You might enjoy this from Col D. G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., and history
buff.
You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of ringside seat to
history:



1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the
Japanese (China, 1937).

The first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians
(Finland 1940); highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen Lesley
McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. So much for allies.



2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He
was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his
age. His benefits were later restored by act of Congress.



3. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called
CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'); the shoulder patch of the US Army's
45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train
was named 'Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes.



4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
[Actually the 8th Air Force alone suffered about 5,000 more KIA than
the entire Marine Corps in WW2.) While completing the required 30
missions, an airman's chance of being killed was 71%.



5. Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter
pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese
Ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a
passenger on a cargo plane.



6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics, so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet
tracers, instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the
enemy.

Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly
double and their loss rate go down.



Here's something related from 5th SF, Detachment B-52's --- Tips of
the Trade
item #32: "Tracers work both ways".



7. When allied armies reached the Rhine, the first thing men did was
pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to
Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had
himself photographed in the act).



8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City, but
they decided it wasn't worth the effort.



9. German submarine U-1206 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.



10. Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several
Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until
they were captured by the Russians, and forced to fight for the
Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans, and forced to
fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army.



11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and
Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands .
21 troops were killed in the assault on the island. It could have
been worse if there had been any Japanese on the island.



12. The last Marine killed in WW2 was killed by a can of spam. He was
on the ground as a POW in Japan when rescue flights dropping food and
supplies came over, the package came apart in the air and a stray can
of spam hit him and killed him.

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:04:20 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics, so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet
tracers, instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the
enemy.

Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly
double and their loss rate go down.



Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

Oh indeed. But the article was about WW2

Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 21:18:44 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:04 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Gunner fired this volley in
:

6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics, so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet
tracers, instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the
enemy.

Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly
double and their loss rate go down.



Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21

Shrug




"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.




"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

Truly fascinating, I hope that it is true. I especially liked the part
about the Koreans.

i

It has all the "feel" of internet legend. However,
I could not find it on the web.

I wonder with the 12 year old. He was wounded and
discharged. Did they have to wound him also? I'd
have guessed just write him up and ship him home.
Did the court sentence him to be shot or some
thing?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/2013 6:43 PM, Ignoramus20545 wrote:
Truly fascinating, I hope that it is true. I especially liked the part
about the Koreans.

i

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics, so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet
tracers, instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the
enemy.

Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly
double and their loss rate go down.



Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:13:15 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
[Actually the 8th Air Force alone suffered about 5,000 more KIA than
the entire Marine Corps in WW2.) While completing the required 30
missions, an airman's chance of being killed was 71%.

Guess I'm lucky my father was an honest man... WWII was the last time a
non collage graduate could become a combat pilot. (Sergeant pilot
program) He qualified and went to cadet school. Did well until the very
last item before moving to flight training, an interview with a
psychologist. He noted others spent widely varying time being
interviewed.

His turn finally came and the very first question was "Why did you join
the Army Air Force?" His answer of "To keep out of the infantry Sir!"
was apparently not what they wanted to hear as there were no further
questions. Ended up being a propeller mechanic in the Pacific theater.
--
William

On 9/24/2013 7:04 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Gunner fired this volley in
:

6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics, so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet
tracers, instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the
enemy.

Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly
double and their loss rate go down.



Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:13:15 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:




You might enjoy this from Col D. G. Swinford, USMC, Ret., and history
buff.
You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of ringside seat to
history:



1. Twas killed by the
Japanese (China, 1937).

The first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians
(Finland 1940); highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen Lesley
McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. So much for allies.



2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He
was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his
age. His benefits were later restored by act of Congress.



3. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called
CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'); the shoulder patch of the US Army's
45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train
was named 'Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes.



4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
[Actually the 8th Air Force alone suffered about 5,000 more KIA than
the entire Marine Corps in WW2.) While completing the required 30
missions, an airman's chance of being killed was 71%.

The Air Force had, at its height in mid-1944, 2.6 million people
The Marines had approximately 475,000 personnel.

Actually the original tour of duty for A.F. combat crews was 1 year in
1942. Later various criteria was specified. 25 - 30 missions in some
commands. The number 25 was at a time when the life expectancy of a
crew/pilot was 8 - 12 missions.



5. Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter
pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese
Ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a
passenger on a cargo plane.


Erich Alfred Hartmann flew some 1,404 combat mission for the Germans
in WW II, had 352 confirmed kills and died in 1993 at the age of 91



6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics, so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet
tracers, instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were
out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the
enemy.

Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly
double and their loss rate go down.

1 in 5 Tracers were still being loaded in B-29 turrets in the 1950's
in Japan. Both in the aircraft assigned to the 98th bomb wing and the
91st reconnaissance squadron.


--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:34:21 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

It has all the "feel" of internet legend. However,
I could not find it on the web.

I wonder with the 12 year old. He was wounded and
discharged. Did they have to wound him also? I'd
have guessed just write him up and ship him home.
Did the court sentence him to be shot or some
thing?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
He was wounded in combat during the Battle of Guadalcanal and received
the Bronze Star, for giving assistance to other wounded, and a Purple
Heart.

Subsequently, apparently, his mother notified the Navy of his age and
he (again apparently) was court marshaled for lying and confined to
the Brig and later received a dishonorable discharge.

When he reached 17 years of age he re-enlisted in the Marines - which
seems a bit strange given his pervious dishonorable discharge - and
after 3 years he broke his back and was discharged again.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

"Richard" wrote in message
...

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Wing-mounted guns toed inward to converge a few hundred yards out,
then diverge out of the gunsight. Many of the great aces were
relatively poor shots who won by outflying the enemy well enough to
stay close on their six.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ons-36295.html
"Every pilot who I've heard express an opinion says that the
easiest/best way to shoot down an enemy aircraft was at close range
and zero deflection."

jsw

"John B." wrote in message
...

3. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called
CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'); the shoulder patch of the US Army's
45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train
was named 'Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes.

Before the war the back (Reverse) of the US dime bore the symbol of
Fascism.
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000..._5_xlarge.jpeg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:It...930s-1940s.svg


Erich Alfred Hartmann flew some 1,404 combat mission for the Germans
in WW II, had 352 confirmed kills and died in 1993 at the age of 91
John B.

An Allied airman with Hartmann's high crash record would have spent
the war as a POW after his first downing in enemy territory. He lost
his own plane on average once per 27 victories (352/13) but was lucky
to survive them, and land on friendly soil.

jsw

On 9/25/2013 9:19 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
An Allied airman with Hartmann's high crash record would have spent
the war as a POW after his first downing in enemy territory....

An Allied airman with Hartman's skill would have spent most of the war
teaching other airmen, once his skill had been demonstrated. Much
better use of the skill. Bob

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
On 9/25/2013 9:19 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
An Allied airman with Hartmann's high crash record would have spent
the war as a POW after his first downing in enemy territory....

An Allied airman with Hartman's skill would have spent most of the
war teaching other airmen, once his skill had been demonstrated.
Much better use of the skill. Bob

Hartman began poorly and was fortunate to have plenty of time to
develop his skills in the relatively safe skies over the Russian
Front, where he stayed while other high-scoring aces moved to the
defense of Germany and found that they weren't so superior any more.
At Ploesti Mustangs ran Hartmann out of fuel, neither side being able
to outmaneuver the other to get a shot.

http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Orde...t-Training.htm

jsw

On 9/24/2013 8:23 PM, William Bagwell wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:13:15 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
[Actually the 8th Air Force alone suffered about 5,000 more KIA than
the entire Marine Corps in WW2.) While completing the required 30
missions, an airman's chance of being killed was 71%.

Guess I'm lucky my father was an honest man... WWII was the last time a
non collage graduate could become a combat pilot. (Sergeant pilot
program) He qualified and went to cadet school. Did well until the very
last item before moving to flight training, an interview with a
psychologist. He noted others spent widely varying time being
interviewed.

His turn finally came and the very first question was "Why did you join
the Army Air Force?" His answer of "To keep out of the infantry Sir!"
was apparently not what they wanted to hear as there were no further
questions. Ended up being a propeller mechanic in the Pacific theater.



My Daddy was a WAC recruiter...I often wonder how he received his Purple
Heart???

On 9/24/2013 1:09 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.



I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:57:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 1:09 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.



I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:47:05 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 8:46 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:57:45 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 1:09 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.



I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

Never saw any yellow.
But the green once can get real big!

They certainly can! And those suckers are fast too!


"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:28:53 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/27/2013 12:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:47:05 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 8:46 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:57:45 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 1:09 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.



I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

Never saw any yellow.
But the green once can get real big!

They certainly can! And those suckers are fast too!


Since we were most often flying at the time, the tracers make the most
beautiful curves. (well, so did mine, but I actually like mine!)
It looks like they are going somewhere else, then they slowly curve in
toward you and pick up speed.

It takes a while to learn which ones have your name on them...


Its been my experience... those..you never see. Of course..I was
seldom flying into a cloud of them. Shrug


"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On 9/26/2013 8:46 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:57:45 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 1:09 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.



I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

Never saw any yellow.
But the green once can get real big!

On 9/27/2013 12:58 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:47:05 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 8:46 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:57:45 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 1:09 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:34:02 -0500,
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 12:54 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Gunner, I don't know how it was in WWII, but by the time Viet Nam came
around, they'd fixed that ballistics problem.

All we shot in both the M-60s and the Browning .50s was 4-and-1 ball and
tracer. I can guarantee you that out to about 500 yards (maybe 700),
they both held target on the tracer rounds, perfectly.

We had a lot of 'directed fire' kills to attest to that.

LLoyd

That agrees with my personal experience with M-60 and M-14.

And - fighters had to be at least that close to the target to hit
anything. So longer range shooting doesn't really happen.

Mighty dangerous firing tracer from the M14 or in my case..the early
version of the XM-21



Kinda depends on which end you are looking at, doesn't it?

True. Its far more dangerous to the shooter. The Target is a foregone
conclusion. and is the Enemy. Of no value at all..... alive.



I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

Never saw any yellow.
But the green once can get real big!

They certainly can! And those suckers are fast too!


Since we were most often flying at the time, the tracers make the most
beautiful curves. (well, so did mine, but I actually like mine!)
It looks like they are going somewhere else, then they slowly curve in
toward you and pick up speed.

It takes a while to learn which ones have your name on them...

Richard on Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:28:53 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

Never saw any yellow.
But the green once can get real big!

They certainly can! And those suckers are fast too!


Since we were most often flying at the time, the tracers make the most
beautiful curves. (well, so did mine, but I actually like mine!)
It looks like they are going somewhere else, then they slowly curve in
toward you and pick up speed.

It takes a while to learn which ones have your name on them...

As my Dad would say: It is not the one with your name on it you
need to worry about, it is the one marked "Occupant" or "Boxholder
local" or "To whom it may concern".
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Richard on Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:28:53 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I've fired several thousand tracers from an M-60.
Maybe I should have asked if it was safe first?

Should you? How much yellow/green return tracers did you get?

Gunner

Never saw any yellow.
But the green once can get real big!

They certainly can! And those suckers are fast too!


Since we were most often flying at the time, the tracers make the
most
beautiful curves. (well, so did mine, but I actually like mine!)
It looks like they are going somewhere else, then they slowly curve
in
toward you and pick up speed.

It takes a while to learn which ones have your name on them...

As my Dad would say: It is not the one with your name on it you
need to worry about, it is the one marked "Occupant" or "Boxholder
local" or "To whom it may concern".
--
pyotr filipivich

Captain Blackadder: Baldrick, what are you doing out there?
Private Baldrick: I'm carving something on a bullet, sir.
Captain Blackadder: What are you craving?
Private Baldrick: I'm carving "Baldrick", sir.
Captain Blackadder: Why?
Private Baldrick: It's part of a cunning plan, sir.
Captain Blackadder: Of course it is.
Private Baldrick: You know how they say that somewhere there's a
bullet with your name on it?
Captain Blackadder: Yes?
Private Baldrick: Well I thought that if I owned the bullet with my
name on it, I'll never get hit by it. Cause I'll never shoot myself...
Captain Blackadder: Oh, shame!
Private Baldrick: And the chances of there being *two* bullets with my
name on it are very small indeed.
Captain Blackadder: Yes, it's not the only thing that is "very small
indeed". Your brain for example- is brain's so minute, Baldrick, that
if a hungry cannibal cracked your head open, there wouldn't be enough
to cover a small water biscuit.

Tom Gardner wrote:

My Daddy was a WAC recruiter...I often wonder how he received his Purple
Heart???


Some of the WACs I met could pick up the front end of a Jeep. They
could be very dangerous to handle. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 10/17/2013 10:49 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

My Daddy was a WAC recruiter...I often wonder how he received his Purple
Heart???


Some of the WACs I met could pick up the front end of a Jeep. They
could be very dangerous to handle. ;-)



I wonder how he got those scars on his back?