Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.
- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at
Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAWsy7VV8oE

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Yes, really. Not sure on convenient cites, but they made the local TV
news here a year or two over that very issue with one of their members
in an area branch who married outside the cult and was being kicked out.
The coverage included interviews with their leadership confirming and
trying to downplay the issue, so it wasn't a case of a denied
accusation.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at
Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most
certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


If I was one of you, I guess I would say that I can't blame you.
http://tinyurl.com/295joxv

On 2010-08-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

[ ... ]

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

[ ... ]

- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

It triggered my curiosity, so a quick Google search on
'"Salvation Army" marriage policy' (the last word suggested by Google as
one of several choices) brings up this, which appears to be a Salvation
Army site and appears to at least partially support his claim:

http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/usc/WWW_USC.nsf/vw-news/9EF6EB58374D2EA9862575160074F309?opendocument

sorry about the long URL.

Apparently -- it is only the "officers" who have this limitation on
marriage. The guys who play in the band are not so controlled.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 20:03:37 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Yes, really. Not sure on convenient cites, but they made the local TV
news here a year or two over that very issue with one of their members
in an area branch who married outside the cult and was being kicked out.
The coverage included interviews with their leadership confirming and
trying to downplay the issue, so it wasn't a case of a denied
accusation.

Salvation Army is a cult....????

Odd..Ive been associated with it several times over the years, both from
a buyer of goods, to a donater of services. I dont recall anything like
you are claiming.

I installed a fire alarm system (gratis) to a SA "hostel" a number of
years ago, among other things.

Interesting that you think that way.


Gunner, Rensi Buddist/Reformed



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 20:03:37 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Yes, really. Not sure on convenient cites, but they made the local TV
news here a year or two over that very issue with one of their members
in an area branch who married outside the cult and was being kicked out.
The coverage included interviews with their leadership confirming and
trying to downplay the issue, so it wasn't a case of a denied
accusation.

Salvation Army is a cult....????

Odd..Ive been associated with it several times over the years, both from
a buyer of goods, to a donater of services. I dont recall anything like
you are claiming.

I installed a fire alarm system (gratis) to a SA "hostel" a number of
years ago, among other things.

Interesting that you think that way.

Look at Don's link, it provides confirmation of what I indicated.

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:09:01 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 20:03:37 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Yes, really. Not sure on convenient cites, but they made the local TV
news here a year or two over that very issue with one of their members
in an area branch who married outside the cult and was being kicked out.
The coverage included interviews with their leadership confirming and
trying to downplay the issue, so it wasn't a case of a denied
accusation.

Salvation Army is a cult....????

Odd..Ive been associated with it several times over the years, both from
a buyer of goods, to a donater of services. I dont recall anything like
you are claiming.

I installed a fire alarm system (gratis) to a SA "hostel" a number of
years ago, among other things.

Interesting that you think that way.

Look at Don's link, it provides confirmation of what I indicated.

Please point out the parts of the indicated link that shows its a cult.

Ill be watching with interest.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Please list a couple of those qualifications. I'm curious.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person
usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and
that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most
certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.
- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:09:01 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 20:03:37 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Yes, really. Not sure on convenient cites, but they made the local TV
news here a year or two over that very issue with one of their members
in an area branch who married outside the cult and was being kicked out.
The coverage included interviews with their leadership confirming and
trying to downplay the issue, so it wasn't a case of a denied
accusation.

Salvation Army is a cult....????

Odd..Ive been associated with it several times over the years, both from
a buyer of goods, to a donater of services. I dont recall anything like
you are claiming.

I installed a fire alarm system (gratis) to a SA "hostel" a number of
years ago, among other things.

Interesting that you think that way.

Look at Don's link, it provides confirmation of what I indicated.

Please point out the parts of the indicated link that shows its a cult.

If you can't see that it's a cult from the evidence, you just don't want
to see it.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person
usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and
that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

So which one of those applies to the SA?

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:29:25 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:09:01 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 20:03:37 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:19 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

how so? Im quite curious about how you arrived at that.

A couple starters, you can readily find more if you look...

- They wear military style uniforms in their cult.

So do the boy scouts.

I aint' too fond of them either.


- They forbid their members to marry outside their cult and will kick
members out if they do.

Really? Cites?

Yes, really. Not sure on convenient cites, but they made the local TV
news here a year or two over that very issue with one of their members
in an area branch who married outside the cult and was being kicked out.
The coverage included interviews with their leadership confirming and
trying to downplay the issue, so it wasn't a case of a denied
accusation.

Salvation Army is a cult....????

Odd..Ive been associated with it several times over the years, both from
a buyer of goods, to a donater of services. I dont recall anything like
you are claiming.

I installed a fire alarm system (gratis) to a SA "hostel" a number of
years ago, among other things.

Interesting that you think that way.

Look at Don's link, it provides confirmation of what I indicated.

Please point out the parts of the indicated link that shows its a cult.

If you can't see that it's a cult from the evidence, you just don't want
to see it.

Ive looked over the evidence, and oddly enough...I simply cannot see any
"cult".

Ive also read Stormin's 10 Things that define a cult..and the closest I
can see is #4.

So Im really really curious as to what makes it a cult.

Please advise!!!


Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person
usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and
that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

So which one of those applies to the SA?

1,4,5,6,7

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.


What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?


7. the members of such a religion or sect.

So what part is false etc etc etc?

8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person
usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and
that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

So which one of those applies to the SA?

1,4,5,6,7

Please advise! What do you know that the rest of us are unaware of?
Sacrificing/sex rights with children? Sacred Underware? Special foods
and whatnot?

Please, this is very interesting!


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

"Pete C." on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

So you don't know, or you assume that it must be so?


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

So what binds the Salvation Army together? What is so different
about that "binding" element?


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

So, they prefer that you not marry outside the organization, and
that makes them a cult? Does the expression "be not yoked with
unbelievers" ring any bells?


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Ah, so being different is what makes them a cult in your eyes.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"Pete C." wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

Then give us some info!!


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

Im confused there. Please indicate what that "thing" is, if you would
be so kind.


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

Which was what? That they wanted their management to be part of a
husband and wife team? Sounds like Corporate America.


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Must marry, or should marry?

Please..you are being quite "general" in your comments, so please
provide us some specifics with perhaps some details, if you would be so
kind.

Im looking forward to reading them.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Pete C." on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

So you don't know, or you assume that it must be so?


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

So what binds the Salvation Army together? What is so different
about that "binding" element?


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

So, they prefer that you not marry outside the organization, and
that makes them a cult? Does the expression "be not yoked with
unbelievers" ring any bells?


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Ah, so being different is what makes them a cult in your eyes.

Someone posted accepted definitions of a cult, and I indicated which of
those definitions the SA met. If you don't like that they meet nearly
all of the definitions of a cult, that's your problem and doesn't change
the fact that they do indeed meet those accepted definitions.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

Then give us some info!!


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

Im confused there. Please indicate what that "thing" is, if you would
be so kind.


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

Which was what? That they wanted their management to be part of a
husband and wife team? Sounds like Corporate America.


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Must marry, or should marry?

Read their own docs and find out for yourself.


Please..you are being quite "general" in your comments, so please
provide us some specifics with perhaps some details, if you would be so
kind.

Im looking forward to reading them.

No you aren't, you just want to continue you worthless babble, and
ignore the facts that Don posted SA's own links confirming what I said,
as well as the fact that Stormin' posted accepted definitions of a cult
and I pointed out that the SA meets nearly all of those definitions.

Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash.

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:06:06 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

Then give us some info!!


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

Im confused there. Please indicate what that "thing" is, if you would
be so kind.


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

Which was what? That they wanted their management to be part of a
husband and wife team? Sounds like Corporate America.


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Must marry, or should marry?

Read their own docs and find out for yourself.

Please post a valid link to their own docs if you would be so kind.


Please..you are being quite "general" in your comments, so please
provide us some specifics with perhaps some details, if you would be so
kind.

Im looking forward to reading them.

No you aren't, you just want to continue you worthless babble, and
ignore the facts that Don posted SA's own links confirming what I said,
as well as the fact that Stormin' posted accepted definitions of a cult
and I pointed out that the SA meets nearly all of those definitions.

So you are such a good friend that you actually know what Im thinking?
Or are you simply riled up that my interest..open minded...wont lead me
to condemn you..or laugh at you..and you are confused about it?

Ill be more than willing to look at everything you post that convinces
me that your claim is true.

If you choose not to provide valid Stuff for me to read..Ill simply have
to keep an open mind.

Is there a problem with that?

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash.

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

Interesting choices of words.

So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an
athiest?

Gunner, Rensi Buddhist-Reformed



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Aug 10, 8:05*pm, Wes wrote:
"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. *Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? *Wow, news flash.

Who said that?

On Aug 11, 2:41*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:







Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. *Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? *Wow, news flash.

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

Interesting choices of words.

So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an
athiest?

Gunner, Rensi Buddhist-Reformed


Bull****. You saying that is a slap in the face to Buddhists,

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:04:23 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:06:06 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

Then give us some info!!


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

Im confused there. Please indicate what that "thing" is, if you would
be so kind.


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

Which was what? That they wanted their management to be part of a
husband and wife team? Sounds like Corporate America.


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Must marry, or should marry?

Read their own docs and find out for yourself.

Please post a valid link to their own docs if you would be so kind.


Please..you are being quite "general" in your comments, so please
provide us some specifics with perhaps some details, if you would be so
kind.

Im looking forward to reading them.

No you aren't, you just want to continue you worthless babble, and
ignore the facts that Don posted SA's own links confirming what I said,
as well as the fact that Stormin' posted accepted definitions of a cult
and I pointed out that the SA meets nearly all of those definitions.

So you are such a good friend that you actually know what Im thinking?
Or are you simply riled up that my interest..open minded...wont lead me
to condemn you..or laugh at you..and you are confused about it?

Ill be more than willing to look at everything you post that convinces
me that your claim is true.

If you choose not to provide valid Stuff for me to read..Ill simply have
to keep an open mind.

Is there a problem with that?

For those who can't follow the thread, here is the link Don provided:

http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/usc/WWW_USC.nsf/vw-news/9EF6EB58374D2EA9862575160074F309?opendocument

Salvation Army Officer Marriage Policy
Send this page to a friend Email envelope
Released 5 December 2008

The Salvation Army is a 143-year old church and faith-based social
service organization working in more than 115 countries. The 3,500
active U.S. officers who direct our community outreach, including our
churches – called Corps -- are ordained clergy, attending two-year
seminary programs and committing to lives of singular focus: to serve
suffering humanity in Christ's name without discrimination. An
additional 60,000 employees support the work of The Salvation Army in
the United States. These individuals are hired in a traditional manner,
based on credentials and aptitude for a specific position, and their
personal lives are not affected by organizational policy.

The policy relating to officer (clergy) marriage is related to the
spiritual aspect of the Army and is almost as old as the organization
itself. It is still in practice based on the fact that this singular
focus of officer couples, each with the same calling to ministry and
working together for the same purpose, directly contributes to the
efficiency and effectiveness of The Salvation Army’s service in the
United States. Additionally, given the demanding nature of the work, we
have found that couples are better able to support each other and their
families when committed to joint ministry. Each officer "cadet" is made
aware of this policy before attending one of The Salvation Army’s
two-year, officer training schools.

Today, our organization serves an average of 30 million Americans in
personal crisis each year and commits nearly 83 cents of every dollar
received to direct service – a testament to the commitment of Salvation
Army officers, employees, volunteers and donors.



Ok..this still doesnt answer the several questions I asked.

Please point out the answers to my questions if you would be so kind. I
am getting older..and my brain isnt as sharp as it used to be when I was
3-4 yrs old.

And please provide information on that "joint ministry" portion that I
suspect has your knickers in knots.

Gunner



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash.

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

Interesting choices of words.

So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an
athiest?

Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious
mythology to shield me from the real world.

Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter.

Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people
devoting their lives to their religion in such a fashion?

Nah...it couldnt be...could it? You are not a leftwinger are you?
They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other
people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so
that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out.....

Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a
direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists?

You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief,
dont you?




Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at
Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most
certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require
their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their
employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash.

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

Interesting choices of words.

So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an
athiest?

Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious
mythology to shield me from the real world.

Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter.

Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people
devoting their lives to their religion in such a fashion?

Nah...it couldnt be...could it? You are not a leftwinger are you?
They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other
people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so
that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out.....

Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a
direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists?

You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief,
dont you?

Gunner, if you're a Buddhist, and not some hyphenated theist, then you're an
atheist, too. Buddhism is a non-theistic relgion; its premise is that god(s)
are unnecessary. There is no "god" in Buddhism. Atheism means "without
god(s)." It's something you share with Pete -- if you're telling the truth.

--
Ed Huntress

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:45 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:09:02 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:


Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Wes wrote:

Conscience wrote:

Target, sure, but I still won't shop at Walmart.

I haven't forgiven Target for driving off the Salvation Army at Christmas. Shoppers vote
with dollars.

I reward companies for not supporting cults, and the SA most certainly
meets all the definitions of a cult.

Would Planned Parenthood meet your definition of a cult?

Nope, not even close. They don't worship anything, they don't wear
militaristic uniforms, they don't have members, they don't require their
employees to believe in anything, they don't dictate who their employees
can marry, etc.

Planned parenthood is filled with pro life types? Wow, news flash.

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

Interesting choices of words.

So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an
athiest?

Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious
mythology to shield me from the real world.

Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter.

Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people
devoting their lives to their religion in such a fashion?

Nah...it couldnt be...could it?

I certainly do have an issue with mentally ill people trying to force
their delusions on me.

You are not a leftwinger are you?

Not even close. I'm a centrist extremist - pro-choice pro-gun.

They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other
people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so
that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out.....

You do realize that the superstitious groups you are trying to defend
are the haters and bigots. Recall all the atheist billboards being
vandalized by religious loons and all the religious billboards not being
vandalized by atheists.


Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a
direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists?

I call them what they are, and they do indeed match the cult definitions
provided by mr Stormin'.


You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief,
dont you?

It is an evidence supported belief, unlike religious mythology.

The promoters of religious mythology have had many thousands of years to
find an supporting evidence for their superstitions, and have failed to
find one shred of evidence, much less proof. One by one their
mythological claims have been proven false by overwhelming evidence. The
ones who think the earth is 6,000 years old are truly laughable and
should be in a loony bin, since there are live trees older than that,
and mountains (literally) of evidence proven to be millions of years
old.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:50:13 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

It is not staffed by delusional anti choice religious nuts if that's
what you're getting at. The catholic church with their nazi pedophile
protecting pope isn't staffed by pro choice types either. You can also
draw your own conclusions on which group has violently attacked the
other as well.

Interesting choices of words.

So Roger, which..if any..religious faith do you belong to? Or are you an
athiest?

Life long devout atheist. I have never needed a fairy tale religious
mythology to shield me from the real world.

Ok...so now I think we are getting to the root of the matter.

Could it be that your sureity is such that you have issues with people
devoting their lives to their religion in such a fashion?

Nah...it couldnt be...could it?

I certainly do have an issue with mentally ill people trying to force
their delusions on me.

So the Salvation Army has been trying to force their delusions on you?

Interesting. How did they do that? Tied you into a chair and used long
political videos pumped directly into your brain via headsets?

You are not a leftwinger are you?

Not even close. I'm a centrist extremist - pro-choice pro-gun.

Good for you! But..what is the "extremist" part? 68% of Americans
believe in the 2nd Amendment. That hardly makes you an extremist.

They are the only people that I know that are that bigoted to hate other
people because of their religion...well..Im sure you arent a Muslim..so
that leaves that pack of haters and bigots out.....

You do realize that the superstitious groups you are trying to defend
are the haters and bigots. Recall all the atheist billboards being
vandalized by religious loons and all the religious billboards not being
vandalized by atheists.

Frankly..based on your contempt for them..and for the 175 Million dead
murdered by the other atheiests in the last 100 yrs..the Soviets and Red
Chinese....Id have to say you got some misinformation ....and that you
may be a hater and bigot in your own right.


Could it be because of their chosen careers..you would call them..as a
direct opposite of your religious beliefs...cultists?

I call them what they are, and they do indeed match the cult definitions
provided by mr Stormin'.

So then...Catholics, Lutherns, Rensi Buddists and Jews...etc etc etc are
also cultists then by your definitons?


You do know that Atheism is just another unprovable religious belief,
dont you?

It is an evidence supported belief, unlike religious mythology.

Evidence? Please point out the "evidence" that you are talking
about..the evidence your religion is based on.


The promoters of religious mythology have had many thousands of years to
find an supporting evidence for their superstitions, and have failed to
find one shred of evidence, much less proof. One by one their
mythological claims have been proven false by overwhelming evidence. The
ones who think the earth is 6,000 years old are truly laughable and
should be in a loony bin, since there are live trees older than that,
and mountains (literally) of evidence proven to be millions of years
old.

So it should be simple for you to provide evidence that there is no
God(s)

Id be happy as a lark to look at it.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Awwww, horseapples, you two!

"Cult" is merely a sociological term for fitting all or part of a list
of behaviors. It is value neutral -- except for the connotations it has
accreted in non-academic and media use.

Every religion I've ever heard of has some or all of the characteristics
of a "cult." Goes with the territory.

Atheism can't be a religion in the usual Western sense because it
doesn't accept the central thesis of such religions: a god. (Eastern and
other philosopho-religions are their own special cases.)

As far as provability, fuggedaboutit: Theists can't prove there is a god
and atheists can't prove there isn't. (that proving a negative thingy)
(Even Dyslexic Agnostics can't "prove" their case(s).

Neither position is subject to empirical or logical proof since what is
to be proved doesn't seem to exhibit any reliable evidence either way.

IMHO, about the only tenable position is: I don't know and probably
can't know and probably wouldn't be able to grasp it if I could know,
being stuck with a finite mind.

Not to say the thread hasn't been fun to read, doncha know.

Now does this muddy the waters any more? :P

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:19:45 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:

Awwww, horseapples, you two!

"Cult" is merely a sociological term for fitting all or part of a list
of behaviors. It is value neutral -- except for the connotations it has
accreted in non-academic and media use.

Every religion I've ever heard of has some or all of the characteristics
of a "cult." Goes with the territory.

Atheism can't be a religion in the usual Western sense because it
doesn't accept the central thesis of such religions: a god. (Eastern and
other philosopho-religions are their own special cases.)

As far as provability, fuggedaboutit: Theists can't prove there is a god
and atheists can't prove there isn't. (that proving a negative thingy)
(Even Dyslexic Agnostics can't "prove" their case(s).

Neither position is subject to empirical or logical proof since what is
to be proved doesn't seem to exhibit any reliable evidence either way.

IMHO, about the only tenable position is: I don't know and probably
can't know and probably wouldn't be able to grasp it if I could know,
being stuck with a finite mind.

Not to say the thread hasn't been fun to read, doncha know.

Now does this muddy the waters any more? :P


But of course! And you raise very good..nay..excellent considerations.

When it comes to religions..there is only one Honest man..and thats the
Agnostic. Because he admits not knowing, one way or another.


Atheism, just another form of religious cultism.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

"Pete C." on Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:03:33 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Pete C." on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:24:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 08:47:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Thanks for the definition. I'd thought a cult was a following, often
religious. Led by a charismatic leader who claims some new revelation.
Had to look it up:
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to
its rites and ceremonies.

What rites and ceremonies does the SA have?

Plenty, and that definition is not exclusive to rites and ceremonies.

So you don't know, or you assume that it must be so?


2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp.
as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing,
person, ideal, etc.

Which "thing" binds them together thats different from other religious
groups?
Other than Good Works.

I didn't say that the cult definition didn't apply to other religious
groups.

So what binds the Salvation Army together? What is so different
about that "binding" element?


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites
centering around their sacred symbols.

What is their ideology and sacred symbols? Other than the crucifix and
the $ sign?

The link to their own site that Don provided shows some of their
ideology with respect to marriage outside their cult.

So, they prefer that you not marry outside the organization, and
that makes them a cult? Does the expression "be not yoked with
unbelievers" ring any bells?


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or
extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society
under the direction of a charismatic leader.

So what part of the organization is false, unorthodox and extremist? Is
this like St Vincent de Paul..which is the Catholic charity?

Dictating that cult members must marry within the cult is certainly
considered extremist by most people, one of the reasons it made the
mainstream news when the issue came up.

Ah, so being different is what makes them a cult in your eyes.

Someone posted accepted definitions of a cult, and I indicated which of
those definitions the SA met.

Yet you say they meet those definitions, but don't clarify in what
manner they do. What do they do that meets the criterion.

If you don't like that they meet nearly
all of the definitions of a cult, that's your problem and doesn't change
the fact that they do indeed meet those accepted definitions.

The problem I have is that from the outside, every organization
can be called a cult, especially by those who have an animus against
it. Ever ask yourself "was [the organization I was in] a 'cult'?"
"been there, done that."

tschus
pyotr



--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!