I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

On Jun 29, 7:14*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get *too expensive but allows running device at different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

How about a line shaft down the center of the trailer with the engine
and loads at the corners? They could be on hinged tensioning platforms
so you can disconnect the unused ones and hang their belts on hooks,
off the rotating shaft. That costs you the shaft, bearings and a
pulley, maybe $100, and a rigid frame to support a pillow block at
each pulley, but lets each drive be permanent and independent.

I think I would use four-bolt flanged blocks that attach to open-
topped U frames so you can lift the shaft out to replace the belts.
http://southernbulk.com/store/images...ll-Bearing.jpg
http://www.robotcombat.com/products/..._shafts_lg.jpg
It's easy to mill steps in the key if the shaft and pulley slots are
different.
After you align the shaft you could attach guide blocks under the end
bearings so the shaft just drops into place the next time.

jsw

On 2010-06-29, Karl Townsend wrote:
I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Can you make the pump and compresor electrical, and run them off the generator?

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power
pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit
Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed.
The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift
up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it
to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator,
and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at
different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal
up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running.
I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power
pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit
Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed.
The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift
up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.

I don't want to stifle any creativity here. But, my plan is to treat each of
the power consuming units like a mold in a molding press. they will all be
mounted to a plate say 18" by 24". The plate drops in a pocket and you
impact wench on four bolts. The large plate with the pocket has the engine
permanently mounted and is on a small skid. My real quandary at this point
is the best way to attach the rotating power. I'm leaning to two of the
roller chain couplings and a short shaft between engine and unit.

But, I do know this group can com up with great ideas I hadn't considered.

Karl

On Jun 29, 8:41*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message

ster.com...





Karl Townsend wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it
to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator,
and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get *too expensive but allows running device at
different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal
up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running.
I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power
pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit
Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed..
The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift
up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.

I don't want to stifle any creativity here. But, my plan is to treat each of
the power consuming units like a mold in a molding press. *they will all be
mounted to a plate say 18" by 24". The plate drops in a pocket and you
impact wench on four bolts. The large plate with the pocket has the engine
permanently mounted and is on a small skid. My real quandary at this point
is the best way to attach the rotating power. I'm leaning to two of the
roller chain couplings and a short shaft between engine and unit.

But, I do know this group can com up with great ideas I hadn't considered..

Karl

Do all the units need to turn the same direction to operate?

Paul

On Jun 29, 11:41*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message

ster.com...







Karl Townsend wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it
to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator,
and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get *too expensive but allows running device at
different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal
up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running.
I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power
pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit
Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed..
The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift
up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.

I don't want to stifle any creativity here. But, my plan is to treat each of
the power consuming units like a mold in a molding press. *they will all be
mounted to a plate say 18" by 24". The plate drops in a pocket and you
impact wench on four bolts. The large plate with the pocket has the engine
permanently mounted and is on a small skid. My real quandary at this point
is the best way to attach the rotating power. I'm leaning to two of the
roller chain couplings and a short shaft between engine and unit.

But, I do know this group can com up with great ideas I hadn't considered..

Karl

So all the loads turn in the same direction at about the same speed.
My lineshaft suggestion allowed either direction and speed changes,
with belt or chain drive.

If the plate slides instead of drops into the pocket, Lovejoy couplers
should work OK. I think you can align them with plates like lathe
faceplates, one on the engine and the other on the loads with adapter
bushings. You jack and shim up the loads until the edges align with a
small even gap all the way around.

jsw

Karl Townsend wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it
to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator,
and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at
different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal
up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running.
I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power
pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit
Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed.
The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift
up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.

I don't want to stifle any creativity here. But, my plan is to treat each of
the power consuming units like a mold in a molding press. they will all be
mounted to a plate say 18" by 24". The plate drops in a pocket and you
impact wench on four bolts. The large plate with the pocket has the engine
permanently mounted and is on a small skid. My real quandary at this point
is the best way to attach the rotating power. I'm leaning to two of the
roller chain couplings and a short shaft between engine and unit.

But, I do know this group can com up with great ideas I hadn't considered.

Karl

You're reinventing the wheel. Just make the generator, pump, compressor,
etc. Cat 1 3 point hitch attachments. Make your power unit with a Cat 1
3 point hitch type output. All the components are readily available and
inexpensive, Cat 1 pins, 1-3/8 6 spline shafts, couplings, overrun
clutches, etc. You power skid is just fine, but use a standard output
method so it is flexible. You power skid can power any Cat 1 3pt
implement, and your generator, pump and compressor can readily be
powered by any Cat 1 tractor.

So all the loads turn in the same direction at about the same speed.
My lineshaft suggestion allowed either direction and speed changes,
with belt or chain drive.

If the plate slides instead of drops into the pocket, Lovejoy couplers
should work OK. I think you can align them with plates like lathe
faceplates, one on the engine and the other on the loads with adapter
bushings. You jack and shim up the loads until the edges align with a
small even gap all the way around.

jsw

I can't have everything on one pallet, it gets too big to haul around
easily.

I like lovejoy idea. I didn't know they made them for 10+ horsepower. I'll
look.

Karl

You're reinventing the wheel. Just make the generator, pump, compressor,
etc. Cat 1 3 point hitch attachments. Make your power unit with a Cat 1
3 point hitch type output. All the components are readily available and
inexpensive, Cat 1 pins, 1-3/8 6 spline shafts, couplings, overrun
clutches, etc. You power skid is just fine, but use a standard output
method so it is flexible. You power skid can power any Cat 1 3pt
implement, and your generator, pump and compressor can readily be
powered by any Cat 1 tractor.

probably a good idea but I can make it smaller and more portable with the
mold plate type concept. tractors are the wrong RPM so there's no need to
fit a three point.

Karl

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:23:24 -0500, Ignoramus28517
wrote:

On 2010-06-29, Karl Townsend wrote:
I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Can you make the pump and compresor electrical, and run them off the generator?


Or make the engine drive a hydraulic pump, and put hydraulic motors on
each driven device. I suspect that they each want different speeds.
It would also give you a "fourth" device, so to speak, that might have
some other good applications from time to time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

On Jun 29, 1:11*pm, Brian Lawson wrote:
...
Or make the engine drive a hydraulic pump, and put hydraulic motors on
each driven device. *I suspect that they each want different speeds.
It would also give you a "fourth" device, so to speak, that might have
some other good applications from time to time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

You must have an exceptionally good source for free hydraulic parts.
Have you priced even a short replacement hose?

jsw

Karl Townsend wrote:

You're reinventing the wheel. Just make the generator, pump, compressor,
etc. Cat 1 3 point hitch attachments. Make your power unit with a Cat 1
3 point hitch type output. All the components are readily available and
inexpensive, Cat 1 pins, 1-3/8 6 spline shafts, couplings, overrun
clutches, etc. You power skid is just fine, but use a standard output
method so it is flexible. You power skid can power any Cat 1 3pt
implement, and your generator, pump and compressor can readily be
powered by any Cat 1 tractor.

probably a good idea but I can make it smaller and more portable with the
mold plate type concept. tractors are the wrong RPM so there's no need to
fit a three point.

Karl

The Cat 1 3pt will add about 18" to the length, pretty negligible. As
for the RPM, my Cat 1 tractor (Kubota B7100DT) has 540, 1000 and 1500
RPM PTO speeds.

Karl Townsend wrote:

So all the loads turn in the same direction at about the same speed.
My lineshaft suggestion allowed either direction and speed changes,
with belt or chain drive.

If the plate slides instead of drops into the pocket, Lovejoy couplers
should work OK. I think you can align them with plates like lathe
faceplates, one on the engine and the other on the loads with adapter
bushings. You jack and shim up the loads until the edges align with a
small even gap all the way around.

jsw

I can't have everything on one pallet, it gets too big to haul around
easily.

I like lovejoy idea. I didn't know they made them for 10+ horsepower. I'll
look.

I have a ~50HP, 25KW diesel genset that uses the lovejoy style coupling.

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 29, 1:11*pm, Brian Lawson wrote:
...
Or make the engine drive a hydraulic pump, and put hydraulic motors on
each driven device. *I suspect that they each want different speeds.
It would also give you a "fourth" device, so to speak, that might have
some other good applications from time to time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

You must have an exceptionally good source for free hydraulic parts.
Have you priced even a short replacement hose?

I get hoses from Northern and Surplus Center. Very cheap. Typical
offerings
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...3952_200383952
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic

Same with pumps so long as you can adapt your needs to the best value
offered.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic

Not that I think that hydraulic is the way to go here.

Wayne

Karl Townsend wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it
to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator,
and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at
different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal
up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running.
I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power
pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit
Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed.
The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift
up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.


I don't want to stifle any creativity here. But, my plan is to treat each of
the power consuming units like a mold in a molding press. they will all be
mounted to a plate say 18" by 24". The plate drops in a pocket and you
impact wench on four bolts. The large plate with the pocket has the engine
permanently mounted and is on a small skid. My real quandary at this point
is the best way to attach the rotating power. I'm leaning to two of the
roller chain couplings and a short shaft between engine and unit.

But, I do know this group can com up with great ideas I hadn't considered.

Karl



Could you make use of automotive IRS halfshafts?. IIRC some cars, BMW
springs to mind, use a Lobro joint either end fixed with 6 bolts and
would provide some plunge and cope with angular mis-alignment no
problem, and are constant velocity. Some models, at least older ones
have quite short shafts as they have drum handbrakes and the shafts are
maybe 14" long IIRC, 300 series?. For quick connection maybe you would
have to come up with something .

Last time I saw a roller chain coupling it was on a tractor pull unit in
the UK. IIRC one V12 Jag engine in the centre and eight straight 6
Jaguar engines around that, 2 at each corner coupled end to end with a
roller chain coupling, impressive but pedestrian compared to a RR
Griffon engined tractor unit that ran later.

"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.


I'm for hooking up the generator and then putting motors on your two other loads.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 29, 1:11*pm, Brian Lawson wrote:
...
Or make the engine drive a hydraulic pump, and put hydraulic motors on
each driven device. *I suspect that they each want different speeds.
It would also give you a "fourth" device, so to speak, that might have
some other good applications from time to time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

You must have an exceptionally good source for free hydraulic parts.
Have you priced even a short replacement hose?

jsw


Princess Auto. And lots of stuff is available if you hit the right
auction.

How many "hoses" did you figure? I thought just two, and a pair of
QuickConnects on each motor.

Brian

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:14:20 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to
power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a
forktruck to move it around.

I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each
unit? This could get too expensive but allows running device at different
speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between
units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow
about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO
shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?

"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up
to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I
just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.

Karl


Check your rotation on all components. I suspect at least your engine
and air compressor both turn CCW. Therefore you can't join them face
to face.

fired this volley in
:

Check your rotation on all components. I suspect at least your engine
and air compressor both turn CCW. Therefore you can't join them face
to face.


Hydraulics would do it with a simple reversal of the lines.

LLoyd