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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/9/2011 11:24 PM, Richard wrote:
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we employ equations first to determine feasability |
#3
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 1:32 AM, Bill wrote:
On 9/9/2011 11:24 PM, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we employ equations first to determine feasability Ok, show and tell! |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:36:58 -0500, Richard
wrote: On 9/10/2011 1:32 AM, Bill wrote: On 9/9/2011 11:24 PM, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we employ equations first to determine feasability Ok, show and tell! Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use 40btu per pound. That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to do the weekend. maybe buy ten batteries. Karl |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
Ok, show and tell! Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use 40btu per pound. That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to do the weekend. maybe buy ten batteries. Karl I just looked it up. Dry ice packs more punch than i thought 250 BTU per pound. or twenty pounds an hour to equal that 5000 BTU ac. You'd only need 1000 lbs. to do the weekend. |
#6
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide and all. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Karl Townsend" wrote in message ... I just looked it up. Dry ice packs more punch than i thought 250 BTU per pound. or twenty pounds an hour to equal that 5000 BTU ac. You'd only need 1000 lbs. to do the weekend. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sep 10, 8:58*am, Karl Townsend
wrote: Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use 40btu per pound. Karl Not the numbers I remember from high school. But it would take a lot of ice. If I remember correctly a ton of airconditioning ( one ton of ice melting in 24 hours) is 12,000 btu's per hour. Dan |
#8
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
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#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 7:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use 40btu per pound. That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to do the weekend. maybe buy ten batteries. Karl Here is what I got this morning from Geof. You only get 241 BTUs/Lb of dry ice. 5000 BTU/241 = 20.7 LBs of dry ice/hr or about 500 lbs/day. Cost/lb $1, so at minimum you're spending $500/day My 16000 BTU AC can't keep up with 100 degree temps. A 5K unit certainly can't. |
#10
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:58:04 -0500, Richard
wrote: On 9/10/2011 7:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote: Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand 9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use 40btu per pound. That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu 25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to do the weekend. maybe buy ten batteries. Karl Here is what I got this morning from Geof. You only get 241 BTUs/Lb of dry ice. 5000 BTU/241 = 20.7 LBs of dry ice/hr or about 500 lbs/day. Cost/lb $1, so at minimum you're spending $500/day My 16000 BTU AC can't keep up with 100 degree temps. A 5K unit certainly can't. Doesnt it also have some small difference if one is trying to cool a 2000 sqft house...or a 100 sq foot enclosed cabin in a boat? Gunner -- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince". |
#11
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
That was also my thought -- dry ice doesn't absorb much BTU.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Richard" wrote in message m... have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we employ equations first to determine feasability Ok, show and tell! |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
"Richard" wrote in message news I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Lookup swamp coolers if you want to go the ice route. Biggest problem with any non a/c solution is the amount of humidity produced by other cooling methods - which usually ends up with hot damp(er) air rather than cold dry air. |
#13
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote: I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. -- RoRo |
#14
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, wrote: I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. When it's 112 in the shade? Water temp was about 87. |
#15
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
Richard wrote in
m: On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, wrote: I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. When it's 112 in the shade? Water temp was about 87. Maybe at the surface, or in really shallow water. You've got a huge heatsink to work with, and as long as the water from down deep is cooler than the dewpoint, it should also remove humidity. Not sure how you could do it under way, but lowering a hose over the side long enough to get to cooler water would work when you are tied up. Doug White |
#16
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sep 10, 5:38*am, Richard wrote:
What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. When it's 112 in the shade? Water temp was about 87. Is that water temperature at the surface? What is the water temperature ten feet down? Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period. Dan |
#18
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sep 10, 10:08*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Another approach might be to use a water bed. *That 87 degree water is about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down right chilly. *Doing something like that could keep you comfortable while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period. The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". * A water bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to stability. I should have said " something like a water bed." You would not that much mass. With a lot less mass you would probably want some way to circulate water through the " marine water bed ". And a PIC to monitor the temperature and turn the pump on and off as necessary. Dan |
#19
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 9:08 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In articled99a4d77-d1a4-47b3-82f4- , says... On Sep 10, 5:38 am, wrote: What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. When it's 112 in the shade? Water temp was about 87. Is that water temperature at the surface? What is the water temperature ten feet down? Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period. The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". A water bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to stability. That's an important point, of course. MY boat is 26 feet long, 10 feet beam, and displaces about 6000 pounds. Call is 500 cubic feet of interior volume. That much water would be way over weight - a large water bed could weight 2500 to 3000 pounds! Not to mention what could happen when tacking! Ok, it was a hair-brained idea. But an interesting discussion. |
#20
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
Richard on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:38:19 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, wrote: I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. When it's 112 in the shade? Water temp was about 87. That's a 25 degree (F) [13 C] differential. Remember, heat pumps "move" the heat from one area to another. In essence, a heat pump would be trying to "heat all outdoors" - or the entire lake, as the case may be. One calorie per gram (of water) per degree - it is going to take a lot of calories out of your boat to raise the temp of the lake from 48C to 49C. That is what you have to work with. -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#21
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 12:25 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:38:19 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, wrote: I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump. When it's 112 in the shade? Water temp was about 87. That's a 25 degree (F) [13 C] differential. Remember, heat pumps "move" the heat from one area to another. In essence, a heat pump would be trying to "heat all outdoors" - or the entire lake, as the case may be. One calorie per gram (of water) per degree - it is going to take a lot of calories out of your boat to raise the temp of the lake from 48C to 49C. That is what you have to work with. Ah yes, the global-warming types would have a fit - and I'd have to wear a heavy coat (at least!). |
#22
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? -- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince". |
#23
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? If he's on the water and needs a/c, probably. As a matter of fact, he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have to dry it once. Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting, I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain! Pete Keillor |
#24
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 6:56 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? If he's on the water and needs a/c, probably. As a matter of fact, he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have to dry it once. Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting, I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain! Pete Keillor Pete, start a rain dance. Do you know why a rain dance always works? It's because you don't stop dancing until it rains! |
#25
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#26
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:07:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water. Gunner -- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince". |
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:05:05 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water. Okay, on a boat. ("Would you like them on your goat? Would you eat them in your coat?") err, never mind, the heat's gotten to me. All the way up to 82 today. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#28
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:26:21 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:05:05 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water. Okay, on a boat. ("Would you like them on your goat? Would you eat them in your coat?") A dry wind blows o'er my moat. Doan breathe it lest you bloat. err, never mind, the heat's gotten to me. All the way up to 82 today. 96 here yesterday, Doc. -- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw |
#29
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:07:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700 Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? giggle, snort, guffaw -- Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power. -- Seneca |
#30
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 2011-09-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... [ ... ] Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? Likely so, most of the time. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#31
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 10 Sep 2011 21:36:02 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2011-09-10, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard wrote: I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... [ ... ] Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? On a boat? Likely so, most of the time. Enjoy, DoN. Im curious if that is indeed true, given the absolutely low humidity in Texas at the moment. Shrug...just courious. Gunner -- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince". |
#32
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? Interesting point, Gunner. THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average. Probably because of the high temps. Obviously it would be a better idea than ice. |
#33
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard
wrote: On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? Interesting point, Gunner. THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average. Probably because of the high temps. Obviously it would be a better idea than ice. While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the working range. Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April. Gunner -- "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince". |
#34
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard wrote: On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? Interesting point, Gunner. THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average. Probably because of the high temps. Obviously it would be a better idea than ice. While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the working range. Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April. Gunner Here is a chart showing the temp/humidity effectiveness of a swamp box. You're doing much better than it shows for your conditions. Art |
#35
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
"Artemus" wrote in message ... "Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:14:13 -0500, Richard wrote: On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: Humidity too high for a swamp cooler? Interesting point, Gunner. THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average. Probably because of the high temps. Obviously it would be a better idea than ice. While its on the humid side for a swamp cooler..its still within the working range. Its currently 102, with a humidity of 42%..and the swamp cooler is keeping the inside of my home down to about 78ish I expect some rain this evening. First rain since last April. Gunner Here is a chart showing the temp/humidity effectiveness of a swamp box. You're doing much better than it shows for your conditions. Art Oops. http://www.air-n-water.com/Common-Swamp-Mistakes.htm Art |
#36
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke, might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter. My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Richard" wrote in message news I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it open to the larger group as well. I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time... A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend. If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive approach. But we don't - and can't. So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes), "Simplicate, and add lightness". Statement of Problem: I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time. Independent of dock power. With as low of a battery load as possible. Proposed Solution: A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large amounts of air across the cooler. A sketch at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid. But what to make the rest of it from? Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred! A pump that can handle antifreeze? High torque low power 12 volt DC motors? What to use for the heat exchangers? Coils of tubing? Or auto parts? Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells), what am I missing? Thanks all, Richard |
#37
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 8:15 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator, off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke, might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled (chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter. My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds. I dunno, Storm. First up, my outboard is a 4 stroke water cooled (Yamaha 9.9), and I drive up to Oklahoma to the Jet Petroleum station to buy (non- alcohol ) gas for it (19 miles - big deal). So it doesn't used mixed fuel. That just started a couple of months ago because the marina could no longer supply non-alcohol fuel. This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in it. I have a small window air conditioner for the boat which works quite well at the dock. But this summer is has been earning it's keep at home. Two small window units take a huge load off the ancient central air system and have cut our summer electric bills in half - even in this high temp summer. Anyway, the AC unit is supposedly rated at 750 watts. That would mean the gen set would be running at 3/4 power all the time. and I dunno about start surges! Is it this one? That's not a bad unit for the buck. They used to have them on the shelf at Northern Tools, but all gone now. But I think I saw one at Costco recently. http://tinyurl.com/3atuzxh http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CHYQ8gIwBw |
#38
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
(chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds. I dunno, Storm. First up, my outboard is a 4 stroke water cooled (Yamaha 9.9), and I drive up to Oklahoma to the Jet Petroleum station to buy (non- alcohol ) gas for it (19 miles - big deal). So it doesn't used mixed fuel. CY: Oh, well. Good idea gone to naught. That just started a couple of months ago because the marina could no longer supply non-alcohol fuel. This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in it. CY: I'm guessing you're better off with pure gas, if at all possible. There is a web site, I think it is pure gas dot com, that has listings of stations with real gasoline. I have a small window air conditioner for the boat which works quite well at the dock. But this summer is has been earning it's keep at home. Two small window units take a huge load off the ancient central air system and have cut our summer electric bills in half - even in this high temp summer. CY: Good on you! Might be your new window AC are more efficient. Your central AC may also need service. Or, it can be an older unit. Anyway, the AC unit is supposedly rated at 750 watts. That would mean the gen set would be running at 3/4 power all the time. and I dunno about start surges! CY: Wish we lived closer, I'd offer to try your AC on my genny. Actually, I could try mine on my genny, I guess. Is it this one? That's not a bad unit for the buck. They used to have them on the shelf at Northern Tools, but all gone now. But I think I saw one at Costco recently. http://tinyurl.com/3atuzxh http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CHYQ8gIwBw CY: Yep, that's the one. Mine is a TG-1200. Bought it on Ebay, maybe three or four years ago. |
#39
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/10/2011 9:34 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
(chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter. My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds. This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in it. CY: I'm guessing you're better off with pure gas, if at all possible. There is a web site, I think it is pure gas dot com, that has listings of stations with real gasoline. Not .com, .org! http://pure-gas.org Not a single station in Dallas-Fort Worth. Denison shows Grandpappy Marina, but they quit a couple of months ago. Seals and all, yeah, I'm thinking it's better not to chance it. Besides, I used 8 or 9 whole gallons of gas this summer. It's not like it's a big headache. One trip per summer. 29 pounds, 1000 watts and Honda on the name plate (and price tag - that's a full boat unit!). http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...elid=EU1000IKN 8 amps of 12 volts, but the 120vac (inverter!) might work well with my on-board battery charger. Freedom is power - power is freedom. |
#40
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Special purpose low-power air conditioning - metal involved!
On 9/11/2011 12:10 AM, John B. wrote:
Are you talking about air conditioning while at a mooring or under way? In the tropics everyone has a canopy they put up when moored. Usually full length but at least covering the "living" part of the boat which drops the deck temperature quite a bit. Another scheme is a canopy and big fans, regular 14" or larger floor fans with the pedestal taken off and hung in the boat. A heat pump sucking up seawater and pumping it through a radiator with a fan blowing air through it might also help.Use a submersible bilge pump and a small car radiator or car heater radiator to test the idea. Worth fooling around with... I'll dig around and see what I have to mess with. If this is a workable solution at all, we could just tie into one of the existing thru-hull valves and pick up water there. Mostly it's at the mooring. Under weigh the wind helps keep us cool, and you are busy. But at anchor, and especially at night while trying to sleep, temperature becomes a big factor. |
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