Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure. The
endmills cost $122 each, through MSC's special-order process.

It will be a few weeks before the endmills arrive. The first two
projects will be the stop and the dial indicator holder.

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure. The
endmills cost $122 each, through MSC's special-order process.

It will be a few weeks before the endmills arrive. The first two
projects will be the stop and the dial indicator holder.

Joe Gwinn

Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35 degrees
to cut the angle?

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

MSC doesn't like my Cookies setting.

jsw

On 7/1/2012 21:09, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure.

SNIP


We are in the middle of a heat wave right now. Supposed to be near or
above 90 all week. I'm in Muskegon, hate to be inland, no offshore breeze.


--
Steve Walker
(remove brain when replying)

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure. The
endmills cost $122 each, through MSC's special-order process.

It will be a few weeks before the endmills arrive. The first two
projects will be the stop and the dial indicator holder.

Joe Gwinn

ah..Joe..you dont have a sine plate or a set of angles you can put a
block in your mill vise and set up for a 45' angle, then reverse"

Ive used a set of old drafting triangles for years for this sort of
thing, and then used a regular endmill to cut one side, then the other.
Its not rocket science...but if you have lots and lots of
cash..sure..keep American Industry alive. And thank you for your
service!!

Gunner, who also uses a Logan shaper for this sort of work if the mill
is tied up

Sure, I could do all that. I have the sine bar and the gauge blocks.
But it's a lot of trouble, and the special tool makes sense to me on an
available-time economy basis.

The other problem is that the min distance (which governs the endmill
diameter) is a bit small.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400
Joseph Gwinn wrote:

snip
So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure. The
endmills cost $122 each, through MSC's special-order process.

Hardly frozen lately. Temp just hit 94 deg and it has been hovering
around 90 for over a week now. Suppose to stay that way, maybe get a
bit hotter for the rest of the week, sigh...

It's my mental picture of Michigan (where my Mother came from), and mere
facts will have no effect.


Wasn't familiar with that company so I looked at the website. They are
within spitting distance of the old GM Stamping plant that used to be
on 36th St.

There must be a million such companies up there. In Germany, they would
be called the Mittlestand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure. The
endmills cost $122 each, through MSC's special-order process.

It will be a few weeks before the endmills arrive. The first two
projects will be the stop and the dial indicator holder.

Joe Gwinn

Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35 degrees
to cut the angle?

One can, but it's very slow, with all the setup, and the fact that one
cannot use a big mill because of the 1/4" groove bottom dimension.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

One can, but there is no speed advantage over a straight endmill - the
setup time is the same.


MSC doesn't like my Cookies setting.

It does that to me also. If I just try again, it usually becomes happy.


Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Pete Keillor wrote:

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:32:48 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

MSC doesn't like my Cookies setting.

jsw

Good shaper project, too. That's how I did mine.

http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/_20...arrStopDis.jpg

Looks good. But I no place to keep a shaper. Which is a shame, as they
can be had for small dollars.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:

On 7/1/2012 21:09, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure.

SNIP


We are in the middle of a heat wave right now. Supposed to be near or
above 90 all week. I'm in Muskegon, hate to be inland, no offshore breeze.

You need a real ocean.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

One can, but there is no speed advantage over a straight endmill - the
setup time is the same.



Don't let them razz you too much about buying that cutter, yes there are
lots of other ways to do the job but if it matches your lathe bed and you
take good care of it then it will come in VERY handy over the years if you
ever need to make a steady rest or if you ever want to adapt a old bed
turret from some other lathe onto it etc...

One thing you need to realize, is that the pointy end has no surface speed
and so you want to hog out most of the material first, using a regular
cutter, ALWAYS cuttting a small "relief slot" at the very center of your vee
first..and only cut with one side or the other with your angle
cutter...otherwise, you'll have nothing but problems and you'll probably
even break the very tip off of it before you even finish your first job...

Something that's good to know, is the exact depth of the Vee on your lathe,
this can be a hassle to initially determine, but once you've established it
accurately, there is no end to the special tooling etc that you can make up
to fit your lathe.

The way I do this is with a test block in a mill--first flycut it flat, and
then mill your vee depth to where you think it's close, but just a tad bit
deeper. Then, set it on the lathe bed and check the gap with feeler gages,
using trigonometry or cad to determine exactly how much more material needs
to to be taken off your flycut surface in able to get a perfect fit...it
might take a couple of trys, but once you get there, you can use bluing and
slide your test block on the bed, making sure you have a good ampount of
contact area on both the vee and the flat...

After that, drop a pin in the vee and measure from your flycut surface to
the pin, writing down your pin diameter and height above flat, and save this
info for future reference.

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message news:joegwinn-
...
Sure, I could do all that. I have the sine bar and the gauge
blocks.
But it's a lot of trouble, and the special tool makes sense to me on
an
available-time economy basis.

Joe Gwinn

These make milling angles easy:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Cut the blank longer than the width of the blocks so the vise jaws
will grab the ends. Otherwise the work is difficult to hold down

jsw

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message

Something that's good to know, is the exact depth of the Vee on your
lathe, this can be a hassle to initially determine, but once you've
established it accurately, there is no end to the special tooling
etc that you can make up to fit your lathe.

One of my old books suggests filing a sheet metal template to fit the
cross-section of the ways. Another uses sheet lead, such as flashing,
cut close to shape and pressed onto the ways for the final exact fit.
Then scribe it onto the sheetmetal.

I start with the cardboard from a six pack, scribe and trim it close
and trace it onto the sheetmetal. That works well for fitting
irregular patches into car rust holes too. A couple of magnets hold
the edges flush while I tack weld the patch

jsw

In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message news:joegwinn-
...
Sure, I could do all that. I have the sine bar and the gauge
blocks.
But it's a lot of trouble, and the special tool makes sense to me on
an
available-time economy basis.

Joe Gwinn

These make milling angles easy:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Cut the blank longer than the width of the blocks so the vise jaws
will grab the ends. Otherwise the work is difficult to hold down

Yes, they are a good approach, and I have an adjustable version of the
same, and it would not be difficult to adjust the block to the desired
angle. This will come in handy for one-off jobs, but for the Clausing
V-rail grooves I decided that a specialized tool was worthwhile.

Joe Gwinn


PS: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/toolex/item/857295/ Bought
used for maybe 10% of listed price; don't recall the details. Nor do I
know who sells this in the US.

In article ,
"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

One can, but there is no speed advantage over a straight endmill - the
setup time is the same.



Don't let them razz you too much about buying that cutter, yes there are
lots of other ways to do the job but if it matches your lathe bed and you
take good care of it then it will come in VERY handy over the years if you
ever need to make a steady rest or if you ever want to adapt a old bed
turret from some other lathe onto it etc...

That's my thinking as well. And the endmills are on the way, so the
razzing is ex post facto.


One thing you need to realize, is that the pointy end has no surface speed
and so you want to hog out most of the material first, using a regular
cutter, ALWAYS cuttting a small "relief slot" at the very center of your vee
first..and only cut with one side or the other with your angle
cutter...otherwise, you'll have nothing but problems and you'll probably
even break the very tip off of it before you even finish your first job...

Yes, and I notice that people rough the groove out first, unless they
are using a horizontal mill. If one is scraping, the slot is also
essential.


Something that's good to know, is the exact depth of the Vee on your lathe,
this can be a hassle to initially determine, but once you've established it
accurately, there is no end to the special tooling etc that you can make up
to fit your lathe.

Clausing has published the exact dimensions of the bedway in relation to
the spindle et al, so no experimentation is needed. They also specify
the diameter of the rod to nest in the groove, and how much the nestled
rod must protrude.


The way I do this is with a test block in a mill--first flycut it flat, and
then mill your vee depth to where you think it's close, but just a tad bit
deeper. Then, set it on the lathe bed and check the gap with feeler gages,
using trigonometry or cad to determine exactly how much more material needs
to to be taken off your flycut surface in able to get a perfect fit...it
might take a couple of tries, but once you get there, you can use bluing and
slide your test block on the bed, making sure you have a good amount of
contact area on both the vee and the flat...

After that, drop a pin in the vee and measure from your flycut surface to
the pin, writing down your pin diameter and height above flat, and save this
info for future reference.

This sounds like a good approach.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message news:joegwinn-
...This will come in handy for one-off jobs, but for the Clausing
V-rail grooves I decided that a specialized tool was worthwhile.
Joe Gwinn

You did write that you had already ordered them, but it's a good
opportunity to discuss alternatives for similar jobs, including those
you could use for fine adjustments if the Clausing's angle doesn't
exactly match the end mill's.

I bought an expensive new angle cutter while I was unemployed to recut
the ways on an old worn lathe, on the trade school's horizontal mill.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message news:joegwinn-
...This will come in handy for one-off jobs, but for the Clausing
V-rail grooves I decided that a specialized tool was worthwhile.
Joe Gwinn

You did write that you had already ordered them, but it's a good
opportunity to discuss alternatives for similar jobs, including those you
could use for fine adjustments if the Clausing's angle doesn't exactly
match the end mill's.

I bought an expensive new angle cutter while I was unemployed to recut the
ways on an old worn lathe, on the trade school's horizontal mill.


Yet another way, would be to offhand grind a single point form tool that
matches your tailstock vee and then mount it into a boring bar type of
arrangemnet sort of like this:

Here is a good pictu

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Pr...ipdriver07.jpg

This one is even better :

http://tinyurl.com/77ltjzp

On 2012-07-02, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

[ ... ]

Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35 degrees
to cut the angle?

With a 70 degree included angle, and a normal 90 degrees between
the tip and the side of the mill?

Granted -- 70 degrees seems a lot narrower than on my Clausing
lathe -- a 12x24" model 5418/

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-07-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

[ ... ]

ah..Joe..you dont have a sine plate or a set of angles you can put a
block in your mill vise and set up for a 45' angle, then reverse"

I don't think that would work for a 70 degree *internal* angle.
The lathe has a projecting inverted V. The body for the micrometer stop
-- or other devices -- is a *female* V.

I guess that you could use your approach with a dovetail mill to
cut the female V.

Ive used a set of old drafting triangles for years for this sort of
thing, and then used a regular endmill to cut one side, then the other.
Its not rocket science...but if you have lots and lots of
cash..sure..keep American Industry alive. And thank you for your
service!!

Gunner, who also uses a Logan shaper for this sort of work if the mill
is tied up

A lot easier here -- since the angle is narrower than the end of
an end mill, and a HSS lathe bit is cheap enough to grind to a proper
point for the task.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 4 Jul 2012 02:25:32 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-07-02, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

[ ... ]

Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35 degrees
to cut the angle?

With a 70 degree included angle, and a normal 90 degrees between
the tip and the side of the mill?


Yes. You need a small relief groove at the apex of the vee, but the
ways don't come to a point either, so you're not losing any bearing
surface.

Granted -- 70 degrees seems a lot narrower than on my Clausing
lathe -- a 12x24" model 5418/


Seventy degrees does seem rather steep. The ways on my Monarch are 90
degrees.

--
Ned Simmons

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:54:00 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

So, I ordered a pair (main plus backup) of V-203 conical endmills from
the Conical Tool Company http://www.conicalendmills.com/default2.htm
in the frozen wastelands of Michigan, Grand Rapids to be sure. The
endmills cost $122 each, through MSC's special-order process.

It will be a few weeks before the endmills arrive. The first two
projects will be the stop and the dial indicator holder.

Joe Gwinn

Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35 degrees
to cut the angle?

One can, but it's very slow, with all the setup, and the fact that one
cannot use a big mill because of the 1/4" groove bottom dimension.

Joe Gwinn

While you need a relatively small dia end mill to finish the sides of
the vee, almost all the material can be hogged out with a larger tool.
I'd probably bandsaw it out.

If the block is squared up carefully first, setup should be pretty
quick.

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
...
While you need a relatively small dia end mill to finish the sides
of
the vee, almost all the material can be hogged out with a larger
tool.
I'd probably bandsaw it out....
Ned Simmons

How?

Vertically, freehand on the table isn't too accurate and horizontally
it isn't easy to securely clamp a block in the vise at the angle the
blade must stop at in a blind cut. I've marked the line on the outside
and shimmed up the work to match the line to the blade. The work had
to be held down in the vise with extra C clamps. Those were a straight
cuts parallel to the block sides.

The 90 degree vee groove in my South Bend micrometer stop is 2" long,
a lot of thickness to saw with hand pressure. I'd cut the slot with a
slitting saw in the mill.

http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=micstop
If the casting is a close enough copy of a South Bend original there
should be enough metal to deepen the groove from 90 to 70 degrees.
It's not an exact match. Mine has 0.5" of iron above the point of the
vee groove. 0.4" remains above a traced 70 degree angle.

I think it could be clamped in a vise with the end plates and spindle
removed. The SB one has only a machined flat on the bottom for a
reference surface that you could level, or temporarily attach to an
overhanging plate that rests on the vise jaw tops. If the 70 degree
end mill is correct you'll be good with one pass but it would be
difficult to put back in the vise to make adjustments without some
fixturing.

You might even get away with adhesive-backed felt or rubber in the vee
groove since the mic stop doesn't have to slide accurately on the
ways.

jsw

On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 11:16:37 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
...
While you need a relatively small dia end mill to finish the sides
of
the vee, almost all the material can be hogged out with a larger
tool.
I'd probably bandsaw it out....
Ned Simmons

How?

Vertically, freehand on the table isn't too accurate and horizontally
it isn't easy to securely clamp a block in the vise at the angle the
blade must stop at in a blind cut. I've marked the line on the outside
and shimmed up the work to match the line to the blade. The work had
to be held down in the vise with extra C clamps. Those were a straight
cuts parallel to the block sides.

The 90 degree vee groove in my South Bend micrometer stop is 2" long,
a lot of thickness to saw with hand pressure. I'd cut the slot with a
slitting saw in the mill.

Freehand on vertical saw. How close I'd dare cut to the final
dimension depends on the saw and my eyesight. On my saw (a 65 year old
DoAll ML) I'd be comfortable with leaving .030 to .050, but that's
more a function my patience and eyesight than the saw's capability.
This saw does have a weight assisted cable feed, but I wouldn't bother
setting it up in this case. I *would* make sure the saw had a coarse
blade installed, but the blade change would take longer than the cut.

DoAll did make a lighted magnifier accessory for more accurate sawing.

This is an example of the time you can save with a well-tuned vertical
bandsaw.
http://tinyurl.com/cud9evh

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
...
Freehand on vertical saw. How close I'd dare cut to the final
dimension depends on the saw and my eyesight. On my saw (a 65 year
old
DoAll ML) I'd be comfortable with leaving .030 to .050, but that's
more a function my patience and eyesight than the saw's capability.
...
Ned Simmons

I'll take your word for it. The only good industrial vertical bandsaws
I've used were available for all employees, including managers with no
clue of the hardness of the rebar and lawnmower blades they were
cutting. New blades dulled in a day and were left on as subtle
punishment.

jsw

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

One can, but there is no speed advantage over a straight endmill - the
setup time is the same.



Don't let them razz you too much about buying that cutter, yes there are
lots of other ways to do the job but if it matches your lathe bed and you
take good care of it then it will come in VERY handy over the years if
you
ever need to make a steady rest or if you ever want to adapt a old bed
turret from some other lathe onto it etc...

That's my thinking as well. And the endmills are on the way, so the
razzing is ex post facto.


One thing you need to realize, is that the pointy end has no surface
speed
and so you want to hog out most of the material first, using a regular
cutter, ALWAYS cuttting a small "relief slot" at the very center of your
vee
first..and only cut with one side or the other with your angle
cutter...otherwise, you'll have nothing but problems and you'll probably
even break the very tip off of it before you even finish your first
job...

Yes, and I notice that people rough the groove out first, unless they
are using a horizontal mill. If one is scraping, the slot is also
essential.


Something that's good to know, is the exact depth of the Vee on your
lathe,
this can be a hassle to initially determine, but once you've established
it
accurately, there is no end to the special tooling etc that you can make
up
to fit your lathe.

Clausing has published the exact dimensions of the bedway in relation to
the spindle et al, so no experimentation is needed. They also specify
the diameter of the rod to nest in the groove, and how much the nestled
rod must protrude.


The way I do this is with a test block in a mill--first flycut it flat,
and
then mill your vee depth to where you think it's close, but just a tad
bit
deeper. Then, set it on the lathe bed and check the gap with feeler
gages,
using trigonometry or cad to determine exactly how much more material
needs
to to be taken off your flycut surface in able to get a perfect fit...it
might take a couple of tries, but once you get there, you can use bluing
and
slide your test block on the bed, making sure you have a good amount of
contact area on both the vee and the flat...

After that, drop a pin in the vee and measure from your flycut surface to
the pin, writing down your pin diameter and height above flat, and save
this
info for future reference.

This sounds like a good approach.

Joe Gwinn

I would however, suggest make up a turret style micrometer stop instead.

--excellent where you have a number of parts to make and you're using of the
several aloris type holders on each one.

In article ,
"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
...
Any reason you can't use a regular endmill and tip the part 35
degrees
to cut the angle?
Ned Simmons

Or a standard, more acute angle like 60 degrees and tilt the blank 5
degrees?
http://www.endmill.com/software/Meli...nd%20Mills.pdf

One can, but there is no speed advantage over a straight endmill - the
setup time is the same.



Don't let them razz you too much about buying that cutter, yes there are
lots of other ways to do the job but if it matches your lathe bed and you
take good care of it then it will come in VERY handy over the years if
you
ever need to make a steady rest or if you ever want to adapt a old bed
turret from some other lathe onto it etc...

That's my thinking as well. And the endmills are on the way, so the
razzing is ex post facto.


One thing you need to realize, is that the pointy end has no surface
speed
and so you want to hog out most of the material first, using a regular
cutter, ALWAYS cuttting a small "relief slot" at the very center of your
vee
first..and only cut with one side or the other with your angle
cutter...otherwise, you'll have nothing but problems and you'll probably
even break the very tip off of it before you even finish your first
job...

Yes, and I notice that people rough the groove out first, unless they
are using a horizontal mill. If one is scraping, the slot is also
essential.


Something that's good to know, is the exact depth of the Vee on your
lathe,
this can be a hassle to initially determine, but once you've established
it
accurately, there is no end to the special tooling etc that you can make
up
to fit your lathe.

Clausing has published the exact dimensions of the bedway in relation to
the spindle et al, so no experimentation is needed. They also specify
the diameter of the rod to nest in the groove, and how much the nestled
rod must protrude.


The way I do this is with a test block in a mill--first flycut it flat,
and
then mill your vee depth to where you think it's close, but just a tad
bit
deeper. Then, set it on the lathe bed and check the gap with feeler
gages,
using trigonometry or cad to determine exactly how much more material
needs
to to be taken off your flycut surface in able to get a perfect fit...it
might take a couple of tries, but once you get there, you can use bluing
and
slide your test block on the bed, making sure you have a good amount of
contact area on both the vee and the flat...

After that, drop a pin in the vee and measure from your flycut surface to
the pin, writing down your pin diameter and height above flat, and save
this
info for future reference.

This sounds like a good approach.

Joe Gwinn

I would however, suggest make up a turret style micrometer stop instead.

--excellent where you have a number of parts to make and you're using of the
several aloris type holders on each one.

Also a good idea. There was such a device for sale on fleabay for ~
$500, but I don't know if it sold.

But first, I'll make a simple stop, for the experience.

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:


It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.


You might want to consider installing a Trav-a-dial on your carriage.
It measures infinite travel, is always available, and is quick to
re-zero. It's one of the most-used accessories on my Clausing 5914.

http://memweb.newsguy.com/~mphenry/TAD-2.JPG

Mike Henry wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old
stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that
it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove
endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

You might want to consider installing a Trav-a-dial on your
carriage.
It measures infinite travel, is always available, and is quick to
re-zero. It's one of the most-used accessories on my Clausing 5914.

I like the 2" indicator for threading, the micrometer stop for boring
a flat-bottomed recess. It's difficult to stop within 0.001" without
overshooting using the carriage handwheel.

jsw

In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

Mike Henry wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old
stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that
it will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove
endmill makes it easy to make all such things.

You might want to consider installing a Trav-a-dial on your carriage.
It measures infinite travel, is always available, and is quick to
re-zero. It's one of the most-used accessories on my Clausing 5914.

I like the 2" indicator for threading, the micrometer stop for boring
a flat-bottomed recess. It's difficult to stop within 0.001" without
overshooting using the carriage handwheel.

I agree with both of you. I have used the dial indicator, and always
overshoot, so the plan is to use the indicator to set the stop.

As for the Trav-a-dial, it is the original CRO (Clockface Read Out), and
is a real possibility. I think they are still made, but are not cheap.

Mounting a real DRO is likely to be pretty awkward, given that the lathe
was not designed for a DRO. I had been toying with mounting a short
unit on a bedway fixture that in clamped into place when needed.

Joe Gwinn

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

I'm reading through your thread. 70 degrees seems to be be what my 69xx is. I think you
have a 59xx, iirc. I'm planning to make my own stop in the near future. A engine lathe
w/o the stop is a bit crippled.

Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

In article ,
Wes wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

I'm reading through your thread. 70 degrees seems to be be what my 69xx is.
I think you have a 59xx, iirc.

I have a 5914. The 70 degrees comes from Clausing, and measurements on
the lathe bear this figure out. If you wish to verify this, I would ask
Clausing for the drawing giving the bedway dimensions and relationship
to the spindle axis for the 6900 series lathes.


I'm planning to make my own stop in the near
future. A engine lathe w/o the stop is a bit crippled.

Agree.

Joe Gwinn

On 2012-07-07, Wes wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Recently, I was in the bidding for a micrometer stop for a Clausing 12"
lathe. I dropped out when the price soared well above $200. Why?
Because I was thinking that for that kind of money, I can buy a
special-purpose endmill that will mill the 70-degree (included angle)
groove to fit the bedway V-rail. If as-milled isn't quite precise
enough, I can always scrape it into perfection.

I'm reading through your thread. 70 degrees seems to be be what my 69xx is. I think you
have a 59xx, iirc. I'm planning to make my own stop in the near future. A engine lathe
w/o the stop is a bit crippled.

O.K. I just went down and checked. My 5418 checks out at
pretty close to 80 degrees with a Starrett bevel protractor.

I would probably either use my 7" shaper to cut it (for a bed
stop), or a dovetail cutter in a tilted milling head, depending on how
difficult it was to mount on either machine.

And for this -- it is not *really* critical. As long as it has
enough gripping surface so the carriage won't bump it along, it should
be fine. I've got a couple of turret stops, and a micrometer stop, and
each sees its own series of uses. In particular, the turret stops tend
to be used when I have a bed turret in place of the tailstock, so I can
do grooving or facing and parting at different carriage positions while
the turret handles things like turning down (box tool), knurling
(T-knurler), drilling and tapping, and external threading with a
Geometric die head.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:17:13 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


Mike Henry wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old
stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that
it
will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove
endmill
makes it easy to make all such things.

You might want to consider installing a Trav-a-dial on your
carriage.
It measures infinite travel, is always available, and is quick to
re-zero. It's one of the most-used accessories on my Clausing 5914.

I like the 2" indicator for threading, the micrometer stop for boring
a flat-bottomed recess. It's difficult to stop within 0.001" without
overshooting using the carriage handwheel.

jsw


I can usually stop within 5 thou with the Trav-a-dial, often 2 thou
but that's not consistent enough to count on it. Not having to
reposition an indicator holder is a real bonus for me. It just takes
a few seconds to re-zero the two dials on the TAD.

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 15:25:46 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

Mike Henry wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old
stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that
it will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove
endmill makes it easy to make all such things.

You might want to consider installing a Trav-a-dial on your carriage.
It measures infinite travel, is always available, and is quick to
re-zero. It's one of the most-used accessories on my Clausing 5914.

I like the 2" indicator for threading, the micrometer stop for boring
a flat-bottomed recess. It's difficult to stop within 0.001" without
overshooting using the carriage handwheel.

I agree with both of you. I have used the dial indicator, and always
overshoot, so the plan is to use the indicator to set the stop.

As for the Trav-a-dial, it is the original CRO (Clockface Read Out), and
is a real possibility. I think they are still made, but are not cheap.

Mounting a real DRO is likely to be pretty awkward, given that the lathe
was not designed for a DRO. I had been toying with mounting a short
unit on a bedway fixture that in clamped into place when needed.

Joe Gwinn

Joe - you can find working TADs on Ebay for $150 or so with a bit of
patience, though seem to be bringing $200+ recently.

The spherical washers needed for the mount are often missing and are
available from McMaster-Carr among other sources. Mine lacked the
tensioning device so I cobbled one up in the shop. I can provide
drawings for that and for the mount made for my 5914 if you are
interested. The mount was made of aluminum plate and bolted together.
Welding would be better but the bolted version has been working fine
for my needs for 5 or 6 years now.

Mike

In article ,
Anonymous wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 15:25:46 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

Mike Henry wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:09:50 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

It isn't obvious that I need a micrometer stop versus a plain old
stop,
and I plan to make a clamp to hold a 0-2" dial indicator such that
it will indicate carriage location, and having the 70 degree groove
endmill makes it easy to make all such things.

You might want to consider installing a Trav-a-dial on your carriage.
It measures infinite travel, is always available, and is quick to
re-zero. It's one of the most-used accessories on my Clausing 5914.

I like the 2" indicator for threading, the micrometer stop for boring
a flat-bottomed recess. It's difficult to stop within 0.001" without
overshooting using the carriage handwheel.

I agree with both of you. I have used the dial indicator, and always
overshoot, so the plan is to use the indicator to set the stop.

As for the Trav-a-dial, it is the original CRO (Clockface Read Out), and
is a real possibility. I think they are still made, but are not cheap.

Mounting a real DRO is likely to be pretty awkward, given that the lathe
was not designed for a DRO. I had been toying with mounting a short
unit on a bedway fixture that in clamped into place when needed.

Joe Gwinn

Joe - you can find working TADs on Ebay for $150 or so with a bit of
patience, though seem to be bringing $200+ recently.

The spherical washers needed for the mount are often missing and are
available from McMaster-Carr among other sources. Mine lacked the
tensioning device so I cobbled one up in the shop. I can provide
drawings for that and for the mount made for my 5914 if you are
interested. The mount was made of aluminum plate and bolted together.
Welding would be better but the bolted version has been working fine
for my needs for 5 or 6 years now.

Mike

This seems worth exploration.

What do I look for on fleabay to tell if the unit on offer is any good?
Mechanically they are pretty simple, but I doubt that they bounce well.

Joe Gwinn

On 7/14/2012 5:28 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,


Joe - you can find working TADs on Ebay for $150 or so with a bit of
patience, though seem to be bringing $200+ recently.

The spherical washers needed for the mount are often missing and are
available from McMaster-Carr among other sources. Mine lacked the
tensioning device so I cobbled one up in the shop. I can provide
drawings for that and for the mount made for my 5914 if you are
interested. The mount was made of aluminum plate and bolted together.
Welding would be better but the bolted version has been working fine
for my needs for 5 or 6 years now.

Mike

This seems worth exploration.

What do I look for on fleabay to tell if the unit on offer is any good?
Mechanically they are pretty simple, but I doubt that they bounce well.

Joe Gwinn


I've repaired a small pile of Trav-a-dials - they often get gummy from
coolant or get swarf in the gears - I've been able to clean them just
fine, replace the damaged glass (well, plastic) - just remember to
retension the anti-backlash gear upon reassembly

"Anonymous" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:17:13 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
...
I like the 2" indicator for threading, the micrometer stop for
boring
a flat-bottomed recess. It's difficult to stop within 0.001" without
overshooting using the carriage handwheel.
jsw


I can usually stop within 5 thou with the Trav-a-dial, often 2 thou
but that's not consistent enough to count on it. Not having to
reposition an indicator holder is a real bonus for me. It just
takes
a few seconds to re-zero the two dials on the TAD.

I mount the 2" dial indicator on the stud at the end of (and below)
the stop spindle.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...33382447691698
It's in one of two tapped holes for some accessory I don't own.
Between rotating the dial scale and extending the rod with a long tip
from an Enco kit the indicator can handle most of the usual range of
collet work, though hitting a zero mark located near the East or West
positions is uncertain. I should make a mount that tilts the indicator
rather than getting my head too close to the rotating spindle.
http://www.phase2plus.com/details.as...ator_Point_Kit

jsw

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:28:11 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

snip

This seems worth exploration.

What do I look for on fleabay to tell if the unit on offer is any good?
Mechanically they are pretty simple, but I doubt that they bounce well.

Joe Gwinn

I usually figure that if they look beat up, they are not worth the
risk if personal inspection is not possible. In general, you need
these components:

1) Bracket
2) TAD base
3) TAD unit (dial)
4) Sphereical washers for 1/4" screws
5) 1/4-28 screws (4)

The bracket is attached to the lathe carriage or mill and is usually
custom-made for the machine it will be mounted on, though SWI used to
(and may still) sell brackets for common machines.

The TAD base mounts to the bracket and has 2 hard inserts that two of
the 1/4-28 screws bear against to adjust the tilt of the base in the
lathe X-Y plane (perpendicular to longitudinal travel). The important
part here is that the inserts should be flat - some are dented.

The TAD unit has the dials and a wheel that bears againts the bed ways
(in the case of a lathe). Swarf from a PO's installation can get
inside the unit, which can mess up the clock action. SWI claims that
the TADs are not serviceable, though some owners report success. I
wouldn't count on it being serviceable so would not pay much for one
that was suspect. SWI included a clip and foam gasket that fit over
the wheel and (mostly) prevented swarf from getting inside the unit,
but these are usually missing. SWI used to supply spares and may
still. The dial cover also was a replacement part and I'd order a
spare if they are still available. Old ones tend to crack and yellow
with age. Naturally you need the dial finger to be intact, too.

A copy of the manual or knowledgeable friend can be nearly essential.
There is a calibration procedure which is a more involved than I care
to deal with in a newsgroup message. Email me if you want a copy. I
get here once a week at most.

There were 2 or 3 different versions over the years. I have manuals
for the Series 6 and Series 7/8 models.

Mike

Hopefully someone else will correct any misinformation in the above.

In article ,
Anonymous wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:28:11 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

snip

This seems worth exploration.

What do I look for on fleabay to tell if the unit on offer is any good?
Mechanically they are pretty simple, but I doubt that they bounce well.

Joe Gwinn

I usually figure that if they look beat up, they are not worth the
risk if personal inspection is not possible. In general, you need
these components:

1) Bracket
2) TAD base
3) TAD unit (dial)
4) Sphereical washers for 1/4" screws
5) 1/4-28 screws (4)

The bracket is attached to the lathe carriage or mill and is usually
custom-made for the machine it will be mounted on, though SWI used to
(and may still) sell brackets for common machines.

It would be luck indeed if one turned up with the correct bracket, so I
expect that I'll be making the bracket.


The TAD base mounts to the bracket and has 2 hard inserts that two of
the 1/4-28 screws bear against to adjust the tilt of the base in the
lathe X-Y plane (perpendicular to longitudinal travel). The important
part here is that the inserts should be flat - some are dented.

Is there any reason one could not make the inserts of say O1 steel, and
harden them oneself?

I assume that these 1/4-28 screws are nothing special. As for the
spherical 1/4 inch washers, one can buy such things from Gibralter and
the like.


The TAD unit has the dials and a wheel that bears againts the bed ways
(in the case of a lathe). Swarf from a PO's installation can get
inside the unit, which can mess up the clock action. SWI claims that
the TADs are not serviceable, though some owners report success. I
wouldn't count on it being serviceable so would not pay much for one
that was suspect. SWI included a clip and foam gasket that fit over
the wheel and (mostly) prevented swarf from getting inside the unit,
but these are usually missing. SWI used to supply spares and may
still.

I've taken dial calipers apart to clean and repair them (including swarf
removal). It was fiddly, but wasn't that hard.

The wheel looks like it came from a knurler.


The dial cover also was a replacement part and I'd order a
spare if they are still available. Old ones tend to crack and yellow
with age. Naturally you need the dial finger to be intact, too.

A copy of the manual or knowledgeable friend can be nearly essential.
There is a calibration procedure which is a more involved than I care
to deal with in a newsgroup message. Email me if you want a copy. I
get here once a week at most.

If I score a unit, I'm sure I'll be needing the manual.


There were 2 or 3 different versions over the years. I have manuals
for the Series 6 and Series 7/8 models.

Mike

Hopefully someone else will correct any misinformation in the above.

Thanks,

Joe Gwinn

On 2012-07-21, Anonymous wrote:

[ ... ]

A copy of the manual or knowledgeable friend can be nearly essential.
There is a calibration procedure which is a more involved than I care
to deal with in a newsgroup message. Email me if you want a copy. I
get here once a week at most.

I'm not the one who needs it -- but -- email you how? You
appear to post with an invalid e-mail address (as do I these days, FWIW,
but instructions to get the real one are in my .sig. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---