With this Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I find myself doing things
that I have never done before, like milling deep pockets. So I have
new challenges. The current one is chip clearance. Say, I mill a deep
pocket. How do I get the chips out of there? On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

With wax and such, I use a Shop-Vac. I am not sure if it would work
with steel as well, or even aluminum, due to greater density of
chips.

i

Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

You'd be amazed at what a lamilar stream of coolant at 15-20psi will do.

You aren't constrained to a single nozzle. Use as many as you need,
primarily trailing the work (except the one _actually_ cooling the bit).

You just have to shield the work area so the coolant stays in the work
area.

If you need to suck the stuff up, consider a venturi vacuum, ported back
to the coolant tank (on the work side of the filter sock GGG!

There's a reason that CNC centers are often fully-enclosed G.

LLoyd

On 2010-07-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

You'd be amazed at what a lamilar stream of coolant at 15-20psi will do.

You aren't constrained to a single nozzle. Use as many as you need,
primarily trailing the work (except the one _actually_ cooling the bit).

You just have to shield the work area so the coolant stays in the work
area.

If you need to suck the stuff up, consider a venturi vacuum, ported back
to the coolant tank (on the work side of the filter sock GGG!

There's a reason that CNC centers are often fully-enclosed G.

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

i

Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

My R2E4 has a large coolant tank/catch basin that slides around the base
of the machine. The pump will produce about 30psi at 3gpm. That'll work
two or three 3/8" or 1/4" nozzles just fine.

The "hard stream" is what moves the chips. Not by "pressure", per se,
but by the inertia of the solid stream of fluid. A 3/8" solid stream
moving at (say) 30fps will push a big dimple into the heel of your hand.
Think about what it will do encountering loose chips of all ilk. Even if
they aren't "blasted" from the pocket, the pocket will alternately flood
and be blown out, and constantly re-circulated by both the coolant stream
and the motion of the bit, removing most of the metal on each cycle.

At the injection molder where I worked for a few months, the guy had a
small CNC mill (like 12x8 throws) for pocketing new molds. He had one
1/4" flexi-nozzle (snap-bead style) blasting right at the tool tip, and
it gave elegant finishes. So I suspect chip removal was adequate.

LLoyd

"Ignoramus6705" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

You'd be amazed at what a lamilar stream of coolant at 15-20psi will do.

You aren't constrained to a single nozzle. Use as many as you need,
primarily trailing the work (except the one _actually_ cooling the bit).

You just have to shield the work area so the coolant stays in the work
area.

If you need to suck the stuff up, consider a venturi vacuum, ported back
to the coolant tank (on the work side of the filter sock GGG!

There's a reason that CNC centers are often fully-enclosed G.

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

i

FWIW, I just use an air blast and mist coolant. Flood is nice but a total
mess if you don't have a full enclosure.

http://www.machinistblog.com/zero-fog-mister/

On 2010-07-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

My R2E4 has a large coolant tank/catch basin that slides around the base
of the machine. The pump will produce about 30psi at 3gpm. That'll work
two or three 3/8" or 1/4" nozzles just fine.

The "hard stream" is what moves the chips. Not by "pressure", per se,
but by the inertia of the solid stream of fluid. A 3/8" solid stream
moving at (say) 30fps will push a big dimple into the heel of your hand.
Think about what it will do encountering loose chips of all ilk. Even if
they aren't "blasted" from the pocket, the pocket will alternately flood
and be blown out, and constantly re-circulated by both the coolant stream
and the motion of the bit, removing most of the metal on each cycle.

At the injection molder where I worked for a few months, the guy had a
small CNC mill (like 12x8 throws) for pocketing new molds. He had one
1/4" flexi-nozzle (snap-bead style) blasting right at the tool tip, and
it gave elegant finishes. So I suspect chip removal was adequate.

LLoyd

Your R2E4 is not fully enclosed, right? How badly does the coolant
splash around? How much of a mess?

On 2010-07-29, Karl Townsend wrote:

"Ignoramus6705" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

You'd be amazed at what a lamilar stream of coolant at 15-20psi will do.

You aren't constrained to a single nozzle. Use as many as you need,
primarily trailing the work (except the one _actually_ cooling the bit).

You just have to shield the work area so the coolant stays in the work
area.

If you need to suck the stuff up, consider a venturi vacuum, ported back
to the coolant tank (on the work side of the filter sock GGG!

There's a reason that CNC centers are often fully-enclosed G.

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

i

FWIW, I just use an air blast and mist coolant. Flood is nice but a total
mess if you don't have a full enclosure.

http://www.machinistblog.com/zero-fog-mister/



A mister was included with the mill. It is supposed to use vegetable
oil only. I have not yet started figuring it out.

i

Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

Your R2E4 is not fully enclosed, right? How badly does the coolant
splash around? How much of a mess?


heh! EVERYWHERE! And the mist is actually worse.

There will be an enclosure... gotta figure out the geometries to get it to
keep fluid in, but let the quill get to the work.

LLoyd

Ignoramus6705 wrote:

On 2010-07-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus6705 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

My R2E4 has a large coolant tank/catch basin that slides around the base
of the machine. The pump will produce about 30psi at 3gpm. That'll work
two or three 3/8" or 1/4" nozzles just fine.

The "hard stream" is what moves the chips. Not by "pressure", per se,
but by the inertia of the solid stream of fluid. A 3/8" solid stream
moving at (say) 30fps will push a big dimple into the heel of your hand.
Think about what it will do encountering loose chips of all ilk. Even if
they aren't "blasted" from the pocket, the pocket will alternately flood
and be blown out, and constantly re-circulated by both the coolant stream
and the motion of the bit, removing most of the metal on each cycle.

At the injection molder where I worked for a few months, the guy had a
small CNC mill (like 12x8 throws) for pocketing new molds. He had one
1/4" flexi-nozzle (snap-bead style) blasting right at the tool tip, and
it gave elegant finishes. So I suspect chip removal was adequate.

LLoyd

Your R2E4 is not fully enclosed, right? How badly does the coolant
splash around? How much of a mess?

It's going to depend on the cutter, coolant nozzle aiming, coolant
pressure, shape of the part, and probably phase of the moon. Best case
it's a nice gentle flow back to the sump, worst case it's a coolant
bomb.

Compressed air alone works well without the mess of coolant.
Steve

"Ignoramus6705" wrote in message ...
With this Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I find myself doing things
that I have never done before, like milling deep pockets. So I have
new challenges. The current one is chip clearance. Say, I mill a deep
pocket. How do I get the chips out of there? On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

With wax and such, I use a Shop-Vac. I am not sure if it would work
with steel as well, or even aluminum, due to greater density of
chips.

i

Iggy sez:

On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

Ig, I'm thinking of putting down a piece of seamless flooring where the
mill sits, and just hanging heavy vinyl curtains around the work area. I
don't feel the personal need to watch every cut a mill makes. As long as
the curtains were transparent enough to let me see that no really large
components had fallen off the mill, that would be good enough.

LLoyd

On 2010-07-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Iggy sez:

On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

Ig, I'm thinking of putting down a piece of seamless flooring where the
mill sits, and just hanging heavy vinyl curtains around the work area. I
don't feel the personal need to watch every cut a mill makes. As long as
the curtains were transparent enough to let me see that no really large
components had fallen off the mill, that would be good enough.

I will try to make a lexan enclosure, I think that it will go a long
way.

i

Ignoramus6705 wrote:
With this Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I find myself doing things
that I have never done before, like milling deep pockets. So I have
new challenges. The current one is chip clearance. Say, I mill a deep
pocket. How do I get the chips out of there? On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

With wax and such, I use a Shop-Vac. I am not sure if it would work
with steel as well, or even aluminum, due to greater density of
chips.

I haven't done deep pockets in a while, but did have to do some, once.
After a lot of screwing around, I found the best way was to drill 1/2"
holes just leaving a small bit of metal between each hole, removing as
much metal from the volume as possible. Then, I used a 3/4" end mill,
and bored straight down over each hole, making lots of noise but
clearing out most of the remaining scraps.

Flood coolant is sure a solution, air also will work. I'm not so sure
vacuum will do a whole lot, especially on steel, but it will remove
some, using the crevice tool to concentrate the flow. A horizontal mill
is often used in such situations, the chips clear out better in that
position.

Jon

Ignoramus6705 wrote:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

Yucch! Bleah! What a hideous idea that was!
I have a 3 gallon rectangular tank sitting next to my mill. Everything
is out in the open, making it easy to work on. I have a Plexiglas piece
over the tank to stop evaporation. I only clean this once every couple
years, but sure appreciate I can disconnect a couple hoses and carry it
to the sink.

Jon

Ignoramus6705 wrote:


Your R2E4 is not fully enclosed, right? How badly does the coolant
splash around? How much of a mess?

It depends on surface speed of the cutter. I have a throttling valve
where the hose connects to the LocLine.
I can set the flow so it jets where I want it, without climbing the
cutter up to the spindle. If you set it right, you need no guard at
all, and I often with this way. Especially with 1/8" solid carbide
cutters at 2800 RPM (Yeah, I know I'm running them too slow, but that is
the max speed without over-revving the motor on this 1J machine) there
is no splashing at all. When I recently used a 3" slitting saw, I put
the guards on, my setup only takes about 2 minutes to install.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Ignoramus6705 wrote:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

Yucch! Bleah! What a hideous idea that was!
I have a 3 gallon rectangular tank sitting next to my mill. Everything
is out in the open, making it easy to work on. I have a Plexiglas piece
over the tank to stop evaporation. I only clean this once every couple
years, but sure appreciate I can disconnect a couple hoses and carry it
to the sink.

Jon

If he does indeed have the pump in there, he can always relocate it to
an external tank for ease of maintenance.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Jon Elson wrote:

Ignoramus6705 wrote:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

Yucch! Bleah! What a hideous idea that was!
I have a 3 gallon rectangular tank sitting next to my mill. Everything
is out in the open, making it easy to work on. I have a Plexiglas piece
over the tank to stop evaporation. I only clean this once every couple
years, but sure appreciate I can disconnect a couple hoses and carry it
to the sink.

Jon

Carry it to the *sink*?? What do you do with it when you get it to the sink?

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-07-29, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Jon Elson wrote:

Ignoramus6705 wrote:

Lloyd, so how does it work, the coolant blasts away the chips or just
carries them with a flow? I guess I should try. I need to look into
the pedestal of my mill, there is supposed to be a cooant pump and
reservoir.

Yucch! Bleah! What a hideous idea that was!
I have a 3 gallon rectangular tank sitting next to my mill. Everything
is out in the open, making it easy to work on. I have a Plexiglas piece
over the tank to stop evaporation. I only clean this once every couple
years, but sure appreciate I can disconnect a couple hoses and carry it
to the sink.

Jon

Carry it to the *sink*?? What do you do with it when you get it to the sink?


He uses the sink to transfer the liquid to a EPA approved
transportation container and then calls a EPA approved waste hauler to
transfer the used coolant to a EPA approved recycling facility.

i

On 7/29/2010 12:57 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Compressed air alone works well without the mess of coolant.
Steve


and a fine mist of oil every so often when cutting aluminum will keep
the chips from 'welding' on..

Ed Huntress wrote:

Carry it to the *sink*?? What do you do with it when you get it to the sink?

Dump the crap out, wash it out with hot water, then refill, add
concentrate and put back on the mill. There was a period from 2002-2006
or so when I rarely used the mill, just everything was real slow, and I
used oil and no coolant. The tank dried out and had all sorts of gunk
in it. When I started using coolant again, I had to scrub the sump out.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news
Ed Huntress wrote:

Carry it to the *sink*?? What do you do with it when you get it to the
sink?

Dump the crap out, wash it out with hot water, then refill, add
concentrate and put back on the mill. There was a period from 2002-2006
or so when I rarely used the mill, just everything was real slow, and I
used oil and no coolant. The tank dried out and had all sorts of gunk in
it. When I started using coolant again, I had to scrub the sump out.

Jon

It's a good thing you weren't caught. g In my area, we have free disposal
of hazardous waste in small quantities like that. It's better than having it
wind up in the waste processing system. And it's a whole lot better than
getting caught dumping it in the sewer.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-07-29, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news
Ed Huntress wrote:

Carry it to the *sink*?? What do you do with it when you get it to the
sink?

Dump the crap out, wash it out with hot water, then refill, add
concentrate and put back on the mill. There was a period from 2002-2006
or so when I rarely used the mill, just everything was real slow, and I
used oil and no coolant. The tank dried out and had all sorts of gunk in
it. When I started using coolant again, I had to scrub the sump out.

Jon

It's a good thing you weren't caught. g In my area, we have free disposal
of hazardous waste in small quantities like that. It's better than having it
wind up in the waste processing system. And it's a whole lot better than
getting caught dumping it in the sewer.


Not industrial stuff. I could barely convince them to take hydraulic
oil.

i

Jon Elson wrote in
:

Ignoramus6705 wrote:
With this Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I find myself doing things
that I have never done before, like milling deep pockets. So I have
new challenges. The current one is chip clearance. Say, I mill a deep
pocket. How do I get the chips out of there? On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

With wax and such, I use a Shop-Vac. I am not sure if it would work
with steel as well, or even aluminum, due to greater density of
chips.

I haven't done deep pockets in a while, but did have to do some, once.
After a lot of screwing around, I found the best way was to drill 1/2"
holes just leaving a small bit of metal between each hole, removing as
much metal from the volume as possible. Then, I used a 3/4" end mill,
and bored straight down over each hole, making lots of noise but
clearing out most of the remaining scraps.

Flood coolant is sure a solution, air also will work. I'm not so sure
vacuum will do a whole lot, especially on steel, but it will remove
some, using the crevice tool to concentrate the flow. A horizontal
mill
is often used in such situations, the chips clear out better in that
position.

A Shop Vac with a small nozzle will suck up aluminum chips just fine
unless you are dealing with a very deep hole. Unlike compressed air,
there is little cleanup when you are done.

Doug White

"Ignoramus5687" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-29, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news
Ed Huntress wrote:

Carry it to the *sink*?? What do you do with it when you get it to the
sink?

Dump the crap out, wash it out with hot water, then refill, add
concentrate and put back on the mill. There was a period from 2002-2006
or so when I rarely used the mill, just everything was real slow, and I
used oil and no coolant. The tank dried out and had all sorts of gunk
in
it. When I started using coolant again, I had to scrub the sump out.

Jon

It's a good thing you weren't caught. g In my area, we have free
disposal
of hazardous waste in small quantities like that. It's better than having
it
wind up in the waste processing system. And it's a whole lot better than
getting caught dumping it in the sewer.


Not industrial stuff. I could barely convince them to take hydraulic
oil.

i

Well, that's the Chicago area. You could use most of the Chicago River for
hydraulic oil. d8-)

Seriously, tell them it's 2-stroke motor oil. They'll never know. That is,
if you have less than 10 gallons of the stuff.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-07-29, Doug White wrote:
Jon Elson wrote in
:

Ignoramus6705 wrote:
With this Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I find myself doing things
that I have never done before, like milling deep pockets. So I have

[ ... ]

A Shop Vac with a small nozzle will suck up aluminum chips just fine
unless you are dealing with a very deep hole. Unlike compressed air,
there is little cleanup when you are done.

And -- you can have a small nozzle for compressed air which will
blow towards a larger intake of a shopvac so most of it gets swallowed --
even with a deeper pocket.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jul 29, 10:14*am, Ignoramus6705
wrote:
With this Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I find myself doing things
that I have never done before, like milling deep pockets. So I have
new challenges. The current one is chip clearance. Say, I mill a deep
pocket. How do I get the chips out of there? On production VMCs, they
blast a stream of coolant into the work area at 200 PSI, and that sure
takes care of chip removal. But what can a poor fellow like me do?

With wax and such, I use a Shop-Vac. I am not sure if it would work
with steel as well, or even aluminum, due to greater density of
chips.

i

I did some pocket milling at school as part of my metalworking course
- (a G-clamp from a block of steel) the shop vac worked fine on
everything, particularly if you were standing there anyway to drip
coolant (cause flood coolant is a real bitch to clean up)
Usually, a 1 inch Good Condition paintbrush was more than adequate to
clear chips at the end of each pass, all that was needed in most
cases...also using compressed air to clean anything (except completed
jobs in a separate area well clear of the machines) was grounds for
being booted out of the class instantly - you have no idea where the
swarf is going to wind up, and like the legendary "Lost Screw" it will
find its way into something that will go into destruct mode and you
incur the fearsome wrath of your teacher....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Ed Huntress wrote:
It's a good thing you weren't caught. g In my area, we have free disposal
of hazardous waste in small quantities like that. It's better than having it
wind up in the waste processing system. And it's a whole lot better than
getting caught dumping it in the sewer.

I'm a home shop, not a major industrial waste producer. I did scoop out
most of the muck, but I had to scrub the tank clean.

I'm pretty sure in my area this is still legal.

Yeah, in some places it probably is illegal to wash your hands in the
sink after doing an oil change on your car.

At work, we've been pretty much told that NOTHING can be dumped down the
drains or thrown in the trash.
After cleaning parts with solvent and paper towels, I throw the paper
towels in a hazmat drum, and I worry when it gets
full we'll have to pay $1000 to have paper towels properly disposed of.
I put all my electronic scrap (solder blobs,
wire clippings, etc.) in a waste container and will have to have that
disposed of, too.

Jon