Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

--
Fake email in case you were wondering. So much spam. Real woodart AT
email-com I am sure you can convert that.

On 4/20/2013 4:34 PM, wrote:
Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

I thread lots of 5/16 stainless rods to make into "U" clamps for ham
antenna projects. Use a 7" EMCO lathe and a die in a holder in the tail
stock. Guess you don't have a lathe.

Should also be able to hold it in a vice. Are you tapering the rod where
the thread starts? That has to be done to get the die to begin making
threads.

Paul

fired this volley in
:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to
wood so rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be
outside. Got a piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is
too hard to thread, have a good vise but with all the pressure It
won't hold in the vise. Even bought a new die and tapered the end
first. Had tried aluminum but it makes dark stains. Not into metal
stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe something coated? Thanks.


How much of it do you have to thread?

For hand-threading stainless, it's helpful to have progressive dies, but
you're not going to find them in a hardware store, or at hardware store
prices. Usually, it's pretty easy to thread on a lathe, unless you get
careless and work-harden piece.

If you don't have a lot of it to do, it might be cheaper to take it to a
local machinist and ask him to do it.

If you're wanting to thread the whole length -- it's available already
threaded cheaper than you'll ever do it yourself.

The other option would be to use all-thread inside a piece of SS tubing
cut to fit what would be the 'unthreaded' section.

LLoyd

On Apr 20, 7:34*pm, wrote:
Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. *Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise.

Missing a lot of info. How long does the rod have to be? Would
galvanized bolts work? How many rods are you wanting?
What about aluminum? Brass? Stainless threaded rod. Zinc plated
threaded rod?

The stainless rod you have is probably work hardened. How about
heating up the end you are trying to thread with a propane torch to
soften the rod you have. Anyway you get the idea, we can help more if
we knew more.


Dan

wrote in message ...

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.


Stainless is a bitch to thread, no question about it.

But I didn't have any trouble finding stainless all-thread on the web.

Here's 1/4-20 threaded 18-8, 36" long for about $6 each:
http://www.profhdwr.com/17925.htm

18-8 won't stay shiny when exposed to weather, but it won't rust either. It
just gets a dark brown patina on it.

316, on the other hand, will stay pretty shiny, but I couldn't find it
threaded under 3/8" diameter.

Tom

On 2013-04-20 19:34:21 -0400, said:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

Although not cheap, brass rod should do nicely and is pretty impervious
to weather.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 02:47:45 -0400, CatfishJohn wrote:

On 2013-04-20 19:34:21 -0400, said:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

Although not cheap, brass rod should do nicely and is pretty impervious
to weather.

Wasnt he going to bend it after it was threaded?

Wont work with brass. Bronze..maybe

Gunner

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

--
Fake email in case you were wondering. So much spam. Real woodart AT
email-com I am sure you can convert that.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

Bronze is usually used in marine applications. Check at Jamestown for
the item you need, A. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com
They probably have bronze allthread, too. (Entirely threaded rod.)


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

--
Stain and poly are their own punishment.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

--
Ned Simmons

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/21/2013 2:34, wrote:
Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first.

There is something wrong with your threading technique or
tools if you can't thread a piece of 304 or 316 rod. It is
not at all hard to thread.

With threading tools, I would first check that your thread
die is proper quality.. With a cheap one it may well be that
you can't make a single thread to even steel.. Get a good one.

Of course, if you don't know the material of the rod (mystery metal
from junkyard), it could be some very hard material.. In this case,
get proper 316 rod.. The file test is also a good idea - you should
be able to file it easily..

Kristian Ukkonen.

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:55:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.

I worked in boatyards for several years after college, then ran a
custom marine hardware fab business for several more years. It drove
me nuts that it seemed the answer to every materials question was "316
SS," even from folks I had a lot of respect for.

This is what the corrosion volume of the ASM Handbook says regarding
304/316 and stress corrosion:
"The common austenitic grades, AISI types 304 and 316, are
especially susceptible to chloride SCC."

But it also says that stress corrosion is generally not a problem in
the environment that standing rigging is typically exposed to:
"Stress-corrosion cracking is generally not a concern when austenitic
or ferritic stainless steels are used in atmospheric
exposures. Several austenitic stainless steels were exposed to a
marine atmosphere at Kure Beach, NC. Annealed and
quarter-hard wrought AISI types 201, 301, 302, 304, and 316 stainless
steels were not susceptible to SCC."


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.


--
Ned Simmons

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:41:07 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:55:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.

I worked in boatyards for several years after college, then ran a
custom marine hardware fab business for several more years. It drove
me nuts that it seemed the answer to every materials question was "316
SS," even from folks I had a lot of respect for.

This is what the corrosion volume of the ASM Handbook says regarding
304/316 and stress corrosion:
"The common austenitic grades, AISI types 304 and 316, are
especially susceptible to chloride SCC."

But it also says that stress corrosion is generally not a problem in
the environment that standing rigging is typically exposed to:
"Stress-corrosion cracking is generally not a concern when austenitic
or ferritic stainless steels are used in atmospheric
exposures. Several austenitic stainless steels were exposed to a
marine atmosphere at Kure Beach, NC. Annealed and
quarter-hard wrought AISI types 201, 301, 302, 304, and 316 stainless
steels were not susceptible to SCC."


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

OK, but to what do you attribute that "drooling rust" that appears on
stressed sheet-metal clevices, shackles, and so on?

Unfortunately I don't have the ferrous volume of ASM Metals Handbook
or I'd look it up myself.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:50:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:41:07 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:55:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.

I worked in boatyards for several years after college, then ran a
custom marine hardware fab business for several more years. It drove
me nuts that it seemed the answer to every materials question was "316
SS," even from folks I had a lot of respect for.

This is what the corrosion volume of the ASM Handbook says regarding
304/316 and stress corrosion:
"The common austenitic grades, AISI types 304 and 316, are
especially susceptible to chloride SCC."

But it also says that stress corrosion is generally not a problem in
the environment that standing rigging is typically exposed to:
"Stress-corrosion cracking is generally not a concern when austenitic
or ferritic stainless steels are used in atmospheric
exposures. Several austenitic stainless steels were exposed to a
marine atmosphere at Kure Beach, NC. Annealed and
quarter-hard wrought AISI types 201, 301, 302, 304, and 316 stainless
steels were not susceptible to SCC."


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

OK, but to what do you attribute that "drooling rust" that appears on
stressed sheet-metal clevices, shackles, and so on?

If it's drooling rather than surface spotting it may be coming from
the load bearing surfaces in the joints. As the rigging works there's
bound to be galling or wear that'll break the passive layer and create
scratches that are going to continue rusting as long as there's
movement in the joint.


Unfortunately I don't have the ferrous volume of ASM Metals Handbook
or I'd look it up myself.

The passages I quoted are from Volume 13 - Corrosion.

--
Ned Simmons

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 23:31:30 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:50:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:41:07 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:55:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.

I worked in boatyards for several years after college, then ran a
custom marine hardware fab business for several more years. It drove
me nuts that it seemed the answer to every materials question was "316
SS," even from folks I had a lot of respect for.

This is what the corrosion volume of the ASM Handbook says regarding
304/316 and stress corrosion:
"The common austenitic grades, AISI types 304 and 316, are
especially susceptible to chloride SCC."

But it also says that stress corrosion is generally not a problem in
the environment that standing rigging is typically exposed to:
"Stress-corrosion cracking is generally not a concern when austenitic
or ferritic stainless steels are used in atmospheric
exposures. Several austenitic stainless steels were exposed to a
marine atmosphere at Kure Beach, NC. Annealed and
quarter-hard wrought AISI types 201, 301, 302, 304, and 316 stainless
steels were not susceptible to SCC."


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

OK, but to what do you attribute that "drooling rust" that appears on
stressed sheet-metal clevices, shackles, and so on?

If it's drooling rather than surface spotting it may be coming from
the load bearing surfaces in the joints. As the rigging works there's
bound to be galling or wear that'll break the passive layer and create
scratches that are going to continue rusting as long as there's
movement in the joint.

That sounds reasonable.



Unfortunately I don't have the ferrous volume of ASM Metals Handbook
or I'd look it up myself.

The passages I quoted are from Volume 13 - Corrosion.

I *definitely* don't have that one. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 23:31:30 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:50:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:41:07 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:55:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.

I worked in boatyards for several years after college, then ran a
custom marine hardware fab business for several more years. It drove
me nuts that it seemed the answer to every materials question was "316
SS," even from folks I had a lot of respect for.

This is what the corrosion volume of the ASM Handbook says regarding
304/316 and stress corrosion:
"The common austenitic grades, AISI types 304 and 316, are
especially susceptible to chloride SCC."

But it also says that stress corrosion is generally not a problem in
the environment that standing rigging is typically exposed to:
"Stress-corrosion cracking is generally not a concern when austenitic
or ferritic stainless steels are used in atmospheric
exposures. Several austenitic stainless steels were exposed to a
marine atmosphere at Kure Beach, NC. Annealed and
quarter-hard wrought AISI types 201, 301, 302, 304, and 316 stainless
steels were not susceptible to SCC."


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

OK, but to what do you attribute that "drooling rust" that appears on
stressed sheet-metal clevices, shackles, and so on?

If it's drooling rather than surface spotting it may be coming from
the load bearing surfaces in the joints. As the rigging works there's
bound to be galling or wear that'll break the passive layer and create
scratches that are going to continue rusting as long as there's
movement in the joint.


It doesn't seem to work that way in practice. One very seldom finds
rust of any consequence on the pins and bolts that hold the rigging to
the mast or to the rigging screws. In fact, stainless rigging does not
seem to be particularly prone to corrosion. My experience was that
bronze rigging screws required more attention than the stainless
rigging :-)


Unfortunately I don't have the ferrous volume of ASM Metals Handbook
or I'd look it up myself.

The passages I quoted are from Volume 13 - Corrosion.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 18:48:11 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 23:31:30 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:50:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:41:07 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:55:45 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die, it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless. My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise. Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.

I worked in boatyards for several years after college, then ran a
custom marine hardware fab business for several more years. It drove
me nuts that it seemed the answer to every materials question was "316
SS," even from folks I had a lot of respect for.

This is what the corrosion volume of the ASM Handbook says regarding
304/316 and stress corrosion:
"The common austenitic grades, AISI types 304 and 316, are
especially susceptible to chloride SCC."

But it also says that stress corrosion is generally not a problem in
the environment that standing rigging is typically exposed to:
"Stress-corrosion cracking is generally not a concern when austenitic
or ferritic stainless steels are used in atmospheric
exposures. Several austenitic stainless steels were exposed to a
marine atmosphere at Kure Beach, NC. Annealed and
quarter-hard wrought AISI types 201, 301, 302, 304, and 316 stainless
steels were not susceptible to SCC."


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

OK, but to what do you attribute that "drooling rust" that appears on
stressed sheet-metal clevices, shackles, and so on?

If it's drooling rather than surface spotting it may be coming from
the load bearing surfaces in the joints. As the rigging works there's
bound to be galling or wear that'll break the passive layer and create
scratches that are going to continue rusting as long as there's
movement in the joint.


It doesn't seem to work that way in practice. One very seldom finds
rust of any consequence on the pins and bolts that hold the rigging to
the mast or to the rigging screws. In fact, stainless rigging does not
seem to be particularly prone to corrosion. My experience was that
bronze rigging screws required more attention than the stainless
rigging :-)

Well, I've certainly seen it, on lighweight rigging used on planing
dinghies and such. It appears to be cosmetic.

As for the grades of stainless used, again, I can only go on what
other sailors, mostly with more sal****er experience than I have, have
told me.

I had a Cape Dory Typhoon on Barnegat Bay for some years but rusting
stainless was never a problem. Cape Dory doesn't spare expense on
anything.

--
Ed Huntress



Unfortunately I don't have the ferrous volume of ASM Metals Handbook
or I'd look it up myself.

The passages I quoted are from Volume 13 - Corrosion.

On 4/26/2013 4:16 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
:-)

Picture silicon breast implants -- hard as a rock. :-)



Semiconductor boobs?

There's that old joke about the new Apple MP3 player that
is embedded in a woman's breasts, because she's tired of men
looking at her boobs, but not listening?

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die,
it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless.
My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood
so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to
thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise.
Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

I have a very good book (reportedly a classic) on sailboat rigging:

"The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and
Traditional Rigging", by Brion Toss, International Marine (a division
of McGraw-Hill), 1998.

The matter of corrosion of stainless steel fittings is discussed at
some length, starting on page 275. Basically, crevice corrosion is the
issue. The mechanism is lack of oxygen in confined spaces, such as
between a stainless steel fitting and the thing it is bolted or crimped
to.

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

The author also addresses stress corrosion and metal fatigue, largely
in the context of failure swaged connections between fittings and wire
rope. The general solution there is slush plus better mechanical
details.

Anyway, I'd recommend that people read this part of the book for the
practical experience and advice.


Joe Gwinn

On 2013-04-26, Joe Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease,

Good approach -- but that is "silicon*E*" not "silicon".
Silicon is a crystalline substance somewhat like glass except that it is
not transparent to visible light. (Silicon and Germanium are transparent
to certain ranges if infrared light, however, and have been used to make
lenses for IR imagers. (It is also used, in precisely impure forms, to
make transistors, rectifiers, and integrated circuits.)

Silicon is a element -- silicone is a family of chemicals in
which the silicon elements take the place of carbon in organic
chemicals. Thus a grease is possible there, while pure silicon, if
crushed to make filler for some other carrier would be very abrasive.
:-)

Picture silicon breast implants -- hard as a rock. :-)

pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

So many things that could have (and should have) been patented. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article , DoN.
Nichols wrote:

On 2013-04-26, Joe Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease,

Good approach -- but that is "silicon*E*" not "silicon".
Silicon is a crystalline substance somewhat like glass except that it is
not transparent to visible light. (Silicon and Germanium are transparent
to certain ranges if infrared light, however, and have been used to make
lenses for IR imagers. (It is also used, in precisely impure forms, to
make transistors, rectifiers, and integrated circuits.)

Silicon is a element -- silicone is a family of chemicals in
which the silicon elements take the place of carbon in organic
chemicals. Thus a grease is possible there, while pure silicon, if
crushed to make filler for some other carrier would be very abrasive.
:-)

Picture silicon breast implants -- hard as a rock. :-)

Saved by the "grease" part?

I do know the difference, but the language is changing.


pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

So many things that could have (and should have) been patented. :-)

Oh yes. And lots of nonsense is patented as well.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:51:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die,
it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless.
My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood
so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to
thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise.
Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

I have a very good book (reportedly a classic) on sailboat rigging:

"The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and
Traditional Rigging", by Brion Toss, International Marine (a division
of McGraw-Hill), 1998.

The matter of corrosion of stainless steel fittings is discussed at
some length, starting on page 275. Basically, crevice corrosion is the
issue. The mechanism is lack of oxygen in confined spaces, such as
between a stainless steel fitting and the thing it is bolted or crimped
to.

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

The author also addresses stress corrosion and metal fatigue, largely
in the context of failure swaged connections between fittings and wire
rope. The general solution there is slush plus better mechanical
details.

Anyway, I'd recommend that people read this part of the book for the
practical experience and advice.


Joe Gwinn

Toss' book is indeed a classic but he does get all nostalgic about old
time stuff - in one part of the book he gets rather excited about
galvanized rigging - which will last providing that the rigger spends
longer wrapping and frapping and slushing with Stockholm tar and
whatnot than he did splicing :-)

But stainless rigging really doesn't have a lot of problems with
crevice corrosion and all the other mystical stainless corrosions
except for the swedged terminals on the lower shrouds which tend to
crack around the cable probably due to corrosion between the cable and
the swedged fittings although the "screw together" terminals like
Norseman don't seem to have this problem.

By the way, the old timey solution to battery terminal was a much
cruder version of your silicon grease solution - just gob a handful of
chassis grease all over the terminals, cover them up. It worked but is
pretty messy :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:51:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the die,
it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is useless.
My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to wood
so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside. Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to
thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise.
Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for. Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

I have a very good book (reportedly a classic) on sailboat rigging:

"The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and
Traditional Rigging", by Brion Toss, International Marine (a division
of McGraw-Hill), 1998.

The matter of corrosion of stainless steel fittings is discussed at
some length, starting on page 275. Basically, crevice corrosion is the
issue. The mechanism is lack of oxygen in confined spaces, such as
between a stainless steel fitting and the thing it is bolted or crimped
to.

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

The author also addresses stress corrosion and metal fatigue, largely
in the context of failure swaged connections between fittings and wire
rope. The general solution there is slush plus better mechanical
details.

Anyway, I'd recommend that people read this part of the book for the
practical experience and advice.


Joe Gwinn

It sounds interesting, and enjoyable reading, because I like that old
stuff. Maybe I'll get a chance to look it over. I don't get the
International Marine catalogs anymore. Maybe they gave up on me.

But I'll keep it in mind. Anything to do with sailing catches my
attention even though I don't do much of it anymore.

--
Ed Huntress

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Picture silicon breast implants -- hard as a rock. :-)


They would be real 'Jugs'. ;-)

In article , J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:51:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the
die,
it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be
used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it
can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is
useless.
My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to
wood
so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside.
Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to
thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise.
Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for.
Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

I have a very good book (reportedly a classic) on sailboat rigging:

"The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and
Traditional Rigging", by Brion Toss, International Marine (a division
of McGraw-Hill), 1998.

The matter of corrosion of stainless steel fittings is discussed at
some length, starting on page 275. Basically, crevice corrosion is the
issue. The mechanism is lack of oxygen in confined spaces, such as
between a stainless steel fitting and the thing it is bolted or crimped
to.

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

The author also addresses stress corrosion and metal fatigue, largely
in the context of failure swaged connections between fittings and wire
rope. The general solution there is slush plus better mechanical
details.

Anyway, I'd recommend that people read this part of the book for the
practical experience and advice.


Joe Gwinn

Toss' book is indeed a classic but he does get all nostalgic about old
time stuff - in one part of the book he gets rather excited about
galvanized rigging - which will last providing that the rigger spends
longer wrapping and frapping and slushing with Stockholm tar and
whatnot than he did splicing :-)

You're right about that. He didn't see the reason to spend the money
on stainless, but he still told how to do it - he wasn't going to send
work away.


But stainless rigging really doesn't have a lot of problems with
crevice corrosion and all the other mystical stainless corrosions
except for the swedged terminals on the lower shrouds which tend to
crack around the cable probably due to corrosion between the cable and
the swedged fittings although the "screw together" terminals like
Norseman don't seem to have this problem.

He didn't trust stainless to just work, and talked about inspecting by
unbolting a few things and looking. He also was not worried about rust
stains, but advised to look for surface pitting with a strong light and
a magnifier. If there was any pitting, it had to be dealt with,
generally with slush (if soon enough) or replacement (if too far gone)
or failure would soon be upon us, most likely during a storm.

As for swaged fittings, he recommended dipping the wire end in lanolin
or the like before assembly and crimping, precisely to exclude salt
water from the interstices of the wire in the crimp barrel. This was
especially important in the Tropics.

I used this method for copper wire terminals on my car, only used
silicon grease, followed with a heat-shrink sleeve for mechanical
strength. This worked well at keeping road salt from destroying the
assembly.

All in all, I found Toss's book to be quite practical. And I don't
even own a boat, though I grew up with boats.


By the way, the old timey solution to battery terminal was a much
cruder version of your silicon grease solution - just gob a handful of
chassis grease all over the terminals, cover them up. It worked but is
pretty messy :-)

I do recall that method. But the wisdom of the day was that you should
never put grease between post and clamp, because it would interfere
with the passage of electricity. I heard this all the time, but I knew
that this had to be nonsense because when one clamps pieces of metal
together, it's the asperities (little metal hills) that are forced into
the opposing surfaces, and the clamping pressure is more than
sufficient to push any grease aside, so it ends up surrounding and
protecting the asperities, which carry the current.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:12:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Picture silicon breast implants -- hard as a rock. :-)


They would be real 'Jugs'. ;-)

Mammary saps, wot?

--
Stain and poly are their own punishment.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:15:06 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:51:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:06:48 GMT, wrote:

The rod needs to be smooth except for the threads. I will check the
die,
it
was $40 which is all I know about it. I did taper the end. It will be
used
on a boat, not sure what as this is something for my father. But it
can't
stain the wood. I do have a woodworkers lathe which I assume is
useless.
My
father is 90 so I am just trying to keep him happy.

If it is for a boat then use 316 stainless as it is far more
"stainless" than other common stainless :-)

As for threading. Try to file the end of the rod that you are planning
on threading. If a file cuts it easily than your problem is the vise
not the threading.


On 20-Apr-2013, wrote:

Looking for 1/4" metal rod I can thread. These will be attached to
wood
so
rusting or staining can be a problem since they will be outside.
Got a
piece of stainless, the softess I could get but it is too hard to
thread,
have a good vise but with all the pressure It won't hold in the vise.
Even
bought a new die and tapered the end first. Had tried aluminum but it
makes
dark stains. Not into metal stuff so don't know what to look for.
Maybe
something coated? Thanks.

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

I have a very good book (reportedly a classic) on sailboat rigging:

"The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and
Traditional Rigging", by Brion Toss, International Marine (a division
of McGraw-Hill), 1998.

The matter of corrosion of stainless steel fittings is discussed at
some length, starting on page 275. Basically, crevice corrosion is the
issue. The mechanism is lack of oxygen in confined spaces, such as
between a stainless steel fitting and the thing it is bolted or crimped
to.

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

The author also addresses stress corrosion and metal fatigue, largely
in the context of failure swaged connections between fittings and wire
rope. The general solution there is slush plus better mechanical
details.

Anyway, I'd recommend that people read this part of the book for the
practical experience and advice.


Joe Gwinn

Toss' book is indeed a classic but he does get all nostalgic about old
time stuff - in one part of the book he gets rather excited about
galvanized rigging - which will last providing that the rigger spends
longer wrapping and frapping and slushing with Stockholm tar and
whatnot than he did splicing :-)

You're right about that. He didn't see the reason to spend the money
on stainless, but he still told how to do it - he wasn't going to send
work away.


But stainless rigging really doesn't have a lot of problems with
crevice corrosion and all the other mystical stainless corrosions
except for the swedged terminals on the lower shrouds which tend to
crack around the cable probably due to corrosion between the cable and
the swedged fittings although the "screw together" terminals like
Norseman don't seem to have this problem.

He didn't trust stainless to just work, and talked about inspecting by
unbolting a few things and looking. He also was not worried about rust
stains, but advised to look for surface pitting with a strong light and
a magnifier. If there was any pitting, it had to be dealt with,
generally with slush (if soon enough) or replacement (if too far gone)
or failure would soon be upon us, most likely during a storm.

To be honest, I never found anything wrong with swedged stainless
rigging except for the cracks in the bottom shroud fittings. I
understand that insurance companies suggest that stainless rigging be
changed every ten years but I'm not sure of the reasoning. I did
replace all the rigging on my last boat, and it was likely more than
ten years old, and I noticed that cutting the old rigging cables
seemed to take more effort than cutting the new cable but I don't know
whether that was work hardening of the old cables or a different alloy
in the new :-)

As for swaged fittings, he recommended dipping the wire end in lanolin
or the like before assembly and crimping, precisely to exclude salt
water from the interstices of the wire in the crimp barrel. This was
especially important in the Tropics.

That makes sense (I guess). I replaced the terminals with screw
together terminals and filled them full of 5200 before screwing them
together and sealant did squirt out around the cable but I don't know
how far it penetrated into the cable.

I used this method for copper wire terminals on my car, only used
silicon grease, followed with a heat-shrink sleeve for mechanical
strength. This worked well at keeping road salt from destroying the
assembly.

All in all, I found Toss's book to be quite practical. And I don't
even own a boat, though I grew up with boats.

I found it to be very good reading and about the best instructions for
splicing, particularly braided rope, I've come across.

By the way, the old timey solution to battery terminal was a much
cruder version of your silicon grease solution - just gob a handful of
chassis grease all over the terminals, cover them up. It worked but is
pretty messy :-)

I do recall that method. But the wisdom of the day was that you should
never put grease between post and clamp, because it would interfere
with the passage of electricity. I heard this all the time, but I knew
that this had to be nonsense because when one clamps pieces of metal
together, it's the asperities (little metal hills) that are forced into
the opposing surfaces, and the clamping pressure is more than
sufficient to push any grease aside, so it ends up surrounding and
protecting the asperities, which carry the current.

Joe Gwinn
--
Cheers,

John B.

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:12:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Picture silicon breast implants -- hard as a rock. :-)


They would be real 'Jugs'. ;-)

Mammary saps, wot?


They would have to be registered as deadly weapons.

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of
the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that
space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every
auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a
thousand
people had the same experience.


IIRC the standard advice of the time was to use Vaseline, since it did
the least harm of all the commonly available greases when accidentally
transferred elsewhere such as on the fender paint or your clothes. I
don't remember it being very effective at halting corrosion so I tried
LPS3, which was somewhat better.
jsw

In article , Jim Wilkins
wrote:

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of
the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that
space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every
auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a
thousand
people had the same experience.


IIRC the standard advice of the time was to use Vaseline, since it did
the least harm of all the commonly available greases when accidentally
transferred elsewhere such as on the fender paint or your clothes. I
don't remember it being very effective at halting corrosion so I tried
LPS3, which was somewhat better.

That's my recollection as well. What was new was that GE had just
released a new product, GE 620, a dielectric grease intended for
high-voltage insulators. (Don't think GE makes it any more, but many
other do.) This was the game changer. Plus the realization that the
grease had to go between post and clamp, versus smeared on the outside.

Joe Gwinn

Joe Gwinn wrote:

That's my recollection as well. What was new was that GE had just
released a new product, GE 620, a dielectric grease intended for
high-voltage insulators. (Don't think GE makes it any more, but many
other do.) This was the game changer. Plus the realization that the
grease had to go between post and clamp, versus smeared on the outside.


I've always used axle grease on battery terminals. It doesn't melt
and run out of the terminal, like some other types.

In article , J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:15:06 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:51:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:40:16 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:59:29 +0700, J.B.Slocomb
wrote:

[snip]

As JB says, 316 stainless if you want it to be stain-free.

I didn't notice if this is for fresh water or salt, but if it is for
salt water use and it has any load on it, anything but 316 will
develop stress-corrosion effects that can drive you nuts. Even if
strength isn't an issue, a stressed piece of 304 in salt water will
probably get rust spots or streaks on it.

Sure you're not mixing up stress corrosion and crevice corrosion? Both
304 and 316 are prone to stress corrosion. 316 does resist crevice
corrosion and pitting better than 304.

Stress corrosion is blamed for rusting of sailboat rigging and similar
applications. It's not something I learned from materials science but
rather something I learned as a sailor. I don't know what the
mechanism is. But the story is that 304 gives problems, and 316 does
not. I've seen it, but the descriptions come from experieced boating
people I've known, not from materials scientists.


As far as cosmetic rust spots go in a marine environment, for stuff
out in the open and above the water line, the finish can make a bigger
impact on rust spotting than the the difference between 304 and 316.
It's tough to distinguish between 304 and 316 for parts that are
highly polished and not exposed to stagnant water.

I don't have experience with that, but I'll take your word for it.
Passivating and the quality of the steel are issues, too.

I have a very good book (reportedly a classic) on sailboat rigging:

"The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and
Traditional Rigging", by Brion Toss, International Marine (a division
of McGraw-Hill), 1998.

The matter of corrosion of stainless steel fittings is discussed at
some length, starting on page 275. Basically, crevice corrosion is the
issue. The mechanism is lack of oxygen in confined spaces, such as
between a stainless steel fitting and the thing it is bolted or crimped
to.

The general solution is to fill such spaces with a compound he calls
"slush", which is composed of 6 parts stockholm tar, 3 parts boiled
linseed oil, 1 part Japan drier, and 1 part spar varnish. I assume
that this is a traditional recipe, handed down in one form or another
since the age of sail.

Also widely used is straight lanolin.

I developed a similar trick in the 1970s to slow automobile
battery-post corrosion down: I smeared the post and the inside of the
clamp with silicon dielectric grease, pushed clamp onto post, and
tightened. This ensured that the space between post and clamp was
filled with silicon grease, preventing wicking of acid into that space.
I should have patented it - now kits to do the same are in every auto
parts store. But it seemed too simple and obvious. I bet a thousand
people had the same experience.

The author also addresses stress corrosion and metal fatigue, largely
in the context of failure swaged connections between fittings and wire
rope. The general solution there is slush plus better mechanical
details.

Anyway, I'd recommend that people read this part of the book for the
practical experience and advice.


Joe Gwinn

Toss' book is indeed a classic but he does get all nostalgic about old
time stuff - in one part of the book he gets rather excited about
galvanized rigging - which will last providing that the rigger spends
longer wrapping and frapping and slushing with Stockholm tar and
whatnot than he did splicing :-)

You're right about that. He didn't see the reason to spend the money
on stainless, but he still told how to do it - he wasn't going to send
work away.


But stainless rigging really doesn't have a lot of problems with
crevice corrosion and all the other mystical stainless corrosions
except for the swedged terminals on the lower shrouds which tend to
crack around the cable probably due to corrosion between the cable and
the swedged fittings although the "screw together" terminals like
Norseman don't seem to have this problem.

He didn't trust stainless to just work, and talked about inspecting by
unbolting a few things and looking. He also was not worried about rust
stains, but advised to look for surface pitting with a strong light and
a magnifier. If there was any pitting, it had to be dealt with,
generally with slush (if soon enough) or replacement (if too far gone)
or failure would soon be upon us, most likely during a storm.

To be honest, I never found anything wrong with swedged stainless
rigging except for the cracks in the bottom shroud fittings. I
understand that insurance companies suggest that stainless rigging be
changed every ten years but I'm not sure of the reasoning. I did
replace all the rigging on my last boat, and it was likely more than
ten years old, and I noticed that cutting the old rigging cables
seemed to take more effort than cutting the new cable but I don't know
whether that was work hardening of the old cables or a different alloy
in the new :-)

Toss does discuss this. It's the accumulation of fatigue and various
kinds of corrosion slowly eating away at the safety margin. Not to
mention becoming brittle from work hardening. Everything looks OK, but
will break in a storm, just when it's most critical that it not break.

The steel has not likely gotten worse. Most likely, the cables are
work hardened, as you suspect. Another reason for periodic
replacement.


As for swaged fittings, he recommended dipping the wire end in lanolin
or the like before assembly and crimping, precisely to exclude salt
water from the interstices of the wire in the crimp barrel. This was
especially important in the Tropics.

That makes sense (I guess). I replaced the terminals with screw
together terminals and filled them full of 5200 before screwing them
together and sealant did squirt out around the cable but I don't know
how far it penetrated into the cable.

I assume that you mean 3M type 5200 sealant. This is listed for
fiberglass and wood, but 3M does not mention use for metal. I would
also guess that 5200 is too thick to penetrate through the wire rope.
So, there may be little protection in this, as the sal****er can wick
down the center of the rope.


I used this method for copper wire terminals on my car, only used
silicon grease, followed with a heat-shrink sleeve for mechanical
strength. This worked well at keeping road salt from destroying the
assembly.

All in all, I found Toss's book to be quite practical. And I don't
even own a boat, though I grew up with boats.

I found it to be very good reading and about the best instructions for
splicing, particularly braided rope, I've come across.

Oh yes. And I have made some braided eye splices to make a nylon rope
handrail for the basement stairs, which are too narrow for a
traditional handrail. Just like on a boat. Used marine hardware for
the attachment points as well, for the guaranteed strength (real
full-penetration welds, not slapdash partial resistance butt welds),
with the hardware screwed directly to the studs through the wallboard.


Joe Gwinn