On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 15:04:41 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 13:10:56 -0700, "Artemus" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
Letter From A Retired Border Patrol Agent

This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired border
patrol agent It has more common sense than most the bull being spewed
from the Congress.

Dear Senator Frist,

snip

Do you have the courage to do what is right for America ? Or, will you
bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to
remain here? There will be another reckoning -- it will come in November
of this year, again in 2012 and yet again in 2014. We will not allow
America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard US Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford , Arizona



True according to Snopes. However, the original date was 2006 and the dates in the
last paragraph have been tweaked.

More of his letters he
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...a3d25e1efe4b25
Art


Sounds like the man has some definate things to say, and is not shy
about saying them.

So what ARE we going to do about the illegals?

Gunner

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL

Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.


--

Richard Lamb

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place machine gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of this
type.

Bill Noble wrote:


"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing to pay for it.


Yes.

Because...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUc8nuo7HI

--

Richard Lamb

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:11:05 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.


Been there..saw that.

If the US ever gets half that bad..the nation is done.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place machine gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Bill Noble wrote:


"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing to pay for it.


Yes.

Because...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUc8nuo7HI

--

Richard Lamb



This may be a bit highbrow, anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y5tIytl8hA

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 14:32:57 +0800, "kelly" wrote:


"cavelamb" wrote in message
om...
Bill Noble wrote:


"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing to pay for it.


Yes.

Because...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUc8nuo7HI

--

Richard Lamb



This may be a bit highbrow, anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y5tIytl8hA

That situation could have been easily fixed with one quick burst from a
mini-gun


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:56:43 -0500, Sunworshipper
wrote:

So what ARE we going to do about the illegals?

Gunner

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure?

Yeah, but the illegals are not really boarders, more like squatters.
g

If people who *hire* undocumented workers faced large fines first,
then jail terms, the flood would not only dry to a trickle, but there
would be a sizeable exodus of unemployed people back to their real
homes. A lot of labor costs would increase, though.

Joe

On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:35:18 -0400, Joe wrote
the following:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:56:43 -0500, Sunworshipper
wrote:

So what ARE we going to do about the illegals?

Gunner

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure?

Yeah, but the illegals are not really boarders, more like squatters.
g

Squatters and/or invading armies.


If people who *hire* undocumented workers faced large fines first,
then jail terms, the flood would not only dry to a trickle, but there
would be a sizeable exodus of unemployed people back to their real
homes.

Yeah, it's enforcement of those new laws which needs to be addressed.
In their 'wisdom', Libtards prevent enforcement every time.


A lot of labor costs would increase, though.

Not by much, though. I haven't seen anyone pay an illegal less than
minimum wages for 20-30 years.

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place machine gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me. Sure the states have
some rights, but they should be federally mandated if they pull ****
like that then they have to have in bold letters across the ID that it
is only valid it that state. Or more or less "We promote illegal
activity in this state." Which seems admission of guilt.

This is starting to sound like your gun thing. Only the law abiders
are denied their right not to be asked to prove citizenship. Right?

Is it cause no one wants to be counted? Come on people, "they"
already know who you are. It's just that they don't care yet unless
you get targeted and probably will never allow access.

SW

On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:35:18 -0400, Joe wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:56:43 -0500, Sunworshipper
wrote:

So what ARE we going to do about the illegals?

Gunner

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure?

Yeah, but the illegals are not really boarders, more like squatters.
g

If people who *hire* undocumented workers faced large fines first,
then jail terms, the flood would not only dry to a trickle, but there
would be a sizeable exodus of unemployed people back to their real
homes. A lot of labor costs would increase, though.

Joe

ooops Hey, lots of times the spell checker thinks I'm alien too.

SW

"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?

Sure the states have
some rights, but they should be federally mandated if they pull ****
like that then they have to have in bold letters across the ID that it
is only valid it that state. Or more or less "We promote illegal
activity in this state." Which seems admission of guilt.

This is starting to sound like your gun thing. Only the law abiders
are denied their right not to be asked to prove citizenship. Right?

Is it cause no one wants to be counted? Come on people, "they"
already know who you are. It's just that they don't care yet unless
you get targeted and probably will never allow access.

SW

Gunner has never run into a problem that he can't solve by killing millions
of people he doesn't like. And he always favors that as a solution.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:07:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right? How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.


Sure the states have
some rights, but they should be federally mandated if they pull ****
like that then they have to have in bold letters across the ID that it
is only valid it that state. Or more or less "We promote illegal
activity in this state." Which seems admission of guilt.

This is starting to sound like your gun thing. Only the law abiders
are denied their right not to be asked to prove citizenship. Right?

Is it cause no one wants to be counted? Come on people, "they"
already know who you are. It's just that they don't care yet unless
you get targeted and probably will never allow access.

SW

Gunner has never run into a problem that he can't solve by killing millions
of people he doesn't like. And he always favors that as a solution.

On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:09:09 -0500, Sunworshipper
wrote the following:

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right? How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

Here ya go. My favorite license pic of all time.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2fpnemv


Gunner has never run into a problem that he can't solve by killing millions
of people he doesn't like. And he always favors that as a solution.

Huh? You say that like it's a bad thing or something.

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:07:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must
be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction
of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place
machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want
secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country
that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right?

No, I'm serious.

How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

--
Ed Huntress



Sure the states have
some rights, but they should be federally mandated if they pull ****
like that then they have to have in bold letters across the ID that it
is only valid it that state. Or more or less "We promote illegal
activity in this state." Which seems admission of guilt.

This is starting to sound like your gun thing. Only the law abiders
are denied their right not to be asked to prove citizenship. Right?

Is it cause no one wants to be counted? Come on people, "they"
already know who you are. It's just that they don't care yet unless
you get targeted and probably will never allow access.

SW

Gunner has never run into a problem that he can't solve by killing
millions
of people he doesn't like. And he always favors that as a solution.

Sure the states have
some rights, but they should be federally mandated if they pull ****
like that then they have to have in bold letters across the ID that it
is only valid it that state. Or more or less "We promote illegal
activity in this state." Which seems admission of guilt.

This is starting to sound like your gun thing. Only the law abiders
are denied their right not to be asked to prove citizenship. Right?

Is it cause no one wants to be counted? Come on people, "they"
already know who you are. It's just that they don't care yet unless
you get targeted and probably will never allow access.

SW

Gunner has never run into a problem that he can't solve by killing millions
of people he doesn't like. And he always favors that as a solution.

Not the only solution, but unfortunately the only possible one these
days. And one I really dont approve of, but..shrug...Im hardly going to
argue with the People. I value my own life far too much, unlike
Leftwingers, who have been taunting the group of pit bulls with bits of
meat.

It wont be my fault when the pits finally get ****ed off and simply
overwhelm, and kill the taunter.

But, as anyone who feels for dogs would say..the taunter had it coming.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 23:29:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:07:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must
be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction
of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place
machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want
secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country
that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right?

No, I'm serious.

How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

I'm no attorney and never really thought about it much before, cause I
never did get to the understanding of what the big deal was about
being asked to identify oneself. It happens so often that I would
think citizenship would be inclusive.

I would think if these non-citizenship ID's or DL's where used in
another state or entering a federal building they would be deemed
"fake" and thus worthless for identification. Every state that I've
got a DL would not accept the other's as "real", even though one had
to show just about everything under the sun to get the old one. I've
never tried getting a DL with fake papers.

I find it hard to believe with the tons and tons of law books that one
can just land in the US and not get thrown in jail for not identifying
yourself sooner or later. Oh, he's ok he doesn't have anything, but
this fake DL that some state swallowed some crap information.

Can you explain what it is about civil rights in the US? What are you
suppose to do when being profiled, targeted, traveling, banking, being
asked by the park ranger, airport, court houses, ect. ? Jump up and
down saying that your civil rights are being violated and your not
gonna show them ID? If true , boy we're wide open for this new
warfare.

SW

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:22:15 -0500, Sunworshipper wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 23:29:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:07:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must
be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction
of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place
machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want
secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country
that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right?

No, I'm serious.

How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

I'm no attorney and never really thought about it much before, cause I
never did get to the understanding of what the big deal was about
being asked to identify oneself. It happens so often that I would
think citizenship would be inclusive.

I would think if these non-citizenship ID's or DL's where used in
another state or entering a federal building they would be deemed
"fake" and thus worthless for identification. Every state that I've
got a DL would not accept the other's as "real", even though one had
to show just about everything under the sun to get the old one. I've
never tried getting a DL with fake papers.

I find it hard to believe with the tons and tons of law books that one
can just land in the US and not get thrown in jail for not identifying
yourself sooner or later. Oh, he's ok he doesn't have anything, but
this fake DL that some state swallowed some crap information.

Can you explain what it is about civil rights in the US? What are you
suppose to do when being profiled, targeted, traveling, banking, being
asked by the park ranger, airport, court houses, ect. ? Jump up and
down saying that your civil rights are being violated and your not
gonna show them ID? If true , boy we're wide open for this new
warfare.

SW

Part of the problem..and we have seen this in banks..is that many places
are not able to speak spanish...and as such...would rather just push the
individual through the system rather than not take their money and be
embarassed.

Many times a latino can simply dummy down, speak nothing but spanish and
look bewildered, and get away with all manner of things that we English
speakers have to show a ****load of ID for.

Ive a buddy, who is 4th Generation American, 25 yr Army vet...who looks
just like he got off the bus from Guatamala. He has played this card
for years, simply because of the digust he shows for any system that
allowed itself to be manipulated in such a fashion.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 09:37:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:22:15 -0500, Sunworshipper wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 23:29:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:07:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must
be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction
of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place
machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill - and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want
secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country
that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right?

No, I'm serious.

How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

I'm no attorney and never really thought about it much before, cause I
never did get to the understanding of what the big deal was about
being asked to identify oneself. It happens so often that I would
think citizenship would be inclusive.

I would think if these non-citizenship ID's or DL's where used in
another state or entering a federal building they would be deemed
"fake" and thus worthless for identification. Every state that I've
got a DL would not accept the other's as "real", even though one had
to show just about everything under the sun to get the old one. I've
never tried getting a DL with fake papers.

I find it hard to believe with the tons and tons of law books that one
can just land in the US and not get thrown in jail for not identifying
yourself sooner or later. Oh, he's ok he doesn't have anything, but
this fake DL that some state swallowed some crap information.

Can you explain what it is about civil rights in the US? What are you
suppose to do when being profiled, targeted, traveling, banking, being
asked by the park ranger, airport, court houses, ect. ? Jump up and
down saying that your civil rights are being violated and your not
gonna show them ID? If true , boy we're wide open for this new
warfare.

SW

Part of the problem..and we have seen this in banks..is that many places
are not able to speak spanish...and as such...would rather just push the
individual through the system rather than not take their money and be
embarassed.

Many times a latino can simply dummy down, speak nothing but spanish and
look bewildered, and get away with all manner of things that we English
speakers have to show a ****load of ID for.

Ive a buddy, who is 4th Generation American, 25 yr Army vet...who looks
just like he got off the bus from Guatamala. He has played this card
for years, simply because of the digust he shows for any system that
allowed itself to be manipulated in such a fashion.

Gunner



Or like, the time I was driving back from mexico and had to show my
'real' DL to the border guard, he asked me what state I was born in.
He looked like he never heard of that state before. All I could think
of was, "You know like the first, May Flower, Plymouth Rock..."

Hmmm, probably just started a war for the first with NY.

Yeap, or another time (been across many times) 3 whites and one
obvious latina in the car driving back and she gets carded, she came
unglue at that dude for embarrassing her. Made her dig out that 'real'
ID though.

SW

Gunner Asch on Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass

Oh, they can be included in the count too.

and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizin
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 23:29:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:07:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:55:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:50:11 -0700, "Bill Noble"

wrote:



"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Sunworshipper wrote:

Doesn't it say up front in the constitution that the boarders must
be
secure? Or when the pres. accepts the job? I say it is dereliction
of
duty, congress, jud, & EX. ! Punishable to stripped of all wealth
documents and whatever then sent to ahhh Mexico City.

SW

P. S. Good luck with that. Better yet China LOL


That's actually a small point in international law.
A nation that can not secure its borders cannot maintain its
sovereignty.

Ask Cambodia - back in the 1970's.



the question is not securing the borders, the question is, are you
willing
to pay for it. securing the land border is trivial - just place
machine
gun
nests along the border and offer a bounty of 1000 for every kill -
and
pay
some reasonable wage. But the problem is that the people who want
secure
borders the most are the ones that whine about high taxes when we are
really
a very low tax nation, and I am not sure I want to live in a country
that
uses force that way - but it will work - East Germany used that
method
quite
effectively.

In some states, regular public executions remind people what is
forbidden -
we could adopt that practice - but do we want to? What is the price
we
are
willing to pay? Think this through before you make policy decisions
of
this
type.


We could simply pay a bounty on the dead, and once a day, have score
keepers wander the killing zone on the border tallying up the body
counts.

It would be a win win situation and far far cheaper than having the
government actually get off its fat, bloated, dead Leftwing ass and
actually do something about it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

I seem to have pegged you more tolerant. Or are they really taking
over now? I really don't want to get into it, but it always seemed to
push me over the edge when the contractors' board had a hard on for me
and the illegal mexicans where taking over. You know, everyone would
look the other way every time they made a move, but they would attack
me for not having a sign on my truck. It was like being beat down so
there is more room for them.

One time back in 1980 I was living maybe 17 miles from the border and
some friends of a friend where over at my condo and they invited me to
snipe wet backs, as they where earning their nick names, for fun. I
declined, but got this distinct feeling they were serious.

I don't mind mexicans, I've lived half my life with them. It's just
that they doubled or tripled in size from just walking across and
everyone is afraid of being politically incorrect to do something
about it and then they turned smug about it. I find it hard to believe
that we will lose any rights (as if we have anymore) by having a cop
ask for ID. I've always had to prove who I was to get a drivers
liecence , or at random by many people (like banks) and I know from
moving from state to state many times. The last time my old birth
certificate was deemed real and was no good, had to have an electronic
one from the state where I was born. So, where do some states get off
by granting fake ID's? Sounds criminal to me.

They don't. Where did you hear this?


Your joking right?

No, I'm serious.

How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't
address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which
ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

I'm no attorney and never really thought about it much before, cause I
never did get to the understanding of what the big deal was about
being asked to identify oneself. It happens so often that I would
think citizenship would be inclusive.

It's a 4th Amendment issue. It's unreasonable search. And it's seen by many
as a camel's-nose-under-the-tent intrusion on Constitutional rights. I'm not
an extremist on this issue, but that's why some people think it's a big
deal.


I would think if these non-citizenship ID's or DL's where used in
another state or entering a federal building they would be deemed
"fake" and thus worthless for identification. Every state that I've
got a DL would not accept the other's as "real", even though one had
to show just about everything under the sun to get the old one. I've
never tried getting a DL with fake papers.

The only thing those identifications don't do is identify citizenship. The
do identify residence, as well as any driver's licenses do from any state.

There's a town near here (Princeton, NJ) that's experimenting with ID cards
of that type -- no certification of citizenship, but they do identiry
residence. I don't know what they're good for but the people there seem
happy with them.

BTW, we do have illegal Mexicans in NJ and many other illegals from other
countries (total illegals are estimated at 250,000 - 400,000 -- about the
same number as Arizona, with a population size of the same order). Our
illegal resident population is growing at the same rate as Texas. So we're
not immune to the problem.


I find it hard to believe with the tons and tons of law books that one
can just land in the US and not get thrown in jail for not identifying
yourself sooner or later. Oh, he's ok he doesn't have anything, but
this fake DL that some state swallowed some crap information.

For most of the last 200 years, law officers have needed "reasonable
suspicion" that a crime has been committed, or a warrant or court order.


Can you explain what it is about civil rights in the US? What are you
suppose to do when being profiled, targeted, traveling, banking, being
asked by the park ranger, airport, court houses, ect. ? Jump up and
down saying that your civil rights are being violated and your not
gonna show them ID? If true , boy we're wide open for this new
warfare.

SW

It's not easy to keep up our adherence to civil rights, eh? Sometimes you
have a situation that really challenges your commitment to them. And
sometimes you run into a situation in which you decide you really don't
believe in them, after all.

--
Ed Huntress

Sunworshipper on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 12:28:54 -0500 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Part of the problem..and we have seen this in banks..is that many places
are not able to speak spanish...and as such...would rather just push the
individual through the system rather than not take their money and be
embarassed.

Many times a latino can simply dummy down, speak nothing but spanish and
look bewildered, and get away with all manner of things that we English
speakers have to show a ****load of ID for.

Ive a buddy, who is 4th Generation American, 25 yr Army vet...who looks
just like he got off the bus from Guatamala. He has played this card
for years, simply because of the digust he shows for any system that
allowed itself to be manipulated in such a fashion.

Gunner



Or like, the time I was driving back from mexico and had to show my
'real' DL to the border guard, he asked me what state I was born in.
He looked like he never heard of that state before. All I could think
of was, "You know like the first, May Flower, Plymouth Rock..."

Hmmm, probably just started a war for the first with NY.

Traveling by bus in the mid seventies, got stopped by a sweep. Was
asked "where were you born?" First thing which came to mind: "My
girlfriend was born in Munich." while I tried to remember where I'd
been born. (It had been years, and I'd been just a baby at the time.)

Yeap, or another time (been across many times) 3 whites and one
obvious latina in the car driving back and she gets carded, she came
unglue at that dude for embarrassing her. Made her dig out that 'real'
ID though.

Friend had a similar story, only she was considered the 'latina'
(she was part Native American, but from upstate New York) her friend
was from New Mexico, and the Guy was from Spain. And the less
Hispanic looking, the more Spanish was spoken. She thought it a hoot,
later.

SW
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Sunworshipper on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:22:15 -0500 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

I'm no attorney and never really thought about it much before, cause I
never did get to the understanding of what the big deal was about
being asked to identify oneself. It happens so often that I would
think citizenship would be inclusive.

I would think if these non-citizenship ID's or DL's where used in
another state or entering a federal building they would be deemed
"fake" and thus worthless for identification. Every state that I've
got a DL would not accept the other's as "real", even though one had
to show just about everything under the sun to get the old one. I've
never tried getting a DL with fake papers.

Some places have a reputation for accepting almost anything as
proof positive of your identification. Like the places which would
accept my Grandmother's checks with a credit card, never mind that the
Gas Company card she had was out of date. (Heck, I used a card from a
Car Rental Company for a few years.)
So, Person X (or "Eks") goes to State A and says "I need a
driver's license, and here is the papers for it." and get issued a DL
based on them living at the corner of Pork and Beans. Then they go to
StateB, and get a DL there, based on the fact that they have a legal
DL from State A ... and so on down the line.
Driver's licenses are like out of state checks (back in the day) -
there is no necessarily easy way to know which ones are "good" and
which one's aren't. Arizona listed the States which will issue DLs on
the flimsiest of documentation.

I find it hard to believe with the tons and tons of law books that one
can just land in the US and not get thrown in jail for not identifying
yourself sooner or later. Oh, he's ok he doesn't have anything, but
this fake DL that some state swallowed some crap information.

It isn't a "fake" ID, it is a Real, Genuwine, Issued by the State
of Confusion, Driver's License. That the person with that Genuwine
State Issued ID does not have a legal right to be in the State,
doesn't change things that much.

Can you explain what it is about civil rights in the US? What are you
suppose to do when being profiled, targeted, traveling, banking, being
asked by the park ranger, airport, court houses, ect. ? Jump up and
down saying that your civil rights are being violated and your not
gonna show them ID? If true , boy we're wide open for this new
warfare.

That we are. The problem is that with the expansion of the
welfare state, and the expansion of entitlements, then there is more
and more reason to get "into the system". Why don't people try and
sneak into Haiti? In part because there are no government benefits
there.
The downside of Aid to the Indigent, is that even if you do manage
to restrict it to citizens, that removes those citizens from the labor
pool. Then immigrants (legal or otherwise) come in to do the work
"that Citizens won't do", because they can 'make more' on Government
Aid.

I am not sure that we could go back to the halcyon days when a
man's word was his bond (as long as you knew each other well), and a
man could go where ever he pleased (for the most part). I doubt
those days really existed as they are thought to have been. ("rant,
rave, jump up and down and say terrible things about inanimate
objects.")

Paranoia is the delusion that they are out to get you. Well,
actually, they are out to get you. The delusion is that they are all
working together, just to get you. But that doesn't mean that
precautions shouldn't be taken. Remember, it is not the bullet with
your name on it that is the dangerous one, it is the bullet addressed
"too whom it may concern". And as far as They are concerned, you're
just part of the playing field.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!