I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet casting,
but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying from
Berry and Pats)

You've probably already thought about this, but figure out the total
weight of your 10K worth of bullets, figure out how much you'll need to
spend on the lead, decide on what seems to be a reasonable wastage figure
(10%? 5%?), then figure out if you're saving anything right there. If
not, then you know why prices are high, and you know the value of
proceeding.

Figure out how much you want/don't want the EPA breathing down your neck
because you're using Oh So Terrible Toxic Lead while you're at it.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:52:34 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet casting,
but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying from
Berry and Pats)

You've probably already thought about this, but figure out the total
weight of your 10K worth of bullets, figure out how much you'll need to
spend on the lead, decide on what seems to be a reasonable wastage figure
(10%? 5%?), then figure out if you're saving anything right there. If
not, then you know why prices are high, and you know the value of
proceeding.

Figure out how much you want/don't want the EPA breathing down your neck
because you're using Oh So Terrible Toxic Lead while you're at it.

thaought I'd get way more interest in this topic. guess i should've
said I'm doing this because bamma is runing everything and has to be
stoppedVBG

Seriously, I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
from what little i've read looks like (expensive) linotype is the
preferred source.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:52:34 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet casting,
but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying from
Berry and Pats)

You've probably already thought about this, but figure out the total
weight of your 10K worth of bullets, figure out how much you'll need to
spend on the lead, decide on what seems to be a reasonable wastage figure
(10%? 5%?), then figure out if you're saving anything right there. If
not, then you know why prices are high, and you know the value of
proceeding.

Figure out how much you want/don't want the EPA breathing down your neck
because you're using Oh So Terrible Toxic Lead while you're at it.

thaought I'd get way more interest in this topic. guess i should've
said I'm doing this because bamma is runing everything and has to be
stoppedVBG

Seriously, I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
from what little i've read looks like (expensive) linotype is the
preferred source.

Karl

The forklift battery will certainly give you a good deal of basic lead,
but I think you will need to find a source for the proper alloying
metals to get the hardness and whatnot for basic lead bullets. If you
perhaps get fancy and make jacketed bullets the lead alloy is probably
less important. I hear soft copper tubing works well for jackets.

As for commercial ammo prices, as far as I've seen they have been pretty
stable for the past year or two after the shortage ended. Everyone likes
to hype up Obummer as the reason for higher ammo prices, but in reality
the brass, copper and lead metals markets have much more to do with it.

On 9/30/2012 5:52 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:

thaought I'd get way more interest in this topic. guess i should've
said I'm doing this because bamma is runing everything and has to be
stoppedVBG

Seriously, I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
from what little i've read looks like (expensive) linotype is the
preferred source.

Karl

You might get better response at rec.guns.

David

On 9/30/2012 6:52 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:
... I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
...

Years ago I was in the market for a couple 'hundred pounds of lead and
figured that I could get it from the old batteries that are left at the
dump. I took one home, cut it up, and found this weird spongy stuff
inside. Undaunted, I put the spongy stuff in a crucible and melted it.
The yield was pathetic! Mostly a heap of dross.

A total waste of effort.

YMMV, maybe
Bob

On 2012-10-01, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 9/30/2012 6:52 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:
... I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
...

Years ago I was in the market for a couple 'hundred pounds of lead and
figured that I could get it from the old batteries that are left at the
dump. I took one home, cut it up, and found this weird spongy stuff
inside. Undaunted, I put the spongy stuff in a crucible and melted it.
The yield was pathetic! Mostly a heap of dross.

I melted some car batteies when I was a 13 year old kid in Russia, and
got a lot of lead out of them.

By the way, it probably was a big mistake and did not help improve my health

i

A total waste of effort.

YMMV, maybe
Bob

On Sep 30, 9:12*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Years ago I was in the market for a couple 'hundred pounds of lead and
figured that I could get it from the old batteries that are left at the
dump. *I took one home, cut it up, and found this weird spongy stuff
inside. *Undaunted, I put the spongy stuff in a crucible and melted it.
* The yield was pathetic! *Mostly a heap of dross.

A total waste of effort.

YMMV, maybe
Bob

When the battery is discharged both sets of plates are lead sulfate.
When charged one plate is lead and the other is lead oxide. At least
that is what Wiki says.


Dan

Good batteries are useful. Bad ones are smelly sulfur.

Member of a range ? Will the range let you pick lead ?

Martin

On 9/30/2012 8:51 PM, wrote:
On Sep 30, 9:12 pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Years ago I was in the market for a couple 'hundred pounds of lead and
figured that I could get it from the old batteries that are left at the
dump. I took one home, cut it up, and found this weird spongy stuff
inside. Undaunted, I put the spongy stuff in a crucible and melted it.
The yield was pathetic! Mostly a heap of dross.

A total waste of effort.

YMMV, maybe
Bob

When the battery is discharged both sets of plates are lead sulfate.
When charged one plate is lead and the other is lead oxide. At least
that is what Wiki says.


Dan

On 9/30/2012 6:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl


DO NOT USE BATTERY LEAD!!!!!!!!!

Here's your shopping list:
__________________________________________________ ___
From midwayusa.com:

Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL356-124-2R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356
Diameter) 124 Grain Tumble Lube 2 Ogive Radius
Product #: 476412 $39.49

Lee Commercial Bullet Mold Handles for 6-Cavity Lee Bullet Molds
Product #: 117892 $11.49 on sale

Lee Pro 4 20 Lb Furnace 110 Volt
Product #: 645810 $58.49

Frankford Arsenal CleanCast Lead Fluxing Compound 1 lb
Product #: 593033 $9.99

Lee Alox Bullet Lube 4 oz Liquid
Product #: 466811 $5.89

Lee "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, Revised" Reloading Manual
Product #: 639649 $18.29

Lee 4-Cavity Ingot Mold with Handle
Product #: 361222 $9.99 on sale

TOTAL:$153.63 plus shipping
__________________________________________________ __

From eBay:

Lead ingots made from wheel weights will cost about $65.00 delivered for
50 pounds Or, find a friendly tire shop.
__________________________________________________ _______

In addition you will need some bench space, a 5 gallon bucket full of
cold water, a tin can to put the dross in, a big spoon or ladle, and a
few other things you already have. Great book, read it!

Grand total: $218.63 plus some freight = 2,282 124 gr bullets at about
$0.095 each. After the initial investment all bullets will cost $0.028 each

Let me know how I can help.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 22:52:55 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 9/30/2012 6:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl


DO NOT USE BATTERY LEAD!!!!!!!!!

Here's your shopping list:
_________________________________________________ ____
From midwayusa.com:

Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL356-124-2R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356
Diameter) 124 Grain Tumble Lube 2 Ogive Radius
Product #: 476412 $39.49

Lee Commercial Bullet Mold Handles for 6-Cavity Lee Bullet Molds
Product #: 117892 $11.49 on sale

Lee Pro 4 20 Lb Furnace 110 Volt
Product #: 645810 $58.49

Frankford Arsenal CleanCast Lead Fluxing Compound 1 lb
Product #: 593033 $9.99

Lee Alox Bullet Lube 4 oz Liquid
Product #: 466811 $5.89

Lee "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, Revised" Reloading Manual
Product #: 639649 $18.29

Lee 4-Cavity Ingot Mold with Handle
Product #: 361222 $9.99 on sale

TOTAL:$153.63 plus shipping
_________________________________________________ ___

From eBay:

Lead ingots made from wheel weights will cost about $65.00 delivered for
50 pounds Or, find a friendly tire shop.
_________________________________________________ ________

In addition you will need some bench space, a 5 gallon bucket full of
cold water, a tin can to put the dross in, a big spoon or ladle, and a
few other things you already have. Great book, read it!

Grand total: $218.63 plus some freight = 2,282 124 gr bullets at about
$0.095 each. After the initial investment all bullets will cost $0.028 each

Let me know how I can help.


thanks Tom,

Don't i need a sizing die?

To run .308, the bullets need to be hard, they reference linotype or
alloying the wheel weights. Do you know about this?

Is working in front of a fan enough to keep the lead fumes safely
away?

Karl

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl

1. Good supply of wheel weights and in the case of the MGs...a fair
supply of Linotype alloy

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm#commonalloys

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm


2. a natural gas source or a 20lb bottle of propane

3. Old gas burner..the bigger the better

4. Make it yourself bottom pour pot capable of handling a minimum of
20 lbs of molten lead alloy

5. a double or quad cavity mold for each bullet you intend to cast,
(with handles)

6 bullet sizing/lubricator. In the case of many bullets at a time..Id
suggest a Star luber. Else Lyman/RCBS etc etc

7.Dies for each caliber for the luber

Lubricant. For the MGs..Id strongly recommend Hard lubes and a heater
to mount your luber/sizer on.

8. Lots of time, or a neighbor kid you can pay cheap to sit and cast
bullets.

Not much else. Oh..a neck expander die to put a small bell (very
small) on the case mouths..but that can be made from a threaded rod on
a lathe

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:52:04 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:52:34 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet casting,
but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying from
Berry and Pats)

You've probably already thought about this, but figure out the total
weight of your 10K worth of bullets, figure out how much you'll need to
spend on the lead, decide on what seems to be a reasonable wastage figure
(10%? 5%?), then figure out if you're saving anything right there. If
not, then you know why prices are high, and you know the value of
proceeding.

Figure out how much you want/don't want the EPA breathing down your neck
because you're using Oh So Terrible Toxic Lead while you're at it.

thaought I'd get way more interest in this topic. guess i should've
said I'm doing this because bamma is runing everything and has to be
stoppedVBG

Seriously, I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
from what little i've read looks like (expensive) linotype is the
preferred source.

Karl

Personally...Id stay away from battery lead. But then..forklift
batteries are far bigger than automotive batteries

Wheel weights are much better btw..they come close enough to #2 alloy
as is.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On 10/1/2012 12:19 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Don't i need a sizing die?

To run .308, the bullets need to be hard, they reference linotype or
alloying the wheel weights. Do you know about this?

Is working in front of a fan enough to keep the lead fumes safely
away?

Karl


With the Lee molds you usually don't need to size, especially for
pistol. Lee makes a good cheap set-up for sizing if needed. I like
tumble lube, others don't. Linotype dropped in cold water will be
about the hardest you can get. You will have to keep your rifle loads
lower than jacketed. Wheel weights are just fine for pistols. If the
boolit is too hard it won't obturate and it'll lead the barrel, too soft
and it leads the barrel. Same with too fast and too slow. But, once
your load is dialed in you are in One-Hole City! WAY better than
factory and only $2.50 a box of 50. (if you get free wheel weights)

I have an exhaust fan in my laundry room that I think is sufficient. I
get my blood-lead levels checked twice a year, is was high once but is
back to normal just by using latex gloves. I cast and shoot 1k/month.

Get the book first, it's a cheap investment and is a great first loading
book, you WILL buy a couple more over time.

Look at the forum:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
Absolutely EVERYTHING about casting is here.

On 10/1/2012 12:55 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl

1. Good supply of wheel weights and in the case of the MGs...a fair
supply of Linotype alloy

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm#commonalloys

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm


2. a natural gas source or a 20lb bottle of propane

3. Old gas burner..the bigger the better

4. Make it yourself bottom pour pot capable of handling a minimum of
20 lbs of molten lead alloy

5. a double or quad cavity mold for each bullet you intend to cast,
(with handles)

6 bullet sizing/lubricator. In the case of many bullets at a time..Id
suggest a Star luber. Else Lyman/RCBS etc etc

7.Dies for each caliber for the luber

Lubricant. For the MGs..Id strongly recommend Hard lubes and a heater
to mount your luber/sizer on.

8. Lots of time, or a neighbor kid you can pay cheap to sit and cast
bullets.

Not much else. Oh..a neck expander die to put a small bell (very
small) on the case mouths..but that can be made from a threaded rod on
a lathe

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


We got us another convert to the silver stream!

(look at my recommendations, I went a slightly different route.)

But for GOD'S sake, don't let him **** with batteries!

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 01:06:22 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/1/2012 12:55 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl

1. Good supply of wheel weights and in the case of the MGs...a fair
supply of Linotype alloy

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm#commonalloys

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm


2. a natural gas source or a 20lb bottle of propane

3. Old gas burner..the bigger the better

4. Make it yourself bottom pour pot capable of handling a minimum of
20 lbs of molten lead alloy

5. a double or quad cavity mold for each bullet you intend to cast,
(with handles)

6 bullet sizing/lubricator. In the case of many bullets at a time..Id
suggest a Star luber. Else Lyman/RCBS etc etc

7.Dies for each caliber for the luber

Lubricant. For the MGs..Id strongly recommend Hard lubes and a heater
to mount your luber/sizer on.

8. Lots of time, or a neighbor kid you can pay cheap to sit and cast
bullets.

Not much else. Oh..a neck expander die to put a small bell (very
small) on the case mouths..but that can be made from a threaded rod on
a lathe

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


We got us another convert to the silver stream!

(look at my recommendations, I went a slightly different route.)

But for GOD'S sake, don't let him **** with batteries!

Indeed. A buddy of mine snagged some 2000 lbs of old batteries,
busted them up with sledge hammers, remelted the lead..and got about
25lbs of lead out of the deal....with a couple wheelbarrows of
nasty..nasty slag to deal with.

I warned him..but no..he wouldnt listen....shrug.


Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

Is working in front of a fan enough to keep the lead fumes safely
away?

It's counter-intuitive, but don't have the fan behind you, or even behind
at an angle. Have it blow R-L or L-R across your pot.

As far as concerns "lead fumes" -- WHAT lead fumes? At correct casting
temperatures, no significant or harmful amount of anything lead-bearing
will get into the air that you don't throw into the air with your tools.

The flux fumes may or may not be injurious, depending upon what you use.

Chronic breathing of even simple animal grease smoke ain't all that good
for you.

LLoyd

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 05:47:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

Is working in front of a fan enough to keep the lead fumes safely
away?

It's counter-intuitive, but don't have the fan behind you, or even behind
at an angle. Have it blow R-L or L-R across your pot.

As far as concerns "lead fumes" -- WHAT lead fumes? At correct casting
temperatures, no significant or harmful amount of anything lead-bearing
will get into the air that you don't throw into the air with your tools.

The flux fumes may or may not be injurious, depending upon what you use.

Chronic breathing of even simple animal grease smoke ain't all that good
for you.

LLoyd

While I do most of my major bullet metal preparation outdoors...I do
cast indoors. I simply installed a bathroom fart fan in a piece of
paneling that I place in a window behind the casting area and turn it
on. Sucks any fumes and toxins right outdoors. And helps keep a bit
of a breeze blowing around me. Not much of one..but enough to help
keep me cool(er)

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 05:47:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

As far as concerns "lead fumes" -- WHAT lead fumes? At correct
casting temperatures, no significant or harmful amount of anything
lead-bearing will get into the air that you don't throw into the air
with your tools.

I really should have added, and didn't, that it's skin contact and
absorption through ingesting lead residues that is your real hazard when
casting.

Unless you were to convert lead into a gas or some super-fine aerosol
that will float in air (don't know how you'd do that, actually), there
are no "lead fumes". But flux fumes? Lotsa!

LLoyd

Gunner on Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:52:55 -0700 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


We got us another convert to the silver stream!

(look at my recommendations, I went a slightly different route.)

But for GOD'S sake, don't let him **** with batteries!

Indeed. A buddy of mine snagged some 2000 lbs of old batteries,
busted them up with sledge hammers, remelted the lead..and got about
25lbs of lead out of the deal....with a couple wheelbarrows of
nasty..nasty slag to deal with.

Dang - that lead "slag" should be refinable. - I mean there is a
several hundred pounds of material there. It can't all be plastic
case and the like.

I warned him..but no..he wouldnt listen....shrug.

I'm sure there is a way to process the lead in batteries - right.
(I suspect that you need to completely neutralize the acid, and clean
out the non-lead compounds. Both of which may require a level of
chemical processing beyond the back yard salvager.)

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

I'm sure there is a way to process the lead in batteries - right.
(I suspect that you need to completely neutralize the acid, and clean
out the non-lead compounds. Both of which may require a level of
chemical processing beyond the back yard salvager.)


Problem is, there's so much "unwantium" in batteries that you can't
smelt, that it will might make up 75% of the weight or better.

Cadmium compounds (not good!), calcium compounds (not so bad), lead
sulfide and oxide which aren't likely to reduce at the temperatures you
have available, and other "stuff" like glass insulator mats... About the
only meltable lead is the posts, connector straps, and those flimsy
"screens" of lead that hold all the other smeared-in pastes of compounds
they make the electrodes from.

Lead compounds are heavy, too... so it makes it appear you've got a
treasure-trove, when what you have is a recycling mess!

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Mon, 01 Oct
2012 15:33:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

I'm sure there is a way to process the lead in batteries - right.
(I suspect that you need to completely neutralize the acid, and clean
out the non-lead compounds. Both of which may require a level of
chemical processing beyond the back yard salvager.)


Problem is, there's so much "unwantium" in batteries that you can't
smelt, that it will might make up 75% of the weight or better.

Cadmium compounds (not good!), calcium compounds (not so bad), lead
sulfide and oxide which aren't likely to reduce at the temperatures you
have available, and other "stuff" like glass insulator mats... About the
only meltable lead is the posts, connector straps, and those flimsy
"screens" of lead that hold all the other smeared-in pastes of compounds
they make the electrodes from.

Lead compounds are heavy, too... so it makes it appear you've got a
treasure-trove, when what you have is a recycling mess!

Oh -boogers.



LLoyd
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

On 10/1/2012 4:00 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 05:47:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

As far as concerns "lead fumes" -- WHAT lead fumes? At correct
casting temperatures, no significant or harmful amount of anything
lead-bearing will get into the air that you don't throw into the air
with your tools.

I really should have added, and didn't, that it's skin contact and
absorption through ingesting lead residues that is your real hazard when
casting.

Unless you were to convert lead into a gas or some super-fine aerosol
that will float in air (don't know how you'd do that, actually), there
are no "lead fumes". But flux fumes? Lotsa!

LLoyd



It's the lead oxides and the dross that floats to the top that's the
nasty. It's water soluble and can be absorbed through the skin. Doc
told me to wear gloves.

Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks fired this volley in news:g_6dnQ-
:


It's the lead oxides and the dross that floats to the top that's the
nasty. It's water soluble and can be absorbed through the skin. Doc
told me to wear gloves.

Yup, but I'll bet he didn't warn you of inhalation dangers.

Lloyd

On Sep 30, 4:55*pm, Karl Townsend
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:52:34 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:





On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet casting,
but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying from
Berry and Pats)

You've probably already thought about this, but figure out the total
weight of your 10K worth of bullets, figure out how much you'll need to
spend on the lead, decide on what seems to be a reasonable wastage figure
(10%? *5%?), then figure out if you're saving anything right there. *If
not, then you know why prices are high, and you know the value of
proceeding.

Figure out how much you want/don't want the EPA breathing down your neck
because you're using Oh So Terrible Toxic Lead while you're at it.

thaought I'd get way more interest in this topic. guess i should've
said I'm doing this because bamma is runing everything and has to be
stoppedVBG

Seriously, I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
from what little i've read looks like (expensive) linotype is the
preferred source.

Karl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nope, a lead acid battery is mostly oxide of one sort or another, only
the connectors are bulk lead and they make those as short as they
can. You are NOT going to reduce lead oxides with anything you've got
in your basement or garage. I've got several tons of wheel weights
for pistol bullets along with other lead-based scrap. Sometimes you
can make deals with tire shops, sometimes scrapyards will sell them.
You DO have to be careful with what you put in the pot, some wheel
weights are zinc and just one small one will spoil a whole batch of
bullet metal. Makes it so they won't cast. One commercial caster I
knew had that happen to him, he made up some big cannonball sinkers
for the open-sea fishing crowd to get rid of the potfull. Dropped one
and it chipped the concrete floor. Said if they didn't get the
sinkers back, they were better off.

Now as to your intent to run them through automatic weapons, you can't
run them at the same velocity as service ammo, even gas checks
wouldn't let you do that. Probably won't function the gun at the
velocity you'll have to use to keep from leading up. With both guns,
the boosters are going to get a nice bath of lead vapor, eventually
you get to remove it. I'd consider that idea a non-starter. Now for
pistols, lever guns and bolt actions, lead bullets will work fine if
you load within the limitations.

Stan

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Mon, 01 Oct
2012 15:33:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

I'm sure there is a way to process the lead in batteries - right.
(I suspect that you need to completely neutralize the acid, and clean
out the non-lead compounds. Both of which may require a level of
chemical processing beyond the back yard salvager.)


Problem is, there's so much "unwantium" in batteries that you can't
smelt, that it will might make up 75% of the weight or better.

Cadmium compounds (not good!), calcium compounds (not so bad), lead
sulfide and oxide which aren't likely to reduce at the temperatures you
have available, and other "stuff" like glass insulator mats... About the
only meltable lead is the posts, connector straps, and those flimsy
"screens" of lead that hold all the other smeared-in pastes of compounds
they make the electrodes from.

Lead compounds are heavy, too... so it makes it appear you've got a
treasure-trove, when what you have is a recycling mess!

Oh -boogers.

Leave the battery recycling to the third world 8 year olds, they're the
experts :/

Now as to your intent to run them through automatic weapons, you can't
run them at the same velocity as service ammo, even gas checks
wouldn't let you do that. Probably won't function the gun at the
velocity you'll have to use to keep from leading up. With both guns,
the boosters are going to get a nice bath of lead vapor, eventually
you get to remove it. I'd consider that idea a non-starter. Now for
pistols, lever guns and bolt actions, lead bullets will work fine if
you load within the limitations.

Stan

I don't shoot enough pistol ammo to really make this pay. A fella on
the Weapons Guild forum claims great success using 168 grain cast .308
boolits with a gas check in his 1919. Its a reduced powder load, don't
remember exact specs without pulling up the thread. I think I'd best
look for independant confirmation before moving forward.

Karl

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:11:17 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:


Now as to your intent to run them through automatic weapons, you can't
run them at the same velocity as service ammo, even gas checks
wouldn't let you do that. Probably won't function the gun at the
velocity you'll have to use to keep from leading up. With both guns,
the boosters are going to get a nice bath of lead vapor, eventually
you get to remove it. I'd consider that idea a non-starter. Now for
pistols, lever guns and bolt actions, lead bullets will work fine if
you load within the limitations.

Stan

I don't shoot enough pistol ammo to really make this pay. A fella on
the Weapons Guild forum claims great success using 168 grain cast .308
boolits with a gas check in his 1919. Its a reduced powder load, don't
remember exact specs without pulling up the thread. I think I'd best
look for independant confirmation before moving forward.

Karl

Its been years..but as I recall..thats a modified recoil cycled weapon
isnt it? You will probably have to reduce the strength of the action
springs as the firing pulse will not have anywhere near the recoil
energy

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks fired this volley in news:yPCdnSwAf9gK2
:

Besides, at the temps I use it's not much of an issue.

Yes, that was the point I made earlier. At near-boiling, lead can do some
weird things in air, but not at casting temps.

LLoyd

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 01:49:57 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:11:17 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:


Now as to your intent to run them through automatic weapons, you can't
run them at the same velocity as service ammo, even gas checks
wouldn't let you do that. Probably won't function the gun at the
velocity you'll have to use to keep from leading up. With both guns,
the boosters are going to get a nice bath of lead vapor, eventually
you get to remove it. I'd consider that idea a non-starter. Now for
pistols, lever guns and bolt actions, lead bullets will work fine if
you load within the limitations.

Stan

I don't shoot enough pistol ammo to really make this pay. A fella on
the Weapons Guild forum claims great success using 168 grain cast .308
boolits with a gas check in his 1919. Its a reduced powder load, don't
remember exact specs without pulling up the thread. I think I'd best
look for independant confirmation before moving forward.

Karl

Its been years..but as I recall..thats a modified recoil cycled weapon
isnt it? You will probably have to reduce the strength of the action
springs as the firing pulse will not have anywhere near the recoil
energy

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

It has a booster on the end to adjust recoil. If needed I'd make one
with a smaller ID and change boosters for lead. If i buy a mold, do
you know somebody that would cast up a few for trial? I've got enough
hobbies, don't want to do this if it don't work, But if it does, I'd
quit flinching on taking it to the range; 500 rounds is typical if I
take it out.

karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

It has a booster on the end to adjust recoil. If needed I'd make one
with a smaller ID and change boosters for lead. If i buy a mold, do
you know somebody that would cast up a few for trial? I've got enough
hobbies, don't want to do this if it don't work, But if it does, I'd
quit flinching on taking it to the range; 500 rounds is typical if I
take it out.

karl

There is a guy on AR15 who shoots a 1919 with cast. Says he has no
problems other than needing to clean the booster more often.

I have shot my Mini (.223) with cast and not had a problem. They are not
tack driving loads but work. Gas checks and lube are a must.


--
Steve W.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Mon, 01 Oct
2012 15:33:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

I'm sure there is a way to process the lead in batteries - right.
(I suspect that you need to completely neutralize the acid, and clean
out the non-lead compounds. Both of which may require a level of
chemical processing beyond the back yard salvager.)


Problem is, there's so much "unwantium" in batteries that you can't
smelt, that it will might make up 75% of the weight or better.

Cadmium compounds (not good!), calcium compounds (not so bad), lead
sulfide and oxide which aren't likely to reduce at the temperatures you
have available, and other "stuff" like glass insulator mats... About the
only meltable lead is the posts, connector straps, and those flimsy
"screens" of lead that hold all the other smeared-in pastes of compounds
they make the electrodes from.

Lead compounds are heavy, too... so it makes it appear you've got a
treasure-trove, when what you have is a recycling mess!

I just had a thought: "non-imaging optical focusing". Aiming a
lot of sunlight at a small spot, raising the temps significantly (~
two to four thousand degrees), doing more than just melting, but
vaporizing. Might work.
And it is solar powered and Green!

pyotr


LLoyd
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

On 9/30/2012 6:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl


I think you won't want to go through what it will take to get your 7.62
to drive tacks with lead. For the cost, I think you will be FAR better
off in both money and TIME by buying jacketed slugs. For $13/100 or
$355/3,000 go he

http://hi-techammo.com/hitech.zkb?ro...1&object-menu6

Pistol ammo is much more cost effective. If you only want 9mm, I'll
cast them for you...we could trade for apples.

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:49:03 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 01:49:57 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:11:17 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:


Now as to your intent to run them through automatic weapons, you can't
run them at the same velocity as service ammo, even gas checks
wouldn't let you do that. Probably won't function the gun at the
velocity you'll have to use to keep from leading up. With both guns,
the boosters are going to get a nice bath of lead vapor, eventually
you get to remove it. I'd consider that idea a non-starter. Now for
pistols, lever guns and bolt actions, lead bullets will work fine if
you load within the limitations.

Stan

I don't shoot enough pistol ammo to really make this pay. A fella on
the Weapons Guild forum claims great success using 168 grain cast .308
boolits with a gas check in his 1919. Its a reduced powder load, don't
remember exact specs without pulling up the thread. I think I'd best
look for independant confirmation before moving forward.

Karl

Its been years..but as I recall..thats a modified recoil cycled weapon
isnt it? You will probably have to reduce the strength of the action
springs as the firing pulse will not have anywhere near the recoil
energy

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

It has a booster on the end to adjust recoil. If needed I'd make one
with a smaller ID and change boosters for lead. If i buy a mold, do
you know somebody that would cast up a few for trial? I've got enough
hobbies, don't want to do this if it don't work, But if it does, I'd
quit flinching on taking it to the range; 500 rounds is typical if I
take it out.

karl

Id cast you some if you would like. Ive got the molds already. Im in
the process of setting up to melt down about a ton of wheelweights
that Ive got stockpiled..so it will be a month or so before I can get
any bullets turned out. Casting/smelting when its 107F out..is not as
much fun as it used to be.

Though casting and sizing 500 bullets might take me even longer when
Im already low on the stuff I normally use.

I can probably send you a hundred or two though.


Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:41:10 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 9/30/2012 6:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.

Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.

What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)

Karl


I think you won't want to go through what it will take to get your 7.62
to drive tacks with lead. For the cost, I think you will be FAR better
off in both money and TIME by buying jacketed slugs. For $13/100 or
$355/3,000 go he

There are better prices out there. Particularly if one can use 149gr
slugs


http://hi-techammo.com/hitech.zkb?ro...1&object-menu6

Pistol ammo is much more cost effective. If you only want 9mm, I'll
cast them for you...we could trade for apples.

Anyone got a "user" Garand they dont need anymore that I could swap
for machinery or Stuff?

Sold my last one a couple years ago when the economy went into the
toilet after the surgery..and Im missing not having one around.


Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

....
Pistol ammo is much more cost effective. If you only want 9mm, I'll
cast them for you...we could trade for apples.

This sounds like one heck on an idea to me. Email sent.

karl