Me too - that 9KW one is air cooled, with the permanent magnet "sealed" generator end and "Silent Pack" fully enclosed motor would be perfect for things like that - Small and easy to find a place for.

Fit your sailboat with an Azi-Pod or two.

I started looking at Hatz because nobody in the US makes a good reliable _small_ 1- or 2-cyl diesel for little uses. (I was originally thinking about making a *Real* Diesel-Electric Locomotive in 7-1/2" gauge with a 90V generator and traction motors.) And the 3-Cyl Kubotas for Reefers are going to be a bit too big to fit in a scale F-7A/B set.

Diesel is a lot less hazardous to carry on a boat, and if you have a source for B85 Bio-Diesel...

Looks like the cooling fan is sandwiched on the tail end of the engine between the engine and generator, and there isn't even an accessory drive or rope pull coming out the "front" - this might be a problem if you need to recoil start it. Or you want to hang a Sanden AC Compressor off the front end..

Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50 Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.

And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.

On 9/13/2011 11:52 PM, Bruce Bergman wrote:
Me too - that 9KW one is air cooled, with the permanent magnet "sealed" generator end and "Silent Pack" fully enclosed motor would be perfect for things like that - Small and easy to find a place for.

Fit your sailboat with an Azi-Pod or two.

I started looking at Hatz because nobody in the US makes a good reliable _small_ 1- or 2-cyl diesel for little uses. (I was originally thinking about making a *Real* Diesel-Electric Locomotive in 7-1/2" gauge with a 90V generator and traction motors.) And the 3-Cyl Kubotas for Reefers are going to be a bit too big to fit in a scale F-7A/B set.

Diesel is a lot less hazardous to carry on a boat, and if you have a source for B85 Bio-Diesel...

Looks like the cooling fan is sandwiched on the tail end of the engine between the engine and generator, and there isn't even an accessory drive or rope pull coming out the "front" - this might be a problem if you need to recoil start it. Or you want to hang a Sanden AC Compressor off the front end.

Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50 Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.

And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.


http://www.hatz-diesel.com/index.php

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...0743_200310743

And a Hatz 10 electric start used to power a Paceship 25
http://paceshipseastwind25.wordpress...ngine-options/

Seems like there are a lot of small air cooled diesels used in Asia...

How big would that 1800 rpm generator be physically?
That sounds sweet (bad pun but true!)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Bergman
wrote:

Me too - that 9KW one is air cooled, with the permanent magnet "sealed" generator end and "Silent Pack" fully enclosed motor would be perfect for things like that - Small and easy to find a place for.

Fit your sailboat with an Azi-Pod or two.

I started looking at Hatz because nobody in the US makes a good reliable _small_ 1- or 2-cyl diesel for little uses. (I was originally thinking about making a *Real* Diesel-Electric Locomotive in 7-1/2" gauge with a 90V generator and traction motors.) And the 3-Cyl Kubotas for Reefers are going to be a bit too big to fit in a scale F-7A/B set.

Diesel is a lot less hazardous to carry on a boat, and if you have a source for B85 Bio-Diesel...

Looks like the cooling fan is sandwiched on the tail end of the engine between the engine and generator, and there isn't even an accessory drive or rope pull coming out the "front" - this might be a problem if you need to recoil start it. Or you want to hang a Sanden AC Compressor off the front end.

Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50 Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.

And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.


Bruce!! Where the hell have you been hiding out???

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

Bruce Bergman wrote:
Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50
Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V
option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.

And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole
SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.

There are lots of small diesel units for sailboats available. They are
priced like most anything else for sailboats - on the assumption that if
you can pay for a sailboat, you have money to burn...I was looking into
them for my cogeneration system when I thought I was going to be
off-grid and trying to run a shop (no compact florescent lathes, so real
power still required) but it turned out that the crash of 2008 and the
expense of doing a good offgrid system right combined to get me on the
grid after all.

The practical approach on a boat that already has an inverter is to just
use the generator to make DC for the batteries (and run refrigeration
compressors, if desired, and make hot water with its waste heat) and let
the inverter worry about making any 120/240 required. At sailboat prices
you can even get an alternator/throttle controller that will 3-stage
charge the batteries and run the motor slower as less power is called
for.

The Hatz units are loud. I've met a few in person, and I'd be surprised
if the "silent pack" is anything but a misleading name (but I haven't
met one of those, specifically.) They are, however, a pretty reliable
engine, by such reports as I've heard. Some of the other sail-boat units
use tiny watercooled Kubota engines which Kubota doesn't normally import
to the US (thus, I suppose, greymarket as well as with the sailboat
premium price attached.)

What I ended up buying, used, at a more obtanium price, was a Northern
Lights (not to be confused with north star) 3 cyl liquid-cooled diesel
with air-cooled generator end. They come a bit smaller - a friend with
an actual boat has the 6KW version. They are 1800 rpm units, which are a
lot less annoying to be around, and also more likely to make the long
haul than 3600 rpm units. My understanding is that they are domestic
production still, and they have a good reputation for working. Given the
overall reliability of the grid around here, I'm keeping the thing, even
though I got on-grid in the end.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On 9/14/2011 7:31 AM, John B. wrote:


http://www.hatz-diesel.com/index.php

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...0743_200310743

And a Hatz 10 electric start used to power a Paceship 25
http://paceshipseastwind25.wordpress...ngine-options/

Seems like there are a lot of small air cooled diesels used in Asia...

How big would that 1800 rpm generator be physically?
That sounds sweet (bad pun but true!)

Air cooled diesels (had one) are extremely noisy. One of the added
advantages of a liquid cooling system is it silences a great deal of
the mechanical noises.

A 9 HP would be about a 5 Kw generator and would be ~about~ 3' X 2 ' X
2' if it is on a skid with a frame and fuel tank, electric starter,
battery, etc.

By the way, hand starting small air cooled diesels with a pull rope is
a definite art. Do not assume that because you can start a lawnmower
or an outboard that you will ever get the diesel to go :-)


I hear you about the noise (huh?)

But that is an electric start engine.

I wouldn't try to start my Blazer with a rope either!

On 9/14/2011 8:28 AM, Ecnerwal wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Only problem I can see is the only brochure up shows they are 240/330V 3PH 50
Hz or 480/5XX 3Ph 50 Hz 3,000 RPM. Doesn't even list a Single Phase 120/240V
option, let alone 120/208 3Ph.

And you might want to take the performance hit of 1800 RPM and a 4-pole
SP/6-pole 3Ph generator rather than listen to it straining at 3600.

There are lots of small diesel units for sailboats available. They are
priced like most anything else for sailboats - on the assumption that if
you can pay for a sailboat, you have money to burn...I was looking into
them for my cogeneration system when I thought I was going to be
off-grid and trying to run a shop (no compact florescent lathes, so real
power still required) but it turned out that the crash of 2008 and the
expense of doing a good offgrid system right combined to get me on the
grid after all.

The practical approach on a boat that already has an inverter is to just
use the generator to make DC for the batteries (and run refrigeration
compressors, if desired, and make hot water with its waste heat) and let
the inverter worry about making any 120/240 required. At sailboat prices
you can even get an alternator/throttle controller that will 3-stage
charge the batteries and run the motor slower as less power is called
for.

The Hatz units are loud. I've met a few in person, and I'd be surprised
if the "silent pack" is anything but a misleading name (but I haven't
met one of those, specifically.) They are, however, a pretty reliable
engine, by such reports as I've heard. Some of the other sail-boat units
use tiny watercooled Kubota engines which Kubota doesn't normally import
to the US (thus, I suppose, greymarket as well as with the sailboat
premium price attached.)

What I ended up buying, used, at a more obtanium price, was a Northern
Lights (not to be confused with north star) 3 cyl liquid-cooled diesel
with air-cooled generator end. They come a bit smaller - a friend with
an actual boat has the 6KW version. They are 1800 rpm units, which are a
lot less annoying to be around, and also more likely to make the long
haul than 3600 rpm units. My understanding is that they are domestic
production still, and they have a good reputation for working. Given the
overall reliability of the grid around here, I'm keeping the thing, even
though I got on-grid in the end.


Can you give us a line or two, E?

Blowed up the computer that had Agent on it, and didn't bother reloading it as the version I was up to didn't like Vista much. Going through Google Groups just cause I dont have money to toss around on upgrades, work is spotty - But I'm betting you know that tune.

Oh, Richard? I got a one-sentence response from Hatz USA: We are not prepared to sell that model in the USA at this time.

Damn. Looked compact enough to solve a lot of people's problems. And exciter cranking means never hearing someone try to start a running engine and take out the ring gear.

-- Bruce --

On 9/15/2011 1:19 AM, Bruce Bergman wrote:
Blowed up the computer that had Agent on it, and didn't bother reloading it as the version I was up to didn't like Vista much. Going through Google Groups just cause I dont have money to toss around on upgrades, work is spotty - But I'm betting you know that tune.

Oh, Richard? I got a one-sentence response from Hatz USA: We are not prepared to sell that model in the USA at this time.

Damn. Looked compact enough to solve a lot of people's problems. And exciter cranking means never hearing someone try to start a running engine and take out the ring gear.

-- Bruce--


One sentence huh?

O-Kay...



So they reward us evil for good, and hatred for our love.

Appoint a wicked man against them; let an accuser bring them to
trial.

When they are tried, let them come forth guilty; let their prayer be
counted as sin!

May their days be few; may another seize their goods!

May their children be fatherless, and their wives widows!

May their children wander about and beg; may they be driven out of
the ruins they inhabit.

May the creditor seize all that they have; may strangers plunder the
fruits of their toil!

Let there be none to extend kindness to them, nor any to pity their
fatherless children!

May their posterity be cut off; may their names be blotted out in
the second generation!