On Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:54:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
To feel good about oneself would involve running with some childish herd, and to keep coming out with sweet little lies.



Your best bet is to say what you actually know.



You have to stop and explain everything to people in here like you are a kid, amdx.



I bet you still haven't cracked an NEC manual yet either, have you.

"Your best bet is to say what you actually know."

Speaking in general terms only, I believe this sums up a major problem for many who participate in this newsgroup.

"Ignoramus12347" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr2s10$1rr$2@dont-
email.me:

I have a feeling that iggy is doing just fine for himself.

It pretty much seems that way to anyone who isn't jealous of him.

He usually forges ahead, but when he butts up against something
unfamiliar, he asks.

What's different about that from the way any competent tradesman works?

"Just try anything and if it doesn't work we'll try something else" is a
pretty expensive mantra (at the very least in man-hours, on a low-margin
task), especially with all the varied experiences on tap on the web.

Sometimes I hire 'experts' to solve materials handling issues (powders
and dusts, not metal). Usually, it's worth the money.

Pretending to be super intelligent, or super knowledgeable about
anything, is not something that interests me personally. I have some
things that I need done, like how to get copper out of a special
transformer, and when I feel that I need to ask, I ask.

If this makes me look bad in the eyes of "machining luminaries" like jon
banquer and "precision machinist", so be it.

There are people out there who build their entire life around
pretending to be something, and I try not to be one of them.

i

In other words, you're not pretending to be stupid.

Ignoramus12347 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, now, if this transformed was heated in an oven to burn off the
varnish, then it would all separate, right?

Not really. If they are interleaved, every lam would be fastened to the
next by a layer of carbonized varnish. The whole purpose of vacuum
varnishing is to ensure that it penetrates every gap (even between the
laminations) of every part.

Partly, it's for the insulation qualities of the varnish, and partly for
mechanical integrity. After vacuum-potting, they bake out the whole unit
until the varnish cures. They generally use a varnish known generically
as "Hi-solids", although there is (was, anyway) a commercial product
called "Hi-sol" varnish specifically for the purpose.

I'm pretty sure, when a scrap yard wishes to "pull apart" a transformer,
they end up cutting something -- either the coils (easy) or the core (not
so), unless they're gapped-core units. You can easily tell. Just look
at one end of the "I" pieces. If they're ALL together in a single stack,
and all the "E" pieces are together in a single stack, then it comes
apart easily. If not, you cut.

It's really not as big a task as you're making it out to be. You can cut
the coils out of those in an hour. You could have cut them and had them
out in the time it's taken to ask these questions.


Lloyd

On 7/27/2014 1:54 PM, wrote:
To feel good about oneself would involve running with some childish herd, and to keep coming out with sweet little lies.

Your best bet is to say what you actually know.

You have to stop and explain everything to people in here like you are a kid, amdx.

I bet you still haven't cracked an NEC manual yet either, have you.


I only corrected a false statement. It just happens that you made the
statement. It was really a stupidly false statement and your ego
wouldn't let just say, oh, I learned something. You kept referring to
your bible (the NEC manual), but then when ask, to show the line that
made you think your statement was correct, you couldn't present it.
I'm sorry your still sore, and hope there were enough other posters
telling how wrong you were that you have a new understanding.
If you did a review of my posts, you would see when I'm wrong, I say
I'm sorry I got that wrong.
No I haven't cracked the NEC manual, but if I didn't understand
something, I certainly would.
Mikek




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amdx fired this volley in news:lr3lb2$o0j$1@dont-
email.me:

No I haven't cracked the NEC manual, but if I didn't understand
something, I certainly would.

I used to know someone who pretended to be a hospital chief electrician.
He WAS an electrician, no doubt about that -- knew all the mechanicals,
and most of the rules; and he was the 'boss'. So... I guess he was the
hospital's 'chief' electrician, in title.

But when asked about a particular method that was suspect, he'd _always_
chirp, "It's in the NEC!", and tell you to mind your own business.

Many times, he was wrong (not merely wrong, but patently unsafe), and his
one-and-only copy of the full set had gathered dust so long anyone who
came into his office could tell they'd never been opened. He couldn't
cite much of anything, except that 110V outlets had to be Orange, in "his
books".

And that was someone who actually had an active subscription to the NEC.
We know that's not the case with the arguer here.

'Still waiting for any cite from any authority that says high voltage
from line service is safer than lower voltage. We ain't talkin' about
Tesla Coils, here.

LLoyd

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:58:19 AM UTC-7, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:02:55 -0500, Ignoramus12347

wrote:



On 2014-07-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

amdx fired this volley in news:lr2s10$1rr$2@dont-

email.me:



I have a feeling that iggy is doing just fine for himself.



It pretty much seems that way to anyone who isn't jealous of him.



He usually forges ahead, but when he butts up against something

unfamiliar, he asks.



What's different about that from the way any competent tradesman works?



"Just try anything and if it doesn't work we'll try something else" is a

pretty expensive mantra (at the very least in man-hours, on a low-margin

task), especially with all the varied experiences on tap on the web.



Sometimes I hire 'experts' to solve materials handling issues (powders

and dusts, not metal). Usually, it's worth the money.



Pretending to be super intelligent, or super knowledgeable about

anything, is not something that interests me personally. I have some

things that I need done, like how to get copper out of a special

transformer, and when I feel that I need to ask, I ask.



Good move.





If this makes me look bad in the eyes of "machining luminaries" like jon

banquer and "precision machinist", so be it.



bwa ha ha ha ha ha In their dreams.



--

Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right

to be wrong, because then you will lose the ability to

learn new things and move forward with your life.

-- Dr. David M. Burns

Larry Jackass is a failed automotive mechanic who got out of the business.

Larry Jackass is so dumb he confused Rochester fuel injection with a Rochester carburetor.

Larry Jackass doesn't like Holly carburetors because he isn't willing to take the time to understand them. Instead he just gave up.

Has anyone looked at this fools LinkedIn profile? What a ****ing joke. Check this out:

"College majors would have included electrical and mechanical engineering had I gone to college, but I wanted to get straight to tech school and into work out of high school. I've always had an affinity for machines (and they for me) and how things work. I recently researched CNC machining am just now getting a computer controlled router into operation (Dec 2013) for artistic and signmaking endeavors. Building and fabrication are in my blood. Stay tuned for more exciting episodes in the multi-faceted life Larry lives.

Specialties: Working with mind, body, and soul in tune with one another. Custom work is my favorite occupation and I thrive on solving all sorts of problems for people. What can I do for you?"

The Larry Jackass work history is even worse. Auto mechanic my ass. Larry Jackass worked at an autobody shop doing alignments and as an "electrician". That's it. He then got out of the business according to his pathetic LinkedIn profile.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 06:18:24 -0500
Ignoramus12347 wrote:

snip
I am open to great ideas, if someone knows how I can use my press to
separate the transformer, I would be delighted. The press is genuinely
double acting and can be used for pulling -- bt the pulling force is a
lot less than the pushing force.

Copper is sticky/gummy stuff to cut with a saw. Miners used to use
chisels to cut float copper into pieces small enough to handle. I would
try an air hammer (like they use for muffler removal) with a reasonably
sharp bit in it (shrug).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 7/27/2014 3:05 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr3lb2$o0j$1@dont-
email.me:

No I haven't cracked the NEC manual, but if I didn't understand
something, I certainly would.

I used to know someone who pretended to be a hospital chief electrician.
He WAS an electrician, no doubt about that -- knew all the mechanicals,
and most of the rules; and he was the 'boss'. So... I guess he was the
hospital's 'chief' electrician, in title.

But when asked about a particular method that was suspect, he'd _always_
chirp, "It's in the NEC!", and tell you to mind your own business.

Many times, he was wrong (not merely wrong, but patently unsafe), and his
one-and-only copy of the full set had gathered dust so long anyone who
came into his office could tell they'd never been opened. He couldn't
cite much of anything, except that 110V outlets had to be Orange, in "his
books".

And that was someone who actually had an active subscription to the NEC.
We know that's not the case with the arguer here.

'Still waiting for any cite from any authority that says high voltage
from line service is safer than lower voltage. We ain't talkin' about
Tesla Coils, here.

LLoyd

The reason Tesla coils are safer is the frequency, not necessarily
safe, but you can conduct an arc from the coil to one hand and off the
other hand and not get hurt. I wouldn't want to do it though.
Mikek

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wrote:

... authority that says high voltage is safer than ...

Senile lloyd wants to know how high voltage is safer than low. Anyway, you apparently you never took the hospital electrician's advice of referring you to the NEC manual.

A taser is 50,000 volts. Thats high. The amperage there isn't a factor. A stun gun is 900,000 volts. That outta tell you right there that voltage isn't what harms. It's low voltage with higher amps that is harmful.

Talk to a physicist or a doctor your own damn lazy self if you want to know what of two voltages fits your satisfaction of what's safer.

On 7/26/2014 2:04 PM, Ignoramus14156 wrote:
I have a couple of water cooled low voltage high current transformers
like these:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...726_131901.jpg

They are not the usual kind and have very heavy copper bars and pipes
for windings and cooling.

I want to know how I can delaminate them in an environmentally
conscious fashion. Thanks

i

Iggy, I'm not sure you need to de-laminate the iron to remove the
copper. if you just cut through the windings flush with iron on both
sides, then you can use your press to push out the center section.
This video shows what I mean, from about 2 minutes to 2:45. I can't tell
exactly how your transformers are built but I suspect similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md3HyohxCk
But wait, this one is a little better,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjF5Hj2Udg
See 1 minute 48 seconds to 2 minute 20 seconds.
I don't see any reason to disassemble the iron laminations.
Mikek







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amdx fired this volley in news:lr3nki$9s6$1@dont-
email.me:

The reason Tesla coils are safer is the frequency, not necessarily
safe, but you can conduct an arc from the coil to one hand and off the
other hand and not get hurt. I wouldn't want to do it though.
Mikek

Yes, I know, Mike. I was making the point that power company service is
NOT a 'special circumstance' like a Tesla coil.

Lloyd

amdx fired this volley in news:lr3puf$pi3$1@dont-
email.me:

Iggy, I'm not sure you need to de-laminate the iron to remove the
copper. if you just cut through the windings flush with iron on both
sides, then you can use your press to push out the center section.
This video shows what I mean, from about 2 minutes to 2:45. I can't
tell
exactly how your transformers are built but I suspect similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md3HyohxCk
But wait, this one is a little better,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjF5Hj2Udg
See 1 minute 48 seconds to 2 minute 20 seconds.
I don't see any reason to disassemble the iron laminations.

I keep telling him that, Mike. I've disassembled several dozens of those
in my life. Again, not to be scrapped, but to be re-built.

There was a time when labor was cheaper than materials.

Lloyd

On 7/27/2014 4:25 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr3puf$pi3$1@dont-
email.me:

Iggy, I'm not sure you need to de-laminate the iron to remove the
copper. if you just cut through the windings flush with iron on both
sides, then you can use your press to push out the center section.
This video shows what I mean, from about 2 minutes to 2:45. I can't
tell
exactly how your transformers are built but I suspect similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md3HyohxCk
But wait, this one is a little better,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjF5Hj2Udg
See 1 minute 48 seconds to 2 minute 20 seconds.
I don't see any reason to disassemble the iron laminations.

I keep telling him that, Mike. I've disassembled several dozens of those
in my life. Again, not to be scrapped, but to be re-built.

There was a time when labor was cheaper than materials.

Lloyd

And here is a better video showing chopping and knocking out the windings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al45MXMp7e0
Mikek



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On 7/27/2014 4:22 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr3nki$9s6$1@dont-
email.me:

The reason Tesla coils are safer is the frequency, not necessarily
safe, but you can conduct an arc from the coil to one hand and off the
other hand and not get hurt. I wouldn't want to do it though.
Mikek

Yes, I know, Mike. I was making the point that power company service is
NOT a 'special circumstance' like a Tesla coil.

Lloyd

Yep.

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On 7/27/2014 3:50 PM, wrote:

wrote:

... authority that says high voltage is safer than ...

Senile lloyd wants to know how high voltage is safer than low. Anyway, you apparently you never took the hospital electrician's

advice of referring you to the NEC manual.

A taser is 50,000 volts. Thats high. The amperage there isn't a factor. A stun gun is 900,000 volts.

outta tell you right there that voltage isn't what harms. It's low
voltage with higher amps that is harmful.

Talk to a physicist or a doctor your own damn lazy self if you want to know what of two voltages fits your satisfaction of what's safer.


I'm rather disappointed that I have not been able to educate you about
how this all works. I think if you could just get a good understanding
of ohms law, you would see immediately were you are mistaken.
When I got into this thread I was trying help you understand and prevent
others from getting incorrect information.


I would hate to confuse you with terms that aren't in your NEC
manual, like output impedance and current limited or short pulses or the
fact that a stun gun has electrodes that are about 2 inches apart, so
the current has little chance to go to the heart.
Here is a page that suggests stun guns are limited to 3 ma or 4 ma and
most are limited to 1 ma to 2 milliamps.
Police tasers use darts which actually pierce the skin that reduce the
resistance of the circuit through the body so the voltage does not need
to be as high to deliver the same current as if it was on the outside of
the skin.

How do you reconcile the fact that a car battery can deliver 600 amps
but you can hold on to the terminals and survive?

Answer: It's because the voltage is low, and will not cause a current
large enough to cause harm. If you raise it to say 40 or 50 volts you
might be able to start to feel it tingle. If the voltage gets much
higher, you are going to want to get loose. The bottom line is the
current is dependent on the resistance between your skin and the
electrode you touch and the voltage.

These sentences might help.
The amount of current depends on the voltage and the resistance of the
circuit.
If the voltage is higher with a constant resistance more current will flow.
With a constant voltage, the current is dependent on the resistance,
with a lower resistance more current will flow, with a higher resistance
a lower current will flow.

Mikek





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On 7/27/2014 3:24 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:58:19 AM UTC-7, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:02:55 -0500, Ignoramus12347

wrote:



On 2014-07-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:


Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right

to be wrong, because then you will lose the ability to

learn new things and move forward with your life.

-- Dr. David M. Burns
an "electrician". That's it. He then got out of the business according
to his pathetic LinkedIn profile.


Hey jon, Are you the jon banquer with knowledge in CadCam?
Mikek


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amdx fired this volley in news:lr3vji$sc0$1@dont-
email.me:


Hey jon, Are you the jon banquer with knowledge in CadCam?

No, Mike, not "knowledge"... "Industry Expert". Just ask him! snicker

Lloyd

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 3:48:16 PM UTC-7, amdx wrote:
On 7/27/2014 3:24 PM, jon_banquer wrote:

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:58:19 AM UTC-7, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:02:55 -0500, Ignoramus12347



wrote:







On 2014-07-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:





Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right



to be wrong, because then you will lose the ability to



learn new things and move forward with your life.



-- Dr. David M. Burns

an "electrician". That's it. He then got out of the business according

to his pathetic LinkedIn profile.





Hey jon, Are you the jon banquer with knowledge in CadCam?

Mikek





---

This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

http://www.avast.com


Intelligent CADCAM discussion doesn't happen on Usenet. Try a good independent LinkedIn group that's well moderated.

amdx wrote:
On 7/27/2014 3:50 PM, wrote:

wrote:

... authority that says high voltage is safer than ...

Senile lloyd wants to know how high voltage is safer than low.
Anyway, you apparently you never took the hospital electrician's

advice of referring you to the NEC manual.

A taser is 50,000 volts. Thats high. The amperage there isn't a
factor. A stun gun is 900,000 volts.

outta tell you right there that voltage isn't what harms. It's low
voltage with higher amps that is harmful.

Talk to a physicist or a doctor your own damn lazy self if you want
to know what of two voltages fits your satisfaction of what's safer.

I'm rather disappointed that I have not been able to educate you
about how this all works. I think if you could just get a good
understanding
of ohms law, you would see immediately were you are mistaken.
When I got into this thread I was trying help you understand and
prevent others from getting incorrect information.


I would hate to confuse you with terms that aren't in your NEC
manual, like output impedance and current limited or short pulses or
the fact that a stun gun has electrodes that are about 2 inches apart, so
the current has little chance to go to the heart.
Here is a page that suggests stun guns are limited to 3 ma or 4 ma and
most are limited to 1 ma to 2 milliamps.
Police tasers use darts which actually pierce the skin that reduce
the resistance of the circuit through the body so the voltage does not
need to be as high to deliver the same current as if it was on the outside
of the skin.

How do you reconcile the fact that a car battery can deliver 600 amps
but you can hold on to the terminals and survive?

Answer: It's because the voltage is low, and will not cause a current
large enough to cause harm. If you raise it to say 40 or 50 volts you
might be able to start to feel it tingle. If the voltage gets much
higher, you are going to want to get loose. The bottom line is the
current is dependent on the resistance between your skin and the
electrode you touch and the voltage.

These sentences might help.
The amount of current depends on the voltage and the resistance of the
circuit.
If the voltage is higher with a constant resistance more current will
flow. With a constant voltage, the current is dependent on the resistance,
with a lower resistance more current will flow, with a higher
resistance a lower current will flow.

Mikek

Yer ****in' upwind Mike , Jonboi because mogulah is jonbanqueer already
knows everything . And physics and the laws of nature be damned , you're
wrong . Because he says so .

--
Snag

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 4:27:29 PM UTC-7, Terry Coombs wrote:
amdx wrote:

On 7/27/2014 3:50 PM, wrote:



wrote:



... authority that says high voltage is safer than ...



Senile lloyd wants to know how high voltage is safer than low.

Anyway, you apparently you never took the hospital electrician's



advice of referring you to the NEC manual.



A taser is 50,000 volts. Thats high. The amperage there isn't a

factor. A stun gun is 900,000 volts.



outta tell you right there that voltage isn't what harms. It's low

voltage with higher amps that is harmful.



Talk to a physicist or a doctor your own damn lazy self if you want

to know what of two voltages fits your satisfaction of what's safer.



I'm rather disappointed that I have not been able to educate you

about how this all works. I think if you could just get a good

understanding

of ohms law, you would see immediately were you are mistaken.

When I got into this thread I was trying help you understand and

prevent others from getting incorrect information.





I would hate to confuse you with terms that aren't in your NEC

manual, like output impedance and current limited or short pulses or

the fact that a stun gun has electrodes that are about 2 inches apart, so

the current has little chance to go to the heart.

Here is a page that suggests stun guns are limited to 3 ma or 4 ma and

most are limited to 1 ma to 2 milliamps.

Police tasers use darts which actually pierce the skin that reduce

the resistance of the circuit through the body so the voltage does not

need to be as high to deliver the same current as if it was on the outside

of the skin.



How do you reconcile the fact that a car battery can deliver 600 amps

but you can hold on to the terminals and survive?



Answer: It's because the voltage is low, and will not cause a current

large enough to cause harm. If you raise it to say 40 or 50 volts you

might be able to start to feel it tingle. If the voltage gets much

higher, you are going to want to get loose. The bottom line is the

current is dependent on the resistance between your skin and the

electrode you touch and the voltage.



These sentences might help.

The amount of current depends on the voltage and the resistance of the

circuit.

If the voltage is higher with a constant resistance more current will

flow. With a constant voltage, the current is dependent on the resistance,

with a lower resistance more current will flow, with a higher

resistance a lower current will flow.



Mikek



Yer ****in' upwind Mike , Jonboi because mogulah is jonbanqueer already

knows everything . And physics and the laws of nature be damned , you're

wrong . Because he says so .



--

Snag


Thanks once again to Terry Coombs for showing just how incredibly stupid Mark Wieber's clique of idiots are.

Predictability can be a wonderful thing. :)

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 07:16:23 -0500, Ignoramus12347
wrote:

On 2014-07-26, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14156 fired this volley in
:

I want to know how I can delaminate them in an environmentally
conscious fashion. Thanks

I'm not sure what you mean by "delaminate". What advantage - for scrap
value - would de-laminating the laminations have?

If you want to just salvage the copper separate from the iron cores, do
what we did when we were rebuilding them at Florida Transformer Corp...
just saw off the coils flush with both sides of the core, and pull out
the copper in the openings. Hammer out whatever is fixed into the
openings by varnish.

It's a big job to rebuild one by hand (especially considering the floor
space it requires, since you must hand-pull the new coils through,
instead of bobbin-winding them), but it's only a few minutes work to
extract the old copper from the core.

OK, how do you saw it on a transformer so big.

i

There's no method I know of that will effectively dissolve the vacuum-
potted varnish out from in-between the lams.

Angle grinder with an abrasive metal cutting blade works quite
nicely.

Shrug


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:26:20 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

amdx fired this volley in news:lr2s10$1rr$2@dont-
email.me:

I have a feeling that iggy is doing just fine for himself.

It pretty much seems that way to anyone who isn't jealous of him.

He usually forges ahead, but when he butts up against something
unfamiliar, he asks.

What's different about that from the way any competent tradesman works?

"Just try anything and if it doesn't work we'll try something else" is a
pretty expensive mantra (at the very least in man-hours, on a low-margin
task), especially with all the varied experiences on tap on the web.

Sometimes I hire 'experts' to solve materials handling issues (powders
and dusts, not metal). Usually, it's worth the money.

Lloyd

Very well said.


Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:26:20 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:



amdx fired this volley in news:lr2s10$1rr$2@dont-

email.me:



I have a feeling that iggy is doing just fine for himself.



It pretty much seems that way to anyone who isn't jealous of him.



He usually forges ahead, but when he butts up against something

unfamiliar, he asks.



What's different about that from the way any competent tradesman works?



"Just try anything and if it doesn't work we'll try something else" is a

pretty expensive mantra (at the very least in man-hours, on a low-margin

task), especially with all the varied experiences on tap on the web.



Sometimes I hire 'experts' to solve materials handling issues (powders

and dusts, not metal). Usually, it's worth the money.



Lloyd



Very well said.





Gunner



--

"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.

We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

It's not well said.

It's just another Mark Wieber clique of idiot member showing support to another member.

Cliques suck and they're for the weak.

wrote in message
...

wrote:

... authority that says high voltage is safer than ...

Senile lloyd wants to know how high voltage is safer than low.
Anyway, you apparently you never took the hospital electrician's
advice of referring you to the NEC manual.

A taser is 50,000 volts. Thats high. The amperage there isn't a
factor. A stun gun is 900,000 volts. That outta tell you right there
that voltage isn't what harms. It's low voltage with higher amps
that is harmful.

Talk to a physicist or a doctor your own damn lazy self if you want
to know what of two voltages fits your satisfaction of what's safer.

In case someone out there is naive enough to believe anything
morongulah posts, those examples can be used around people because
they have an OUTPUT IMPEDANCE high enough to limit the current to
below the fatal level. The high voltage itself is NOT the reason, if
it were lightning strikes wouldn't kill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Output_impedance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike

Unlike a power transformer they can't by design put out much current.
The HF yellow bug swatter for example charges the screen up to 700V
but the inverter in mine can deliver only 7 milliAmps continuously
into a short circuit such as an ammeter.

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:lr44uf$ns8
:

Unlike a power transformer they can't by design put out much current.
The HF yellow bug swatter for example charges the screen up to 700V
but the inverter in mine can deliver only 7 milliAmps continuously
into a short circuit such as an ammeter.

Heh! What's NOT fatal to a human ain't necessarily not fatal to a
friggin' mud dauber! I keep one of those near the front door, which
always seems to attract wasps. Whenever someone comes or goes through
that door in the summer, there's about a 20% chance a wasp will come in.

The HF Swatter gits 'em every time.

Except, I have to say, if you ONLY shock a wasp with one, it seldom kills
them; at least not right away. They seem to be able to recover from
enormous damage -- even arcs.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:lr44uf$ns8
:

Unlike a power transformer they can't by design put out much
current.
The HF yellow bug swatter for example charges the screen up to
700V
but the inverter in mine can deliver only 7 milliAmps continuously
into a short circuit such as an ammeter.

Heh! What's NOT fatal to a human ain't necessarily not fatal to a
friggin' mud dauber! I keep one of those near the front door, which
always seems to attract wasps. Whenever someone comes or goes
through
that door in the summer, there's about a 20% chance a wasp will come
in.

The HF Swatter gits 'em every time.

Except, I have to say, if you ONLY shock a wasp with one, it seldom
kills
them; at least not right away. They seem to be able to recover from
enormous damage -- even arcs.

Lloyd

They seem to have some capacitance to provide a brief higher-current
ZAP. When a neighbor saw mine he laughed and told me that a buddy was
showing off at camp with one and swatted himself on the bare hairy
chest, knocking himself flat.

On 2014-07-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr3puf$pi3$1@dont-
email.me:

Iggy, I'm not sure you need to de-laminate the iron to remove the
copper. if you just cut through the windings flush with iron on both
sides, then you can use your press to push out the center section.
This video shows what I mean, from about 2 minutes to 2:45. I can't
tell
exactly how your transformers are built but I suspect similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md3HyohxCk
But wait, this one is a little better,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjF5Hj2Udg
See 1 minute 48 seconds to 2 minute 20 seconds.
I don't see any reason to disassemble the iron laminations.

I keep telling him that, Mike. I've disassembled several dozens of those
in my life. Again, not to be scrapped, but to be re-built.

There was a time when labor was cheaper than materials.

Lloyd

The two transformers I have are

1) Big
2) There is no gap between windings and the iron core.

It is hard to get a sawzall blade in to get some travel of the blade
when cutting. Here's a more detailed picture of the 3 phase
transformer.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g...726_131909.jpg

i

On 2014-07-28, Ignoramus12347 wrote:
On 2014-07-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr3puf$pi3$1@dont-
email.me:

Iggy, I'm not sure you need to de-laminate the iron to remove the
copper. if you just cut through the windings flush with iron on both
sides, then you can use your press to push out the center section.
This video shows what I mean, from about 2 minutes to 2:45. I can't
tell
exactly how your transformers are built but I suspect similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md3HyohxCk
But wait, this one is a little better,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjF5Hj2Udg
See 1 minute 48 seconds to 2 minute 20 seconds.
I don't see any reason to disassemble the iron laminations.

I keep telling him that, Mike. I've disassembled several dozens of those
in my life. Again, not to be scrapped, but to be re-built.

There was a time when labor was cheaper than materials.

Lloyd

The two transformers I have are

1) Big
2) There is no gap between windings and the iron core.

It is hard to get a sawzall blade in to get some travel of the blade
when cutting. Here's a more detailed picture of the 3 phase
transformer.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g...726_131909.jpg

i

The copper bars you see sticking out, are 2 inch wide.

i

Ignoramus12347 fired this volley in
news
2) There is no gap between windings and the iron core.

No, Ig... there should be no gap between the windings and the core.

A "gapped" core is where the "I" piece and the "E" pieces are separate,
rather than interleaved. Sometimes, they're even spaced apart a bit
('gapped') to lower the DC saturability of the core.

You saw the windings off flush to the SIDES of the core. You'll end up
with two fairly flat u-shaped pieces, and a chunk stuck in each opening
in the core.

You saw flush to the sides, Ig. Basically face-off the sides of the
core, and you'll have a whole core, and winding chunks left.

Lloyd

Ignoramus12347 fired this volley in
news
The copper bars you see sticking out, are 2 inch wide.

You didn't show me anything in those pictures that I didn't already
surmise from the first one you showed us.

You're just not getting it. You don't need to insert the saw blade
'between' anything. Just cut off the parts of the coils that are
sticking out past the iron of the core. You might even get away with
only doing one side.

Use an axe, if that's what you have; circular saw; sawzall; copper-hungry
rats... anything that will cut off the exposed parts of the coils.

Lloyd

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:26:20 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

amdx fired this volley in news:lr2s10$1rr$2@dont-
email.me:

I have a feeling that iggy is doing just fine for himself.

It pretty much seems that way to anyone who isn't jealous of him.

He usually forges ahead, but when he butts up against something
unfamiliar, he asks.

What's different about that from the way any competent tradesman works?

"Just try anything and if it doesn't work we'll try something else" is a
pretty expensive mantra (at the very least in man-hours, on a low-margin
task), especially with all the varied experiences on tap on the web.

Sometimes I hire 'experts' to solve materials handling issues (powders
and dusts, not metal). Usually, it's worth the money.

Lloyd

Way back when I was an apprentice boy I realized that while the "Old
Sweats", when they got a drawing, would sometimes wander around the
shop talking with their mates, "What do you think of this one?" and
after a bunch of discussion they'd get a piece of stock and make the
damned thing. The young lads were embarrassed to ask and sometimes
spent a day or so whittling away at something and then having to throw
the half done project in the junk pile because it couldn't be finishes
- no way to hold it in the machine.

I decided that I'd do the same as the old guys and discovered that
one can be amazingly smart when one accesses the minds of five or six
other guys :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/27/2014 5:53 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:lr3vji$sc0$1@dont-
email.me:


Hey jon, Are you the jon banquer with knowledge in CadCam?

No, Mike, not "knowledge"... "Industry Expert". Just ask him! snicker

Lloyd


So the pdf titled "The Truth about Jon Banquer-Part II" is about the
jon the poster on this group?
And where is part one?

jon is that about you?
Mikek

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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On Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:42:33 PM UTC-7, amdx wrote:
On 7/27/2014 5:53 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

amdx fired this volley in news:lr3vji$sc0$1@dont-

email.me:





Hey jon, Are you the jon banquer with knowledge in CadCam?



No, Mike, not "knowledge"... "Industry Expert". Just ask him! snicker



Lloyd





So the pdf titled "The Truth about Jon Banquer-Part II" is about the

jon the poster on this group?

And where is part one?



jon is that about you?

Mikek



---

This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

http://www.avast.com

Yes it's about me. I'm very happy it exists because it has badly hurt the person who created. The funny part is he's too dumb to realize why.

On 7/27/2014 8:23 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Ignoramus12347 fired this volley in
news
2) There is no gap between windings and the iron core.

No, Ig... there should be no gap between the windings and the core.

A "gapped" core is where the "I" piece and the "E" pieces are separate,
rather than interleaved. Sometimes, they're even spaced apart a bit
('gapped') to lower the DC saturability of the core.

You saw the windings off flush to the SIDES of the core. You'll end up
with two fairly flat u-shaped pieces, and a chunk stuck in each opening
in the core.

You saw flush to the sides, Ig. Basically face-off the sides of the
core, and you'll have a whole core, and winding chunks left.

Lloyd



Lloyd is right, just cut the copper flush with the front.
The videos I posted show it pretty clear.
I would use the method shown and only cut one side.
That will save the labor to cut both sides. Then use
a block on both cut windings and press out the windings.

Here are the videos showing the method.

And here is a video showing chopping and knocking out the windings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al45MXMp7e0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjF5Hj2Udg
See 1 minute 48 seconds to 2 minute 20 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md3HyohxCk
2 minutes to 2:45

Mikek



---
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http://www.avast.com

Gunner Asch wrote:

Angle grinder with an abrasive metal cutting blade works quite
nicely.


A wide blade in an air chisel. Less copper dust that way. I've
scrapped some big transformers with a wide wood chisel and a hammer.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:44:57 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:17:34 PM UTC-7, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"Ignoramus14156" wrote in message



...



I have a couple of water cooled low voltage high current transformers



like these:







https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...726_131901.jpg







They are not the usual kind and have very heavy copper bars and pipes



for windings and cooling.







I want to know how I can delaminate them in an environmentally



conscious fashion. Thanks











I swear you couldn't pour **** out of a boot without asking on usenet, if



the instructions were written on the bottom...







-you have a large hydraulic press, ****ing learn to USE it.



I see no difference between iggy continuously posting question after question here without doing any thinking and this kind of poster:



Someone who has a brake job done on his wife's car and when the job is done gets on Usenet and bitches about the price because he's too much of a ****ing pussy to ask the mechanic where he got the brake parts from.



iggy's not mechanical. iggy never will be mechanical. iggy will never be any kind of decent machinist because he can't think and reason. iggy thinks he's really clever asking others on Usenet to think for him. He doesn't realize how much he hurts himself with this mentality. What's worse are people that for years make every excuse for this kind of behavior. It makes me sick.

Get a friggin' life.

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 8:06:17 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
[..]
Cliques suck and they're for the weak.

Ahh, the Cobra-Kai Solid Modeling Dojo method. Sweep the leg!

On Monday, July 28, 2014 11:02:29 AM UTC-7, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sunday, July 27, 2014 8:06:17 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

[..]

Cliques suck and they're for the weak.



Ahh, the Cobra-Kai Solid Modeling Dojo method. Sweep the leg!


Where did you say your mechanic got those brake parts from?

Still too much of a ****ing pussy to ask him?

On Monday, July 28, 2014 10:57:20 AM UTC-7, rangerssuck wrote:

Get a friggin' life...

said the anonymous posting pussy who thinks it's okay to attach others who post with their real name.

**** off and die, asshole.

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:37:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:26:20 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:



amdx fired this volley in news:lr2s10$1rr$2@dont-

email.me:



I have a feeling that iggy is doing just fine for himself.



It pretty much seems that way to anyone who isn't jealous of him.



He usually forges ahead, but when he butts up against something

unfamiliar, he asks.



What's different about that from the way any competent tradesman works?



"Just try anything and if it doesn't work we'll try something else" is a

pretty expensive mantra (at the very least in man-hours, on a low-margin

task), especially with all the varied experiences on tap on the web.



Sometimes I hire 'experts' to solve materials handling issues (powders

and dusts, not metal). Usually, it's worth the money.



Lloyd



Way back when I was an apprentice boy I realized that while the "Old

Sweats", when they got a drawing, would sometimes wander around the

shop talking with their mates, "What do you think of this one?" and

after a bunch of discussion they'd get a piece of stock and make the

damned thing. The young lads were embarrassed to ask and sometimes

spent a day or so whittling away at something and then having to throw

the half done project in the junk pile because it couldn't be finishes

- no way to hold it in the machine.


I decided that I'd do the same as the old guys and discovered that

one can be amazingly smart when one accesses the minds of five or six

other guys :-)

Been there and I wish I had done that back then, too.