Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.



--

Richard Lamb

On 2010-08-10, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


The book is extremely boring. I read it 10 years ago and did not even
finish. The author has a fascination with gun parts so 2/3 of the book
is about gun parts.

i

Ignoramus27168 wrote:
On 2010-08-10, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


The book is extremely boring. I read it 10 years ago and did not even
finish. The author has a fascination with gun parts so 2/3 of the book
is about gun parts.

i

No argument with that...

Actually, for a more readable, and a more realistic story,
I'd recommend "Defiance" (IIRC was named "Vandenburg" in first print)
by Oliver Lange.

This story is on a similar vein as The Movie Red Dawn but was written earlier.
It's well crafted and interesting.



--

Richard Lamb

cavelamb on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

Even if there was a "formal declaration" and an Official
Organization, it will still be called "murder." So what?

Does "murder" become acceptable because a guy is wearing an
official uniform, belongs to an Official Organization, and possibly
even draws a paycheck for such belonging? No.

But the real question to contemplate: if the government is not
constrained by the law, why should I be? Aside from the disparate
levels of force available?

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"We are today in the most literal sense a lawless society, for our law
has ceased to be law and become instead its opposite -- mere force at the
disposal of whoever is at the controls." Charles A. Reich, _Peters Quotations_, (c) 1977.

On Aug 10, 12:02*pm, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

--

Richard Lamb

I'm guessing that this is not the book you are referring to?

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CGkQ8wIwCw#

Pretty good read, lots of examples of things going wrong, missed the
references to the gun parts though.

On 2010-08-10, cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus27168 wrote:
On 2010-08-10, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


The book is extremely boring. I read it 10 years ago and did not even
finish. The author has a fascination with gun parts so 2/3 of the book
is about gun parts.

i

No argument with that...

Actually, for a more readable, and a more realistic story,
I'd recommend "Defiance" (IIRC was named "Vandenburg" in first print)
by Oliver Lange.

This story is on a similar vein as The Movie Red Dawn but was written earlier.
It's well crafted and interesting.

I bought that one, thanks

Cross-Slide wrote:
On Aug 10, 12:02 pm, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

--

Richard Lamb

I'm guessing that this is not the book you are referring to?

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CGkQ8wIwCw#

Pretty good read, lots of examples of things going wrong, missed the
references to the gun parts though.

Uh, no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninten...es_%28novel%29

Cross-Slide wrote:
On Aug 10, 12:02 pm, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

--

Richard Lamb

I'm guessing that this is not the book you are referring to?

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CGkQ8wIwCw#

Pretty good read, lots of examples of things going wrong, missed the
references to the gun parts though.

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--

Richard Lamb

pyotr filipivich wrote:
cavelamb on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

Even if there was a "formal declaration" and an Official
Organization, it will still be called "murder." So what?

Does "murder" become acceptable because a guy is wearing an
official uniform, belongs to an Official Organization, and possibly
even draws a paycheck for such belonging? No.

But the real question to contemplate: if the government is not
constrained by the law, why should I be? Aside from the disparate
levels of force available?

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich


I take your point, pytor, but yes, among nations, the formal declaration
is very important.

Change the scale of your thinking for a moment.

Instead of people, think nations.
Does a sovereign nation have the right to defend itself or not?

Your last point, however, is exactly the thesis of this book.
His argument is that BECAUSE of the difference in force, resources, etc
that can be brought to bear by the government, individual people should
rise up and kill government officials that had wronged them personally.
(At least that is what HAPPENED in the story)

Which now begs these questions...

Does the government have the right to defend it's members from the population?

Does the population have the right to defend themselves from the government?

Is there a limit to how far we can go?

If so, where is that limit?

I believe that the limits we impose on our personal behavior are normally
quite well marked.

But crowds are not people, and have no conscience.

And neither are governments.

--

Richard Lamb

cavelamb wrote:

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

I'm not endorsing the 'great cull' but war crimes and treason are generally committed by
the losers.

Wes

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--

What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


Yes. And?

Did you notice the final result were exactly as intended?

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:47:37 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

pyotr filipivich wrote:
cavelamb on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

Even if there was a "formal declaration" and an Official
Organization, it will still be called "murder." So what?

Does "murder" become acceptable because a guy is wearing an
official uniform, belongs to an Official Organization, and possibly
even draws a paycheck for such belonging? No.

But the real question to contemplate: if the government is not
constrained by the law, why should I be? Aside from the disparate
levels of force available?

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich


I take your point, pytor, but yes, among nations, the formal declaration
is very important.

So the US has engaged in widespread muder by being involved in

1. Vietnam conflict
2. Granada Conflict
3. Mogadesu Conflict
4. Baltic Conflict
5. Yugoslavic Conflict
6. Iraq Conflict
7. Afghanistan Conflict

None of those actions involved a formal Declaration of War.

Is that your claim?


Change the scale of your thinking for a moment.

Instead of people, think nations.
Does a sovereign nation have the right to defend itself or not?

Your last point, however, is exactly the thesis of this book.
His argument is that BECAUSE of the difference in force, resources, etc
that can be brought to bear by the government, individual people should
rise up and kill government officials that had wronged them personally.
(At least that is what HAPPENED in the story)

Which now begs these questions...

Does the government have the right to defend it's members from the population?

Does the population have the right to defend themselves from the government?

Is there a limit to how far we can go?

If so, where is that limit?

I believe that the limits we impose on our personal behavior are normally
quite well marked.

But crowds are not people, and have no conscience.

And neither are governments.

Hence the deaths of the guilty.

Sometimes, one simply has to raise the Black Flag, and start cutting
throats.

Gunner



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Cross-Slide
wrote:

On Aug 10, 12:02*pm, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

--

Richard Lamb

I'm guessing that this is not the book you are referring to?


Actually...no..its this one....

http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Con.../dp/1888118040



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:20:54 -0500, Ignoramus27168
wrote:

On 2010-08-10, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


The book is extremely boring. I read it 10 years ago and did not even
finish. The author has a fascination with gun parts so 2/3 of the book
is about gun parts.

You missed the whole point of the book, dude. Go back and read it to
the end this time, eh?

On 8/10/2010 6:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:20:54 -0500, Ignoramus27168
wrote:

On 2010-08-10, wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


The book is extremely boring. I read it 10 years ago and did not even
finish. The author has a fascination with gun parts so 2/3 of the book
is about gun parts.

You missed the whole point of the book, dude. Go back and read it to
the end this time, eh?


No, the point is the book is not that great. The thing is a fantasy.
It's completely not believable and it winds up being like a comic book,
just not anywhere near a realistic book. If you find a point in that
you're reading one into it.

Hawke

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:20:54 -0500, Ignoramus27168
wrote:

On 2010-08-10, cavelamb wrote:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


The book is extremely boring. I read it 10 years ago and did not even
finish. The author has a fascination with gun parts so 2/3 of the book
is about gun parts.

You missed the whole point of the book, dude. Go back and read it to
the end this time, eh?

If you liked that, you'll love his other book:

http://www.amazon.com/Puppy-Preschoo...tt_at_ep_dpt_2

It's for more mature audiences than _Unintended Consequences_, but the idea
is the same.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-08-11, Randy wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:53:40 -0400, Wes
wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--

What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes

Now $225.00 WOW.

Sorry no way I'm buying that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

If I still have mine, I would love to sell it and I can definitely
settle for less than that!

Randy wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:53:40 -0400, Wes
wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--
What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes

Now $225.00 WOW.

Sorry no way I'm buying that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Catch, Randy

--

Richard Lamb

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:53:40 -0400, Wes
wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--

What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes

Now $225.00 WOW.

Sorry no way I'm buying that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:42:03 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:53:40 -0400, Wes
wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--

What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes

Now $225.00 WOW.

Sorry no way I'm buying that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


Need a copy to read on your computer? They are readily available all
over the internet. About a 3.5meg download.

I sent 3 hard cover copies to the middle east, and got them all back,
signed and dated by the various readers, then resent them back to the ME
about 8 times. Ive lost track of them in the last couple years. I have
MY copy on the shelf of course and it doesnt go anywhere. But the book
itself is downloadble all across the Net.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:42:03 -0500, Randy wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:53:40 -0400, Wes
wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--
What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes
Now $225.00 WOW.

Sorry no way I'm buying that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


Need a copy to read on your computer? They are readily available all
over the internet. About a 3.5meg download.

I sent 3 hard cover copies to the middle east, and got them all back,
signed and dated by the various readers, then resent them back to the ME
about 8 times. Ive lost track of them in the last couple years. I have
MY copy on the shelf of course and it doesnt go anywhere. But the book
itself is downloadble all across the Net.


I understand Ross originally posted it to the public domain, but has
since withdrawn it in favor of selling hardcopies.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:52:35 -0500, Ignoramus9618
wrote:

On 2010-08-11, Randy wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:53:40 -0400, Wes
wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Hum, no, that's not the one...

this one has a much more interesting cover...
http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

--

What the heck. Did that book go out of print? Damn, glad I bought a copy when it was
cheap. The dust jacket on mine had a suggested price of 28.95 .

Wes

Now $225.00 WOW.

Sorry no way I'm buying that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

If I still have mine, I would love to sell it and I can definitely
settle for less than that!

The most Ive ever paid for a copy is $20. And the last 2 copies I got
less than 18 months ago, keeping one and giving the other to a buddy. I
paid hummm $3.95 each at a St Vincent Di Paul. At the same time
too..which is wierd..normally these are rare enough not to find 2 in the
same store, let along at the same time.

I think Ive bought at least 5 copies over the last 10-12 yrs.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Wes on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:49:15 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
cavelamb wrote:

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

I'm not endorsing the 'great cull' but war crimes and treason are generally committed by
the losers.

"War Crimes, like Heresy, is the actions of the losing side."
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

cavelamb on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:47:37 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
cavelamb on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.

Even if there was a "formal declaration" and an Official
Organization, it will still be called "murder." So what?

Does "murder" become acceptable because a guy is wearing an
official uniform, belongs to an Official Organization, and possibly
even draws a paycheck for such belonging? No.

But the real question to contemplate: if the government is not
constrained by the law, why should I be? Aside from the disparate
levels of force available?


I take your point, pytor, but yes, among nations, the formal declaration
is very important.

Change the scale of your thinking for a moment.

Instead of people, think nations.
Does a sovereign nation have the right to defend itself or not?

Does a state - yes. Does a people (the "nation") - also yes.

Your last point, however, is exactly the thesis of this book.
His argument is that BECAUSE of the difference in force, resources, etc
that can be brought to bear by the government, individual people should
rise up and kill government officials that had wronged them personally.
(At least that is what HAPPENED in the story)

Which now begs these questions...

Does the government have the right to defend it's members from the population?

Any organism includes self-defense as a fundamental.

Does the population have the right to defend themselves from the government?

Of course. But where non-violent change is not allowed, then
recourse to violent change is necessary.

Is there a limit to how far we can go?

If so, where is that limit?

By me, it is a personal question. I'm opposed to the use of
tactical nuclear weapons, persistent poison gases or artillery inside
city limits. I can understand those who would kill a tyrants entire
family, which doesn't mean I necessity approve. (I am not a "kill them
all, let the toasty one sort out his own" sort of person.)
And it depends where you find yourself. If there is no
alternative, then there is no problem. The alternative to "Victory or
death" is "maximum success or a reasonable alternative."

I believe that the limits we impose on our personal behavior are normally
quite well marked.

But crowds are not people, and have no conscience.

And neither are governments.

There is a saying that the IQ of a crowd is the average IQ of the
crowd divided by the number in the crowd.

OTOH, the problem I have with Unintended Consequences is that it
is too optimistic. Or mayhaps the book ends too soon. Certainly
Henry Bowman's "war" is over. From here on, he will fight no more.
But ... what about others? Those opposed to the DEA (as the Vail
anecdotes relate), are they included? There isn;'t a TLA which hasn't
****ed someone off for what they considered capricious reasons. All
Henry Bowman did was provide a catalyst for the use of political
murder as a means of seeking redress of grievances. The precedent is
now established (in that world) where killing government workers is
accepted.
That is what concerns me, about the book, or a Great Cull.
--
pyotr filipivich
Friends help you move, good friends help you move bodies. Really good
friends remove bodies, bloodstains and hot cars, then collect the IDs,
weapons and useful stuff." _After the Dragon's Egg_, the unbegun novel.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

OTOH, the problem I have with Unintended Consequences is that it
is too optimistic. Or mayhaps the book ends too soon. Certainly
Henry Bowman's "war" is over. From here on, he will fight no more.
But ... what about others? Those opposed to the DEA (as the Vail
anecdotes relate), are they included? There isn;'t a TLA which hasn't
****ed someone off for what they considered capricious reasons. All
Henry Bowman did was provide a catalyst for the use of political
murder as a means of seeking redress of grievances. The precedent is
now established (in that world) where killing government workers is
accepted.
That is what concerns me, about the book, or a Great Cull.

In this world, our government authorizes the killing of U.S. citizens,
without trial.

"...the U.S. government has created a “hit list” of Americans abroad
marked for murder."

http://pubrecord.org/nation/6905/gov...s-secret-list/

So how far are we from Henry Bowman's world?

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:37:44 -0400, John Husvar

snipped to get to the point


As Ive mentioned before..the American Revolution was fought by 10% of
the colonials. 10% of the People today is 30 million people. Half of
them own arms, the vast majority are well versed in which end goes bang.



Gunner, if only 10% of that 10% (a lousy 3 million) would show up and fall in in
their local parking lots, under arms, as a show of solidarity, not a single shot
would have to be fired.

The Revolution could be won in a single afternoon.
You'd have every politician in the whole world paying attention.
(and shaking in his patent leather shoes).
(and counting Votes needed for reelection)

That's the part about being organized.
Not a bunch of whiny individuals hiding out by themselves.


But an ORGANIZED MILITIA.


Do it again the next weekend, I'd expect the entire 30 million would be there.
Heck, even I'D show up!

Gar-roan-teed!

Now, you might be wondering, "Why you didn't I think of that".

Or you might be thinking, "What fun would that be"?

But the one thing you'd never think is, "Let's Do It!"


Respectfully,

Richard

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:39:19 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:37:44 -0400, John Husvar

snipped to get to the point


As Ive mentioned before..the American Revolution was fought by 10% of
the colonials. 10% of the People today is 30 million people. Half of
them own arms, the vast majority are well versed in which end goes bang.



Gunner, if only 10% of that 10% (a lousy 3 million) would show up and fall in in
their local parking lots, under arms, as a show of solidarity, not a single shot
would have to be fired.

The Revolution could be won in a single afternoon.
You'd have every politician in the whole world paying attention.
(and shaking in his patent leather shoes).
(and counting Votes needed for reelection)

That's the part about being organized.
Not a bunch of whiny individuals hiding out by themselves.


But an ORGANIZED MILITIA.

It cant be an organized militia. Check US Code 10

it has to be an Unorganized militia


Do it again the next weekend, I'd expect the entire 30 million would be there.
Heck, even I'D show up!

Gar-roan-teed!

Now, you might be wondering, "Why you didn't I think of that".

Or you might be thinking, "What fun would that be"?

But the one thing you'd never think is, "Let's Do It!"

You think you know me that well? We have never met.

Ive got bullet holes in my hide older than you.




Respectfully,

Richard


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

cavelamb wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:37:44 -0400, John Husvar

snipped to get to the point


As Ive mentioned before..the American Revolution was fought by 10% of
the colonials. 10% of the People today is 30 million people. Half of
them own arms, the vast majority are well versed in which end goes bang.



Gunner, if only 10% of that 10% (a lousy 3 million) would show up and
fall in in
their local parking lots, under arms, as a show of solidarity, not a
single shot
would have to be fired.

The Revolution could be won in a single afternoon.
You'd have every politician in the whole world paying attention.
(and shaking in his patent leather shoes).
(and counting Votes needed for reelection)

That's the part about being organized.
Not a bunch of whiny individuals hiding out by themselves.


But an ORGANIZED MILITIA.


Do it again the next weekend, I'd expect the entire 30 million would be
there. Heck, even I'D show up!

Sign me up.

Gunner Asch wrote:

Now, you might be wondering, "Why you didn't I think of that".

Or you might be thinking, "What fun would that be"?

But the one thing you'd never think is, "Let's Do It!"

You think you know me that well? We have never met.


No, I don't 'spect I do know what kind of person you are.


But I do know what kind of person you aren't...

cavelamb on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:39:19 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:37:44 -0400, John Husvar

snipped to get to the point

As Ive mentioned before..the American Revolution was fought by 10% of
the colonials. 10% of the People today is 30 million people. Half of
them own arms, the vast majority are well versed in which end goes bang

Gunner, if only 10% of that 10% (a lousy 3 million) would show up and fall in in
their local parking lots, under arms, as a show of solidarity, not a single shot
would have to be fired.

Uh-huh. Who is the first to sign the loyalty oaths? Traitors and
Superpatriots...

Who's first at the anti-government rally? Traitors and
Superpatriots. Only the later are often called "agents in place".

The Revolution could be won in a single afternoon.
You'd have every politician in the whole world paying attention.
(and shaking in his patent leather shoes).
(and counting Votes needed for reelection)

That's the part about being organized.
Not a bunch of whiny individuals hiding out by themselves.


But an ORGANIZED MILITIA.


Do it again the next weekend, I'd expect the entire 30 million would be there.
Heck, even I'D show up!

Gar-roan-teed!

Now, you might be wondering, "Why you didn't I think of that".

Or you might be thinking, "What fun would that be"?

But the one thing you'd never think is, "Let's Do It!"


Respectfully,

Richard
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:
snipped to get to the point

Uh-huh. Who is the first to sign the loyalty oaths? Traitors and
Superpatriots...

Who's first at the anti-government rally? Traitors and
Superpatriots. Only the later are often called "agents in place".

That's technically true, pytor.
But it's in good company.


These guys organized, created an army, and won the day.
But had they lost they would all been hung as traitors.



President of Congress

1. John Hancock (Massachusetts)

New Hampshire

2. Josiah Bartlett
3. William Whipple
4. Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts

5. Samuel Adams
6. John Adams
7. Robert Treat Paine
8. Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island

9. Stephen Hopkins
10. William Ellery

Connecticut

11. Roger Sherman
12. Samuel Huntington
13. William Williams
14. Oliver Wolcott

New York

15. William Floyd
16. Philip Livingston
17. Francis Lewis
18. Lewis Morris



New Jersey

19. Richard Stockton
20. John Witherspoon
21. Francis Hopkinson
22. John Hart
23. Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania

24. Robert Morris
25. Benjamin Rush
26. Benjamin Franklin
27. John Morton
28. George Clymer
29. James Smith
30. George Taylor
31. James Wilson
32. George Ross

Delaware

33. George Read
34. Caesar Rodney
35. Thomas McKean

Maryland

36. Samuel Chase
37. William Paca
38. Thomas Stone
39. Charles Carroll of Carrollton



Virginia

40. George Wythe
41. Richard Henry Lee
42. Thomas Jefferson
43. Benjamin Harrison
44. Thomas Nelson, Jr.
45. Francis Lightfoot Lee
46. Carter Braxton

North Carolina

47. William Hooper
48. Joseph Hewes
49. John Penn

South Carolina

50. Edward Rutledge
51. Thomas Heyward, Jr.
52. Thomas Lynch, Jr.
53. Arthur Middleton

Georgia

54. Button Gwinnett
55. Lyman Hall
56. George Walton

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:39:19 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:37:44 -0400, John Husvar
snipped to get to the point

As Ive mentioned before..the American Revolution was fought by 10% of
the colonials. 10% of the People today is 30 million people. Half of
them own arms, the vast majority are well versed in which end goes bang.


Gunner, if only 10% of that 10% (a lousy 3 million) would show up and fall in in
their local parking lots, under arms, as a show of solidarity, not a single shot
would have to be fired.

The Revolution could be won in a single afternoon.
You'd have every politician in the whole world paying attention.
(and shaking in his patent leather shoes).
(and counting Votes needed for reelection)

That's the part about being organized.
Not a bunch of whiny individuals hiding out by themselves.


But an ORGANIZED MILITIA.

It cant be an organized militia. Check US Code 10

it has to be an Unorganized militia



Now, let me see if I've got this right.
We can organize because it's against the law.

But we can kill government officials - because we want to?

Help me here....

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:22:58 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Now, you might be wondering, "Why you didn't I think of that".

Or you might be thinking, "What fun would that be"?

But the one thing you'd never think is, "Let's Do It!"

You think you know me that well? We have never met.


No, I don't 'spect I do know what kind of person you are.


But I do know what kind of person you aren't...

You think you do.

Shrug..but..you can have your illusions.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:11:33 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:39:19 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:37:44 -0400, John Husvar
snipped to get to the point

As Ive mentioned before..the American Revolution was fought by 10% of
the colonials. 10% of the People today is 30 million people. Half of
them own arms, the vast majority are well versed in which end goes bang.


Gunner, if only 10% of that 10% (a lousy 3 million) would show up and fall in in
their local parking lots, under arms, as a show of solidarity, not a single shot
would have to be fired.

The Revolution could be won in a single afternoon.
You'd have every politician in the whole world paying attention.
(and shaking in his patent leather shoes).
(and counting Votes needed for reelection)

That's the part about being organized.
Not a bunch of whiny individuals hiding out by themselves.


But an ORGANIZED MILITIA.

It cant be an organized militia. Check US Code 10

it has to be an Unorganized militia



Now, let me see if I've got this right.
We can organize because it's against the law.

Actually..its not against the law. Its quite legal and Constitutionally
mandated.

But we can kill government officials - because we want to?

Help me here....

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...rien/blood.htm

The [ ] ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model
into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at
length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the
ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more
wonderful, we have believed them ourselves.

Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in
the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an
instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's
motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we
should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be
all, & always well informed.

The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the
importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under
such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the
public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has
been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half
for each state

.. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a
rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers
are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit
of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to
facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century
or two?

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood
of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson, November 17, 1787




"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Gunner Asch wrote:

I always wondered what happened to John Ross and if I can trust wiki, he is alive and
kicking.

He spent a lot of money getting concealed carry passed in Misouri and married a penthouse
babe. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Chapman)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_%28author%29

http://www.john-ross.net/

Wes

And he has continued to care for her through both mastectomies and so
forth.

Good man~!

I would expect nothing less from the man that wrote that masterpiece. He put his heart
and belief system into it.


Which reminds me of something I read in an interview with Ross....


http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/john_ross.htm

What has been your proudest moment as a writer?

There were a number of good memories, such as getting my first
four-figure check, seeing the pallets of bound copies of my novel at the
publisher's warehouse, doing my first public book signing, and getting
asked to address a discussion club for the first time.

However, these all pale compared to what happened when I listened to my
voicemail messages one day and heard the following message:

[Agitated woman] "John Ross? Is this thing recording? I just thought
you'd like to know that you and your goddamn book have ruined my
honeymoon. Probably my marriage, too. I can't believe my-" [muffled
sound, a second voice, faint, as if a hand is over the receiver, then
the hand being pried off] "Give me that... you *******, you haven't
even-" [more muffled noises, then a man's voice on the phone:

[Man] "Mr. Ross?"

[The woman, from several feet away] "It's his answering machine."

[Man] "Oh." [relieved] "Uh...Mr. Ross, this is, uh, well, never mind my
name, but-"

[Woman in background, yelling] "His name's _________! [name deleted for
privacy]

[Man] "Yeah, uh it's_________, that's right. Uh, Mr. Ross, I'm kind of
on my honeymoon, and-"

[Woman, screaming now] "KIND OF on your honeymoon?" [muffled sound of
hand covering receiver, alternating screaming and soothing tones, but I
can't make out the words]

[Man] "Listen, I started reading your book on the plane 'cause it was a
four hour flight, you know, and now I just can't put it down. And it's
pretty long, you know, so I'm still not finished, and my wife, well, I
haven't been paying enough attention to her, and-"

[Woman, screaming loud enough for me to hear even though the man quickly
covers the mouthpiece again] "IT'S THE SECOND DAY OF OUR HONEYMOON AND
YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ****ED ME YET!"

[Man] Um, I guess you heard that, Mr. Ross. Look, everything's going to
be okay, I'm almost finished with it and I can't tell you how much I'm
enj- GIVE ME THAT BACK RIGHT NOW!" [Sound of scuffle and phone being
hung up].

I got a follow-up call a day later, where the husband assured me that
everything was all right and his wife wasn't going to file for an
annulment.

ROTFLMAO. If you are part of the gun culture, Gunner's rendition of the caller seems
perfectly normal.

I read about 650 wpm and for the one time in my life, I envied those that read slow.

Thanks for a good story there Guns. It was my smile before heading off to the icky sticki
currently called work.

Wes

cavelamb on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:09:26 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
snipped to get to the point

Uh-huh. Who is the first to sign the loyalty oaths? Traitors and
Superpatriots...

Who's first at the anti-government rally? Traitors and
Superpatriots. Only the later are often called "agents in place".

That's technically true, pytor.
But it's in good company.


These guys organized, created an army, and won the day.
But had they lost they would all been hung as traitors.


"Treason never prospers.
for if it prospers, why
None dare call it treason."

What concerns me is the history of "agents" of the security organs
who are the loudest proponents of violence, used to ferret out the
malcontents and get them all in one place, so the Chekii can pick them
up in one fell swoop.
But you cant bee too paranoid.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


Yes. And?

Did you notice the final result were exactly as intended?

Gunner


It is fiction, gunner.

ANYTHING can happen there.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:30:04 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

cavelamb on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:09:26 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
snipped to get to the point

Uh-huh. Who is the first to sign the loyalty oaths? Traitors and
Superpatriots...

Who's first at the anti-government rally? Traitors and
Superpatriots. Only the later are often called "agents in place".

That's technically true, pytor.
But it's in good company.


These guys organized, created an army, and won the day.
But had they lost they would all been hung as traitors.


"Treason never prospers.
for if it prospers, why
None dare call it treason."

What concerns me is the history of "agents" of the security organs
who are the loudest proponents of violence, used to ferret out the
malcontents and get them all in one place, so the Chekii can pick them
up in one fell swoop.
But you cant bee too paranoid.

Which is why the all the white supremist groups and virtually every
black group has long ben infiltrated by government agents.

Another reason "leaderless resistiance" works so well.





"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 04:14:09 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:02:16 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner,

I finished it last night and can see why you might get a hard on for it.

The Great Cull in action!

But, bear with for a moment...
Without organization - such as a militia -
and without a formal declaration -

it's just murder.


Yes. And?

Did you notice the final result were exactly as intended?

Gunner


It is fiction, gunner.

ANYTHING can happen there.

Really? Im sorry you are so ignorant of political and social..and
yes...military realities.

Shrug

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9