Sunworshipper on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:22:15 -0500 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
How do they confirm who the person is without a US
birth certificate or pass port? From some birth certificate from
Guatemala? Am I missing something ? I've seen the ID's and Driver
Licences from people I know for a fact shouldn't be here.

The IDs and driver's licenses that only identify a person, but don't address
their citizenship, are quite common. Any worthwhile cop will know which ones
signify citizenship and which ones don't. The Arizona law even identifies
which states' licenses are acceptable as certification of citizenship.

The others aren't "fake."

I'm no attorney and never really thought about it much before, cause I
never did get to the understanding of what the big deal was about
being asked to identify oneself. It happens so often that I would
think citizenship would be inclusive.

I would think if these non-citizenship ID's or DL's where used in
another state or entering a federal building they would be deemed
"fake" and thus worthless for identification. Every state that I've
got a DL would not accept the other's as "real", even though one had
to show just about everything under the sun to get the old one. I've
never tried getting a DL with fake papers.

Some places have a reputation for accepting almost anything as
proof positive of your identification. Like the places which would
accept my Grandmother's checks with a credit card, never mind that the
Gas Company card she had was out of date. (Heck, I used a card from a
Car Rental Company for a few years.)
So, Person X (or "Eks") goes to State A and says "I need a
driver's license, and here is the papers for it." and get issued a DL
based on them living at the corner of Pork and Beans. Then they go to
StateB, and get a DL there, based on the fact that they have a legal
DL from State A ... and so on down the line.
Driver's licenses are like out of state checks (back in the day) -
there is no necessarily easy way to know which ones are "good" and
which one's aren't. Arizona listed the States which will issue DLs on
the flimsiest of documentation.

I find it hard to believe with the tons and tons of law books that one
can just land in the US and not get thrown in jail for not identifying
yourself sooner or later. Oh, he's ok he doesn't have anything, but
this fake DL that some state swallowed some crap information.

It isn't a "fake" ID, it is a Real, Genuwine, Issued by the State
of Confusion, Driver's License. That the person with that Genuwine
State Issued ID does not have a legal right to be in the State,
doesn't change things that much.

Can you explain what it is about civil rights in the US? What are you
suppose to do when being profiled, targeted, traveling, banking, being
asked by the park ranger, airport, court houses, ect. ? Jump up and
down saying that your civil rights are being violated and your not
gonna show them ID? If true , boy we're wide open for this new
warfare.

That we are. The problem is that with the expansion of the
welfare state, and the expansion of entitlements, then there is more
and more reason to get "into the system". Why don't people try and
sneak into Haiti? In part because there are no government benefits
there.
The downside of Aid to the Indigent, is that even if you do manage
to restrict it to citizens, that removes those citizens from the labor
pool. Then immigrants (legal or otherwise) come in to do the work
"that Citizens won't do", because they can 'make more' on Government
Aid.

I am not sure that we could go back to the halcyon days when a
man's word was his bond (as long as you knew each other well), and a
man could go where ever he pleased (for the most part). I doubt
those days really existed as they are thought to have been. ("rant,
rave, jump up and down and say terrible things about inanimate
objects.")

Paranoia is the delusion that they are out to get you. Well,
actually, they are out to get you. The delusion is that they are all
working together, just to get you. But that doesn't mean that
precautions shouldn't be taken. Remember, it is not the bullet with
your name on it that is the dangerous one, it is the bullet addressed
"too whom it may concern". And as far as They are concerned, you're
just part of the playing field.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!