I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:


I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?
You need a very close fit between the parts, clean carefully and clamp
to hold in place. 1/4" thickness is out of the narrow range of my
knowledge. I got some filler wire from the welding store that worked
well, I'll look up what it is. I also got some MIG wire, and was not
able to make that work right at all. lanthanated electrodes should be
good. You'll need a pretty thick electrode and a lot of current. You
will need to play the arc over the parts for a minute or so to preheat
before welding, and once preheated, begin welding and keep the arc
moving quickly to prevent the dreaded "blop" on the floor.

You will have much better results with a gas lens, it can cut your Argon
consumption by half, and that stuff is getting EXPENSIVE!

Jon

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On Aug 30, 4:53*pm, Ignoramus24925 ignoramus24...@NOSPAM.
24925.invalid wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

Ask over in Sci.engr.joining,welding. Pay attention to what Ernie
says. Do not join without adding filler.

From a post on s.e.j.w by Ernie on butt welding.

You have to make sure your edges are clean and oxide free for them to
flow.
Also, the specific alloy makes a big difference.
6061 and 6063 should never be flow welded together.
You need a filler rod, 4043 or 5356.

5052 can be flow welded together, as can 3003, and 1100.
5086 should have a filler rod, either 5356 or 5556.

As long as the edges are touching you should get a good flow on a seam
with no keyholing.

From another of Ernies posts.

1 amp per 0.001" of thickness.
So 1/16" wall tubing is about 0.063" = 63 amps.
Got it?
Set your amperage dial to a hair over this, say 65 amps.
Keep your arc short and your tungsten clean.
Be agressive with the filler rod.
If the aluminum appears to be melting away into a hole, get some
filler in there.

A good test to see if your amperage is set correctly on the machine is
to
disable the foot pedal's ability to control the amperage.
Just use it as a contactor control.

This will allow you to really see how much amperage to need to weld
your pieces.

For thinwall aluminum go for a 1/16" Lanthanated, Ceriated or
Zirconiated
Tungsten.

Stay away from Pures or Thoriated.
Thoriated tungstens tend to shed bits of tungsten into the weld on AC,
and Pures
can't take any heat.



Dan

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:53:04 -0500, Ignoramus24925
wrote:

I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

I'd say somewhere between 150 and 200 amps, but watching the puddle
will quickly tell you when you have it right.

Thoroughly scour the work with a stainless brush thoroughly before
welding. If it was done 15 minutes ago, do it again.

I would prefer a zirconiated tungsten to lanthanated, but La will
probably work OK too. I would avoid pure tungsten and definitely
avoid thoriated. I haven't tried ceriated.

For filler, I'd probably cut a strip of 6061 sheetmetal, or use 4043
or 5356. On thin material I'd use 4043 because it melts more readily,
but on your job 5356 would not be a problem and it would probably
provide a better color match with 6061.

Since it's a knife handle, I would anodize it when it's finished to
avoid the problem of black hands from aluminum oxide in the kitchen.
5356 will give a better color match when anodizing.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:28:29 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:53:04 -0500, Ignoramus24925
wrote:

I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

I'd say somewhere between 150 and 200 amps, but watching the puddle
will quickly tell you when you have it right.

Thoroughly scour the work with a stainless brush thoroughly before
welding. If it was done 15 minutes ago, do it again.

I would prefer a zirconiated tungsten to lanthanated, but La will
probably work OK too. I would avoid pure tungsten and definitely
avoid thoriated. I haven't tried ceriated.

For filler, I'd probably cut a strip of 6061 sheetmetal, or use 4043
or 5356. On thin material I'd use 4043 because it melts more readily,
but on your job 5356 would not be a problem and it would probably
provide a better color match with 6061.

Since it's a knife handle, I would anodize it when it's finished to
avoid the problem of black hands from aluminum oxide in the kitchen.
5356 will give a better color match when anodizing.

Could you anodize that o.k. with the steel blade in there? I assume
you'd need to guarantee the solution didn't get trapped in there.

Pete Keillor

On 2010-08-31, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:53:04 -0500, Ignoramus24925
wrote:

I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

I'd say somewhere between 150 and 200 amps, but watching the puddle
will quickly tell you when you have it right.

Thoroughly scour the work with a stainless brush thoroughly before
welding. If it was done 15 minutes ago, do it again.

I would prefer a zirconiated tungsten to lanthanated, but La will
probably work OK too. I would avoid pure tungsten and definitely
avoid thoriated. I haven't tried ceriated.

For filler, I'd probably cut a strip of 6061 sheetmetal, or use 4043
or 5356. On thin material I'd use 4043 because it melts more readily,
but on your job 5356 would not be a problem and it would probably
provide a better color match with 6061.

Since it's a knife handle, I would anodize it when it's finished to
avoid the problem of black hands from aluminum oxide in the kitchen.
5356 will give a better color match when anodizing.

Don, and others, thanks. I was too tired yesterday to do anything, but
maybe today I will do it. I will mill a V-groove along the weld line,
for better weld appearance and deeper penetration.

i

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:36:10 GMT, (dan) wrote:

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

6061 CANNOT be welded without adding filler rod. I have the magizine
article at home. That's why there is no such thing as 6061 filler
rod.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On 8/30/2010 6:28 PM, Don Foreman wrote:

Since it's a knife handle, I would anodize it when it's finished to
avoid the problem of black hands from aluminum oxide in the kitchen.
5356 will give a better color match when anodizing.

If he's trapping the blade during the welding process, then it can't be
anodized...


Jon

On Aug 30, 10:28*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:

I'd say somewhere between 150 and 200 amps, but watching the puddle
will quickly tell you when you have it right. *

Ernie recommends one amp per .001 inch of thickness and then some
variation depending on configuration. So if you think of this as kind
of a butt weld that has been oriented strangely.........well that
would be about 250 amps.


Dan

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:13:19 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 30, 10:28*pm, Don Foreman
wrote:

I'd say somewhere between 150 and 200 amps, but watching the puddle
will quickly tell you when you have it right. *

Ernie recommends one amp per .001 inch of thickness and then some
variation depending on configuration. So if you think of this as kind
of a butt weld that has been oriented strangely.........well that
would be about 250 amps.

That's a good rule of thumb, but it really addresses butt welds or
filet welds where nearly complete penetration is sought. That's far
more than would be necessary here. I've done welds similar to this,
didn't need anywhere near 250 amps. A puddle maybe 3/16" dia is way
plenty here and it's a lot easier to control.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:07:03 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:28:29 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:53:04 -0500, Ignoramus24925
wrote:

I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

I'd say somewhere between 150 and 200 amps, but watching the puddle
will quickly tell you when you have it right.

Thoroughly scour the work with a stainless brush thoroughly before
welding. If it was done 15 minutes ago, do it again.

I would prefer a zirconiated tungsten to lanthanated, but La will
probably work OK too. I would avoid pure tungsten and definitely
avoid thoriated. I haven't tried ceriated.

For filler, I'd probably cut a strip of 6061 sheetmetal, or use 4043
or 5356. On thin material I'd use 4043 because it melts more readily,
but on your job 5356 would not be a problem and it would probably
provide a better color match with 6061.

Since it's a knife handle, I would anodize it when it's finished to
avoid the problem of black hands from aluminum oxide in the kitchen.
5356 will give a better color match when anodizing.

Could you anodize that o.k. with the steel blade in there? I assume
you'd need to guarantee the solution didn't get trapped in there.

Pete Keillor

Yes, you need to keep the solution out of the cavity and also need to
protect the external steel from the solution -- wax, tape, asphaltum,
nail polish, or what have you.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:23 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:36:10 GMT, (dan) wrote:

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

6061 CANNOT be welded without adding filler rod. I have the magizine
article at home. That's why there is no such thing as 6061 filler
rod.

Thank You,
Randy

Generally true because of its susceptability to cracking. The filler
mitigates that to some extent. However, in this case use of
considerably less heat than usual would suffice, since all the weld
has to do is keep the sides together and hide the joint. It's more
cosmetic than structural. Less heat -- less susceptability to
cracking.

I've done autogenous cosmetic welds with TIG in 6061 with no problems.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

What's that Lassie? You say that Randy fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:23 -0500:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:36:10 GMT, (dan) wrote:

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php
that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

6061 CANNOT be welded without adding filler rod. I have the magizine
article at home. That's why there is no such thing as 6061 filler
rod.
Thank You,
Randy

Yah. I know. That's why I said above to use 4043 or 5356.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:23 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:36:10 GMT, (dan) wrote:

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

6061 CANNOT be welded without adding filler rod. I have the magizine
article at home. That's why there is no such thing as 6061 filler
rod.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


6061 CAN be welded without filler, but it does not make a real good
job, and using strips of 6061 sheet DOES work in a pinch - when you
want the weld to totally dissappear when ground down and polished.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:46:04 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:23 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:36:10 GMT, (dan) wrote:

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

6061 CANNOT be welded without adding filler rod. I have the magizine
article at home. That's why there is no such thing as 6061 filler
rod.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


6061 CAN be welded without filler, but it does not make a real good
job, and using strips of 6061 sheet DOES work in a pinch - when you
want the weld to totally dissappear when ground down and polished.

Just so, which I'd think would be the objective with an ally handle
encasing a blade.

On 2010-09-01, Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:46:04 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:23 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:36:10 GMT, (dan) wrote:

What's that Lassie? You say that tnik fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:28 -0400:

On 8/30/2010 4:53 PM, Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:

[==============]
[==============]

(they form a knife handle that holds the tang of a knife, sandwiched
between them).

I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?

i

If the material is butted together, you should just be able to fuse them
together. A bit of polishing when done and probably wont even be able to
tell they were welded.. If you need filler, then I would suggest the
same type of material.

You can't get 6061 filler rods. Use 4043 or 5356.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php

that says to use 190-220 amps

Shouldn't need that much, just to hold 'em together.

6061 CANNOT be welded without adding filler rod. I have the magizine
article at home. That's why there is no such thing as 6061 filler
rod.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


6061 CAN be welded without filler, but it does not make a real good
job, and using strips of 6061 sheet DOES work in a pinch - when you
want the weld to totally dissappear when ground down and polished.

Just so, which I'd think would be the objective with an ally handle
encasing a blade.

This not some kind of an art piece. This is a very big kitchen knife
with a very thick handle. My FIL uses is to, like, split frozen meat
and such etc. So I want a handle that would survive pretty extreme
abuse and would be relatively pleasant to hold.

This is rapidly becomes a big dollar project due to the time spent,
materials wasted etc, broken drill bits but I treat this as a if it
was a fee for getting education.

i

On 2010-09-01, Ignoramus4117 wrote:
This not some kind of an art piece. This is a very big kitchen knife
with a very thick handle. My FIL uses is to, like, split frozen meat
and such etc.

He also likes to pound its back with a hammer.

So I want a handle that would survive pretty extreme
abuse and would be relatively pleasant to hold.

This is rapidly becomes a big dollar project due to the time spent,
materials wasted etc, broken drill bits but I treat this as a if it
was a fee for getting education.

i

Ignoramus4117 fired this volley in
:


He also likes to pound its back with a hammer.

Make a froe club (beetle) for him. It's less dangerous, more suited to the
task, and easier to use. It also won't damage the knife.

LLoyd

Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus24925 wrote:
I have two long aluminum bars 1/4 by 1 1/4, connected together in a
parallel configuration:


I need to weld them together with TIG and my question is how. Again,
6061, they are 1/4" thick. What filler is best to use and what
amperage. Should I use lanthanated?
You need a very close fit between the parts, clean carefully and clamp
to hold in place. 1/4" thickness is out of the narrow range of my
knowledge. I got some filler wire from the welding store that worked
well, I'll look up what it is. I also got some MIG wire, and was not
able to make that work right at all.
OK, the MIG wire that I couldn't get to work was 5356. The filler rod
from the welding store was ER4043, and worked
much better.

My welding book recommends Zirconated electrodes, but I think newer
practice is to use Lantanated for aluminum, and I think
that is what I used when I did a bunch of frames out of rectangular
tube. For 1/4" aluminum, the book recommends
a 5/32" electrode ground to a very wide point, 200-300 Amps, 1/8" filler
wire, 10 IPM weld speed, a 1/2" cup and
25 cu.Ft./hour gas flow. You can reduce gas consumption with a gas lens.

I have a Lincoln Square Wave TIG 300, but I've never done 1/4" thick
parts. That rectangular tube was about 1/8" wall
thickness. I preheated the work by playing the arc over an area for
about 30 seconds and watched closely for the
very subtle signs that the metal was heating up. One trick was to melt
a little bead of filler metal on the surface of
the workpiece, and when it begins to sag from heat conducted through the
workpiece, you are nearly ready.
Cleaning the work and filler wire with acetone before starting seemed to
help, as well as wire brushing the weld
area.

Jon