Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III

On 8/29/2010 6:13 AM, Phred wrote:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...


Post the drawings!

Jon

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III


What is the Dropbox address for RCM... I will post prints today...

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:10:03 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III


What is the Dropbox address for RCM... I will post prints today...

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox.html

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
wrote:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III


Hey Fred,

Yeah, please do post it to the drop-box so we can all have a peek.

Without even a clue as to size and materials, it just might make a
good "club project" for us. One of our MDMC members is active with
the CAF at Willow Run, so I bet he's interested. (I always want to
call it the Confederate Air Force, but I know that's not it!!)

Or send me a copy "direct"

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
Member Metro Detroit Metalworking Club.

ps....nice to "hear" from, you here once in a while. Been some time
though.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:18:10 -0400, Brian Lawson
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
wrote:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III


Hey Fred,

Yeah, please do post it to the drop-box so we can all have a peek.

Without even a clue as to size and materials, it just might make a
good "club project" for us. One of our MDMC members is active with
the CAF at Willow Run, so I bet he's interested. (I always want to
call it the Confederate Air Force, but I know that's not it!!)

Or send me a copy "direct"

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
Member Metro Detroit Metalworking Club.

ps....nice to "hear" from, you here once in a while. Been some time
though.

Before it became the "Commemorative Air Force" it was the Confederate
Air Force. I remember one of Dad's fellow ag pilots keeping a B-25 in
Angleton, Texas for a while (late '60's). As I recall, originally all
members were colonels.

Pete Keillor

Pete Keillor wrote:

Before it became the "Commemorative Air Force" it was the Confederate
Air Force. I remember one of Dad's fellow ag pilots keeping a B-25 in
Angleton, Texas for a while (late '60's). As I recall, originally all
members were colonels.


PC run amok.

Wes

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:25:05 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Pete Keillor wrote:

Before it became the "Commemorative Air Force" it was the Confederate
Air Force. I remember one of Dad's fellow ag pilots keeping a B-25 in
Angleton, Texas for a while (late '60's). As I recall, originally all
members were colonels.


PC run amok.

Wes

Agreed.

I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft. Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/29/2010 12:16 PM, John R. Carroll wrote:
Phred wrote:
Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III

I might be interested.
Bunch of guys I know, including a customer who is also a good friend, run
the museum in Torrance.
They have a restored B-17 there IIRC.

Colonels are cool. We all know a one star has issues :-)

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/29/2010 4:05 PM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:18:10 -0400, Brian Lawson
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400,
wrote:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III


Hey Fred,

Yeah, please do post it to the drop-box so we can all have a peek.

Without even a clue as to size and materials, it just might make a
good "club project" for us. One of our MDMC members is active with
the CAF at Willow Run, so I bet he's interested. (I always want to
call it the Confederate Air Force, but I know that's not it!!)

Or send me a copy "direct"

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
Member Metro Detroit Metalworking Club.

ps....nice to "hear" from, you here once in a while. Been some time
though.

Before it became the "Commemorative Air Force" it was the Confederate
Air Force. I remember one of Dad's fellow ag pilots keeping a B-25 in
Angleton, Texas for a while (late '60's). As I recall, originally all
members were colonels.

Pete Keillor

What liability issues are associated with us folk making parts for big
things that fly?

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------

On 2010-08-29, Karl Townsend wrote:



On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:10:03 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is

[ ... ]

What is the Dropbox address for RCM... I will post prints today...

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox.html

Note that this is the address for downloading from the dropbox.
Submissions are via e-mail, and you should go in to the top-level site

http://www.metalworking.com

and click on "using the dropbox" for instructions on how to submit, file
name restrictions, and what kind of files are forbidden (e.g. ".DOC"
files, because of macro virus problems).

Enjoy,
DoN.

P.S. Fred -- not seen you post much recently. Do you still follow
the newsgroup regularly?

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 8/29/2010 9:00 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft.
Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got
stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Actually, that was a B-29, parked on the South side of the South
terminal wing in the late 1970s. I poked around it many times when I was
working SCCA races at GSW. It's now at the entrance to Lockheed, in
West ft worth, and the other side of the runway from Carswell JRB

There was also a B25 (B24?) on the North side of the North terminal wing
of GSW. It was complete. i don't know where it ended up.

--
I can see November from my front porch

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:39:22 -0500, RBnDFW
wrote:

On 8/29/2010 9:00 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft.
Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got
stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Actually, that was a B-29, parked on the South side of the South
terminal wing in the late 1970s. I poked around it many times when I was
working SCCA races at GSW. It's now at the entrance to Lockheed, in
West ft worth, and the other side of the runway from Carswell JRB

There was also a B25 (B24?) on the North side of the North terminal wing
of GSW. It was complete. i don't know where it ended up.


I have a strange request for anyone who frequents the Dallas airport.
Some time around 1976 they had just added onto the airport and dug up
an aquatic dinosaur and put it on display in one of the side
corridors. I would greatly appreciate a picture of it. IIRC it is the
size of a VW.

I use to have full access to the CAF in Harlingen, I see they moved it
to Midland. Odessa/Midland that's in the middle of nowhere. Last time
I was at the CAF was when a guy from Australia gave them a PBY and we
pounded Fosters together. Lost a couple of acquaintances when they
piled it up in the Laguna Madre. Also flew in their B-17,
unforgettable ride. Was in the tail gunners position while doing touch
and goes, stood between the pilots in flight and watched the green
country side cruse underneath from the very front.

SW

On 8/30/2010 1:36 PM, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:39:22 -0500,
wrote:

On 8/29/2010 9:00 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft.
Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got
stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Actually, that was a B-29, parked on the South side of the South
terminal wing in the late 1970s. I poked around it many times when I was
working SCCA races at GSW. It's now at the entrance to Lockheed, in
West ft worth, and the other side of the runway from Carswell JRB

There was also a B25 (B24?) on the North side of the North terminal wing
of GSW. It was complete. i don't know where it ended up.


I have a strange request for anyone who frequents the Dallas airport.
Some time around 1976 they had just added onto the airport and dug up
an aquatic dinosaur and put it on display in one of the side
corridors. I would greatly appreciate a picture of it. IIRC it is the
size of a VW.

Surprised it's not online, but I sure could not find it.
Next time I'm out there I'll try to figue out where it is and snap a pic
or two.



--
I can see November from my front porch

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:03:03 -0500, RBnDFW
wrote:

On 8/30/2010 1:36 PM, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:39:22 -0500,
wrote:

On 8/29/2010 9:00 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft.
Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got
stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Actually, that was a B-29, parked on the South side of the South
terminal wing in the late 1970s. I poked around it many times when I was
working SCCA races at GSW. It's now at the entrance to Lockheed, in
West ft worth, and the other side of the runway from Carswell JRB

There was also a B25 (B24?) on the North side of the North terminal wing
of GSW. It was complete. i don't know where it ended up.


I have a strange request for anyone who frequents the Dallas airport.
Some time around 1976 they had just added onto the airport and dug up
an aquatic dinosaur and put it on display in one of the side
corridors. I would greatly appreciate a picture of it. IIRC it is the
size of a VW.

Surprised it's not online, but I sure could not find it.
Next time I'm out there I'll try to figue out where it is and snap a pic
or two.


That would be great, I remember it as very unique. I thought of
mentioning that I tried years ago to find it online after I hit send.
One would think it would be online, but then again it was found way
before common PC's.

That was the trip that I ran into a friend in O'Hare.

SW

On 8/30/2010 6:20 PM, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:03:03 -0500,
wrote:

On 8/30/2010 1:36 PM, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:39:22 -0500,
wrote:

On 8/29/2010 9:00 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft.
Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got
stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Actually, that was a B-29, parked on the South side of the South
terminal wing in the late 1970s. I poked around it many times when I was
working SCCA races at GSW. It's now at the entrance to Lockheed, in
West ft worth, and the other side of the runway from Carswell JRB

There was also a B25 (B24?) on the North side of the North terminal wing
of GSW. It was complete. i don't know where it ended up.


I have a strange request for anyone who frequents the Dallas airport.
Some time around 1976 they had just added onto the airport and dug up
an aquatic dinosaur and put it on display in one of the side
corridors. I would greatly appreciate a picture of it. IIRC it is the
size of a VW.

Surprised it's not online, but I sure could not find it.
Next time I'm out there I'll try to figue out where it is and snap a pic
or two.


That would be great, I remember it as very unique. I thought of
mentioning that I tried years ago to find it online after I hit send.
One would think it would be online, but then again it was found way
before common PC's.

That was the trip that I ran into a friend in O'Hare.

This the one? http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth28009/

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:38:39 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 8/30/2010 6:20 PM, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:03:03 -0500,
wrote:

On 8/30/2010 1:36 PM, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:39:22 -0500,
wrote:

On 8/29/2010 9:00 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I want to say they moved the B-17 from the entrance of the old
"Greater Southwest International Airport" - DFW took over in a political
squabble. They (who?) moved it to the entrance of the Air Base in Ft.
Worth.

Sadly, it was put there in flying order and then over the years got
stripped
of parts by persons unknown. They trucked it by semi. Several of them.

Actually, that was a B-29, parked on the South side of the South
terminal wing in the late 1970s. I poked around it many times when I was
working SCCA races at GSW. It's now at the entrance to Lockheed, in
West ft worth, and the other side of the runway from Carswell JRB

There was also a B25 (B24?) on the North side of the North terminal wing
of GSW. It was complete. i don't know where it ended up.


I have a strange request for anyone who frequents the Dallas airport.
Some time around 1976 they had just added onto the airport and dug up
an aquatic dinosaur and put it on display in one of the side
corridors. I would greatly appreciate a picture of it. IIRC it is the
size of a VW.

Surprised it's not online, but I sure could not find it.
Next time I'm out there I'll try to figue out where it is and snap a pic
or two.


That would be great, I remember it as very unique. I thought of
mentioning that I tried years ago to find it online after I hit send.
One would think it would be online, but then again it was found way
before common PC's.

That was the trip that I ran into a friend in O'Hare.

This the one? http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth28009/


Must be, very good, how'd ya do that? I remember it as smaller, but
that must be it cause it had four fins like that. Guess they got sick
of moving it around, it was in the airport before. Thanks, At least
now if I get back there I won't be wandering around bugging everyone
who works there and drawing even more attention to myself.

It was long ago, but maybe they made a rendition of it cause I don't
recall any rock left, just skeleton. Hmmm, this seems to be a print of
a photo, maybe it is still at the airport.

Thanks

Check this out, ya'll like Vietnam stuff. I haven't listened to any,
but looks really cool. Got me thinking, he probably knew this guys
dad.

SW

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:13:42 -0400, Phred
scribed:

Hey all:

Just got the orginal 74 year old prints' for a drum and cable device
used on the B-17 bomber. The restoration guys want to see if anyone is
interested in making this part... I thought I'd ask here 1st, instead
of going to a big shop. I can upload the prints to the drop box if
anyone is interested... No Money, but you get a piece of history on
your calling card, plus I might throw in a few precision tools...

I dinna know the name of the pretty lady yet...

Best,

Fred V. Fowler III


Hey all:

I finally got around to posting the print file to the Dropbox... We
have been "balls' to the wall's" getting ready for the IMTS 2010 show!

Maybe I'll see some of you there!

Best,

Fred III

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf


Thanks Bob... Not too familiar with how the "box" works... Plus I've
been getting the IMTS show exhibit together for the last week. Just
shipped today... Thank the God's!

I reckon this part would be for the steering column? Were not the
B-17's still controlled with wire steering? Ailerons? I dinna know
that much, but I do have a B-17 flight manual somewhere... I'll try to
look it up.

Thanks again,

Fred V. Fowler III

"Phred" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf


Thanks Bob... Not too familiar with how the "box" works... Plus I've
been getting the IMTS show exhibit together for the last week. Just
shipped today... Thank the God's!

I reckon this part would be for the steering column? Were not the
B-17's still controlled with wire steering? Ailerons? I dinna know
that much, but I do have a B-17 flight manual somewhere... I'll try to
look it up.

Thanks again,

Fred V. Fowler III

My Field Service manual references Rudder and Elevator Tabs controlled
through drums at the Engine Control Stand

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:03:32 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf


Thanks Bob... Not too familiar with how the "box" works... Plus I've
been getting the IMTS show exhibit together for the last week. Just
shipped today... Thank the God's!

I reckon this part would be for the steering column? Were not the
B-17's still controlled with wire steering? Ailerons? I dinna know
that much, but I do have a B-17 flight manual somewhere... I'll try to
look it up.

Thanks again,

Fred V. Fowler III


I certainly don't have the time and pulling out of that groove is over
my capabilities. But, even looking at it sideways, I wouldn't put in
the two circular grooves on the sides to reduce weight. The most of
the stress if it binds will be on the outsides of the cable rapped
around. What's a cubic inch of aluminum for a proven war bird that
will never carry again what it was designed for.

Like the other post, probably trim, the main yoke would be 5-6" dia.
not 2.5"

SW

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:22:36 -0500, Sunworshipper
scribed:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:03:32 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf


Thanks Bob... Not too familiar with how the "box" works... Plus I've
been getting the IMTS show exhibit together for the last week. Just
shipped today... Thank the God's!

I reckon this part would be for the steering column? Were not the
B-17's still controlled with wire steering? Ailerons? I dinna know
that much, but I do have a B-17 flight manual somewhere... I'll try to
look it up.

Thanks again,

Fred V. Fowler III


I certainly don't have the time and pulling out of that groove is over
my capabilities. But, even looking at it sideways, I wouldn't put in
the two circular grooves on the sides to reduce weight. The most of
the stress if it binds will be on the outsides of the cable rapped
around. What's a cubic inch of aluminum for a proven war bird that
will never carry again what it was designed for.

Like the other post, probably trim, the main yoke would be 5-6" dia.
not 2.5"

SW

Trim control sounds about right... Much less turn than rudder, and the
dimensions sound about right for tight control over a smaller drum
size and force, more precise control anyway... Or is the bigger the
drum, the more control you have? I was never a physics or calc guy...
I know the bigger a micrometer head, the more precise it is, probably
just cause there are just bigger graduations, more widely spaced,
thus, easier to read and interpret and "split the lines"...

My 0.02 cents...

Fred III

I'll ask the restoration people.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 22:46:27 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:22:36 -0500, Sunworshipper
scribed:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:03:32 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf


Thanks Bob... Not too familiar with how the "box" works... Plus I've
been getting the IMTS show exhibit together for the last week. Just
shipped today... Thank the God's!

I reckon this part would be for the steering column? Were not the
B-17's still controlled with wire steering? Ailerons? I dinna know
that much, but I do have a B-17 flight manual somewhere... I'll try to
look it up.

Thanks again,

Fred V. Fowler III


I certainly don't have the time and pulling out of that groove is over
my capabilities. But, even looking at it sideways, I wouldn't put in
the two circular grooves on the sides to reduce weight. The most of
the stress if it binds will be on the outsides of the cable rapped
around. What's a cubic inch of aluminum for a proven war bird that
will never carry again what it was designed for.

Like the other post, probably trim, the main yoke would be 5-6" dia.
not 2.5"

SW

Trim control sounds about right... Much less turn than rudder, and the
dimensions sound about right for tight control over a smaller drum
size and force, more precise control anyway... Or is the bigger the
drum, the more control you have? I was never a physics or calc guy...
I know the bigger a micrometer head, the more precise it is, probably
just cause there are just bigger graduations, more widely spaced,
thus, easier to read and interpret and "split the lines"...

My 0.02 cents...

Fred III

I'll ask the restoration people.



ELEVATOR TRIM TAB CONTROL – Elevator trimming is accomplished by
means of a tab in each elevator. Each tab is operated by a rod at the
cable drum
assembly mounted in the elevator. A knurled thumb nut on the left side
of the
control stand provides a friction brake to prevent creeping of the tab
control.
3/32-inch 7 X 7 cables, looped around the drum in the engine control
stand
follow substantially the same course as the copilot's elevator cables.
The cables
extend along the aft side of the elevator torque tube to the drums
which operate
the actuating struts at the tabs. The circuit is completed by means of
a “messenger”
cable which is routed through the center of the torque tube to a
second drum at
each actuating strut.

Sounds like there are at least two on the plane. Bet if you look in
the tail you'll find one to go by.


SW

On Sep 1, 5:40*pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
...

ELEVATOR TRIM TAB CONTROL – Elevator trimming is accomplished by
means of a tab in each elevator. Each tab is operated by a rod at the
cable drum
assembly mounted in the elevator. A knurled thumb nut on the left side
of the
control stand provides a friction brake to prevent creeping of the tab
control.
...

B-17 cockpit controls:
http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/a-...rz6fDGiMXZaT4w

I've downloaded only one minute over dialup so far.

jsw

On 2010-09-01, Phred wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:22:36 -0500, Sunworshipper
scribed:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:03:32 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf

[ ... ]

I certainly don't have the time and pulling out of that groove is over
my capabilities.

The choices there would be either to have a CNC lathe to do that
work with, or to hand turn the spindle with a crank on the end (as some
people do when cutting non-native threads on a lathe (metric threads on
an inch lathe, or inch threads on a metric lathe). The reason for this
is that the threading dial does not work in a converted mode, so you
can't disengage the half-nuts while threading in the "wrong" mode.
Couple this with the radius needed in the bottom of the groove and that
is going to be a muscle workout.

Having the groove end in holes reminds me of how old threading
was sometimes done -- with the thread ending in a hole instead of a
runout groove. I suspect that was a lot easier to do with overhead
lineshafts and flat belt drive which you could make slip at your desire.

The end grooves, with their radiused bottoms would call for a
fairly heavy lathe too -- or ball end mills and a circular table.

But, even looking at it sideways, I wouldn't put in
the two circular grooves on the sides to reduce weight. The most of
the stress if it binds will be on the outsides of the cable rapped
around. What's a cubic inch of aluminum for a proven war bird that
will never carry again what it was designed for.

I think that the grooves are to provide access to the ends of
the cable for tying off. As I see it, the cable starts through the drum
with a knot in the end groove, takes several turns (probably four), then
goes off to the drum on the control at the other end of the aircraft
around its drum, and returns to go a final four or four and a half turns
around the original drum before being tied off in the end groove again.

And actually -- it looks more like a hole drilled down to gain
access to the end of the cable, not a turned groove. But why the
radiused bottom?

Like the other post, probably trim, the main yoke would be 5-6" dia.
not 2.5"

SW

Trim control sounds about right... Much less turn than rudder, and the
dimensions sound about right for tight control over a smaller drum
size and force, more precise control anyway... Or is the bigger the
drum, the more control you have?

The bigger the drum under your hands, the more motion at the far
end for a given motion at the near end -- but the more force is needed
to accomplish that motion.

For trim adjustments, I suspect that there is a worm gear
connected to a hand crank to rotate the drum by the keyway inside it
instead of a lever to move the surface quickly.

I was never a physics or calc guy...
I know the bigger a micrometer head, the more precise it is, probably
just cause there are just bigger graduations, more widely spaced,
thus, easier to read and interpret and "split the lines"...

Right. (And, of course, for that to be meaningful, the more
precise the spindle thread pitch has to be. :-)

Anyway - it looks like a job beyond my current capabilities,
especially making the part number marking according to spec. I suspect
that they were pressed in by a special punch, not hand punched one digit
at a time. Presuming that it needs to be as close to the original as
possible, even the size of the punches matters as well as the angular
spacing.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2 Sep 2010 04:04:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-09-01, Phred wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:22:36 -0500, Sunworshipper
scribed:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:03:32 -0400, Phred
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:02:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
scribed:

Phred wrote:

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/B-17_Part.pdf

[ ... ]

I certainly don't have the time and pulling out of that groove is over
my capabilities.

The choices there would be either to have a CNC lathe to do that
work with, or to hand turn the spindle with a crank on the end (as some
people do when cutting non-native threads on a lathe (metric threads on
an inch lathe, or inch threads on a metric lathe). The reason for this
is that the threading dial does not work in a converted mode, so you
can't disengage the half-nuts while threading in the "wrong" mode.
Couple this with the radius needed in the bottom of the groove and that
is going to be a muscle workout.

Having the groove end in holes reminds me of how old threading
was sometimes done -- with the thread ending in a hole instead of a
runout groove. I suspect that was a lot easier to do with overhead
lineshafts and flat belt drive which you could make slip at your desire.

The end grooves, with their radiused bottoms would call for a
fairly heavy lathe too -- or ball end mills and a circular table.

But, even looking at it sideways, I wouldn't put in
the two circular grooves on the sides to reduce weight. The most of
the stress if it binds will be on the outsides of the cable rapped
around. What's a cubic inch of aluminum for a proven war bird that
will never carry again what it was designed for.

I think that the grooves are to provide access to the ends of
the cable for tying off. As I see it, the cable starts through the drum
with a knot in the end groove, takes several turns (probably four), then
goes off to the drum on the control at the other end of the aircraft
around its drum, and returns to go a final four or four and a half turns
around the original drum before being tied off in the end groove again.

And actually -- it looks more like a hole drilled down to gain
access to the end of the cable, not a turned groove. But why the
radiused bottom?


I didn't see those holes, it is uncomfortable to view. Can't seem to
wrap my head around it, and no A&P, but I have worked on a number of
WWII planes. Typically the cable just wraps around and goes right back
in a long loop, that's why it turns so many times, to multiply the
friction. The radiused bottom could be for the "friction brake" (see
my other post), but there is another hole from left to right radius,
plus if the ends of the cables are there also???

Had to do an experiment in the shop to confirm it, what it could be is
each end of the cable are terminated in each of those holes and the
"two" cables wrapped around to meet towards the middle. Then the loop
end is wrapped around the slave drum in the tail. So essentially one
is being reeled in while the other is let out at the control. If that
is right the one in the tail won't be the same.

SW



Like the other post, probably trim, the main yoke would be 5-6" dia.
not 2.5"

SW

Trim control sounds about right... Much less turn than rudder, and the
dimensions sound about right for tight control over a smaller drum
size and force, more precise control anyway... Or is the bigger the
drum, the more control you have?

The bigger the drum under your hands, the more motion at the far
end for a given motion at the near end -- but the more force is needed
to accomplish that motion.

For trim adjustments, I suspect that there is a worm gear
connected to a hand crank to rotate the drum by the keyway inside it
instead of a lever to move the surface quickly.

I was never a physics or calc guy...
I know the bigger a micrometer head, the more precise it is, probably
just cause there are just bigger graduations, more widely spaced,
thus, easier to read and interpret and "split the lines"...

Right. (And, of course, for that to be meaningful, the more
precise the spindle thread pitch has to be. :-)

Anyway - it looks like a job beyond my current capabilities,
especially making the part number marking according to spec. I suspect
that they were pressed in by a special punch, not hand punched one digit
at a time. Presuming that it needs to be as close to the original as
possible, even the size of the punches matters as well as the angular
spacing.

Good Luck,
DoN.