On 2010-06-11, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:45:20 -0500
Ignoramus10537 wrote:

On 2010-06-11, Leon Fisk wrote:
snip

Several other works by Jules Verne had bum translations
too.I've been watching for some of his other titles to
turn up at used book sales, but so far have only found a
newer version of Leagues. The old versions are easy to
find. Eventually I'll find some, always do, just have to
be patient...

Well, I read it in Russian.

Hmm... I wonder if it was translated from the original French (good) or
they used the bum English version. Here is what the Wiki had to say
about this:

I am sure that it was a direct translkation.

i

===
The novel was first translated into English in 1873 by Reverend Lewis
Page Mercier (aka "Mercier Lewis"). Mercier, under orders from British
censors and performed or dictated by his editors at Sampson Low, cut
nearly a quarter of Verne's original text and made hundreds of
translation errors, sometimes dramatically changing the meaning of
Verne's original intent. Some of these bowdlerizations may have been
done for political reasons, such as Nemo's identity and the nationality
of the two warships he sinks, or the portraits of freedom fighters on
the wall of his cabin which originally included Daniel O'Connell.[4]
Nonetheless it became the "standard" English translation for more than
a hundred years, while other translations continued to draw from it ???
and its mistakes, especially the mistranslation of the title; the
French title actually means Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Seas.

A modern translation was produced in 1966 by Walter James Miller and
published by Washington Square Press.[5] Many of Mercier's changes were
addressed in the translator's preface, and most of Verne's text was
restored.

Many of the "sins" of Mercier were again corrected in a
from-the-ground-up re-examination of the sources and an entirely new
translation by Walter James Miller and Frederick Paul Walter between
1989 and 1991, published in 1993 by Naval Institute Press in a
"completely restored and annotated edition."[6] But, it has a new
error: in it the French word scaphandrier, which in this book means one
of Captain Nemo's divers in kit similar to an old-type heavy standard
diving suit but with an independent air supply, is everywhere wrongly
translated "frogman". F. P. Walter's own translation was published in
2009 with the title Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Seas (ISBN
978-1-904808-28-2)
===

You get the impression that other translations were based on the old
English text. You may have read a really screwed up version. A
translation of a translation. It would be interesting to
know, but I don't do Russian very well, only Babel-fish type stuff. I
know you are a bit busy right now with your Bridgeport project

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
my library" by a 65 year old librarian.


So how did you get rid of the old hag?


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
my library" by a 65 year old librarian.


So how did you get rid of the old hag?


I didn't. I started a ham radio club, instead. I was the only one
in the club without a ticket, but I was the best tech there. I got our
school newspaper to write a small article about the club, and to ask for
donations of unwanted electronics. I repaired about half of it with
salvaged parts, and we sold it to raise money to equip the station. I
had about 20 left over repaired TVs when we finished, so the club
donated them to the school.

The next year I was a teacher's aid for the Electronics one course,
and my senior year I taught an evening small appliance repair course to
adults.

BTW, years later I had that school system under contract for all
their electronic repairs, and most of the donated TVs were still in use.



--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:51:59 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
wrote:

My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.

I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.

My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
already a big help.

My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
equivalent of that for English.

I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
matters.

i

Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.

SciFi is a good starter for kids. Lots of younger SciFi out there.
Early Heinlein is a Great starter for kids.

I was hummm 6-8, couldnt read a word, had no use for it. Then Mom
brought home a Tom Swift book from the library. By the time the summer
was over..Id read the entire set, was up to 7th grade reading level.
This was when I was just into kindergarden /1st grade somewhere about
that age. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was reading at
graduate/college level.

And Ive been a book junkie ever since. When I went into the military in
71..I took a refridg shipping box..fullsized upright kitchen fridge,
filled with books to the library and donated them before shipping out.
A ton of Ace doubles etc etc..nearly all SciFi

Gunner, with about 6000 here at the homestead


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 15:17:16 -0500, Ignoramus967
wrote:

On 2010-06-09, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

English, as taught in school, IMHO is not an easy subject to get a
_very_ high mark in. The kid has to put forth a lot of effort to
figure out what the teacher wants to hear and to echo it, and even
then... I'm assuming it's dealing with interpreting novels and that
sort of thing. Actual use of language is improved by talking with
articulate adults and reading most anything at a reasonably high
level, but I doubt that's his limitation (I wouldn't call it a problem
with 92%). Girls of that age seem to do a lot better than boys. Math
and science have a lot less of that BS.


I am pretty sure that the scores we are discussing involve
standardized, multiple choice tests, so teacher's preferences are not
as importaant as, say, grading homework.

Being able to present people with what they want to hear (even if
you personally disagree) is a useful skill, provided you know when
to turn it off. I would suggest if any tutoring it should involve
examsmanship-- carefully making sure that the student notes down all
the hints that the teacher gives, and covers every point. Have a
look at his tests, he may be losing marks for things that can be
very easily improved (neatness or something like that).

I will try to learn this a little more, maybe I can get a copy of his
test.


I should ask at this point..one assumes you are ALSO teaching him
Russian, or Ukrainian or whatever your native language is?

If not..best get at it. Kids that can speak more than one language go
rather far.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


axolotl wrote:

On 6/10/2010 4:44 PM, Ignoramus28478 wrote:
On 2010-06-10, wrote:
On 6/9/2010 6:14 PM, Ignoramus967 wrote:

I love both suggestions. I think that he may have read some hardy boys
books (secrets of the old mill comes to mind, at first I thought it
was related to milling machines). I will explore this hardy book
question today.

Ig,

You want the old editions of these books, published in the 40's and
50's. The series has been rewritten to make them more PC and less
interesting. A good excuse to visit the used book store.

I was fully unaware (I bought books 1-6). What has changed?

i

Plotlines, dialog, pretty much everything. My son read the HB books I
had as a kid. The school had a (required) summer reading program with a
list of books. After I complained the the selection of books was slanted
towards the tastes of little girls, the Hardy Boys books were added. Son
took the multiple choice test on a Hardy Boys book. Flunked. Same title,
different book.
For instance, I can remember that in "The Shore Road Mystery" Frank
Hardy gets his revolver and hides in the trunk of a car to catch car
thieves. I don't believe that would pass the current children's
literature editorial gate. The old books simply have better writing.

Don't neglect to take your kids to shows as they get older. What is dry
and boring in the classroom is funny and fascinating on stage. With both
of mine, I let them know that the school wouldn't let them read the
"good parts" of Shakespeare, and "let" them read the scene in All's Well
where Parolles is trying to talk Helena out of her virginity ("That,
once lost is won ten times over!").

If you make a trip out east, I'll point you to the Old Mill.
Unfortunately, it's been trashed by someone making a suburban home from it.


I loved the 'Space opera' genera. EE 'Doc' Smith and his 'Lensman'
series. Robert Heinlein's 'The Moon Is a harsh Mistress' about survival
on Mars during a political upheaval. There were hundreds of others. I
read everything on that subject, along with military history, hard
science and electronics my school's various libraries.

I volunteered in the library while in Junior High to get first chance
at new books, and hard to get books. I also repaired a lot of book
bindings, and used a wood burner and heat transfer foil to label new
books. I typed new cards for the card files, and maintained them. It
got me out of home room to open the library every morning, as well as
study hall.

When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
my library" by a 65 year old librarian.


This may be of interest..and might point out some titles that can be
downloaded here and there, for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Science_Fiction

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 23:55:56 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:45:38 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ignoramus967 wrote:
My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.

I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.

My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
already a big help.

My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
equivalent of that for English.

I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
matters.

i

My first try hasn't shown up yet, so I'll try again.
It said...


"To teach is to learn".

Have him teach you.
Not that there is anything wrong with your command of the language, ig.
But it is a good tactic.

Someone mentioned diagramming sentences.
That would be an excellent place to start.

I think that's a horrible place to start!
Let that formality and discipline happen at school if it happens at
all.

There is much more to language than structure and rules. Language is
about communication. The best way to learn language is to be exposed
to many good examples of that language well used. It is more likely
to "connect" if reading well-written material becomes an enjoyable way
to spend liesure time. I define "well-written" here as material
that communicates effectively, engages the reader. Most novels are
fraught with grammatical violations. These violations are not usually
accidental; editors are very good at catching grammatial gaffes. They
are used for emphasis or effect or to be colloquial. Davy Crockett
probably said "ain't" now and then, and (horrors) may have even
regarded prepositions as acceptable words to end sentences with...


And then there was Mark Twains view of English.....

G

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:23:31 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 10, 3:20*am, Steve Ackman
wrote:
...
* A better example might be the German rooted
Minnesotan expressions along the lines of, "You coming
with?"

Du kommst mit?

I didn't really understand the subtleties of the subjunctive and verb
tenses like the perfective until I studied Latin and then German,
which retain grammatical structures that have been simplified but not
completely lost in English. Have you taught him any ??????? ?????

jsw


I grew up speaking Yooper, and English as da secon speakin.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R18MQYI3NJ8YWF

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Jun 10, 4:49*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jun 9, 11:29 am, Jim Stewart wrote:



Ignoramus967 wrote:
My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.

I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.

I don't think you should do a thing about it. Your
son could be a great writer and still be marked down
for whatever the test creator decided was not above
average for his group. I remember coaching my daughter
on an writing assignment in 4th grade. She came up
with a delightful sentence or two and I remarked that
Steinbeck could not have said it better. The teacher
'corrected' the sentence to a more bland form.

We need people that carry over part of their ethic
style. Look what Joseph Conrad did. An incredible
novelist who didn't speak fluent English until he was
in his twenties.

Just my humble opinion...
At my high school you failed the grammar part of an english test if
you used one coma splice. I've had no regard for english teachers and
their tests since then.

You're being vindicated. The 15th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style has
dropped it's prohibition against comma splices. The other stylebooks will
eventually catch up.

It's about time, since many top fiction writers have been using it for a
half-century. The semicolon is in trouble now. g

--
Ed Huntress

Finally they did something right.

On Jun 12, 1:34*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
...

* *I didn't. *I started a ham radio club, instead. *I was the only one
in the club without a ticket, but I was the best tech there. *...

How did you learn it?

I tried to learn electronics in high school and found the available
resources very limited, even though the physics teacher lived a few
houses away and let me browse his library. I didn't know any ham
operators then.

My father was also self-taught and had missed electrical training, he
never did learn how to connect a three-way wall switch and I had to do
it every single time.

jsw

On Jun 11, 4:57*pm, Leon Fisk wrote:
...
...But, it has a new
error: in it the French word scaphandrier, which in this book means one
of Captain Nemo's divers in kit similar to an old-type heavy standard
diving suit but with an independent air supply, is everywhere wrongly
translated "frogman"....
--
Leon Fisk

Benoît Rouquayrol had just invented the diving regulator apparatus
when Verne wrote the book.
http://www.philippe.tailliez.net/article27.html
http://www.espalion-12.com/scaphandr...erers.htm#inv5

I don't think the autonomous "heavy feet" diving suit or a widely
known translation of the term made it to England. The engraving shows
the regulator fed by an air line from the surface

IIRC from a source I can't find now, it took a long time to develop
satisfactory high pressure tanks and a regulator that opened easily
and didn't freeze up. The French article mentions a 15 minute supply
at 20 meters, the poorly translated one half an hour at 10.

jsw

On 2010-06-12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 15:17:16 -0500, Ignoramus967
wrote:

On 2010-06-09, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

English, as taught in school, IMHO is not an easy subject to get a
_very_ high mark in. The kid has to put forth a lot of effort to
figure out what the teacher wants to hear and to echo it, and even
then... I'm assuming it's dealing with interpreting novels and that
sort of thing. Actual use of language is improved by talking with
articulate adults and reading most anything at a reasonably high
level, but I doubt that's his limitation (I wouldn't call it a problem
with 92%). Girls of that age seem to do a lot better than boys. Math
and science have a lot less of that BS.


I am pretty sure that the scores we are discussing involve
standardized, multiple choice tests, so teacher's preferences are not
as importaant as, say, grading homework.

Being able to present people with what they want to hear (even if
you personally disagree) is a useful skill, provided you know when
to turn it off. I would suggest if any tutoring it should involve
examsmanship-- carefully making sure that the student notes down all
the hints that the teacher gives, and covers every point. Have a
look at his tests, he may be losing marks for things that can be
very easily improved (neatness or something like that).

I will try to learn this a little more, maybe I can get a copy of his
test.


I should ask at this point..one assumes you are ALSO teaching him
Russian, or Ukrainian or whatever your native language is?

If not..best get at it. Kids that can speak more than one language go
rather far.

Yes, we are teaching him Russian too. Thanks Gunner.

i

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
wrote:

My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.

I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.

My question is how do we improve his English,
snip
=========
Lots of good responses, but some items to consider.

(1) He is 9 years old and is the top decile [92%]. Most
likely he can't sing grand opera, nor run in hundred yard
dash is less than 10 seconds either. Rather than worry
about his "low" English scores, be glad of what you got.

(2) What is the significance of the 92% in English. Without
knowing the distribution of the other grades and what the
92% represents, it is difficult to reach any conclusion.
For all anyone knows 92% may have been the high grade in the
class or the school. Even if this 92% was on some sort of
standardized statewide test, the significance of 99% vs 92%
is unknown, other "than bragging rights."

(3) Why the concern about "academic trivial pursuit?" To be
sure a good command of written and spoken English [or other
majority/dominent language] is an asset, but when we examine
the pros/money players, i.e. public speakers, actors,
politicians, successful writers, etc. there are very few
English majors among them. Education should be a
preparation for life, not preparation for more education
unless the goal is to be a tenured professor teaching
English at university.

(4) Given his apparent knack for language, it may well be
far more useful for him as an adult to speak several
languages well [but not perfectly, what ever that means].
Thus an additional language, such as Spanish, may be far
more useful to him as an adult than "perfect" English.

(5) Recent research indicates that other skills such as
"social IQ" are just as if not more important than high
math/language skills for "success" in adult life. How is he
doing in the other areas, e.g. science, history,
interpersonal relationships?
http://blogs.bnet.com/business-books/?p=293
http://www.educationfutures.org/Social_IQ.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intelligence
http://www.addvance.com/help/parents/social_skills.html
http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Your-Chi.../dp/0966036689

Given his progress to date, it appears that whatever you are
doing is working. Good luck and let the group know what you
discover (and remember he is 9).


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Jun 12, 1:34 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
...

I didn't. I started a ham radio club, instead. I was the only one
in the club without a ticket, but I was the best tech there. ...

How did you learn it?


I read every electronics book I could find, including some EE
textbooks. I spent ALL of my allowance on electronics magazines, tools
and Heathkit test equipment. I repaired junk electronics, starting with
table radios and phonographs. TVs with bad tubes and minor problems
were next. By the time I was 13 I was working part time in a TV shop.
I have always had the ability to do logical troubleshooting. Cut the
problem in half and determine which half has the problem, and repeat
until you find all the faults. NEVER assume that something only has a
single fault. People are generally lazy & cheap. They will use
something till it is useless. A lot of techs are lazy, too. They
shotgun every repair, wasting time and materials because they don't
really understand what they are doing. They refuse to buy decent test
equipment or tools, and their work shows it. Like when I bought a brand
new 5 MHz dual trace scope to repair TVs. Most shops had a 25 year old
(or older) single channel, non triggered scope with a 500 KHz or lower
resolution. Leader was demonstrating them at the local parts house and
I bought the best scope they had at the time. The other techs laughed,
but it doubled the amount of work I could do in a week.



I tried to learn electronics in high school and found the available
resources very limited, even though the physics teacher lived a few
houses away and let me browse his library. I didn't know any ham
operators then.


The Physic teacher at my high school was a friend, but lived in
another town. When we got to electricity in class, he had me answer the
other student's questions and told them I had more experience than he
did. His free period was during one of my shop classes and it wasn't
unusual to see him walk in with a hand drawn schematic or Sams photofact
with questions. The school had a pair of complete W.W. II Aircraft
RADAR systems with all of the manuals that were loaned to them in the
'50s. When they tried to return them, they were told to destroy the
hardware & manuals. While the knuckle draggers were busy gutting the
hardware, I was studying the manuals. A few years later I spent a few
weeks doing RADAR work in the US Army without any official training.
The circuits were similar to TV broadcast equipment, and not as
complicated since there was no IFF equipment. The only training I
received from the Army was weapons training. I tested out of the three
year Broadcast Engineering course while in Basic Training.


The hams I knew in high school were mostly rich kids that didn't know
much about electronics. They would cram for the test, then forget
everything. The few adults weren't about to let anyone else in their
shack. Probably so that no one could see they didn't have the complete
Collins, National Radio or Drake station they claimed to. Years later,
I worked in the only shop in the area that repaired ham gear and
industrial electronics and they never brought in a top line piece of
equipment.

My father was also self-taught and had missed electrical training, he
never did learn how to connect a three-way wall switch and I had to do
it every single time.


I pre wired some buildings for burglar alarms, fire alarms,
background music or commercial radio base stations. I was good friends
with the area's biggest electrical contractor. His son was an anal
retentive jerk who would show up to clean up the scrap copper at job
sites. He was always bragging that he knew more about electrical work
than I did. One day he was bragging that he could not only wire a three
way light, he could wire a four way. I grinned and asked if he could do
a five way or six way. He started screaming that there was no such
thing, while the electricians were laughing behind his back. It's a
GOOD thing he took all the money from the scrap wire and went to dental
school, he was a lousy electrician. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 01:02:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

This may be of interest..and might point out some titles that can be
downloaded here and there, for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Science_Fiction

No basilisk there, but I found it on Baen's site and downloaded it.
I _hate_ reading long books on the computer, though. Me ojos no like
it.


Don't hermits have printers? ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:14:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:52:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:



I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
matters.

i

Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.

SciFi is a good starter for kids. Lots of younger SciFi out there.
Early Heinlein is a Great starter for kids.

I'll heartily second that. Asimov is good after that start. After
he's read all several hundred of theirs, it's time for Larry Niven.
MAN, I love that guy's writing! Andre Norton rounds out the last of
my top 4 SciFi writers of all time. I'm going through Anne
McCaffery's list now, both fantasy and SciFi. (The brainships were
fun.)


I was hummm 6-8, couldnt read a word, had no use for it. Then Mom
brought home a Tom Swift book from the library. By the time the summer
was over..Id read the entire set, was up to 7th grade reading level.
This was when I was just into kindergarden /1st grade somewhere about
that age. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was reading at
graduate/college level.

Cool.


And Ive been a book junkie ever since. When I went into the military in
71..I took a refridg shipping box..fullsized upright kitchen fridge,
filled with books to the library and donated them before shipping out.
A ton of Ace doubles etc etc..nearly all SciFi

Gunner, with about 6000 here at the homestead

Since our libraries split, I don't have access to _On Basilisk
Station_ and none of the local used book stores have a copy. Have you
seen it on one of your ebook sites, perchance? I really want to
reread that. (I'm rereading John Ringo's _Ghost_ this weekend. MAN,
what a hoot!)

Email me an valid email address..and Ill send you a care package.

Whats the max size you can receive?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


axolotl wrote:

On 6/10/2010 4:44 PM, Ignoramus28478 wrote:
On 2010-06-10, wrote:
On 6/9/2010 6:14 PM, Ignoramus967 wrote:

I love both suggestions. I think that he may have read some hardy boys
books (secrets of the old mill comes to mind, at first I thought it
was related to milling machines). I will explore this hardy book
question today.

Ig,

You want the old editions of these books, published in the 40's and
50's. The series has been rewritten to make them more PC and less
interesting. A good excuse to visit the used book store.

I was fully unaware (I bought books 1-6). What has changed?

i

Plotlines, dialog, pretty much everything. My son read the HB books I
had as a kid. The school had a (required) summer reading program with a
list of books. After I complained the the selection of books was slanted
towards the tastes of little girls, the Hardy Boys books were added. Son
took the multiple choice test on a Hardy Boys book. Flunked. Same title,
different book.
For instance, I can remember that in "The Shore Road Mystery" Frank
Hardy gets his revolver and hides in the trunk of a car to catch car
thieves. I don't believe that would pass the current children's
literature editorial gate. The old books simply have better writing.

Don't neglect to take your kids to shows as they get older. What is dry
and boring in the classroom is funny and fascinating on stage. With both
of mine, I let them know that the school wouldn't let them read the
"good parts" of Shakespeare, and "let" them read the scene in All's Well
where Parolles is trying to talk Helena out of her virginity ("That,
once lost is won ten times over!").

If you make a trip out east, I'll point you to the Old Mill.
Unfortunately, it's been trashed by someone making a suburban home from it.


I loved the 'Space opera' genera. EE 'Doc' Smith and his 'Lensman'
series. Robert Heinlein's 'The Moon Is a harsh Mistress' about survival
on Mars during a political upheaval. There were hundreds of others. I
read everything on that subject, along with military history, hard
science and electronics my school's various libraries.

I volunteered in the library while in Junior High to get first chance
at new books, and hard to get books. I also repaired a lot of book
bindings, and used a wood burner and heat transfer foil to label new
books. I typed new cards for the card files, and maintained them. It
got me out of home room to open the library every morning, as well as
study hall.

When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
my library" by a 65 year old librarian.

This may be of interest..and might point out some titles that can be
downloaded here and there, for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Science_Fiction


Thanks. I'll check it out.

I need to gather all the free Ebooks I've got onto a single drive and
sort them out. Then burn a few sets of CDs or DVDs to archive them.

I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program? Somewhere I have a database
development system. Maybe I should dig it out and make my own? I would
like separate fields for publisher's book ID, and both forms of ISBN.
Maybe throw in a field for the L.O.C. number, as well. Then you can
create the report structure for various search formats. I did a parts
database about 25 years ago on the Commodore 64. I used + and - to move
forward and back in record order, @ to jump to a particular record
number. You could perform any function to a record while it was on
screen, unlike others I'd seen where you had to find the record, go to a
different program to edit, and another to print.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Steve Ackman wrote:

In , on Thu, 10 Jun 2010
10:07:22 -0400, Michael A. Terrell, wrote:

Steve Ackman wrote:

I don't think there were even Saturday morning
cartoons. IIRC, AFRTS (almost spells farts! hah!)
didn't come on until noon. Anyway, the novelty soon
wore off, and our television adventures soon dwindled
to rarely, and then to "why bother?"

I was a broadcast Engineer for AFRTS in the early '70s in Alaska.
The radio station was in operation 24/7. The TV station did go on at
noon during the week, but we signed on at 7:00 AM on the weekends.

Hmmm... well this was early-mid '60s, so that might
not have been the case then, or it could be I'm just
misremembering.


I'm sure there were variations. The amount of TV airtime depended on
staffing. Radio could run unattended 24/7/365.25 with the AFN or AFRN
network feed, but TV had to have a broadcast engineer on duty. We had
three at the Greely station, but one was a useless alcoholic. He was so
addicted that couldn't function without it. They stuck him in the film
library, rather than have him shipped off for rehab.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Steve Ackman wrote:

and Buddha knows how many others.

42


Obama thinks that it's 57. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:36:24 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


axolotl wrote:

On 6/10/2010 4:44 PM, Ignoramus28478 wrote:
On 2010-06-10, wrote:
On 6/9/2010 6:14 PM, Ignoramus967 wrote:

I love both suggestions. I think that he may have read some hardy boys
books (secrets of the old mill comes to mind, at first I thought it
was related to milling machines). I will explore this hardy book
question today.

Ig,

You want the old editions of these books, published in the 40's and
50's. The series has been rewritten to make them more PC and less
interesting. A good excuse to visit the used book store.

I was fully unaware (I bought books 1-6). What has changed?

i

Plotlines, dialog, pretty much everything. My son read the HB books I
had as a kid. The school had a (required) summer reading program with a
list of books. After I complained the the selection of books was slanted
towards the tastes of little girls, the Hardy Boys books were added. Son
took the multiple choice test on a Hardy Boys book. Flunked. Same title,
different book.
For instance, I can remember that in "The Shore Road Mystery" Frank
Hardy gets his revolver and hides in the trunk of a car to catch car
thieves. I don't believe that would pass the current children's
literature editorial gate. The old books simply have better writing.

Don't neglect to take your kids to shows as they get older. What is dry
and boring in the classroom is funny and fascinating on stage. With both
of mine, I let them know that the school wouldn't let them read the
"good parts" of Shakespeare, and "let" them read the scene in All's Well
where Parolles is trying to talk Helena out of her virginity ("That,
once lost is won ten times over!").

If you make a trip out east, I'll point you to the Old Mill.
Unfortunately, it's been trashed by someone making a suburban home from it.


I loved the 'Space opera' genera. EE 'Doc' Smith and his 'Lensman'
series. Robert Heinlein's 'The Moon Is a harsh Mistress' about survival
on Mars during a political upheaval. There were hundreds of others. I
read everything on that subject, along with military history, hard
science and electronics my school's various libraries.

I volunteered in the library while in Junior High to get first chance
at new books, and hard to get books. I also repaired a lot of book
bindings, and used a wood burner and heat transfer foil to label new
books. I typed new cards for the card files, and maintained them. It
got me out of home room to open the library every morning, as well as
study hall.

When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
my library" by a 65 year old librarian.

This may be of interest..and might point out some titles that can be
downloaded here and there, for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Science_Fiction


Thanks. I'll check it out.

I need to gather all the free Ebooks I've got onto a single drive and
sort them out. Then burn a few sets of CDs or DVDs to archive them.

I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program? Somewhere I have a database
development system. Maybe I should dig it out and make my own? I would
like separate fields for publisher's book ID, and both forms of ISBN.
Maybe throw in a field for the L.O.C. number, as well. Then you can
create the report structure for various search formats. I did a parts
database about 25 years ago on the Commodore 64. I used + and - to move
forward and back in record order, @ to jump to a particular record
number. You could perform any function to a record while it was on
screen, unlike others I'd seen where you had to find the record, go to a
different program to edit, and another to print.

I have both a 250 gig and a 500 gig harddrive that a member here VERY
kindly sent me (I cant remember who you were (stoke moment..sigh)..but
THANKS every so much). The 250 gig drive is tucked away on my desk
hooked to a USB port and contains portions of my library. Probably 35-50
gigs worth.

Ive been trying various "library" packages, Calibre, etc etc..some are
pretty good, some suck.

Ill pass on what I find in a week or two, with comments and suggestions.


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Science_Fiction

Thanks. I'll check it out.

I need to gather all the free Ebooks I've got onto a single drive and
sort them out. Then burn a few sets of CDs or DVDs to archive them.

I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program? Somewhere I have a database
development system. Maybe I should dig it out and make my own? I would
like separate fields for publisher's book ID, and both forms of ISBN.
Maybe throw in a field for the L.O.C. number, as well. Then you can
create the report structure for various search formats. I did a parts
database about 25 years ago on the Commodore 64. I used + and - to move
forward and back in record order, @ to jump to a particular record
number. You could perform any function to a record while it was on
screen, unlike others I'd seen where you had to find the record, go to a
different program to edit, and another to print.

I have both a 250 gig and a 500 gig harddrive that a member here VERY
kindly sent me (I cant remember who you were (stoke moment..sigh)..but
THANKS every so much). The 250 gig drive is tucked away on my desk
hooked to a USB port and contains portions of my library. Probably 35-50
gigs worth.

Ive been trying various "library" packages, Calibre, etc etc..some are
pretty good, some suck.

Ill pass on what I find in a week or two, with comments and suggestions.


I've also considered putting a comma delimited text file on one of my
free web spaces.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
news

Steve Ackman wrote:

and Buddha knows how many others.

42


Obama thinks that it's 57. ;-)



Thass 'coz he's a "Heinz".

On Jun 12, 2:36*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
...
* *I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. *One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

* *I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. *Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program?...

I have no catalog at all. The paperbacks are stacked flat on shelves
with the tops out and the author or a word of the title written on it.
Last one out goes back on top. One pile out of dozens:
GAVIN
GIAP
GUEVARA
RICKENBACKER
YEAGER
RUDEL
GALLAND
J.WEBB
KHRUSHCHEV
BELENKO
PATTON
BITTER WOODS

Hard covers are piled similarly but not marked, I slide out the piles
and read the spines.

The time to find one to quote a passage in an argument is about 3-5
minutes, time spent cataloging is zero.

jsw

Larry Jaques on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:14:25
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:52:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:



I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
matters.

i

Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.

SciFi is a good starter for kids. Lots of younger SciFi out there.
Early Heinlein is a Great starter for kids.

I'll heartily second that. Asimov is good after that start. After
he's read all several hundred of theirs, it's time for Larry Niven.
MAN, I love that guy's writing! Andre Norton rounds out the last of
my top 4 SciFi writers of all time. I'm going through Anne
McCaffery's list now, both fantasy and SciFi. (The brainships were
fun.)


I was hummm 6-8, couldnt read a word, had no use for it. Then Mom
brought home a Tom Swift book from the library. By the time the summer
was over..Id read the entire set, was up to 7th grade reading level.
This was when I was just into kindergarden /1st grade somewhere about
that age. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was reading at
graduate/college level.

Cool.


And Ive been a book junkie ever since. When I went into the military in
71..I took a refridg shipping box..fullsized upright kitchen fridge,
filled with books to the library and donated them before shipping out.
A ton of Ace doubles etc etc..nearly all SciFi

Gunner, with about 6000 here at the homestead

Since our libraries split, I don't have access to _On Basilisk
Station_ and none of the local used book stores have a copy. Have you
seen it on one of your ebook sites, perchance? I really want to
reread that. (I'm rereading John Ringo's _Ghost_ this weekend. MAN,
what a hoot!)

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/

The guy has a bunch of the CDs available, either as a zip file, or as
a CD image. Download them and watch your productivity go all to pot.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
wrote:

My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.

I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.

My question is how do we improve his English,
snip
=========
Lots of good responses, but some items to consider.

(1) He is 9 years old and is the top decile [92%]. Most
likely he can't sing grand opera, nor run in hundred yard
dash is less than 10 seconds either. Rather than worry
about his "low" English scores, be glad of what you got.

(2) What is the significance of the 92% in English. Without
knowing the distribution of the other grades and what the
92% represents, it is difficult to reach any conclusion.
For all anyone knows 92% may have been the high grade in the
class or the school. Even if this 92% was on some sort of
standardized statewide test, the significance of 99% vs 92%
is unknown, other "than bragging rights."

(3) Why the concern about "academic trivial pursuit?" To be
sure a good command of written and spoken English [or other
majority/dominent language] is an asset, but when we examine
the pros/money players, i.e. public speakers, actors,
politicians, successful writers, etc. there are very few
English majors among them. Education should be a
preparation for life, not preparation for more education
unless the goal is to be a tenured professor teaching
English at university.

(4) Given his apparent knack for language, it may well be
far more useful for him as an adult to speak several
languages well [but not perfectly, what ever that means].
Thus an additional language, such as Spanish, may be far
more useful to him as an adult than "perfect" English.

(5) Recent research indicates that other skills such as
"social IQ" are just as if not more important than high
math/language skills for "success" in adult life. How is he
doing in the other areas, e.g. science, history,
interpersonal relationships?
http://blogs.bnet.com/business-books/?p=293
http://www.educationfutures.org/Social_IQ.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intelligence
http://www.addvance.com/help/parents/social_skills.html
http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Your-Chi.../dp/0966036689

Given his progress to date, it appears that whatever you are
doing is working. Good luck and let the group know what you
discover (and remember he is 9).


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)

Good points, George. I'm curious about what they're measuring, for one
thing. I'm also curious about what Iggy means by "improving his English."

Unless he's set his sights on a career as a copy editor g, the primary
benefit comes from speaking articulate and near-perfect standard English. In
high-end jobs, except perhaps for purely technical ones, and demanding
social situations, there are few things that will help you more than
well-polished speech. Clear and grammatically correct writing is second.

There are difficult ways to acquire good speech and easy ways. The easiest
is to live and work in an environment of people who speak very well, and who
expect you to do the same. That's a key reason that parents send their kids
to prep schools -- to acquire polish in their speech and social
relationships.

By age 9, he may have some habits acquired at home and from friends that
need work. It becomes harder as they grow older. Total immersion in an
environment with high expectations will overcome it.

It matters much less whether he can identify parts of speech -- although
being able to analyze language is important for a professional writer.
Otherwise, it has to be so natural and ingrained that you can speak it
without thinking about it.

Several others have covered the benefits of reading quality writing. I would
take issue with some of the selections we've heard here, but it's quite true
that the kid needs to really enjoy what he reads, or he's going nowhere with
it. If he likes adventure, sci-fi, or whatever, just be sure that he's
reading good examples of quality work.

--
Ed Huntress

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Jun 12, 2:36 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
...
I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program?...

I have no catalog at all. The paperbacks are stacked flat on shelves
with the tops out and the author or a word of the title written on it.
Last one out goes back on top. One pile out of dozens:
GAVIN
GIAP
GUEVARA
RICKENBACKER
YEAGER
RUDEL
GALLAND
J.WEBB
KHRUSHCHEV
BELENKO
PATTON
BITTER WOODS

Hard covers are piled similarly but not marked, I slide out the piles
and read the spines.

The time to find one to quote a passage in an argument is about 3-5
minutes, time spent cataloging is zero.


I have thousands of books, scattered through five buildings. A lot
are in boxes, to save space. One reason to catalog them is to sort out
duplicates. Another is to get a better idea of how many more bookcases
I need to build. Just my collection of semiconductor databooks and
service manuals fill my library.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Eregon wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
news

Steve Ackman wrote:

and Buddha knows how many others.

42


Obama thinks that it's 57. ;-)



Thass 'coz he's a "Heinz".


Green, upside down and in a plastic bottle?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

I liked the Bomba books - kinda Tarzan of South America.
All sorts of interesting books - the Tarzan series is good.

Some of these teach the rest of the world (ROW) concepts that
are often lost to city kids or country kids.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 6/12/2010 2:52 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:51:59 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
wrote:

My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.

I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.

My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
already a big help.

My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
equivalent of that for English.

I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
matters.

i

Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.

SciFi is a good starter for kids. Lots of younger SciFi out there.
Early Heinlein is a Great starter for kids.

I was hummm 6-8, couldnt read a word, had no use for it. Then Mom
brought home a Tom Swift book from the library. By the time the summer
was over..Id read the entire set, was up to 7th grade reading level.
This was when I was just into kindergarden /1st grade somewhere about
that age. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was reading at
graduate/college level.

And Ive been a book junkie ever since. When I went into the military in
71..I took a refridg shipping box..fullsized upright kitchen fridge,
filled with books to the library and donated them before shipping out.
A ton of Ace doubles etc etc..nearly all SciFi

Gunner, with about 6000 here at the homestead


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
I need to gather all the free Ebooks I've got onto a single drive and
sort them out. Then burn a few sets of CDs or DVDs to archive them.

I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program? Somewhere I have a database
development system. Maybe I should dig it out and make my own? I would
like separate fields for publisher's book ID, and both forms of ISBN.
Maybe throw in a field for the L.O.C. number, as well. Then you can
create the report structure for various search formats. I did a parts
database about 25 years ago on the Commodore 64. I used + and - to move
forward and back in record order, @ to jump to a particular record
number. You could perform any function to a record while it was on
screen, unlike others I'd seen where you had to find the record, go to a
different program to edit, and another to print.



In pondering this problem, and not having a clue what is commercially
available, my question is why reinvent the wheel?

The old way to catalog books was with three index cards, one for author, the
second for title and the third for subject matter.

The Dewey decimal system works great, and you could probably use an off the
shelf data base program for your card file if you wanted to keep it all
digital. If not, a simple card file should be cheap and easy to use for the
home library.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Larry Jaques on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:21:38
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:22:31 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote the following:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:14:25
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:52:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

Since our libraries split, I don't have access to _On Basilisk
Station_ and none of the local used book stores have a copy. Have you
seen it on one of your ebook sites, perchance? I really want to
reread that. (I'm rereading John Ringo's _Ghost_ this weekend. MAN,
what a hoot!)

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/

The guy has a bunch of the CDs available, either as a zip file, or as
a CD image. Download them and watch your productivity go all to pot.

Thanks for the link, Pete.

I need fully-relaxed downtime between digging out some bamboo and
doing a deck/porch for a client, and keeping my own place up.

I love to read so I jump on my bed, cozy up to the wedge, flip on the
light, and devour books while my back and footsies rest.

I'll be hard-pressed to read a single book from my computer, though.

About the only reason I can think of to get a netbook. And now, I
wants a kindle or similar sized device.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
I need to gather all the free Ebooks I've got onto a single drive and
sort them out. Then burn a few sets of CDs or DVDs to archive them.

I've made a dent in inventorying my printed books, but more just keep
showing up. I went to a flea market a few weeks ago. One of the dealers
gave me several large boxes of books and loaded them into my truck.

I have tried some of the cataloging software, but most are poorly
designed. Does anyone have any recommendations, other than just dumping
everything into a database program? Somewhere I have a database
development system. Maybe I should dig it out and make my own? I would
like separate fields for publisher's book ID, and both forms of ISBN.
Maybe throw in a field for the L.O.C. number, as well. Then you can
create the report structure for various search formats. I did a parts
database about 25 years ago on the Commodore 64. I used + and - to move
forward and back in record order, @ to jump to a particular record
number. You could perform any function to a record while it was on
screen, unlike others I'd seen where you had to find the record, go to a
different program to edit, and another to print.


In pondering this problem, and not having a clue what is commercially
available, my question is why reinvent the wheel?

The old way to catalog books was with three index cards, one for author, the
second for title and the third for subject matter.

The Dewey decimal system works great, and you could probably use an off the
shelf data base program for your card file if you wanted to keep it all
digital. If not, a simple card file should be cheap and easy to use for the
home library.


Simple? A three card system for thousands of books? I would have to
use tractor feed and print them out, due to the nerve damage in my
hands. If I have to type them to print them, I would prefer to keep it
digital. Also, you can't carry a card file system with you when you're
browsing a used book store. A netbook or old cellphone with Windows
mobile would let me scroll through lists by author or title.


How would you get the Dewy numbers without searching for those titles
in a library? My 1000+ data books and service manuals don't fit the
Dewy system.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:21:38
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:22:31 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote the following:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:14:25
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:52:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

Since our libraries split, I don't have access to _On Basilisk
Station_ and none of the local used book stores have a copy. Have you
seen it on one of your ebook sites, perchance? I really want to
reread that. (I'm rereading John Ringo's _Ghost_ this weekend. MAN,
what a hoot!)

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/

The guy has a bunch of the CDs available, either as a zip file, or as
a CD image. Download them and watch your productivity go all to pot.

Thanks for the link, Pete.

I need fully-relaxed downtime between digging out some bamboo and
doing a deck/porch for a client, and keeping my own place up.

I love to read so I jump on my bed, cozy up to the wedge, flip on the
light, and devour books while my back and footsies rest.

I'll be hard-pressed to read a single book from my computer, though.

About the only reason I can think of to get a netbook. And now, I
wants a kindle or similar sized device.


There was a used Kindle on ocala Craigslist the other day for $200.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:09:53 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The Dewey decimal system works great, and you could probably use an off the
shelf data base program for your card file if you wanted to keep it all
digital. If not, a simple card file should be cheap and easy to use for the
home library.


Simple? A three card system for thousands of books? I would have to
use tractor feed and print them out, due to the nerve damage in my
hands. If I have to type them to print them, I would prefer to keep it
digital. Also, you can't carry a card file system with you when you're
browsing a used book store. A netbook or old cellphone with Windows
mobile would let me scroll through lists by author or title.


How would you get the Dewy numbers without searching for those titles
in a library? My 1000+ data books and service manuals don't fit the
Dewy system.

A decent PDA might be just the ticket for browsing used book stores.

They have fallen out of favor, now that cell phones often have much the
same sorts of programming

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

In pondering this problem, and not having a clue what is commercially
available, my question is why reinvent the wheel?

The old way to catalog books was with three index cards, one for author, the
second for title and the third for subject matter.

The Dewey decimal system works great, and you could probably use an off the
shelf data base program for your card file if you wanted to keep it all
digital. If not, a simple card file should be cheap and easy to use for the
home library.


Simple? A three card system for thousands of books? I would have to
use tractor feed and print them out, due to the nerve damage in my
hands. If I have to type them to print them, I would prefer to keep it
digital. Also, you can't carry a card file system with you when you're
browsing a used book store. A netbook or old cellphone with Windows
mobile would let me scroll through lists by author or title.


How would you get the Dewy numbers without searching for those titles
in a library? My 1000+ data books and service manuals don't fit the
Dewy system.



Of course they do, Michael.
Were I to do this I'd use Access to build a three card database.
Just like it was on 3x5 cards - but machine readable.

But I doubt Access ( a relational database program) will run on a cell phone.



Here's a good start.
http://www.library.illinois.edu/ugl/about/dewey.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ecimal_classes

The Dewey Decimal Classification System

The Dewey Decimal Classification System (DDC) is a system that classifies or
categorizes nonfiction books into ten main divisions. These classes are further
divided into ten subdivisions and the use of decimals allows for additional
categories. A book is assigned a Dewey number based on its subject matter. In
most libraries the Dewey number and the first one, two or three letters of the
author's last name become the book's call number, or its address on the library
shelves. Nonfiction books are arranged numerically on the shelves according to
DDC, ranging from 001 to 999.

The Dewey Decimal Classification System is the most widely used classification
system in the world. Libraries in more than 135 countries use the DDC to
organize and provide access to their collections. The DDC has been translated
into over thirty languages. Libraries of every type apply Dewey numbers. Some
Internet search engines use Dewey as a browsing mechanism.





--

Richard Lamb

On Jun 12, 10:13*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
....
* *I have thousands of books, scattered through five buildings. *A lot
are in boxes, to save space. *One reason to catalog them is to sort out
duplicates. *Another is to get a better idea of how many more bookcases
I need to build. Just my collection of semiconductor databooks and
service manuals fill my library.

My eBooks are filed by author if I remember the name, otherwise by
subject, pretty much a single listing version of the way Gutenberg
does it except that bios are filed under the subject's name. I have
folders for authors A - Z and for technical or historical fields.

20,000 Leagues is only under Verne for instance since I know who wrote
it, while The Invention of the Sewing Machine is technical history
because who has heard of Grace Cooper? In a few ambiguous cases I
saved the file in two place rather than creating a cross-reference.

In general my sorting systems for books, screws, resistors etc are
only detailed enough that I can find what I want in a minute or three.
That way the space they occupy is greatly reduced, as is maintenance
time.

For example machine screws are binned by diameter and whether they are
steel or stainless/brass/aluminum, but all lengths and head types are
in the same drawer because I can pick out one with a ruler and match
the rest easily by eye.

Naval downloads are divided into battles and ship classes, then some
like battleships are subdivided by nation. Within that I can usually
see all the titles on the screen at once.

Perhaps it works for me because I am nearsighted and a very fast
reader. The Evelyn Wood (?) people came around when I was in 6th grade
and promised 600 words a minute from their program. I took their test
and could read that fast already.

Otherwise determine how much you can distinguish quickly and sort to
that level. For my own use I catalog by the most memorable
characteristic and don't cross-reference. The computer can find a word
of the title or the author's name in files saved by broad subject
anyway.

jsw

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
m:

Simple? A three card system for thousands of books? I would have to
use tractor feed and print them out, due to the nerve damage in my
hands. If I have to type them to print them, I would prefer to keep it
digital. Also, you can't carry a card file system with you when you're
browsing a used book store. A netbook or old cellphone with Windows
mobile would let me scroll through lists by author or title.



Then check out Readerware - http://www.readerware.com - 'coz they have
excellent packages for Books, Audio Media, and Video Media.

I use mine on an Acer Aspire One netbook to catalog all 3 types.
(Different programs.)

Their software works as advertised and they've been around for a decade
if that means anything...

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in news:3f-
:


Eregon wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
news

Steve Ackman wrote:

and Buddha knows how many others.

42


Obama thinks that it's 57. ;-)



Thass 'coz he's a "Heinz".


Green, upside down and in a plastic bottle?



Gore's the Green.

The Obamanation is "57 Varieties" - all stupid and/or crooked.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Jun 12, 10:13 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
....
I have thousands of books, scattered through five buildings. A lot
are in boxes, to save space. One reason to catalog them is to sort out
duplicates. Another is to get a better idea of how many more bookcases
I need to build. Just my collection of semiconductor databooks and
service manuals fill my library.

My eBooks are filed by author if I remember the name, otherwise by
subject, pretty much a single listing version of the way Gutenberg
does it except that bios are filed under the subject's name. I have
folders for authors A - Z and for technical or historical fields.

Sci-Fi Ebooks are sorted by author. Technical books by title.


20,000 Leagues is only under Verne for instance since I know who wrote
it, while The Invention of the Sewing Machine is technical history
because who has heard of Grace Cooper? In a few ambiguous cases I
saved the file in two place rather than creating a cross-reference.

In general my sorting systems for books, screws, resistors etc are
only detailed enough that I can find what I want in a minute or three.
That way the space they occupy is greatly reduced, as is maintenance
time.


I was running a repair business, and needed part numbers and specs
for the work orders. Actual parts like resistors or capacitors were
sorted by value, and two values per drawer. Semiconductors were two
categories. OEM, and ECG numbering. I could find anything I needed in
seconds, and kept a scratch pad next to the cabinets to record what I'd
used. Once a month I would print out the database to carry on service
calls. That way if I needed a part I knew whether to head to the shop,
or the wholesalers.


Misc. hardware is sorted by diameter, then length. Oddball
connectors are sorted by the number of pins. Phone and coaxial power
plugs by size.


For example machine screws are binned by diameter and whether they are
steel or stainless/brass/aluminum, but all lengths and head types are
in the same drawer because I can pick out one with a ruler and match
the rest easily by eye.

Naval downloads are divided into battles and ship classes, then some
like battleships are subdivided by nation. Within that I can usually
see all the titles on the screen at once.

Perhaps it works for me because I am nearsighted and a very fast
reader. The Evelyn Wood (?) people came around when I was in 6th grade
and promised 600 words a minute from their program. I took their test
and could read that fast already.


My junior high school bought some speed reading machines. Students
in the college prep course were allowed to sign up for a special program
that summer to use them, before anyone else. It was basically full
access to the school library, all summer. After a couple weeks I could
read faster than any of the machines. I would be at the bottom of the
page while the moving gate was 50 to 75% of the way down.


Otherwise determine how much you can distinguish quickly and sort to
that level. For my own use I catalog by the most memorable
characteristic and don't cross-reference. The computer can find a word
of the title or the author's name in files saved by broad subject
anyway.


That is why I'm considering a custom database. Not only will I be
able to identify a book I'm looking for, but where it's stored. Some
lists are converted to PDF and put online, like this one:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.terrell/CM-RC-index.pdf which is an
index to service manuals for early turntables. I also have it in HTML
and comma separated text, as well as the database file I created it
from.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Eregon wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in news:3f-
:


Eregon wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
news

Steve Ackman wrote:

and Buddha knows how many others.

42


Obama thinks that it's 57. ;-)



Thass 'coz he's a "Heinz".


Green, upside down and in a plastic bottle?



Gore's the Green.


You've never seen the Green Heinz Catsup that you stand on its lid?


The Obamanation is "57 Varieties" - all stupid and/or crooked.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Larry Jaques on Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:04:42
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:38:55 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote the following:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:21:38
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I'll be hard-pressed to read a single book from my computer, though.

About the only reason I can think of to get a netbook.

Grok that.


And now, I wants a kindle or similar sized device.

I wish I could borrow or rent a Kindle for a week to see if my eyes
could handle one better than my old tube-type monitor or my new LCD
monitor. But I still don't like their pricing model. Given the price
of their books, they could -give- away the Kindle and still make gross
profits in the tens of millions per year. I've seen Kindle books
going for hundreds and thousands of dollars. UFR!

There is that. So, Ebay or Craigslist
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!