I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

On 9/9/2011 11:24 PM, Richard wrote:
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we
employ equations first to determine feasability

"Richard" wrote in message
news
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12 volt
power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or 5
hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an automotive
approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

Lookup swamp coolers if you want to go the ice route.
Biggest problem with any non a/c solution is the amount
of humidity produced by other cooling methods - which
usually ends up with hot damp(er) air rather than cold dry
air.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.
--
RoRo

On 9/10/2011 1:32 AM, Bill wrote:
On 9/9/2011 11:24 PM, Richard wrote:
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we
employ equations first to determine feasability


Ok, show and tell!

On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500,
wrote:

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.


When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?


--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

If he's on the water and needs a/c, probably. As a matter of fact,
he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's
per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas
coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of
outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have
to dry it once.

Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no
outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks
are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting,
I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain!

Pete Keillor

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:36:58 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/10/2011 1:32 AM, Bill wrote:
On 9/9/2011 11:24 PM, Richard wrote:
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is a reason we
employ equations first to determine feasability


Ok, show and tell!

Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
40btu per pound.

That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
do the weekend.

maybe buy ten batteries.

Karl

Ok, show and tell!

Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
40btu per pound.

That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
do the weekend.

maybe buy ten batteries.

Karl


I just looked it up. Dry ice packs more punch than i thought 250 BTU
per pound. or twenty pounds an hour to equal that 5000 BTU ac. You'd
only need 1000 lbs. to do the weekend.

Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
(chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Richard" wrote in message
news I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like
to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30
amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged,
that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use
an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days
at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to
move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

That was also my thought -- dry ice doesn't absorb much BTU.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Richard" wrote in message
m...


have you calculated the heat capacity of dry ice? there is
a reason we
employ equations first to determine feasability


Ok, show and tell!

While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
and all.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Karl Townsend" wrote in
message ...


I just looked it up. Dry ice packs more punch than i thought
250 BTU
per pound. or twenty pounds an hour to equal that 5000 BTU
ac. You'd
only need 1000 lbs. to do the weekend.

On Sep 10, 8:58*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:

Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
40btu per pound.

Karl

Not the numbers I remember from high school. But it would take a lot
of ice. If I remember correctly a ton of airconditioning ( one ton of
ice melting in 24 hours)
is 12,000 btu's per hour.

Dan

On Sep 10, 5:38*am, Richard wrote:

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.

When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

Is that water temperature at the surface? What is the water
temperature ten feet down?

Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is
about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without
foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down
right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable
while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period.

Dan

Richard wrote in
m:

On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500,
wrote:

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.


When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

Maybe at the surface, or in really shallow water. You've got a huge
heatsink to work with, and as long as the water from down deep is cooler
than the dewpoint, it should also remove humidity. Not sure how you
could do it under way, but lowering a hose over the side long enough to
get to cooler water would work when you are tied up.

Doug White

In article d99a4d77-d1a4-47b3-82f4-
, says...

On Sep 10, 5:38*am, Richard wrote:

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.

When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

Is that water temperature at the surface? What is the water
temperature ten feet down?

Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is
about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without
foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down
right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable
while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period.

The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". A water
bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to
stability.

" fired this volley in news:38bf5938-
:

If I remember correctly a ton of airconditioning ( one ton of
ice melting in 24 hours)
is 12,000 btu's per hour.



Yes, Dan, but you missed a nit.

Water absorbs 80 calories per gram going from 0C ice to 0C water, but
then it also absorbs 1 calorie per gram to increase in temperature one
degree C.

So a gram of water would absorb 80+(say)20 calories going from 0C ice to
20C water.

If you were a creature that was comfortable at 110C, you'd gain an extra
boon, because water absorbs another 540 calories changing from 100C water
to 100C steam.

LLoyd

LLoyd

In article , "Lloyd
E. Sponenburgh" says...

" fired this volley in news:38bf5938-
:

If I remember correctly a ton of airconditioning ( one ton of
ice melting in 24 hours)
is 12,000 btu's per hour.



Yes, Dan, but you missed a nit.

Water absorbs 80 calories per gram going from 0C ice to 0C water, but
then it also absorbs 1 calorie per gram to increase in temperature one
degree C.

So a gram of water would absorb 80+(say)20 calories going from 0C ice to
20C water.

If you were a creature that was comfortable at 110C, you'd gain an extra
boon, because water absorbs another 540 calories changing from 100C water
to 100C steam.

He hasn't "missed a bit". The "ton" rating is a well accepted industry
standard in the US.

Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

On a boat?
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"Stormin Mormon" on Sat, 10 Sep
2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
and all.

So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
use it to charge "soda water".
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"J. Clarke" fired this volley in
in.local:

He hasn't "missed a bit". The "ton" rating is a well accepted industry
standard in the US.

I wasn't talking about the ton rating... he surmised the figures were
wrong because he didn't account for the additional heat absorption from
32F to 60F.

I know what a cooling "ton" is... I'll even bet Stormin' Morman knows.
G, but it only expresses a number of BTUs or calories absorbed per
hour... it does not calculate (or even intend to calculate) how many BTUs
are necessary to cool from one temperature to another. It's only purpose
is to give a unit name to how much heat it takes to melt one ton of ice
-- that means from 0C ice to 0C water; none other.

LLoyd

On Sep 10, 10:08*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:


Another approach might be to use a water bed. *That 87 degree water is
about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without
foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down
right chilly. *Doing something like that could keep you comfortable
while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period.

The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". * A water
bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to
stability.

I should have said " something like a water bed." You would not
that much mass. With a lot less mass you would probably want some way
to circulate water through the " marine water bed ". And a PIC to
monitor the temperature and turn the pump on and off as necessary.

Dan

Richard on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:38:19 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500,
wrote:

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.


When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

That's a 25 degree (F) [13 C] differential. Remember, heat pumps
"move" the heat from one area to another. In essence, a heat pump
would be trying to "heat all outdoors" - or the entire lake, as the
case may be.

One calorie per gram (of water) per degree - it is going to take a
lot of calories out of your boat to raise the temp of the lake from
48C to 49C. That is what you have to work with.

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sep 10, 1:13*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"J. Clarke" fired this volley main.local:



I wasn't talking about the ton rating... he surmised the figures were
wrong because he didn't account for the additional heat absorption from
32F to 60F.


LLoyd

The figures I think are wrong are Karl's 9 btu to melt a lb. of ice.
The numbers I learned in high school were 144 btu's per lb of ice.

Karl is no dummy. But he must be thinking of something else.

Dan

" fired this volley in news:c5ef16f3-
:

The figures I think are wrong are Karl's 9 btu to melt a lb. of ice.
The numbers I learned in high school were 144 btu's per lb of ice.

Karl is no dummy. But he must be thinking of something else.

And you're right.

The "ton" is confusing, too. Most people think the 12K BTU is the amount
of energy necessary to melt a ton of ice -- not so, it's the amount of
energy PER HOUR to melt one ton in 24 hours.

So the total energy required would be 288,000 BTU, and of course, one
two-thousanth of that would be 144 BTU.

LLoyd

FWIW... that last can put the boat cooling project in perspective.

Let's say the cabin was small enough to cool with a 5000BTU AC.

That's 5/12 of a ton, so it would take 5/12 ton of water ice to provide
the same cooling capacity (ignoring the other thing about extra calories
derived from raising the temperature of the water)

Airgas corp. says dry ice has three times the cooling capacity per pound
as does water ice.

So now we only require 5/36 ton of dry ice to cool that cabin for 24
hours.

So that's what... about 278 pounds!

LLoyd G

In article ,
says...

"Stormin Mormon" on Sat, 10 Sep
2011 09:17:29 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
While cooling the boat, the global warming would counteract
all his efforts. Releasing large ammounts of carbon dioxide
and all.

So, pump the CO2 gas into another tank for reuse. Refreeze it, or
use it to charge "soda water".

Or put up a picture of Al Gore and get some darts . . .

"Richard" wrote in message
news
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?

Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?

Thanks all,
Richard

How about powering your existing AC unit from a portable gasoline
or diesel fueled welder/generator? I've seen many of these with 12
volt battery charging outputs.
Art

Pretty much what I suggested, but minus the 120v to 12v to
120v conversion losses.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

How about powering your existing AC unit from a portable
gasoline
or diesel fueled welder/generator? I've seen many of these
with 12
volt battery charging outputs.
Art

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:07:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

On a boat?

Ayup..on a boat. While it may be "on water"..surface humidity may not
be all that high. Winds tend to blow dry air over water.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On 2011-09-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

[ ... ]

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

On a boat? Likely so, most of the time.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:07:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

On a boat?

giggle, snort, guffaw


--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On 9/10/2011 7:58 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Richard, it will take one *hell* of a lot of ice. Dry ice would be
better than water ice but I know the water numbers off hand
9 btu to melt one pound of ice, another 31 btu goin up to 60, so use
40btu per pound.

That 5000 BTU ac running 5 hours is 25000 total btu
25000/40 is 600 lbs. I won't look it up but dry ice might be 6 times
better or 100 lbs. for five hours. Do the math to get better that an
approximation but you can see you'd literally need a ton of dry ice to
do the weekend.

maybe buy ten batteries.

Karl



Here is what I got this morning from Geof.



You only get 241 BTUs/Lb of dry ice.
5000 BTU/241 = 20.7 LBs of dry ice/hr or about 500 lbs/day.
Cost/lb $1, so at minimum you're spending $500/day
My 16000 BTU AC can't keep up with 100 degree temps. A 5K unit
certainly can't.

On 9/10/2011 9:08 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In articled99a4d77-d1a4-47b3-82f4-
, says...

On Sep 10, 5:38 am, wrote:

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.

When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

Is that water temperature at the surface? What is the water
temperature ten feet down?

Another approach might be to use a water bed. That 87 degree water is
about ten degrees cooler that your body and in a water bed without
foam insulation between you and the waterbed mattress will feel down
right chilly. Doing something like that could keep you comfortable
while you sleep and reduce the power needed in a 24 hour period.

The question that comes to my mind is "how big is the boat". A water
bed is a large almost-free surface and it could to really bad things to
stability.

That's an important point, of course.

MY boat is 26 feet long, 10 feet beam, and displaces about 6000 pounds.
Call is 500 cubic feet of interior volume.

That much water would be way over weight - a large water bed could
weight 2500 to 3000 pounds!

Not to mention what could happen when tacking!

Ok, it was a hair-brained idea.

But an interesting discussion.

On 9/10/2011 12:25 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Sat, 10 Sep 2011 04:38:19 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 9/10/2011 4:10 AM, Robert Roland wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500,
wrote:

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

What is the water temperature? It might be possible to simply use a
heat exchanger to dump heat into the water. In thory, it would even be
possible to get the coolant to circulate without a pump.


When it's 112 in the shade?
Water temp was about 87.

That's a 25 degree (F) [13 C] differential. Remember, heat pumps
"move" the heat from one area to another. In essence, a heat pump
would be trying to "heat all outdoors" - or the entire lake, as the
case may be.

One calorie per gram (of water) per degree - it is going to take a
lot of calories out of your boat to raise the temp of the lake from
48C to 49C. That is what you have to work with.



Ah yes, the global-warming types would have a fit - and I'd have to
wear a heavy coat (at least!).

On 9/10/2011 5:56 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

Interesting point, Gunner.

THIS summer, the humidity has been really low - 30 to 40% on average.
Probably because of the high temps.

Obviously it would be a better idea than ice.

On 9/10/2011 6:56 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:56:22 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:24:45 -0500,
wrote:

I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?


Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?


Thanks all,


Richard

Humidity too high for a swamp cooler?

If he's on the water and needs a/c, probably. As a matter of fact,
he'll need to calculate the load from condensation, about 1000 btu's
per lb. of condensate. That's a major load on a/c's on the Texas
coast. You could get a lb. of condensate out of every 1000 cf or so of
outside air, so it's important to recirculate the air so you only have
to dry it once.

Humidity isn't a problem here in central Texas right now. However, no
outside grilling, smoking, welding, or any other open flame or sparks
are allowed, immediate arrest if caught. I don't know about shooting,
I guess muzzleloaders would be a bad idea. Come on, rain!

Pete Keillor


Pete, start a rain dance.

Do you know why a rain dance always works?
It's because you don't stop dancing until it rains!

On 9/10/2011 8:15 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Years ago, I bought a two stroke engine powered generator,
off Ebay. It was about 1,000 watts, and cost about $140 post
paid to my door. I havn't tried to run my AC with it, but
who can tell. Perhaps a two stroke generator would power
your AC? My ETQ is amazingly quiet. Being a two stroke,
might run on the same gas mix you feed your boat motor. My
small engine repair course, they taught us that water cooled
boat motors take a lower grade of mix oil than air cooled
(chainsaw, generator, etc.) Air cooled engines run hotter.
My ETQ generator weighs about 55 pounds.


I dunno, Storm.

First up, my outboard is a 4 stroke water cooled (Yamaha 9.9),
and I drive up to Oklahoma to the Jet Petroleum station to buy (non-
alcohol ) gas for it (19 miles - big deal).
So it doesn't used mixed fuel.

That just started a couple of months ago because the marina could no
longer supply non-alcohol fuel.

This is a 2001 vintage motor and it has never had gasahol in it.


I have a small window air conditioner for the boat which works quite
well at the dock. But this summer is has been earning it's keep at
home. Two small window units take a huge load off the ancient central
air system and have cut our summer electric bills in half - even in this
high temp summer.

Anyway, the AC unit is supposedly rated at 750 watts.
That would mean the gen set would be running at 3/4 power all the time.
and I dunno about start surges!

Is it this one? That's not a bad unit for the buck.
They used to have them on the shelf at Northern Tools, but all gone now.
But I think I saw one at Costco recently.

http://tinyurl.com/3atuzxh

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CHYQ8gIwBw

On 9/10/2011 2:44 PM, Artemus wrote:
wrote in message
news
I've asked a few people about this personally, but I'd like to throw it
open to the larger group as well.

I'm trying to cool the boat for a few days at a time...

A normal 5000 BUT marine air conditioner can pull up to 30 amps of 12
volt power. If my house battery were new and fully charged, that's 4 or
5 hours. That won't get it for even for a weekend.

If we had a diesel engine (and ran it all day) we could use an
automotive approach. But we don't - and can't.

So, quoting Kelly Johnston (one of my favorite heroes),
"Simplicate, and add lightness".

Statement of Problem:
I want to air condition the boat for up to 3 or maybe 4 days at a time.
Independent of dock power.
With as low of a battery load as possible.

Proposed Solution:

A cooler type container with a load of dry ice and a way to move large
amounts of air across the cooler.

A sketch at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cave-1/images/ac-3.jpg

I'm already thinking glycol for the fluid.

But what to make the rest of it from?
Cheap, off the shelf stuff preferred!
A pump that can handle antifreeze?
High torque low power 12 volt DC motors?
What to use for the heat exchangers?
Coils of tubing? Or auto parts?

Other than a drip pan (and a handful of brain cells),
what am I missing?

Thanks all,
Richard

How about powering your existing AC unit from a portable gasoline
or diesel fueled welder/generator? I've seen many of these with 12
volt battery charging outputs.
Art



The thought has wandered through my head a few times.

120 vac units are cheap, and other than disposing of the hot air, easy
to use.

And 12 volts to charge batteries would be a God send after a couple of days.

I think someone is missing the boat by not offering just such a thing
for sailboat use. Probably the liability factor?