Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.





Bad valve.
You should be able to rebuild it.

"Steve W." wrote:

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.





Bad valve.
You should be able to rebuild it.

Yep. That looks like one of the newer style steering valves, the one I
rebuilt was older. You should be able to get a rebuild kit with new
seals, O-rings and other small parts to rebuild it at a dealer.

The two critical things to a successful rebuild are cleanliness and
taking a lot of pictures as you tear it down. You don't need to actually
understand how the valve works, just match replacement parts from the
kit to the old parts, replace and put it back together properly. The
rebuild kit is often for several different versions and will usually
contain some parts you won't need.

When I rebuilt my steering valve I used several cans of 3M brake cleaner
to clean everything well (wear nitrile gloves, latex last 2.5 seconds
with that cleaner), and I had a cup of clean hydraulic fluid to dip the
parts in when I was reassembling the valve.

With that being the newer style valve you can get a new one for around
$500 if need be.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:12:50 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.

Yeah, Pete's right. You might be able to clean the valve, and that
just might fix it (seeing the age), but you'll need a new seal kit at
minimum. Be sure to get a good exploded diagram before disassembly,
then keep track of the parts well.

Crud builds up between parts and can gouge channels, so pray for goo
vs. metal filings and farrows. Goo dissolves. G'luck!

--
"I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded
professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who
encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I
learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy
as opposed to intentions."
-- Walter E. Williams

So, there is no bout a dought it at this point, it is the steering
valve? I will have to get a rebuild kit as I am retired and have
never seen ~ $500 bux for a new valve, in a long time.

This is going to be a job but so long as I have you guys as mentors, I
will go ahead.

Can I dig a ditch for you in return?

Joe

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:19:54 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote:

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.





Bad valve.
You should be able to rebuild it.

Yep. That looks like one of the newer style steering valves, the one I
rebuilt was older. You should be able to get a rebuild kit with new
seals, O-rings and other small parts to rebuild it at a dealer.

The two critical things to a successful rebuild are cleanliness and
taking a lot of pictures as you tear it down. You don't need to actually
understand how the valve works, just match replacement parts from the
kit to the old parts, replace and put it back together properly. The
rebuild kit is often for several different versions and will usually
contain some parts you won't need.

When I rebuilt my steering valve I used several cans of 3M brake cleaner
to clean everything well (wear nitrile gloves, latex last 2.5 seconds
with that cleaner), and I had a cup of clean hydraulic fluid to dip the
parts in when I was reassembling the valve.

With that being the newer style valve you can get a new one for around
$500 if need be.

On 3/21/2011 8:55 PM, justme wrote:
So, there is no bout a dought it at this point, it is the steering
valve? I will have to get a rebuild kit as I am retired and have
never seen ~ $500 bux for a new valve, in a long time.

This is going to be a job but so long as I have you guys as mentors, I
will go ahead.

Can I dig a ditch for you in return?

Joe

Post over in alt.fan.tractors also. Once in a while somebody
knowledgeable responds over there.



On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:19:54 -0600, "Pete
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote:

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.





Bad valve.
You should be able to rebuild it.

Yep. That looks like one of the newer style steering valves, the one I
rebuilt was older. You should be able to get a rebuild kit with new
seals, O-rings and other small parts to rebuild it at a dealer.

The two critical things to a successful rebuild are cleanliness and
taking a lot of pictures as you tear it down. You don't need to actually
understand how the valve works, just match replacement parts from the
kit to the old parts, replace and put it back together properly. The
rebuild kit is often for several different versions and will usually
contain some parts you won't need.

When I rebuilt my steering valve I used several cans of 3M brake cleaner
to clean everything well (wear nitrile gloves, latex last 2.5 seconds
with that cleaner), and I had a cup of clean hydraulic fluid to dip the
parts in when I was reassembling the valve.

With that being the newer style valve you can get a new one for around
$500 if need be.

justme wrote:

So, there is no bout a dought it at this point, it is the steering
valve?

It's something like 99% probability. Bad seals in the steering cylinder
could let the steering valve freewheel, but you shouldn't ever have the
steering wheel hard to turn until the wheels move to their limit if it's
a load-reaction type of steering valve, and not even then if it's a non
load-reaction type.

I will have to get a rebuild kit as I am retired and have
never seen ~ $500 bux for a new valve, in a long time.

I would expect a rebuild kit to be under $50. I believe the one for my
Deere 500C was.


This is going to be a job but so long as I have you guys as mentors, I
will go ahead.

It's a bit tedious, but as long as you are organized it's not that bad.


Can I dig a ditch for you in return?

No ditches needed at the moment. I did dig a few back when I had the big
old 500C, but I sold that when I moved. I now have a nice little Kubota
B7100DT but no backhoe attachment yet, perhaps I'll build one
eventually.

Okay, Bob. Will keep an eye on that group. Had two posts in it when
I looked.

Joe

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:04:22 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 3/21/2011 8:55 PM, justme wrote:
So, there is no bout a dought it at this point, it is the steering
valve? I will have to get a rebuild kit as I am retired and have
never seen ~ $500 bux for a new valve, in a long time.

This is going to be a job but so long as I have you guys as mentors, I
will go ahead.

Can I dig a ditch for you in return?

Joe

Post over in alt.fan.tractors also. Once in a while somebody
knowledgeable responds over there.



On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:19:54 -0600, "Pete
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote:

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.





Bad valve.
You should be able to rebuild it.

Yep. That looks like one of the newer style steering valves, the one I
rebuilt was older. You should be able to get a rebuild kit with new
seals, O-rings and other small parts to rebuild it at a dealer.

The two critical things to a successful rebuild are cleanliness and
taking a lot of pictures as you tear it down. You don't need to actually
understand how the valve works, just match replacement parts from the
kit to the old parts, replace and put it back together properly. The
rebuild kit is often for several different versions and will usually
contain some parts you won't need.

When I rebuilt my steering valve I used several cans of 3M brake cleaner
to clean everything well (wear nitrile gloves, latex last 2.5 seconds
with that cleaner), and I had a cup of clean hydraulic fluid to dip the
parts in when I was reassembling the valve.

With that being the newer style valve you can get a new one for around
$500 if need be.

Okay, Steve. Well, I will get to work.

Thanks

Joe

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:12:50 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

justme wrote:
Latest information on this IH 3400A backhoe. Today, the steering
wheel will turn with great effort. The tires will turn somewhat,
bearing in mind that I have the front tires jacked up off of the
ground.

It feels like that there are 'notches' that the s. wheel goes thru
while turning. I am afraid that I sound like many women when they try
to describe a noise to a mechanic. To salvage my prowess, I have
built and repaired many engines in my long time here on earth but I am
a neophyte on hydraulics. I need Pascal to tutor me.

Pete, you seem very confident that the steering valve needs to be
rebuilt/replaced. I am afraid replacement is out of the question due
to all the banks around here recognize me so, I can't 'withdraw'
money.

Pete, can you tell me any other tests to perform before I let all of
the springs and ball bearings out of the S. valve?

Anyone, everyone?

Thank you immensely.

Joe





http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20%20BACKHOE/

I think that the captions are self-explanatory, if not, please let me
know.





Bad valve.
You should be able to rebuild it.

Pete, what you said below confuses me. The s. wheel is hard to turn
and the tires have not reached near their limit. It seems that a
short time ago, I could rotate the s. wheel easily but I am not sure
if the engine was on or off. Regardless, the tires didn't turn.

Yesterday, with the engine running, I loosened on of the fittings on
the cylinder and fluid came out then, I rotated the s. wheel and more
came out.

I shot you an email.

Joe


On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:27:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


justme wrote:

So, there is no bout a dought it at this point, it is the steering
valve?

It's something like 99% probability. Bad seals in the steering cylinder
could let the steering valve freewheel, but you shouldn't ever have the
steering wheel hard to turn until the wheels move to their limit if it's
a load-reaction type of steering valve, and not even then if it's a non
load-reaction type.

I will have to get a rebuild kit as I am retired and have
never seen ~ $500 bux for a new valve, in a long time.

I would expect a rebuild kit to be under $50. I believe the one for my
Deere 500C was.


This is going to be a job but so long as I have you guys as mentors, I
will go ahead.

It's a bit tedious, but as long as you are organized it's not that bad.


Can I dig a ditch for you in return?

No ditches needed at the moment. I did dig a few back when I had the big
old 500C, but I sold that when I moved. I now have a nice little Kubota
B7100DT but no backhoe attachment yet, perhaps I'll build one
eventually.

justme wrote:

Pete, what you said below confuses me. The s. wheel is hard to turn
and the tires have not reached near their limit. It seems that a
short time ago, I could rotate the s. wheel easily but I am not sure
if the engine was on or off. Regardless, the tires didn't turn.

Think about how the steering system works:

You have a double acting steering cylinder connected to the wheels. You
have a steering valve that connects to the steering cylinder and also to
a supply of hydraulic pressure and a return to the tank. Just like a
typical 4 way control valve, the steering valve will provide pressurized
fluid to one side of the cylinder and allow fluid from the other side of
the cylinder to return to the tank.

The steering valve is designed so that for every movement of the
steering wheel, a small amount of fluid is allowed to travel to one side
of the steering cylinder and a small amount to return from the opposite
side. The direction you are turning the steering wheel determines which
side of the steering cylinder receives the fluid and which side the
fluid returns from.

There are two types of steering valves, load-reaction and non
load-reaction. The load reaction type is designed to provide a level of
feedback to the steering wheel to provide some resistance when you are
turning the wheels against an object or the like. The non load-reaction
provides no feedback, so you can turn the steering wheel with one finger
while the machines wheels are pushing it sideways off a rock.

If you have a load-reaction type of steering valve, the only time you
will feel resistance in the steering wheel is when the wheels are
pushing against an object, or are turned to their limit. With a non
load-reaction steering valve, you illl never feel resistance in the
steering wheel.

If the steering cylinder has an internal leak, it would allow the fluid
to pass between ports without moving the cylinder piston. This would
allow the steering wheel to freewheel with no resistance and without the
wheels moving, one of the conditions you said you had.

You also said you had the steering wheel difficult to turn with the
machine jacked up and with the wheels more-or-less straight ahead. Since
this is clearly a case with no side load on the wheels and the wheels
not at their turn limit, there should not be any resistance in the
steering wheel, even if it is a load-reaction type valve. This condition
could not be caused by internal leakage in the steering cylinder. If
it's a non load-reaction valve it shouldn't have resistance at all. I
believe most construction equipment will have non load-reaction steering
valves.

This is a bit over-simplified, but it gives you the overall idea. The
bottom line is that the symptoms you are seeing are most likely from a
failing steering valve and a rebuild is in order.


Yesterday, with the engine running, I loosened on of the fittings on
the cylinder and fluid came out then, I rotated the s. wheel and more
came out.

That test doesn't really tell much, that's more or less what should
happen, however without the cylinder connected (effectively) you didn't
have return fluid flow from the other side of the cylinder, nor any back
pressure, so the internals of the steering valve were not fully
activated.


I shot you an email.

It didn't get through. You have to remove the anti spam stuff to "34" to
get through.