces.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 06:19:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.

One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum
housings, too.

I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I
bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine
that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are
for dry threads.

Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.

Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine
to act like a dirt magnet?

I bought a tube of aluminum anti-seize back in the '80s to install
spark plugs into aluminum V-6 and V-8 heads. Since then, I've used it
sparingly and infrequently, so that same tube is still my supply. It
sure works well on everything I've used it. I'm glad, because I
absolutely hate galling of s/s on s/s hardware and stripping aluminum
threads/ruining high-dollar parts.

For stainless fasteners in aluminum in marine service, I started using
a Loctite brand zinc antiseize. Expensive, but we'll see next time I
have to remove a fastener. Surely better than all the drilling out,
etc. to remove broken off ss in aluminum. When I rebuilt the
trim-tilt on my outboard, over half the ss bolts broke off, even with
several weeks of intermittent heat/penetrant treatment. Which is why
boat shops only replace the entire unit for several boat bucks.

Pete Keillor