Karl Townsend wrote:

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

I used to work at a place with forming presses that leaked. Part of the process used
steam to relax the fiber in our moulding media, anyway, we ended up with a pit full of
hydraulic oil, wood fiber, and water.

We would pump the mess out, run it though a reclaiming system that basically was a pump,
filters, and a plate heated by plant steam that the oil flowed over that boiled off the
water. Seemed to work okay fine for us.

Wes

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:11:03 +0800, wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 17:52:57 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I had to dump the trans-hydraulic oil out of a tractor today. Its
contaminated with water. I've always just replaced it before, but the
price of oil has went nuts. And I'm a bit short right now.

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

You can dry oil contaminated with water by heating it to about
90C/190F for several hours.

I have done this on a large scale ( about 80,000 litres at a time)
at my employers. I was Technical Superintendent of a lubricating oil
manufacturing plant and after about 20 years the steam heating coils
in the blending tanks fractured, releasing steam which condensed into
water and emulsion as the oil was only heated to 60C.

We simply transferred the oil to a sound tank, heated to 90C until
the oil was dry. The test for water is called a "crackle test",
simply put about 10 ml of oil in a test tube and heat with a bunsen
burner or electric heater. If you hear popping sounds, the oil is
still wet, continue drying until there is no popping.

If you have a reasonably heavy gauge 60 litre steel drum with one
or two bungs, fill it no more than about 2/3 full, then you can heat
it safely until it is dry, the oil will not overflow and the water
will evaporate through the bungs. Do not close the bungs. Do not
use an open topped grease pail unless it is 180 kg size and filled
with a maximum of 50 litres. Open containers are dangerous. You
can use a 20 litre drum filled to about 15 litres but they are a
thinner gauge steel and you have to be more careful with the heating
method.

I also have about 60 litres of damp transmission oil to dry from my
tractor, will wait until the end of winter when the weather warms up a
bit.

HTH

Alan,
who has had a much better life since retiring in
1995. No more 5 am starts unless I WANT to go out at that horrible
hour.

Glad to know its a fairly standard thing. I finished today. As the oil
is up to $15 per gallon, I saved $300 for an hour's work. This will be
SOP from now on. Water contamination in the tractor oil is common.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:11:03 +0800, wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 17:52:57 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I had to dump the trans-hydraulic oil out of a tractor today. Its
contaminated with water. I've always just replaced it before, but the
price of oil has went nuts. And I'm a bit short right now.

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

You can dry oil contaminated with water by heating it to about
90C/190F for several hours.

I have done this on a large scale ( about 80,000 litres at a time)
at my employers. I was Technical Superintendent of a lubricating oil
manufacturing plant and after about 20 years the steam heating coils
in the blending tanks fractured, releasing steam which condensed into
water and emulsion as the oil was only heated to 60C.

We simply transferred the oil to a sound tank, heated to 90C until
the oil was dry. The test for water is called a "crackle test",
simply put about 10 ml of oil in a test tube and heat with a bunsen
burner or electric heater. If you hear popping sounds, the oil is
still wet, continue drying until there is no popping.

If you have a reasonably heavy gauge 60 litre steel drum with one
or two bungs, fill it no more than about 2/3 full, then you can heat
it safely until it is dry, the oil will not overflow and the water
will evaporate through the bungs. Do not close the bungs. Do not
use an open topped grease pail unless it is 180 kg size and filled
with a maximum of 50 litres. Open containers are dangerous. You
can use a 20 litre drum filled to about 15 litres but they are a
thinner gauge steel and you have to be more careful with the heating
method.

I also have about 60 litres of damp transmission oil to dry from my
tractor, will wait until the end of winter when the weather warms up a
bit.

HTH

Alan,
who has had a much better life since retiring in
1995. No more 5 am starts unless I WANT to go out at that horrible
hour.

Glad to know its a fairly standard thing. I finished today. As the oil
is up to $15 per gallon, I saved $300 for an hour's work. This will be
SOP from now on. Water contamination in the tractor oil is common.

Karl



15 dollars a gallon sounds very expensive. I buy aws 24 and AWS 46 for
about 25 dollars for a five gallon pail.

John

Karl Townsend wrote:
I had to dump the trans-hydraulic oil out of a tractor today. Its
contaminated with water. I've always just replaced it before, but the
price of oil has went nuts. And I'm a bit short right now.

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

Is there a filter you can use to continuously clear water from
the hydraulic oil onboard the tractor, Karl?

--Winston

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:46:43 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
I had to dump the trans-hydraulic oil out of a tractor today. Its
contaminated with water. I've always just replaced it before, but the
price of oil has went nuts. And I'm a bit short right now.

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

Is there a filter you can use to continuously clear water from
the hydraulic oil onboard the tractor, Karl?

I installed a diesel fuel/water separator on my boss' tow truck a
couple decades ago. Maybe one is available for hydraulic fluid.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:46:43 -0700,
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
I had to dump the trans-hydraulic oil out of a tractor today. Its
contaminated with water. I've always just replaced it before, but the
price of oil has went nuts. And I'm a bit short right now.

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

Is there a filter you can use to continuously clear water from
the hydraulic oil onboard the tractor, Karl?

I installed a diesel fuel/water separator on my boss' tow truck a
couple decades ago. Maybe one is available for hydraulic fluid.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
How do those work? Does the water get trapped in the filter
and you open a valve occasionally to let it out of the system?

--Winston

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 11:01:51 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:46:43 -0700,
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
I had to dump the trans-hydraulic oil out of a tractor today. Its
contaminated with water. I've always just replaced it before, but the
price of oil has went nuts. And I'm a bit short right now.

I'm wondering about putting it in a metal bucket on a hot plate out in
the field. If you heat it to say 200, will it drive the water off?

Is there a filter you can use to continuously clear water from
the hydraulic oil onboard the tractor, Karl?

I installed a diesel fuel/water separator on my boss' tow truck a
couple decades ago. Maybe one is available for hydraulic fluid.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
How do those work? Does the water get trapped in the filter
and you open a valve occasionally to let it out of the system?

The one I installed had a ~1 quart glass filter chamber with a
radiator type drain valve on the bottom. You could see the water
collect in the clear chamber and just opened the valve to release it.
Fuel went into the chamber, water dropped out (immiscible), and a fine
filter above it sent dry fuel to the engine. Similar to this
http://goo.gl/8mJWE I think his was about $100.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

The one I installed had a ~1 quart glass filter chamber with a
radiator type drain valve on the bottom. You could see the water
collect in the clear chamber and just opened the valve to release it.
Fuel went into the chamber, water dropped out (immiscible), and a fine
filter above it sent dry fuel to the engine. Similar to this
http://goo.gl/8mJWE I think his was about $100.

Cool! Thanks.

Sounds like the perfect thing to put at the bottom of
the hydraulic system on Karl's tractor. Opening the
valve every 100 miles has got to be less trouble than
draining and heating the oil.

--Winston

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:11:16 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

The one I installed had a ~1 quart glass filter chamber with a
radiator type drain valve on the bottom. You could see the water
collect in the clear chamber and just opened the valve to release it.
Fuel went into the chamber, water dropped out (immiscible), and a fine
filter above it sent dry fuel to the engine. Similar to this
http://goo.gl/8mJWE I think his was about $100.

Cool! Thanks.

Sounds like the perfect thing to put at the bottom of
the hydraulic system on Karl's tractor. Opening the
valve every 100 miles has got to be less trouble than
draining and heating the oil.

--Winston
I "think" Goldenrod makes a filter that would do the job - but it
would need to be on the return side of the system.

Another possibility is a separate circulating pump running "bypass"
to filter/dry the oil continuously.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 14:30:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

http://goo.gl/8mJWE

That is a Racor fuel filter and is intended for fuel.
They are intended to trap free water in the fuel. The filter, located
in the upper part of the housing is a particle filter and all water
separation takes place in the lower section.

Usually used on diesel engines they work well for fuel as they do
catch nearly all of the free water and any emulsified water can be
injected with no problems. However for "milky oil" I doubt that they
would work well as they won't separate emulsified water.

There are engine oil filters that incorporate a heater and are said to
remove water, although how well they work I cannot comment.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:11:16 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

The one I installed had a ~1 quart glass filter chamber with a
radiator type drain valve on the bottom. You could see the water
collect in the clear chamber and just opened the valve to release it.
Fuel went into the chamber, water dropped out (immiscible), and a fine
filter above it sent dry fuel to the engine. Similar to this
http://goo.gl/8mJWE I think his was about $100.

Cool! Thanks.

Sounds like the perfect thing to put at the bottom of
the hydraulic system on Karl's tractor. Opening the
valve every 100 miles has got to be less trouble than
draining and heating the oil.

Wrong. Those are for diesel fuel, not hydraulic oil. I'm not sure
what they use for mobile oil/water separators.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:02:43 -0400, wrote:

I "think" Goldenrod makes a filter that would do the job - but it
would need to be on the return side of the system.

Another possibility is a separate circulating pump running "bypass"
to filter/dry the oil continuously.

How about a reservoir with a low end and a petcock? Drain it every
Monday morning, or after a couple days downtime. Simpler might be
better. Also, a moisture filter on the vent is in order. That's
probably where most of the water comes from.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On 6/2/2011 8:02 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:11:16 -0700,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

The one I installed had a ~1 quart glass filter chamber with a
radiator type drain valve on the bottom. You could see the water
collect in the clear chamber and just opened the valve to release it.
Fuel went into the chamber, water dropped out (immiscible), and a fine
filter above it sent dry fuel to the engine. Similar to this
http://goo.gl/8mJWE I think his was about $100.

Cool! Thanks.

Sounds like the perfect thing to put at the bottom of
the hydraulic system on Karl's tractor. Opening the
valve every 100 miles has got to be less trouble than
draining and heating the oil.

--Winston
I "think" Goldenrod makes a filter that would do the job - but it
would need to be on the return side of the system.

Another possibility is a separate circulating pump running "bypass"
to filter/dry the oil continuously.

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

Ralph wrote:

(...)

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

It makes one wonder if there is a way to coalesce (de-emulsify)
that oil quickly and cheaply.

--Winston

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:55:23 -0500, Ralph
wrote:

On 6/2/2011 8:02 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:11:16 -0700,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

The one I installed had a ~1 quart glass filter chamber with a
radiator type drain valve on the bottom. You could see the water
collect in the clear chamber and just opened the valve to release it.
Fuel went into the chamber, water dropped out (immiscible), and a fine
filter above it sent dry fuel to the engine. Similar to this
http://goo.gl/8mJWE I think his was about $100.

Cool! Thanks.

Sounds like the perfect thing to put at the bottom of
the hydraulic system on Karl's tractor. Opening the
valve every 100 miles has got to be less trouble than
draining and heating the oil.

--Winston
I "think" Goldenrod makes a filter that would do the job - but it
would need to be on the return side of the system.

Another possibility is a separate circulating pump running "bypass"
to filter/dry the oil continuously.

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

Get yourself some cheap 110 volt hot plates and metal five gallon
pails. I found you can do two gallons in an hour. Or three gallons in
in three hours, four gallons never, too much for the tiny plate.

The water took the seals out of my hydraulic lift arm cylinder. Bet
seal replacment on an elevator would cost a fortune.

Karl

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:56:17 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Ralph wrote:

(...)

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

It makes one wonder if there is a way to coalesce (de-emulsify)
that oil quickly and cheaply.

--Winston

Heat :-) But seriously, when you are processing crude that has
emulsified water in it you install a "heater-Treater" to remove it by
heating the emulsified oil-water mix.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:02:08 -0400, john
wrote:

Glad to know its a fairly standard thing. I finished today. As the oil
is up to $15 per gallon, I saved $300 for an hour's work. This will be
SOP from now on. Water contamination in the tractor oil is common.

Karl



15 dollars a gallon sounds very expensive. I buy aws 24 and AWS 46 for
about 25 dollars for a five gallon pail.

John

Do you mean ISO 24 (22) & ISO 46 or is AWS a brand ?

20 litres is just over 5 mini gallons, which costs about $120
here in Oz, so yours are cheap. I do not count the cheap brands/no
name stuff as many of them do not meet standards - they skimp on
additive. My employer used to manufacture for one of them and
their formulae would NEVER meet even their minimum standard of the
range. I always had to add more additive just to meet their minimum
standard.
My employer has a +/- tolerance of 5% from nominal, some other
major brands are +/- 10% and many "el cheapos" are +/- 20% if you are
lucky. My blending usually hit "spot on" centre of range, as the
formula was designed to do. We once went 11 months without any
errors, about 900 batches. An oil 9% below nominal will be on
specification for a company with +/- 10% tolerance but would be way
off for my employer at 4% below minimum.

Alan

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:28:55 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Wrong. Those are for diesel fuel, not hydraulic oil. I'm not sure
what they use for mobile oil/water separators.

Some sort of centrifuge, basically like a cream separator.

Alan

wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:02:08 -0400,
wrote:

Glad to know its a fairly standard thing. I finished today. As the oil
is up to $15 per gallon, I saved $300 for an hour's work. This will be
SOP from now on. Water contamination in the tractor oil is common.

Karl



15 dollars a gallon sounds very expensive. I buy aws 24 and AWS 46 for
about 25 dollars for a five gallon pail.

John

Do you mean ISO 24 (22)& ISO 46 or is AWS a brand ?

20 litres is just over 5 mini gallons, which costs about $120
here in Oz, so yours are cheap. I do not count the cheap brands/no
name stuff as many of them do not meet standards - they skimp on
additive. My employer used to manufacture for one of them and
their formulae would NEVER meet even their minimum standard of the
range. I always had to add more additive just to meet their minimum
standard.
My employer has a +/- tolerance of 5% from nominal, some other
major brands are +/- 10% and many "el cheapos" are +/- 20% if you are
lucky. My blending usually hit "spot on" centre of range, as the
formula was designed to do. We once went 11 months without any
errors, about 900 batches. An oil 9% below nominal will be on
specification for a company with +/- 10% tolerance but would be way
off for my employer at 4% below minimum.

Alan


The AW is what I should have listed. The products are made by Coast Oil
company and I have been using them for many years. Here is their
website with the product specs.
http://www.coastoil.com/specSheets.html#

The product is sold in many auto stores but I buy it directly from my
oil supplier. They all just about double the price of what I am paying
for it.

John

Winston wrote:
Ralph wrote:

(...)

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

It makes one wonder if there is a way to coalesce (de-emulsify)
that oil quickly and cheaply.

There's some chatter on the net about using A.C. to cause
the water molecules to clump together and drop to the bottom
of the sump; de-emulsifying much more quickly than it does
naturally. I think some smart young engineer could make a
ton of money by supplying a continuous water trap for these
applications.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=-IcgAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&source=gbs_overview_ r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

--Winston

On 04/06/2011 20:54, Winston wrote:
Winston wrote:
Ralph wrote:

(...)

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

It makes one wonder if there is a way to coalesce (de-emulsify)
that oil quickly and cheaply.


On an industrial system with a big problem you might use a vacuum filter
unit as supplied by Pall: removes the moisture by evaporation.

Newshound wrote:

(...)

On an industrial system with a big problem you might use a vacuum filter
unit as supplied by Pall: removes the moisture by evaporation.

Cool!

--Winston

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:54:22 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Winston wrote:
Ralph wrote:

(...)

Our church had flood water get into the elevator hyd oil. The elevator
service co. replaced the oil and put a water filter unit on it for over
60 days. It did NOT remove enough water to talk about. It was a big unit
with a motor,pump and (2 filters that cost us over $200.00 each). The
oil still looks like milk and I can drain a 1/4 cup of pure water out of
the bottom of the reservoir.

It makes one wonder if there is a way to coalesce (de-emulsify)
that oil quickly and cheaply.

There's some chatter on the net about using A.C. to cause
the water molecules to clump together and drop to the bottom
of the sump; de-emulsifying much more quickly than it does
naturally. I think some smart young engineer could make a
ton of money by supplying a continuous water trap for these
applications.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=-IcgAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&source=gbs_overview_ r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

--Winston

It has been in use for years.
http://imistorage.blob.core.windows....ow%20water.pdf
for an example.
Essential it is another type of coalescer.