Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:00:41 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 06:19:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.

One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum
housings, too.

I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I
bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine
that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are
for dry threads.

Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.


Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine
to act like a dirt magnet?

I bought a tube of aluminum anti-seize back in the '80s to install
spark plugs into aluminum V-6 and V-8 heads. Since then, I've used it
sparingly and infrequently, so that same tube is still my supply. It
sure works well on everything I've used it. I'm glad, because I
absolutely hate galling of s/s on s/s hardware and stripping aluminum
threads/ruining high-dollar parts.


For stainless fasteners in aluminum in marine service, I started using
a Loctite brand zinc antiseize. Expensive, but we'll see next time I
have to remove a fastener. Surely better than all the drilling out,
etc. to remove broken off ss in aluminum. When I rebuilt the
trim-tilt on my outboard, over half the ss bolts broke off, even with
several weeks of intermittent heat/penetrant treatment. Which is why
boat shops only replace the entire unit for several boat bucks.

Pete Keillor


This is only of historical interest, but back in the '60s I bought two
cans of *lead* based anti-seize, on the recommendation of the tech
guys at Rodi Marine in Ft. Lauderdale (who mainained several of the
Miami - Nassau powerboat racers) to use with zinc-plated and stainless
bolts in "white metal" and aluminum castings. It was for my dad's
Boston Whaler.

Anyway, I used it, on the boat and on the Evinrude outboard that we
kept in the water, and it worked great. I used it for years afterward
on my sports cars, as an all-purpose anti-seize, where it also worked
great.

I still have almost a full can left, and I've been told that it's no
longer available, like a lot of other lead-powder products. I don't
know if that's true of not.

Does anyone else have experience with lead anti-seize?

--
Ed Huntress
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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:10:44 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
I still have almost a full can left, and I've been told that it's no
longer available, like a lot of other lead-powder products. I don't
know if that's true of not.

Does anyone else have experience with lead anti-seize?


No experience, but looks like you can still get some:

http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/No60.html

a few others:

http://www.armitelabs.com/products/L...ze_Thread.html

http://www.superior-industries.com/_...oduct_233.html

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:55:33 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:10:44 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
I still have almost a full can left, and I've been told that it's no
longer available, like a lot of other lead-powder products. I don't
know if that's true of not.

Does anyone else have experience with lead anti-seize?


No experience, but looks like you can still get some:

http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/No60.html

a few others:

http://www.armitelabs.com/products/L...ze_Thread.html

http://www.superior-industries.com/_...oduct_233.html


Iteresting. I suppose the people who thought it wasn't available were
just knee-jerking about the removal of lead is some other products.

I'm suprised, then, that it isn't used more widely. It was great for
really difficult things like exhaust-manifod bolts and so on.

I haven't wrenched an exhaust manifold for close to 20 years, so I'm
speaking from historical experience only. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress
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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:45:29 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 10:18:56 PM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?



https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...lama-33364.htm


Numrich only shows triple-K magazines online. Maybe I should call them.


I would indeed call them. Stuff often comes in and doesnt get
listed..for months and years.

There is a chain of specialty hardware stores here in So Cal called
McFadden-Dale hardware that I always hit first for specialty
screws/bolts etc. Asles and asles floor to ceiling of nuts, bolts and
fasteners of all types. Ive even gotten some of those those pesky tiny
assed camera screws in there.

http://mcfadden-dale.doitbest.com/home.aspx

If you send me an email with the size you need..Ill hit em next week
and see what they have



Put Hey Gunner-Screws on the subject line



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:15:33 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but
I'm working that with Wolff


Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman


Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see.

Thanks


Same line I supplied you. Sometimes Gunparts can be a bit...iffy. No
idea if its their code, phases of the moon, cycles of the Worm or
what...

Shrug.

If you call them or email them..they may be able to give you some idea
of what the sizes are..

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke


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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:15:33 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I
have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely
make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp
the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring,
but
I'm working that with Wolff

Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not
find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman


Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the
III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see.

Thanks


Same line I supplied you. Sometimes Gunparts can be a bit...iffy. No
idea if its their code, phases of the moon, cycles of the Worm or
what...

Shrug.

If you call them or email them..they may be able to give you some idea
of what the sizes are..

Gunner


No, I searched for screws and refined for Llama.
Yours went to all Llama products.
If you click on the exploded diagrams they take you to the small parts. If
you just click on the model number they send you to a short list that seems
to only be grips and magazines.

Paul K. Dickman


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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:16:06 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:15:33 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Rex wrote:

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote:
snip
It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn
them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part.

Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to
others that might want to do restorations.

That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I
have
to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely
make
some extras.

Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important
safety wise...

I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you
could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp
the
screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat
away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use
stainless filler rod?

Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they
have tried anything like this or not...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be
dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise
complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring,
but
I'm working that with Wolff

Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not
find
a box at the ace hdw.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman

Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the
III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see.

Thanks


Same line I supplied you. Sometimes Gunparts can be a bit...iffy. No
idea if its their code, phases of the moon, cycles of the Worm or
what...

Shrug.

If you call them or email them..they may be able to give you some idea
of what the sizes are..

Gunner


No, I searched for screws and refined for Llama.
Yours went to all Llama products.
If you click on the exploded diagrams they take you to the small parts. If
you just click on the model number they send you to a short list that seems
to only be grips and magazines.

Paul K. Dickman

Well of course..you have to search inside the brand. Geeze


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:28:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years
later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.


Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the
engine
to act like a dirt magnet?


It can be wiped off flat surfaces.


Which: the goop, the dirt, or both?

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice
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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:00:41 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 06:19:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped
threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine
threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's
why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between
and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles.

One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum
housings, too.

I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I
bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine
that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are
for dry threads.

Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it
would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally
they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later,
but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove.


Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine
to act like a dirt magnet?

I bought a tube of aluminum anti-seize back in the '80s to install
spark plugs into aluminum V-6 and V-8 heads. Since then, I've used it
sparingly and infrequently, so that same tube is still my supply. It
sure works well on everything I've used it. I'm glad, because I
absolutely hate galling of s/s on s/s hardware and stripping aluminum
threads/ruining high-dollar parts.


For stainless fasteners in aluminum in marine service, I started using
a Loctite brand zinc antiseize. Expensive, but we'll see next time I
have to remove a fastener. Surely better than all the drilling out,
etc. to remove broken off ss in aluminum. When I rebuilt the
trim-tilt on my outboard, over half the ss bolts broke off, even with
several weeks of intermittent heat/penetrant treatment. Which is why
boat shops only replace the entire unit for several boat bucks.

Pete Keillor


Have been there and done that. The usual recommendation for SS bolts
and an Aluminum fixture is an insulation paste of some sort. I've used
a multitude of different things - I've even used 3M 5200 :-) but the
main purpose is to prevent corrosion as aluminum and stainless are far
apart on an Anodic Index Chart. 18% chromium stainless is about 0.5
while aluminum is about 0.95. Zinc, by the way is about 1.2. The
highest and lowest I see on my chart is gold at 0.0 and beryllium at
1.85.

--
Cheers,

John B.
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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message
...

Have been there and done that. The usual recommendation for SS bolts
and an Aluminum fixture is an insulation paste of some sort. I've
used
a multitude of different things - I've even used 3M 5200 :-) but the
main purpose is to prevent corrosion as aluminum and stainless are
far
apart on an Anodic Index Chart. 18% chromium stainless is about 0.5
while aluminum is about 0.95. Zinc, by the way is about 1.2. The
highest and lowest I see on my chart is gold at 0.0 and beryllium at
1.85.

--
Cheers,

John B.


The home-made hardware on my antennas is made from aluminum, brass and
stainless, for example aluminum side plates and pulley sheave on a
brass pivot shaft with a stainless screw through the center, greased
with LubriMatic marine wheel bearing grease #11400.

They show essentially no corrosion and little wear in over a decade of
exposure to rain water and a little wood smoke. I spray LPS-3 on the
outside when the antenna is down for repairs, perhaps once a year, but
it dries too thick for pulley bearings.

Metal close to the ground and exposed to oak leaf acids isn't so
fortunate.

-jsw




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Default Need some itty bitty machine screws

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:19:44 PM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA

Paul K. Dickman


Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the
III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see.

Thanks


I also saw some guy selling stainless ones on ebay
They looked like cheap cheeseheads, but I think it was $9 for a set of four.

Paul K. Dickman


Paul, I contacted that ebay seller to ask if he knew the thread. He responded with "What kind of gun is it for?". I told him and he said he has no grip screws for those.
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On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 10:18:56 PM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote:

I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama.
It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one.
I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both.

The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long
I think I can also use 5-36 US.

Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth.
If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter.
Need to be slotted pan heads

I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal.
I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw.

Any suggestions on where I can source those?



https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...lama-33364.htm


I got the Numrich screws. They don't fit. Too fine.
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