On 03/04/2011 04:45 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Every single bin I packed for my move was individually numbered and the
contents listed on an inventory document. That inventory document was in
hardcopy in multiple locations as well as in soft copy on my laptop so
it couldn't get lost.

Are you familiar with the term "obsessive compulsive"? Those afflicted
sometimes use the euphemism "organized". G

But, when you REALLY needed to find something, it must have been
satisfying.
Yeah, our move sure was NOT like that! My wife said "Oh, I'm so glad
your friends stopped by and helped pack! It is so organized, now."
I said "Yeah, right, small things in small boxes, big things in big
boxes. But, it is all mixed up, electronics, tools, household stuff.
It will be a HUGE mess sorting it all out at the other end."

It was, it took me about 3 years to even get my shop remotely organized
again where I could find something in less than a couple days.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

On 03/04/2011 04:45 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Every single bin I packed for my move was individually numbered and the
contents listed on an inventory document. That inventory document was in
hardcopy in multiple locations as well as in soft copy on my laptop so
it couldn't get lost.

Are you familiar with the term "obsessive compulsive"? Those afflicted
sometimes use the euphemism "organized". G

But, when you REALLY needed to find something, it must have been
satisfying.
Yeah, our move sure was NOT like that! My wife said "Oh, I'm so glad
your friends stopped by and helped pack! It is so organized, now."
I said "Yeah, right, small things in small boxes, big things in big
boxes. But, it is all mixed up, electronics, tools, household stuff.
It will be a HUGE mess sorting it all out at the other end."

It doesn't matter if things are mixed up and thus packed more
efficiently if you have a detailed inventory of what is where. That is
how I did my move, it wasn't a kitchen box, bedroom box, etc., whatever
would fit in the space went in the box and was noted in the inventory.
When unpacking when I needed a particular item I just looked at the
inventory and went to the bin that was listed as holding the item.

On Mar 3, 8:01*am, Ignoramus22805 ignoramus22...@NOSPAM.
22805.invalid wrote:
On 2011-03-03, Wild_Bill wrote:

Despite what's "predicted" by overly optimistic (or possibly intentionally
misleading) media reports, I expect the real estate market to continue to
decline, but that's just my cynical viewpoint.

Wel, the future will tell. I am not looking to make a quick buck. But
I know that good things happen when one buys things at below
replacement costs.

There is too much global volatility, IMO, for anyone to be making any
economic predictions beyond, well, yesterday.

This is a great point. Many things that happen, are such that almost
no one expects them.

Home values are down by 30% in some areas, according to some of the info
I've seen, and the major banks are saying that forclosures are going to be
historically high for the remaining year (but may level off.. yeah, right,
they would know).

This would, more or less, follow unemployment rate.

I am not trying to be a global pundit and try to consider every
worldwide interdepencency of interest rates, central banks, and
conflicts in oil countries. I just try to go by price and see if a
price offers a margin of safety when buying.

I was gung ho on stocks for the last two years. After they had such a
great run and became much pricier, I no longer consider them to be as
safe as I thought about then when they were cheap. Meanwhile, real
estate continued to get cheaper.

I would also hate to lose my savings due to inflation, and I think
that homes/land offer a good degree of inflation protection, with much
less risk than kooky stuff like gold.

These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed

i

Especially the shed. ;)

Whatever size it is, it is already too small. ;)))

TMT

On Mar 3, 10:41*am, "Pete C." wrote:
Ignoramus13991 wrote:

On 2011-03-03, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus13991 wrote:

I will be moving to a new house in the next two months. So many
projects will be on hold, I will have to pack the stuff, disassemble
machines etc.

i

Two questions:

- Why so soon?

Due to housing crisis, good deals on homes are available, even under
replacement costs. and I do not expect this to last long.

- Does the new house have a big shop?

Yes, it does have a very nice shed, the size of two of my
garages. Plus a lot more land.

i

Since you are now planning to move anyway, and given the latest attacks
on gun owners in your current state, I'd give serious consideration to
making your move to a different state.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is probably the dumbest thing I have read on Usenet today.

TMT

On Mar 3, 11:59*am, rangerssuck wrote:
On Mar 3, 11:52*am, "Pete C." wrote:

I'm not sure how Iggy's neighbors would like a 20' container in his
driveway, though if it's only for a week or two he may be ok.

Iggy's had some pretty "unusual" things in his driveway. I imagine his
neighbors are pretty understanding. If not, then they c an think of
the container as a step towards being rid of their interesting
neighbor.

LOL...I wish Ig was my neighbor.

Life is short..everyone needs at least one interesting neighbor.

TMT

On Mar 3, 8:45*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:11:16 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

On 03/02/2011 08:30 PM, Ignoramus13991 wrote:
I will be moving to a new house in the next two months. So many
projects will be on hold, I will have to pack the stuff, disassemble
machines etc.

i

Ohhh, NOOoooooo! *Moving to my present house was a HUGE ordeal, and it
took YEARS to find all the missing stuff. *I found an expensive pump
pliers (sim. to channel-lock) in a box of pillows, years later!

It took well over 10 years to recover, but on the other hand, I REALLY
needed the space. *It was also wonderful to have a basement that stayed dry!

Jon
EXACTLY

I moved 18 years ago and it was only a three mile move. The number one
thing I learned is its too much work to move.

Karl

Eh, you whusses. I moved 1,700 miles and had no problems. My shop was up
and running in short order, stuff unpacked in an orderly fashion based
on my detailed inventory of what was packed where, and I was fully
online with two phone lines and cable modem a day before the semi
arrived. Piece of cake, you just have to be organized - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is a lot of truth to the "organized" part of your comments. The
more tools I had, the more organized I got. When the moves happen..and
we all move sometime..and some of us many times...just having all the
right tools in the right box makes a world of difference.

TMT

On Mar 3, 9:06*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Ignoramus13991 wrote:
*... *I will have to pack the stuff, disassemble
machines etc.

My sympathies. *Packing a shop is painful. *Little by little you lose
functionality until you're down to a handful of screwdrivers, pliers,
and hammer. *A regression through the process of building up the shop.
Reminds me of HAL's decommissioning in "2001 - A Space Odyssey".

Bob

Good analogy.

What works for me is to fill two pails full of tools and keep them
separate. Use them to tear down and then to restore everything when
you get to where you are going. Put lids on the pails and they are
good to go. Any other tool you need you can go buy for the move.

TMT

On Mar 4, 11:59*am, Ignoramus20691 ignoramus20...@NOSPAM.
20691.invalid wrote:
On 2011-03-03, Jon Elson wrote:

On 03/03/2011 08:01 AM, Ignoramus22805 wrote:

These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed
Yeah, yeah, in THIS group, you need say NO MORE!

Looks like the sellers BSed us on something very important, so after
all, it may not happen!

i

Ig...I have had similar things happen to me...hang in there.

Real estate is one of those things where the details count.

TMT

On Mar 4, 3:02*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Thu, 3 Mar
2011 02:13:32 -0500, Wild_Bill, wrote:

"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
.. .

Sure, moving is
more stressful than a regular routine, but I can
absolutely assure you that moving isn't even on the same
scale with marriage and death.

Stress is what it is.. I've seen interviews with people who's pets have
been killed, completely hysterical (needing sedation).. and wanting some
serious revenge, and sometimes getting it.

* Yup. *I've never seen anyone in that state over a
move.

It seems as though moving was a regular routine, Steve, well before the
40th move.

* Moving is like... changing a flat tire. *It's a pain
in the ass, but you just do one step after the other,
and in no time it's done. *Not routine, but not that
big a deal either... except when the tire goes flat
during a thunderstorm and you're off the road in a
mud puddle! *;-)

The funnest part of moving is when you start to unpack, and realize you
have 17 boxes on the living room floor all labeled "Misc." *;-)

Cheers!
Rich- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...or someone has removed the labels. ;)

TMT

On Mar 4, 3:11*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
On 03/03/2011 08:04 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:



I moved 18 years ago and it was only a three mile move. The number one
thing I learned is its too much work to move.

Yeah, I HEAR you! *That move was a real ordeal, I also moved somewhere
about that same distance. *Now, I have SO MUCH more big, heavy stuff, it
is just out of the question.

Jon

In my opinion, one can own too big a lathe or too big of a mill and I
have tried to hold the line on what has come in my shops because
sooner or later..we all move.

There are many wonderful old machine tools out there but there is a
good reason why big iron sells cheap.

TMT

Ignoramus20691 wrote:

On 2011-03-03, Jon Elson wrote:
On 03/03/2011 08:01 AM, Ignoramus22805 wrote:


These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed
Yeah, yeah, in THIS group, you need say NO MORE!


Looks like the sellers BSed us on something very important, so after
all, it may not happen!

i
Well, take your time, make sure EVERYTHING is right before you jump!

On the other hand, when you find 'THE PLACE", know that you have to move
RIGHT NOW to grab it. My wife and I looked for over a year once we decided
to seriously think about moving. I had a small house, although it had "4
bedrooms", they were all full of stuff. Back in 1988 or so, computers were
a lot bigger than today, and I couldn't have your USUAL IBM PC, oh no, I had
to have a VAX! I also had several other major projects that took up a lot
of room. We had a daughter, and my wife was thinking about more. (Little
did I know how MANY more she was thinking of!)

Anyway, we did some looking on our own, some with an agent, and a friend
of my wife's mom who was an agent showed us something on the order of 130
places. He was too literal, we gave him an area and a price limit, and he
stayed strictly in those limits, and we saw a BUNCH of horrible places,
some that we were literally afraid would fall down while we were in them!
We saw one place that had real promise, and went back to look again. We
opened the front door and our agent recoiled in horror. The place was
vacant, they had supposedly drained the water system, but didn't leave a
faucet open in the basement, water had leaked through the shutoff valve,
froze upstairs and then a thaw came, and the ceilings were on the living
room floor, and the hardwood flooring had warped and looked like the ribs
of a whale skeleton.

Well, finally, the other agent we had looked at a couple houses with called
up and said there's this house, it is farther than you wanted to be from
work, it is more money that you wanted to pay, but it is a real bargain and
won't last long. We signed a contract about 2 hours after seeing it! It
had 4 bedrooms upstairs, two in the basement, a HUGE area for my shop,
walk-out
basement, and otherwise was very attractive to my wife, too. So, after
getting a really good education on what was out there, we knew a good deal
when we saw it.

Jon

On Mar 6, 12:12*am, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus20691 wrote:
On 2011-03-03, Jon Elson wrote:
On 03/03/2011 08:01 AM, Ignoramus22805 wrote:

These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed
Yeah, yeah, in THIS group, you need say NO MORE!

Looks like the sellers BSed us on something very important, so after
all, it may not happen!

i

Well, take your time, make sure EVERYTHING is right before you jump!

On the other hand, when you find 'THE PLACE", know that you have to move
RIGHT NOW to grab it. *My wife and I looked for over a year once we decided
to seriously think about moving. *I had a small house, although it had "4
bedrooms", they were all full of stuff. *Back in 1988 or so, computers were
a lot bigger than today, and I couldn't have your USUAL IBM PC, oh no, I had
to have a VAX! *I also had several other major projects that took up a lot
of room. *We had a daughter, and my wife was thinking about more. *(Little
did I know how MANY more she was thinking of!)

Anyway, we did some looking on our own, some with an agent, and a friend
of my wife's mom who was an agent showed us something on the order of 130
places. *He was too literal, we gave him an area and a price limit, and he
stayed strictly in those limits, and we saw a BUNCH of horrible places,
some that we were literally afraid would fall down while we were in them!
We saw one place that had real promise, and went back to look again. *We
opened the front door and our agent recoiled in horror. *The place was
vacant, they had supposedly drained the water system, but didn't leave a
faucet open in the basement, water had leaked through the shutoff valve,
froze upstairs and then a thaw came, and the ceilings were on the living
room floor, and the hardwood flooring had warped and looked like the ribs
of a whale skeleton.

Well, finally, the other agent we had looked at a couple houses with called
up and said there's this house, it is farther than you wanted to be from
work, it is more money that you wanted to pay, but it is a real bargain and
won't last long. *We signed a contract about 2 hours after seeing it! *It
had 4 bedrooms upstairs, two in the basement, a HUGE area for my shop,
walk-out
basement, and otherwise was very attractive to my wife, too. *So, after
getting a really good education on what was out there, we knew a good deal
when we saw it.

Jon

Similar story...looked for several years and when the right place
popped up...viewed it, bid on it and bought it within 24 hours.

Haven't seen a better one since.

TMT

On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 00:12:09 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ignoramus20691 wrote:

On 2011-03-03, Jon Elson wrote:
On 03/03/2011 08:01 AM, Ignoramus22805 wrote:


These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed
Yeah, yeah, in THIS group, you need say NO MORE!


Looks like the sellers BSed us on something very important, so after
all, it may not happen!

i
Well, take your time, make sure EVERYTHING is right before you jump!

On the other hand, when you find 'THE PLACE", know that you have to move
RIGHT NOW to grab it. My wife and I looked for over a year once we decided
to seriously think about moving. I had a small house, although it had "4
bedrooms", they were all full of stuff. Back in 1988 or so, computers were
a lot bigger than today, and I couldn't have your USUAL IBM PC, oh no, I had
to have a VAX! I also had several other major projects that took up a lot
of room. We had a daughter, and my wife was thinking about more. (Little
did I know how MANY more she was thinking of!)

Anyway, we did some looking on our own, some with an agent, and a friend
of my wife's mom who was an agent showed us something on the order of 130
places. He was too literal, we gave him an area and a price limit, and he
stayed strictly in those limits, and we saw a BUNCH of horrible places,
some that we were literally afraid would fall down while we were in them!
We saw one place that had real promise, and went back to look again. We
opened the front door and our agent recoiled in horror. The place was
vacant, they had supposedly drained the water system, but didn't leave a
faucet open in the basement, water had leaked through the shutoff valve,
froze upstairs and then a thaw came, and the ceilings were on the living
room floor, and the hardwood flooring had warped and looked like the ribs
of a whale skeleton.

Well, finally, the other agent we had looked at a couple houses with called
up and said there's this house, it is farther than you wanted to be from
work, it is more money that you wanted to pay, but it is a real bargain and
won't last long. We signed a contract about 2 hours after seeing it! It
had 4 bedrooms upstairs, two in the basement, a HUGE area for my shop,
walk-out
basement, and otherwise was very attractive to my wife, too. So, after
getting a really good education on what was out there, we knew a good deal
when we saw it.

Jon
We had been looking for our first house for several months when my
wife phoned me while I was out of town, to tell me that she had found
a house that she thought I would like and how much she thought I would
offer. I told her to make a conditional offer and I would attempt to
come home next day to get home next day to confirm it, which I did.
When I asked the agent next day, he hadn't presented the offer and
thought I should offer more, but I insisted that he proceed and ten
minutes latter I owned the house.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On 03/03/2011 08:01 AM, Ignoramus22805 wrote:


These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed
Yeah, yeah, in THIS group, you need say NO MORE!


Looks like the sellers BSed us on something very important, so after
all, it may not happen!

i


Might wanna wait a bit longer:

Robert Shiller the Yale economist and co-founder of the S&P/Case-Shiller
home price indexes, dropped this bomb: "There's a substantial risk of home
prices falling another 15%, 20% or 25%," he said.
That's a stunning enough pronouncement to make house hunters consider
putting purchases on hold. And that may not be a dumb move: If prices are
near a double dip -- meaning they fell after the bust, rose a bit during
recovery and are now heading back down -- there may be better deals ahead.

"There will be differences by market, but generally, you may get a big
discount by waiting a year [to buy]," said Dean Baker, co-director of the
Center for Economic and Policy Research, who thinks the price drop will be
closer to 10% or 15%.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/03/real...ng_buy_or_not/

Best Regards

Tom.

fOn 2011-03-07, azotic wrote:


On 03/03/2011 08:01 AM, Ignoramus22805 wrote:


These were some of the reasons that our family thought about.

Plus the shed
Yeah, yeah, in THIS group, you need say NO MORE!


Looks like the sellers BSed us on something very important, so after
all, it may not happen!

i


Might wanna wait a bit longer:

Robert Shiller the Yale economist and co-founder of the S&P/Case-Shiller
home price indexes, dropped this bomb: "There's a substantial risk of home
prices falling another 15%, 20% or 25%," he said.
That's a stunning enough pronouncement to make house hunters consider
putting purchases on hold. And that may not be a dumb move: If prices are
near a double dip -- meaning they fell after the bust, rose a bit during
recovery and are now heading back down -- there may be better deals ahead.

"There will be differences by market, but generally, you may get a big
discount by waiting a year [to buy]," said Dean Baker, co-director of the
Center for Economic and Policy Research, who thinks the price drop will be
closer to 10% or 15%.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/03/real...ng_buy_or_not/

Tom, I saw the article too. And of the people mentioned there, I
respect Bob Schiller, he is the guy who is doing very substantial
homework, instead of just bull****ting and prognosticating.

I happen to have made decent money on the Bush Depression, not because
of some crystal ball, but simply because I did not buy stocks when
they were expensive, and bought them when they were cheap. When I
bought them, I was not trying to forecast any kind of market bottom.

I have seen, then, a lot of people who were not buying, but instead
they were waiting for the bottom. They would say something like
"stocks are expected to continue to fall". Well, some are still
waiting. For me, after I bought stocks, as usual, they kept going down
some, but eventually recovered.

Only a week or so ago, I started selling stocks in our 401ks, where I
thought that they no longer offer a margin of safety. Again, I have no
clue what stocks will do next month, I just go by price.

I believe housing to be similar, in nature. Homes are competitively
priced. Many homes are selling below replacement value of what it
costs to build them. No one knows when it will bottom out, but I think
that they represent a good value. People who say things like "housing
is expected to fall", often do not fully appreciate that prices do
embed existing sentiment.

Also, the graph presented in the CNN article, IIRC, is not inflation
adjusted. Inflation adjusted, things look much more attractive, price
wise.

i