I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

That way, I could climb over all the obstructions
without disturbing anything. Note that there is not
enough clearance to use a step ladder in this awful
location and there is no safe place to rest the top
of an extension ladder.

My Google-Fu has failed to uncover a good answer.
This is as close as I have come:
http://www.stokesladders.com/product...-third-leg.asp

It looks promising but there is not enough information
for me to understand what this product does. I assume it
is only an accessory to their brand of ladder.

How would you solve this problem?

--Winston

(I want to clean up the hole I cut in the ceiling.
It's the right size and works great but it is not
super nice looking. I have the fan mounted in
anticipation of rain and I really don't
want to take it apart to access from the roof.)

On 9/19/2011 9:11 PM, Winston wrote:
I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

That way, I could climb over all the obstructions
without disturbing anything. Note that there is not
enough clearance to use a step ladder in this awful
location and there is no safe place to rest the top
of an extension ladder.

My Google-Fu has failed to uncover a good answer.
This is as close as I have come:
http://www.stokesladders.com/product...-third-leg.asp

It looks promising but there is not enough information
for me to understand what this product does. I assume it
is only an accessory to their brand of ladder.

How would you solve this problem?

--Winston

(I want to clean up the hole I cut in the ceiling.
It's the right size and works great but it is not
super nice looking. I have the fan mounted in
anticipation of rain and I really don't
want to take it apart to access from the roof.)
Have you investigated these articulated ladders that can fold and latch
in at least three places in the legs? I don't know the name or brand,
but the guy who installed our latest over-the-air internet antenna used
one and it looked pretty strong.

Paul

Paul Drahn wrote:
On 9/19/2011 9:11 PM, Winston wrote:
I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

(...)

Have you investigated these articulated ladders that can fold and latch
in at least three places in the legs? I don't know the name or brand,
but the guy who installed our latest over-the-air internet antenna used
one and it looked pretty strong.

The top of the ladder wants to be about 12' in the air.
I suspect that would require an articulated ladder
specified in the 28' region. Nearest I can find is this
26' unit. It is really nice but far more than I want to
pay for a 'single use' tool:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LIT...N32?Pid=search

I guess what I would like to see is an adapter that bolts
on to the top rung of my extension ladder using a yoke
that adapts a piece of 2" conduit as a third leg.
Perhaps aircraft cables from the bottom of the leg
to the legs of the ladder for stability.

I could lean the (nearly) retracted ladder against
a ceiling joist, climb it and fix the 3rd leg adapter
over the top of the joist, clip the cables to the
bottom of the ladder, then extend the ladder to
working height.

What could possibly go wrong?

Thanks

--Winston

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:11:37 -0700, Winston
wrote:

I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

I can't help your issue, but this is a standard orchard ladder. I have
six of them in three different heights. I guess three leg ladders are
too expensive for the public, you don't see them in the big box
stores. But they are WAY better on uneven ground and far more
portable.

Karl

Winston wrote:

I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

That way, I could climb over all the obstructions
without disturbing anything. Note that there is not
enough clearance to use a step ladder in this awful
location and there is no safe place to rest the top
of an extension ladder.

My Google-Fu has failed to uncover a good answer.
This is as close as I have come:
http://www.stokesladders.com/product...-third-leg.asp

It looks promising but there is not enough information
for me to understand what this product does. I assume it
is only an accessory to their brand of ladder.

How would you solve this problem?

--Winston

(I want to clean up the hole I cut in the ceiling.
It's the right size and works great but it is not
super nice looking. I have the fan mounted in
anticipation of rain and I really don't
want to take it apart to access from the roof.)

Do you have enough of a footprint directly under the spot to use one of
the small telescopic lifts? You could rent one for the weekend for less
than the copay for the ER visit...

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:11:37 -0700, Winston
wrote:

I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

If your WalletFu were strong, you could.


It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

I've used these and they're just like step ladders with the exception
that their far leg is single/narrower.


That way, I could climb over all the obstructions
without disturbing anything. Note that there is not
enough clearance to use a step ladder in this awful
location and there is no safe place to rest the top
of an extension ladder.

What do you have to do overhead? Can you toss a sheet of ply up there,
brace the joists, and stand there while you do your work?


My Google-Fu has failed to uncover a good answer.
This is as close as I have come:
http://www.stokesladders.com/product...-third-leg.asp

It looks promising but there is not enough information
for me to understand what this product does. I assume it
is only an accessory to their brand of ladder.

How would you solve this problem?

I'd move the crap on the floor and use a ladder. Got machine skates,
dollies, and a hand truck? heh heh heh


(I want to clean up the hole I cut in the ceiling.
It's the right size and works great but it is not
super nice looking. I have the fan mounted in
anticipation of rain and I really don't
want to take it apart to access from the roof.)

FINALLY, he shares the reason for his need.

--
A sound mind in a sound body is a short but full description
of a happy state in this world.
-- John Locke

"Winston" wrote in message
...
I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.
...
How would you solve this problem?

--Winston

Theater lighting electricians (Gaffer, Best Boy) had A-frame based extension
ladders.

Could you work off rented scaffolding?

I have extensible feet on my ladder to use it on slopes. The plaque warns
not to extend both at once, and I tie the top end to trees and vehicles to
keep it from falling sideways if the foot fails.

jsw

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:07:19 -0700, Winston
wrote:

I could lean the (nearly) retracted ladder against
a ceiling joist, climb it and fix the 3rd leg adapter
over the top of the joist, clip the cables to the
bottom of the ladder, then extend the ladder to
working height.

Howzbout the plywood on top of the ceiling joists with a stepladder on
top of that, if you need the extra height? Rope it down as necessary
for safety. I have 4', 6', and 8' stepladders and would use the one
with the best fit. Stabilizing the joists can be as simple as wedging
(or nailing on) a couple of studs below the center joist you'll be
standing on.


What could possibly go wrong?

Is that the same as "Hey, hold my beer and WATCH THIS!"?

--
A sound mind in a sound body is a short but full description
of a happy state in this world.
-- John Locke

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 02:51:14 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:11:37 -0700, Winston
wrote:

I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

I can't help your issue, but this is a standard orchard ladder. I have
six of them in three different heights. I guess three leg ladders are
too expensive for the public, you don't see them in the big box
stores. But they are WAY better on uneven ground and far more
portable.

They're also much better at encroaching into a tree's canopy. I
borrowed one from my girlfriend when picking my apples, back when I
had both.

--
A sound mind in a sound body is a short but full description
of a happy state in this world.
-- John Locke

Winston wrote:

What could possibly go wrong?

I dunno, so you'd better set up a bunch of camcorders. ;-)

Have Fun!
Rich

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:07:19 -0700
Winston wrote:

snip
I could lean the (nearly) retracted ladder against
a ceiling joist,

In case you haven't solved this yet...

You might be able to lean the extension ladder against the ceiling
joist and then lash that part of the ladder to the joist. Now pull one
of your vehicles up to the bottom of the ladder, just butting the
bumper up against it. That should keep the bottom from sliding out.
Possibly lash the ladder to the bumper too, keep it from moving
side-to-side. Pocket the keys to vehicle.

If you can't line up a vehicle to hold the bottom... Bolt the bottom to
one of the pallets you recently procured and then load the pallet down,
paving bricks ;-) , sand bags, heavy friend Bubba...

Slide the top portion up into position and have at it. The top should be
okay without any support albeit a bit unnerving for those afraid of
heights.

I'd come help you with it (sounds better than repairing, painting our
garage) but it would be one heck of a drive.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:07:19 -0700
wrote:

snip
I could lean the (nearly) retracted ladder against
a ceiling joist,

In case you haven't solved this yet...

You might be able to lean the extension ladder against the ceiling
joist and then lash that part of the ladder to the joist. Now pull one
of your vehicles up to the bottom of the ladder, just butting the
bumper up against it. That should keep the bottom from sliding out.
Possibly lash the ladder to the bumper too, keep it from moving
side-to-side. Pocket the keys to vehicle.

I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

If you can't line up a vehicle to hold the bottom... Bolt the bottom to
one of the pallets you recently procured and then load the pallet down,
paving bricks ;-) , sand bags, heavy friend Bubba...

I would need a Bubba that was significantly more
massive than yours truly. (The mind boggles.)

Slide the top portion up into position and have at it. The top should be
okay without any support albeit a bit unnerving for those afraid of
heights.

After looking at the ladder, I'm not left with the 'warm fuzzies'.

Here's why:
When my extension ladder is used 'conventionally', constrained
at the ends by Earth at the bottom and House at the top, the
force of my Mass near the top is (at worst case) distributed
among:

1) The latches at the top of the bottom section

2) The bottom of the top rails bearing against a few rungs
of the bottom section


OTOH, Constrained against Bubba's mass x coefficient of
friction at the bottom and the Joist near the bottom
of the top section, my Mass is only distributed among:


1) About 2 sq. inches of 0.063" thick aluminum at the
bottom of the top section bearing against about
2 sq. inches of 0.063" thick aluminum near the
top of the bottom section.

2) The latches at the top of the bottom section

My admittedly creative 'minds eye' sees the ladder
"unzipping" from the bottom of the top section as
I do a face plant on the far side of the joist.
Me no like!

I'd come help you with it (sounds better than
repairing, painting our garage) but it would be
one heck of a drive.

That would border on the 'impractical', I agree.
Esp. since it would mean I'd have to drive back
to help with repairing and painting your garage!

--Winston

Winston wrote:

Paul Drahn wrote:
On 9/19/2011 9:11 PM, Winston wrote:
I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

(...)

Have you investigated these articulated ladders that can fold and latch
in at least three places in the legs? I don't know the name or brand,
but the guy who installed our latest over-the-air internet antenna used
one and it looked pretty strong.

The top of the ladder wants to be about 12' in the air.
I suspect that would require an articulated ladder
specified in the 28' region. Nearest I can find is this
26' unit. It is really nice but far more than I want to
pay for a 'single use' tool:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LIT...N32?Pid=search

I guess what I would like to see is an adapter that bolts
on to the top rung of my extension ladder using a yoke
that adapts a piece of 2" conduit as a third leg.
Perhaps aircraft cables from the bottom of the leg
to the legs of the ladder for stability.

I could lean the (nearly) retracted ladder against
a ceiling joist, climb it and fix the 3rd leg adapter
over the top of the joist, clip the cables to the
bottom of the ladder, then extend the ladder to
working height.


Rent one.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 13:20:55 -0700
Winston wrote:

snip
OTOH, Constrained against Bubba's mass x coefficient of
friction at the bottom and the Joist near the bottom
of the top section, my Mass is only distributed among:


1) About 2 sq. inches of 0.063" thick aluminum at the
bottom of the top section bearing against about
2 sq. inches of 0.063" thick aluminum near the
top of the bottom section.

2) The latches at the top of the bottom section

After I sent my "idea" it occurred to me you might have a wood
extension ladder which wouldn't work very well for what I had in mind.
I was thinking of the type 1A or 1 fiberglass or aluminum models that
use an interlocking track the full length. Like this:

http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/...?series_id=139

You still should be able to make this work though, unless you can
borrow a better suited model from a neighbor, relative...

Do what I said before (lash to joist and vehicle at bottom) then extend
the top fly section to desired position. Then take some rope and tie
the two sections together at the bottom of the top section. Keep tying
until you feel comfortable that the two sections aren't going
anywhere...

I'm pretty fit yet for a late middle age old fart, so doing things
like that doesn't bother me a great deal. Of course I know people who
wouldn't dream of trying anything like that, even when they were young
and supple ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 13:20:55 -0700
wrote:

snip
OTOH, Constrained against Bubba's mass x coefficient of
friction at the bottom and the Joist near the bottom
of the top section, my Mass is only distributed among:


1) About 2 sq. inches of 0.063" thick aluminum at the
bottom of the top section bearing against about
2 sq. inches of 0.063" thick aluminum near the
top of the bottom section.

2) The latches at the top of the bottom section

After I sent my "idea" it occurred to me you might have a wood
extension ladder which wouldn't work very well for what I had in mind.
I was thinking of the type 1A or 1 fiberglass or aluminum models that
use an interlocking track the full length. Like this:

http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/...?series_id=139

You still should be able to make this work though, unless you can
borrow a better suited model from a neighbor, relative...

The pity is that I have a nice ag ladder that would work really well.
It won't fit in the garage, though.

Do what I said before (lash to joist and vehicle at bottom) then extend
the top fly section to desired position. Then take some rope and tie
the two sections together at the bottom of the top section. Keep tying
until you feel comfortable that the two sections aren't going
anywhere...

That lever arm still bugs me greatly.
My ~300 lbs. dangling in space is gonna put some real torque
on whatever tiny overlap there is, in a direction the ladder
was never designed to handle. Short of full-length welds
to hold the sections together, I don't see a way to keep the
ladder in one piece through the operation.

I'm pretty fit yet for a late middle age old fart, so doing things
like that doesn't bother me a great deal. Of course I know people who
wouldn't dream of trying anything like that, even when they were young
and supple ;-)

Wayell, I was never fit, even as a young'un.
I've been on the roof several times using my agricultural ladder
to do my fan installation and that doesn't bother me at all.

I suspect that the quickest, safest, cheapest answer is just to jump
back on the roof, remove the weather cap, impeller, motor and support
frame on my fan and just tidy up the round opening underneath using
some sanding cylinders. Reassemble everything and Bob's My Uncle.

Thanks for your thoughts on this Leon.
I appreciate it.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
I have a very awkward project location above the ceiling
joists (and gas pipe and electrical conduit) in my
garage. I don't get to move the location.

It would be very convenient if I could extend and
assemble my aluminum extension ladder (in place)
to a telescoping third leg for use as an 'agricultural'
ladder.
http://www.stokesladders.com/img/lad...num-tripod.jpg

That way, I could climb over all the obstructions
without disturbing anything. Note that there is not
enough clearance to use a step ladder in this awful
location and there is no safe place to rest the top
of an extension ladder.

My Google-Fu has failed to uncover a good answer.
This is as close as I have come:
http://www.stokesladders.com/product...-third-leg.asp

It looks promising but there is not enough information
for me to understand what this product does. I assume it
is only an accessory to their brand of ladder.

How would you solve this problem?

--Winston

(I want to clean up the hole I cut in the ceiling.
It's the right size and works great but it is not
super nice looking. I have the fan mounted in
anticipation of rain and I really don't
want to take it apart to access from the roof.)

What would *I* do?
1. I'd stop looking at it.
2. I'd forget about it.

Tain't worth all the risk you're facing.
How about just hiding it? Maybe put some lights on the bottom
of the ceiling joists so you can't see above?
Art

Artemus wrote:

(...)

What would *I* do?
1. I'd stop looking at it.
2. I'd forget about it.

Tain't worth all the risk you're facing.
How about just hiding it? Maybe put some lights on the bottom
of the ceiling joists so you can't see above?
Art

Yup. I believe that you are right.

The new hole I cut is actually more attractive than the
random off-center trapezoid placed by the roofers, so
I should stop stressing and move on to more important
things. I thought about placing a grille but I didn't
want to take the efficiency hit.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Art.

--Winston

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:52:34 -0700
Winston wrote:

snip
The pity is that I have a nice ag ladder that would work really well.
It won't fit in the garage, though.

One last idea, take some pictures of your garage in the area you need
to get at and post them some place that we can all look at them. If
nothing else you should get lots of amusing suggestions. Some might
even be doable ;-)

snip
That lever arm still bugs me greatly.
My ~300 lbs. dangling in space is gonna put some real torque
on whatever tiny overlap there is, in a direction the ladder
was never designed to handle...

I weigh ~170 lbs (6ft 2in tall), maybe why I'm a bit more daring. I
sympathize with your limitations in this area... I still think though
that if the ladder is within its spec range lapping wise you should be
okay. You could take some rope and basically make a whip stitch up both
legs:

http://www.holiday-crafts-and-creati...ip-stitch.html

Use a good rubber strap to tension the slack in the stitching. This
would be pretty solid for a temporary setup.

If the ladder has to be extended that far above the ceiling joist
though, I would think you would have room to lay a sheet of plywood on
top of the ceiling joist and work off that platform with another step
ladder or something (I think Larry mentioned this).

Well... think I've beat this one to death, unless you post some
pictures or something

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:52:34 -0700
wrote:

snip
The pity is that I have a nice ag ladder that would work really well.
It won't fit in the garage, though.

One last idea, take some pictures of your garage in the area you need
to get at and post them some place that we can all look at them. If
nothing else you should get lots of amusing suggestions. Some might
even be doable ;-)

Apologies to all while I continue to lash the deceased equine.

snip
That lever arm still bugs me greatly.
My ~300 lbs. dangling in space is gonna put some real torque
on whatever tiny overlap there is, in a direction the ladder
was never designed to handle...

I weigh ~170 lbs (6ft 2in tall), maybe why I'm a bit more daring.

(One man's 'daring' is another man's...)

I sympathize with your limitations in this area...

Thank you Leon.

I still think though
that if the ladder is within its spec range lapping wise you should be
okay. You could take some rope and basically make a whip stitch up both
legs:

http://www.holiday-crafts-and-creati...ip-stitch.html

Use a good rubber strap to tension the slack in the stitching. This
would be pretty solid for a temporary setup.

Nup. Ain't gonna do it.

I don't want my last thought to be "I *knew* it was dangerous"!
Bending a fully extended ladder backwards is probably going
to result in the failure of that ladder. The rope and rubber
strap will only keep the pieces together so that the coroner
can arrive at a conclusion (after he stops laughing).

If the ladder has to be extended that far above the ceiling joist
though, I would think you would have room to lay a sheet of plywood on
top of the ceiling joist and work off that platform with another step
ladder or something (I think Larry mentioned this).

The top of the 2 x's host the gas pipe and electrical conduit.
Those're the things I don't want to disturb.

Well... think I've beat this one to death, unless you post some
pictures or something

As Artie mentioned yesterday, the gain ain't worth the pain.
I have many other (high priority) "honey-do's" on the list
so I'm going to do them instead.

Thank you for your thoughts.

--Winston