Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years,
and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. I feel that the item was defective as it did not work out of a sealed antistatic envelope, and they should either give me a credit, a replacement, or a refund. It was about $40. Steve |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On Friday, November 2, 2012 11:28:44 AM UTC-5, Steve B wrote:
I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. I feel that the item was defective as it did not work out of a sealed antistatic envelope, and they should either give me a credit, a replacement, or a refund. It was about $40. Steve You are right that it was defective. Buying cheap Chinese junk, is itself, a defective strategy. Expecting an unlimited warranty until you are ready to use something is not as reasonable as you hoped it would sound. You spend cheap, you get cheap service. Lesson learned. |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"Cross-Slide" wrote in message ... On Friday, November 2, 2012 11:28:44 AM UTC-5, Steve B wrote: I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. I feel that the item was defective as it did not work out of a sealed antistatic envelope, and they should either give me a credit, a replacement, or a refund. It was about $40. Steve You are right that it was defective. Buying cheap Chinese junk, is itself, a defective strategy. Expecting an unlimited warranty until you are ready to use something is not as reasonable as you hoped it would sound. You spend cheap, you get cheap service. Lesson learned. The tach and my Northern Catalog have been sent back with a note that both are worthless to me now. Steve |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On 11/2/2012 11:29 AM, Steve B wrote:
I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. .... I've not bought anything from Northern in at least 5 years and I'm still on the hardcopy catalog mailing list, so that's not particularly exclusive company... While unfortunate that it didn't function, after "several" years before being used, I certainly don't feel they've much obligation on a specific product. My opinion? Chalk it up and go on...and remember to check stuff out when get it from now on. -- |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"dpb" wrote in message ... On 11/2/2012 11:29 AM, Steve B wrote: I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. ... I've not bought anything from Northern in at least 5 years and I'm still on the hardcopy catalog mailing list, so that's not particularly exclusive company... While unfortunate that it didn't function, after "several" years before being used, I certainly don't feel they've much obligation on a specific product. My opinion? Chalk it up and go on...and remember to check stuff out when get it from now on. Comments noted, but already place in policy as of yesterday. Steve |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On Friday, November 2, 2012 11:28:44 AM UTC-5, Steve B wrote:
I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. I feel that the item was defective as it did not work out of a sealed antistatic envelope, and they should either give me a credit, a replacement, or a refund. It was about $40. Steve Did you speak to the store manager? If it was still a current product, I can't imagine a reasonable person making a "policy" exchange on a low-cost item like that. But the counter clerk can't make that call. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
I know you have already mailed it back to them but you asked for opinions.
I think most people expect that a retail warranty period begins at the time of sale. Many companies that sell to oem's follow the same policy - I do a fair bit of the purchasing at work and we've bought electronic modules that sat on our shelf for a few months before we built them into a product, and then had them fail more than one year after our purchase but much less than a year after our sale to a retail customer. Most of the time we have to eat it, our suppliers say their one year warranty starts at the time of their sale to us, not our retail sale to an end user. Some suppliers will cover them, and we highly value our relationship with those vendors :-), but the majority don't. The purchase contract on a large piece of lab equipment when I was in college explicitly stated that the warranty started on the date we accepted that the equipment met all performance specs, and spelled out some number of days after our physical receipt of the box that we had to test the unit and accept or return it. Anyway, you asked for opinions :-). ----- Regards, Carl Ijames "Steve B" wrote in message ... I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. I feel that the item was defective as it did not work out of a sealed antistatic envelope, and they should either give me a credit, a replacement, or a refund. It was about $40. Steve |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"Rex" wrote Did you speak to the store manager? If it was still a current product, I can't imagine a reasonable person making a "policy" exchange on a low-cost item like that. But the counter clerk can't make that call. It was Northern Tools. That is a mail order catalog. I sent it to the return department's e mail address. Steve |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"Carl Ijames" wrote in message ... I know you have already mailed it back to them but you asked for opinions. I think most people expect that a retail warranty period begins at the time of sale. Many companies that sell to oem's follow the same policy - I do a fair bit of the purchasing at work and we've bought electronic modules that sat on our shelf for a few months before we built them into a product, and then had them fail more than one year after our purchase but much less than a year after our sale to a retail customer. Most of the time we have to eat it, our suppliers say their one year warranty starts at the time of their sale to us, not our retail sale to an end user. Some suppliers will cover them, and we highly value our relationship with those vendors :-), but the majority don't. The purchase contract on a large piece of lab equipment when I was in college explicitly stated that the warranty started on the date we accepted that the equipment met all performance specs, and spelled out some number of days after our physical receipt of the box that we had to test the unit and accept or return it. Anyway, you asked for opinions :-). ----- Regards, Carl Ijames "Steve B" wrote in message ... I bought a tachometer from Northern Tools. It sat in a box for a few years, and was never connected. I then connected it, and got nothing. I contacted them, and they said that after a year, they would make no adjustment. If the device did not work the first time out of the sealed box, I feel it was defective, and they should replace defective goods. I have bought things from them, and enough to the level that they send me a hard cover catalog. What would you do, and what is your opinion of this situation. I feel that the item was defective as it did not work out of a sealed antistatic envelope, and they should either give me a credit, a replacement, or a refund. It was about $40. Steve My whole case is that this is a circuit board. It had never been connected. I do not know what the shelf life is for it. But it failed to operate first thing out of the box. That would compare to me, at least, to be like any tool that fails to perform on the first use no matter how long it sat on the bench. Four years in a sealed box should be within the shelf life of the item. Steve |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
Steve B wrote: My whole case is that this is a circuit board. It had never been connected. I do not know what the shelf life is for it. But it failed to operate first thing out of the box. That would compare to me, at least, to be like any tool that fails to perform on the first use no matter how long it sat on the bench. Four years in a sealed box should be within the shelf life of the item. Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:18:31 -0400, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Steve B wrote: My whole case is that this is a circuit board. It had never been connected. I do not know what the shelf life is for it. But it failed to operate first thing out of the box. That would compare to me, at least, to be like any tool that fails to perform on the first use no matter how long it sat on the bench. Four years in a sealed box should be within the shelf life of the item. Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. Takes a lot less than 4 years to spend $40 too, even in China. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:18:31 -0400, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Steve B wrote: My whole case is that this is a circuit board. It had never been connected. I do not know what the shelf life is for it. But it failed to operate first thing out of the box. That would compare to me, at least, to be like any tool that fails to perform on the first use no matter how long it sat on the bench. Four years in a sealed box should be within the shelf life of the item. Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. Takes a lot less than 4 years to spend $40 too, even in China. Takes less than three minutes at the grocery store.. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
Steve B, my opinion is that while you are legitimately disappointed
with the product, and to look for a better source in the future, asking a manufacturer to take an item back after several years, is asking too much. i |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On 2012-11-03, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Steve B wrote: My whole case is that this is a circuit board. It had never been connected. I do not know what the shelf life is for it. But it failed to operate first thing out of the box. That would compare to me, at least, to be like any tool that fails to perform on the first use no matter how long it sat on the bench. Four years in a sealed box should be within the shelf life of the item. Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. Have a look at the paper 2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf to be found at http://nepp.nasa.gove/WHISKER/reference/tech_papers/2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf PDF page 41 contains the first photo of whiskers on a PCB. And page 42 shows whiskers shorting a multi-pin connector. Page 46 shows whiskers bridging traces on a PC board. This also explains the "unintended acceleration" problem in cars with computers monitoring the accelerator position. In particular -- look at page 57 through 59 to see that documented. The next page documents potential failures of pacemakers caused by the whiskers. Since the circuit board has failed, and is officially outside warranty, you have nothing to lose by trying to clean it of potential whiskers. Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"Ignoramus24757" wrote in message ... Steve B, my opinion is that while you are legitimately disappointed with the product, and to look for a better source in the future, asking a manufacturer to take an item back after several years, is asking too much. i Well, it's how you keep or lose a customer, to me. YMM(and probably does)V. Steve |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2012-11-03, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Steve B wrote: My whole case is that this is a circuit board. It had never been connected. I do not know what the shelf life is for it. But it failed to operate first thing out of the box. That would compare to me, at least, to be like any tool that fails to perform on the first use no matter how long it sat on the bench. Four years in a sealed box should be within the shelf life of the item. Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. Have a look at the paper 2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf to be found at http://nepp.nasa.gove/WHISKER/reference/tech_papers/2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf PDF page 41 contains the first photo of whiskers on a PCB. And page 42 shows whiskers shorting a multi-pin connector. Page 46 shows whiskers bridging traces on a PC board. This also explains the "unintended acceleration" problem in cars with computers monitoring the accelerator position. In particular -- look at page 57 through 59 to see that documented. The next page documents potential failures of pacemakers caused by the whiskers. Since the circuit board has failed, and is officially outside warranty, you have nothing to lose by trying to clean it of potential whiskers. Don't you find it interesting that military, aerospace & medical are exempt from using lead free solder? |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On 2012-11-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2012-11-03, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. Have a look at the paper 2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf to be found at http://nepp.nasa.gove/WHISKER/reference/tech_papers/2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf [ ... ] This also explains the "unintended acceleration" problem in cars with computers monitoring the accelerator position. In particular -- look at page 57 through 59 to see that documented. The next page documents potential failures of pacemakers caused by the whiskers. [ ... ] Don't you find it interesting that military, aerospace & medical are exempt from using lead free solder? Personally -- I find it quite reassuring. (Except for that batch of pacemakers which had to be recalled in the medical category. :-) The problem is that components without lead free solder are getting harder and harder to find -- unless you purchase in really massive quantities and thus have leverage over the manufacturer. But I also consider the whiskers in the speed pot in the Toyotas (and likely other "fly by wire" cars as well) can be similarly life-threatening. Not just to the driver of the car involved and his passengers, but to others sharing the road. I'm glad that the Nissan Cube which is my most recent auto -- and my only "fly by wire" one -- has a way to force the engine to shut down at speed. Either hold the "start" button down for over three seconds, or poke it several time in quick succession. I hope that this will get past the usual whisker induced catatonia. At least whiskers across the "start" switch should force a shutdown. :-) And yes -- I *did* experience a floor-mat induced runaway accelerator -- in a Datsun 240Z that a co-worker was buying and which had problems with the SU carbs, which I was familiar with from the MGAs which I owned and drove. At least that had both a clutch (to allow me to uncouple the engine a bit) and a true ignition switch, to allow me to shut down the engine. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2012-11-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2012-11-03, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Not with lead free solder. Tin whiskers can grow a lot faster than four years. Have a look at the paper 2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf to be found at http://nepp.nasa.gove/WHISKER/reference/tech_papers/2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf [ ... ] This also explains the "unintended acceleration" problem in cars with computers monitoring the accelerator position. In particular -- look at page 57 through 59 to see that documented. The next page documents potential failures of pacemakers caused by the whiskers. [ ... ] Don't you find it interesting that military, aerospace & medical are exempt from using lead free solder? Personally -- I find it quite reassuring. (Except for that batch of pacemakers which had to be recalled in the medical category. :-) The problem is that components without lead free solder are getting harder and harder to find -- unless you purchase in really massive quantities and thus have leverage over the manufacturer. But I also consider the whiskers in the speed pot in the Toyotas (and likely other "fly by wire" cars as well) can be similarly life-threatening. Not just to the driver of the car involved and his passengers, but to others sharing the road. I'm glad that the Nissan Cube which is my most recent auto -- and my only "fly by wire" one -- has a way to force the engine to shut down at speed. Either hold the "start" button down for over three seconds, or poke it several time in quick succession. I hope that this will get past the usual whisker induced catatonia. At least whiskers across the "start" switch should force a shutdown. :-) And yes -- I *did* experience a floor-mat induced runaway accelerator -- in a Datsun 240Z that a co-worker was buying and which had problems with the SU carbs, which I was familiar with from the MGAs which I owned and drove. At least that had both a clutch (to allow me to uncouple the engine a bit) and a true ignition switch, to allow me to shut down the engine. :-) There is a seperate industry that cleans up & replates new components for real solder. It adds a lot to the component costs for hi rel, exempt applications. |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 21:01:54 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Don't you find it interesting that military, aerospace & medical are exempt from using lead free solder? Don't you find it interesting that politicans and campaigners are exempt from the Do Not Call list? They can call your number all day and all night with complete immunity, the CSing MFing SOBs. Don't you find it interesting that CONgresscritters are exempt from Medicare and have an extremly more expensive and sophisticated care package than the rest of the country? And don't get me started on their retirement packages... -- The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been. -- Madeleine L'Engle |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Opinions
Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 21:01:54 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Don't you find it interesting that military, aerospace & medical are exempt from using lead free solder? Don't you find it interesting that politicans and campaigners are exempt from the Do Not Call list? They can call your number all day and all night with complete immunity, the CSing MFing SOBs. Stop answering the phone, and let it go to voicemail, or your answering machine till the election is over. OTOH, what other time would you get robocalls from people like Clint Eastwood, Mike Huckabe or famous old singers telling you why you shouldn't vote for an empty chair? Don't you find it interesting that CONgresscritters are exempt from Medicare and have an extremly more expensive and sophisticated care package than the rest of the country? they claim to serve their country, so they should be under the care of military doctors. If one is close enough, and has time to see them. If not? Tough luck! And don't get me started on their retirement packages... Should be tied to military retirement levels, for the reason given above. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
opinions | Woodworking | |||
A/C opinions? | Home Repair | |||
Opinions? | Woodworking | |||
Opinions? | Metalworking | |||
Opinions please | UK diy |