On Apr 8, 7:07*pm, George Plimpton wrote:



You didn't do anything to dispute the fact that there is no claim of
racial superiority in Derbyshire's piece, not-so-fast eddie.



The web site referenced is extremely slow. So I did not read " The
Talk " until today.

There is a lot of statements about IQ differences between blacks and
whites. While I think that there are some differences , I do not
think the differences are close to being as large as Derbyshire
claims. The book " The Bell Curve " has statistics that are probably
more accurate.

Much of " The Talk " is reasonable, but the claim of differences in IQ
are to me a unwarranted claim of racial superiority.

Dan

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 07:08:17 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 8, 7:07*pm, George Plimpton wrote:



You didn't do anything to dispute the fact that there is no claim of
racial superiority in Derbyshire's piece, not-so-fast eddie.



The web site referenced is extremely slow. So I did not read " The
Talk " until today.

There is a lot of statements about IQ differences between blacks and
whites. While I think that there are some differences , I do not
think the differences are close to being as large as Derbyshire
claims. The book " The Bell Curve " has statistics that are probably
more accurate.

Much of " The Talk " is reasonable, but the claim of differences in IQ
are to me a unwarranted claim of racial superiority.

Dan

Derbyshire, like Murray and Lawrence Summers (in his speech about
women in high-end science and engineering jobs -- the one that cost
him the presidency of Harvard University), glissades back and forth
between statistics and individualism to weave an argument that can be
difficult to pick apart. It's an intellectual corruption, but that's
par for the course.

At least Derbyshire warns us by asserting that he's a racist -- he
thinks that blacks are inherently inferior. That's the belief that
informs his polemics. When you start with that belief, and if you're a
good essayist (he is), you can convince the unwary that the moon is
made of cheese.

This is not a response to any of those polemics; that would take a lot
of work. But you can see the pattern: Start with a tip of the hat to
the range of individual differences; then quote statistics to support
a sterotypical discrimination (what happened to treating people as
individuals?); quote some sources that reinforce the stereotypes; and
finally, end with another tip of the hat ("In that pool of forty
million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized
blacks" [IWSBs]...), blunted with "to be an IWSB in present-day US
society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of
human beings in history." Those lucky devils, eh?

Masterful. I can picture him skiing down the slalom course at Gstaad
-- backwards, on one ski.

That's an abuse of intellectual skills. As I said, getting into an
argument with them is a tedious business, but you can see the basic
logical problems with that type of argument by noting what is *not*
said -- particularly in Charle's Murray's _the Bell Curve_. Murray
points out that blacks score lower on IQ tests, and that it is a waste
of time and money, therefore, to encourage them into higher education.
Murray also notes that Asians score better than whites.

The obvious conclusion is something that he doesn't bother to address:
It is a waste of time and money to encourage white people to go to
college. If you follow Murray's logic, the smart thing would be to
encourage Asians, and don't abuse whites by encouraging them to aspire
to things for which they're not suited. Better to teach whites to be
janitors and barbers, and to leave the intellectual heavy lifting to
Asians.

I wonder if Derbyshire wears smoking jackets and drinks Port at his
club?

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/9/2012 10:07 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 07:08:17 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 8, 7:07 pm, George wrote:



You didn't do anything to dispute the fact that there is no claim of
racial superiority in Derbyshire's piece, not-so-fast eddie.



The web site referenced is extremely slow. So I did not read " The
Talk " until today.

There is a lot of statements about IQ differences between blacks and
whites. While I think that there are some differences , I do not
think the differences are close to being as large as Derbyshire
claims. The book " The Bell Curve " has statistics that are probably
more accurate.

Much of " The Talk " is reasonable, but the claim of differences in IQ
are to me a unwarranted claim of racial superiority.

Dan

Derbyshire, like Murray and Lawrence Summers (in his speech about
women in high-end science and engineering jobs -- the one that cost
him the presidency of Harvard University), glissades back and forth
between statistics and individualism to weave an argument that can be
difficult to pick apart. It's an intellectual corruption, but that's
par for the course.

You illiberal white "liberal" racists simply deny that there is any
validly measured difference in mean IQ between blacks and whites.


At least Derbyshire warns us by asserting that he's a racist -- he
thinks that blacks are inherently inferior.

No, nowhere does he say that. He is using "racist" as you leftists
typically use it, *not* to mean that he thinks blacks are inferior. He
doesn't like blacks, and he says so. By the definition you personally
have given of "racism", that does not make him racist. It makes him a
bigot.


That's the belief that informs his polemics.

Bull****. You're just lying.


When you start with that belief,

Which he doesn't...


and if you're a
good essayist (he is), you can convince the unwary that the moon is
made of cheese.

Get back to the point. There is a statistically significant difference
in the mean IQ of whites and blacks. What about it?

Leave out your left-wing ideological bull****, and just address that fact.

On Apr 9, 1:23*pm, George Plimpton wrote:


Get back to the point. *There is a statistically significant difference
in the mean IQ of whites and blacks. *What about it?

Leave out your left-wing ideological bull****, and just address that fact..

There is a difference. But it is not all bad. I believe one of the
differences is that the blacks with high IQ's tend to have much higher
IQ's.

One thing that may cause the statistical difference is that the
culture of blacks in high school is to put down intellectual
accomplishments. Whereas the culture of whites in high school is to
admire intellectual accomplishments. And the culture of Asian parents
is to demand intellectual accomplishments.

But regardless of any statistical difference, it is obviously wrong to
judge individuals based on statistics about groups. A kid with an IQ
of 150 is a kid with an IQ of 150 regardless of what race the kid is.

Dan

On 4/9/2012 1:53 PM, wrote:
On Apr 9, 1:23 pm, George wrote:


Get back to the point. There is a statistically significant difference
in the mean IQ of whites and blacks. What about it?

Leave out your left-wing ideological bull****, and just address that fact.

There is a difference. But it is not all bad. I believe one of the
differences is that the blacks with high IQ's tend to have much higher
IQ's.

One thing that may cause the statistical difference is that the
culture of blacks in high school is to put down intellectual
accomplishments. Whereas the culture of whites in high school is to
admire intellectual accomplishments. And the culture of Asian parents
is to demand intellectual accomplishments.

That can't be it. IQ does not measure what people have learned; it
measures ability to learn. IQ tests are administered beginning at ages
well below where the anti-scholastic social values of blacks begin to
set the tone in school.


But regardless of any statistical difference, it is obviously wrong to
judge individuals based on statistics about groups. A kid with an IQ
of 150 is a kid with an IQ of 150 regardless of what race the kid is.

Correct. The point that Derbyshire was making is that when encountering
a black "civil" "servant" in a government office, a rational expectation
is that employee will be less intelligent than if she were white, and so
less likely to be competent. Based on the different means and the
distribution of intelligence, that's undoubtedly true. That difference
in mean IQ of whites and blacks does not address why the black "civil"
"servant" is more likely to be aggressively rude.

On Apr 9, 5:08*pm, George Plimpton wrote:


That can't be it. *IQ does not measure what people have learned; it
measures ability to learn. *IQ tests are administered beginning at ages
well below where the anti-scholastic social values of blacks begin to
set the tone in school.


That is the theory. But it is hard to separate the ability to learn
from what has been learned. Obviously a kid with a high ability to
learn will have learned more than a kid with a low ability to learn.
It is pretty much impossible to create an IQ test that asks questions
that no one has ever seen. So the kid that has learned a lot will get
questions that are similar to questions the kid has seen.

Dan

On Apr 9, 5:08*pm, George Plimpton wrote:

Correct. *The point that Derbyshire was making is that when encountering
a black "civil" "servant" in a government office, a rational expectation
is that employee will be less intelligent than if she were white, and so
less likely to be competent. *Based on the different means and the
distribution of intelligence, that's undoubtedly true.

It may have nothing to do with the distribution of intelligence. It
may be that a Black civil servant got the job because of affirmative
action and has no reason to believe that there will be any affect on
job progression caused by being rude.

Dan

Can be read that way. My view is that the two cultures are different. And
the IQ tests were written for white culture.

I'm sure an IQ test can be written, to make Whites look dumb.

Question 17. Which of the four choices is the appropriate response to the
following question?
Question: Where you ho at?
a) in the garden shed
b) hanging on the garage wall
c) In de crib, home
d) In the closet off the back hallway, with the other garden tools.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

Much of " The Talk " is reasonable, but the claim of differences in IQ
are to me a unwarranted claim of racial superiority.

Dan

On 4/9/2012 6:03 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Can be read that way. My view is that the two cultures are different. And
the IQ tests were written for white culture.

That's bull****. The "culture-bias" explanation for differences in mean
black and mean white IQ were discredited decades ago.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Can be read that way. My view is that the two cultures are different. And
the IQ tests were written for white culture.

I'm sure an IQ test can be written, to make Whites look dumb.

Question 17. Which of the four choices is the appropriate response to the
following question?
Question: Where you ho at?
a) in the garden shed
b) hanging on the garage wall
c) In de crib, home
d) In the closet off the back hallway, with the other garden tools.


You don't know the difference between a hoe and a ho.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

I think I do. Which is what makes the negro IQ test so tough for whites.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Can be read that way. My view is that the two cultures are different. And
the IQ tests were written for white culture.

I'm sure an IQ test can be written, to make Whites look dumb.

Question 17. Which of the four choices is the appropriate response to the
following question?
Question: Where you ho at?
a) in the garden shed
b) hanging on the garage wall
c) In de crib, home
d) In the closet off the back hallway, with the other garden tools.


You don't know the difference between a hoe and a ho.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I think I do. Which is what makes the negro IQ test so tough for whites.

That wasn't an IQ test, it was a 'Slang Test'.


Most of what I remember about those type of tests were the math &
science questions. I got the highest score in Science & Mechanics in
the school district one year. I shared the top spot in math with two
other kids.

I don't remember anything that was something that any other group
shouldn't know. Just things that a well rounded Jr. high & High school
student should know. I don't know the scores on the later tests,
because I never asked to see them. I do remember the guidance
counselors trying to push me into fields I wasn't interested in, and
repeatedly telling me that I shouldn't waste my time with electronics,
because I was too smart. I had no interest in medicine or law, even
though a nurse watched me repairing some electronics in their office and
said, "You should have been a surgeon! You do better work that several
doctors I've worked with." She also questioned why I had a scalpel,
Forceps and syringes in my toolbox. I explained how each item was used
in repairing delicate electronics, and she laughed. She excused herself
and came back with a handful of old surgical tools and gave them to me.
I left that day with a box of 100 new insulin syringes that had been
ordered for a patient, and they had ordered the wrong size. I drilled
out the end of them to insert a piece of red spray tube. Then I used
them for electronics chemicals. I gave away about half of them, and
used the others for decades.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Yep, that was a slang test. Oh, well. Just goes to show. Most good writers
can get the answer they want, if they slant the question enough.

Well, maybe you would have been an excellent surgeon?

The syringes with the LRT sound fun. I've used syringes with 16 ga needle
for dispensing grease or antioxidant. Bench grinder, and flatten the tip of
the needle, so it's no longer injection device.

Used to go to college with a farm boy, who gave me some plastic syringes.
The use em on the farm for putting penicillin into cow teats.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


Most of what I remember about those type of tests were the math &
science questions. I got the highest score in Science & Mechanics in
the school district one year. I shared the top spot in math with two
other kids.

I don't remember anything that was something that any other group
shouldn't know. Just things that a well rounded Jr. high & High school
student should know. I don't know the scores on the later tests,
because I never asked to see them. I do remember the guidance
counselors trying to push me into fields I wasn't interested in, and
repeatedly telling me that I shouldn't waste my time with electronics,
because I was too smart. I had no interest in medicine or law, even
though a nurse watched me repairing some electronics in their office and
said, "You should have been a surgeon! You do better work that several
doctors I've worked with." She also questioned why I had a scalpel,
Forceps and syringes in my toolbox. I explained how each item was used
in repairing delicate electronics, and she laughed. She excused herself
and came back with a handful of old surgical tools and gave them to me.
I left that day with a box of 100 new insulin syringes that had been
ordered for a patient, and they had ordered the wrong size. I drilled
out the end of them to insert a piece of red spray tube. Then I used
them for electronics chemicals. I gave away about half of them, and
used the others for decades.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

In article , cayoung61
says...

I think I do. Which is what makes the negro IQ test so tough for whites.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Can be read that way. My view is that the two cultures are different. And
the IQ tests were written for white culture.

I'm sure an IQ test can be written, to make Whites look dumb.

Question 17. Which of the four choices is the appropriate response to the
following question?
Question: Where you ho at?
a) in the garden shed
b) hanging on the garage wall
c) In de crib, home
d) In the closet off the back hallway, with the other garden tools.


You don't know the difference between a hoe and a ho.

Whoopi Goldberg would get the joke. Her production company is "One Ho
Productions". When asked what a "Ho" is she replied "Well, it can be a
gardening tool . . ."