RogerN wrote:

Here's a weird idea, could you use a computer scanner for paint matching?
Scan some of the original paint, get an average CYMK or similar reading on
an area, get some readings scanning base colors and figure out how much of
what to mix, try a sample, read with scanner, adjust for better match...
May have a lot of trouble with metalics or candy colors though.


A scanner uses CCFL tubes which are not the best choice for color
rendition. A good automotive paint store can use a color corrected
system to match the paint, or you can take your chances by using the
Vehicle's OEM paint number.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:13:48 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


Here's a weird idea, could you use a computer scanner for paint matching?
Scan some of the original paint, get an average CYMK or similar reading on
an area, get some readings scanning base colors and figure out how much of
what to mix, try a sample, read with scanner, adjust for better match...
May have a lot of trouble with metalics or candy colors though.

My local hardware store...ACE does just that. Bring in something you
want matched, they scan it, and the system automatically dispenses the
various paints into the proper color and shade.

Its actually pretty damned accurate, based on some of the machines Ive
repainted recently

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On 06/06/2010 08:13 PM, RogerN wrote:
Here's a weird idea, could you use a computer scanner for paint matching?
Scan some of the original paint, get an average CYMK or similar reading on
an area, get some readings scanning base colors and figure out how much of
what to mix, try a sample, read with scanner, adjust for better match...
May have a lot of trouble with metalics or candy colors though.

I think it'll be a long time before a machine does a better job than a
real artist. But it'll do a damn better job than me -- I'm color blind!

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On Jun 6, 9:13*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
Here's a weird idea, could you use a computer scanner for paint matching?
Scan some of the original paint, get an average CYMK or similar reading on
an area, get some readings scanning base colors and figure out how much of
what to mix, try a sample, read with scanner, adjust for better match...
May have a lot of trouble with metalics or candy colors though.

Already have such an animal in paint stores everywhere. Basically a
spectrometer hooked to a computer, tells how much of what to squirt
into the base. Or they can look up the OEM paint number on the build
sticker and go from that in the built-in database. Downside to that
is that you'll get the factory-new color, not what it's been faded out
to right now. One reason to redo whole panels instead of just spots,
unless you like the "leopard" look. And it's really hard to spot-fix
clear-coat jobs. Can be done, but takes a LOT of skill.

Spray can paint will last, at most, a couple of years on a car before
it fades, chalks or peels. Not worth doing for a really big spot. It
just doesn't have what it takes to survive automotive use. DAMHIK

Stan

RogerN wrote:

I got a chance to do a little playing this weekend. A trip to the auto
supply turned up a Dupli-Color spray can in Oxford white for something to
play with. I took my Porter Cable random orbit sander with 220 grit
paper(the finest I could find for it) and sanded down some areas that needed
touched up. The sand paper was quite aggressive right at first but after a
little wear it seemed OK. After sanding and feathering I wet sanded with
320, then dried and cleaned everything. I shot some self etching primer on
the areas that got to bare metal. Cleaned off everything with wax remover
and sprayed a few coats of paint.

After drying there was a dry area around the area I sprayed, I wet sanded
that area with 1500 until it felt smooth. Then I used rubbing compound with
a wool bonnet on a DeWalt 849 polisher/buffer and polished it all smooth and
glossy. It's difficult to tell what is new paint and what is old paint as
far as transition but the area with new paint has no chips or other
imperfections.

I guess the bottom line would be that it would be better to fix it all and
spray it all, just like JR said. But I was wanting to learn about blending
in an area by sanding and polishing and it seemed to work well enough. That
would be useful for a chip or scratch in a vehicle that doesn't need a paint
job. My truck that I'm practicing on is a 92 F-350 Diesel that started as
an FS truck and was then used in a landscape business, so it's scratched and
dinged all over, except the couple of places I touched it up :-) The truck
seems to have been kept up mechanically and drive train but the body has
been somewhat neglected.

I'm wanting to get a little bondo practice with it, a little more touch up,
and then I'll start trying to sell it. Then I may attempt to touch up
scratches in my Ranger, it has metallic paint and clear coat and I'm sure
will be somewhat more difficult to make a touch up look right.


RogerN



Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:54:41 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

BTW, what's the latest word on vinylester? I haven't seen much about it
recently. R.Q. Riley uses it for his carbon-fiber recumbent bicycle,
because, he says, you can use it with carbon fiber without the need to
vacuum-bag it. Do the rocket guys use vinylester for anything?

I don't know of any rocket guys using vinyl ester. I'm just barely
aware of the product. As I said, most if not all of them use epoxy.
Worth noting: the hobbyists who do high-power rocketry are *not*
necessarily technologically savvy. Some of the best rocket motors and
rockets I've ever seen were constructed by a friend who has a GED and
runs a welding shop in his real job.

Best -- Terry

"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:54:41 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

BTW, what's the latest word on vinylester? I haven't seen much about it
recently. R.Q. Riley uses it for his carbon-fiber recumbent bicycle,
because, he says, you can use it with carbon fiber without the need to
vacuum-bag it. Do the rocket guys use vinylester for anything?

I don't know of any rocket guys using vinyl ester. I'm just barely
aware of the product. As I said, most if not all of them use epoxy.
Worth noting: the hobbyists who do high-power rocketry are *not*
necessarily technologically savvy. Some of the best rocket motors and
rockets I've ever seen were constructed by a friend who has a GED and
runs a welding shop in his real job.

Best -- Terry

Aha. Well, working with reinforced materials requires a combination of
technical knowledge and a LOT of hands-on experience. The latter is more
important than the former, so a hobbyist who does a lot of it ought to make
out well in the end.

I love working with it, but part of the satisfaction comes from dealing with
its contrariness. The reason I don't do more is that, so far, I've avoided
becoming sensitized to epoxy, and I want to keep it that way; and the
styrene and other nasties in polyester can make me wheeze after a full day
of working inside of a boat hull. It presents some health hazards when you
work with large quantities.

And then, there is the fact that the day I started working for Ranger (then
owned by Bangor-Punta), a 50-something guy in the shop next door, where they
made Luhrs boats, died from silicosis, after 20 years of working in an
atmosphere of ground fiberglass dust.

--
Ed Huntress

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip

Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN

RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN



Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I started playing with the Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla that my wife crashed
early this year. I got the body straight enough I can at least get the fuel
cap open now, and I got the rear wheel somewhat aligned, she had the control
arm bent into a nice arch. If I can get the bumper back together and the
tail/turn lights replaced then the car should be once again ready to drive
on the road. I find all the reinfocement parts for the front bumper but I
need the rear bumper. Should I put a pipe bumper on the car and cover it
with the bumper cover? I'm getting frustrated finding every part I don't
need and no parts I do need, it seems they only expect you to damage the
front bumper. This crash involved my wife swerving while a truck coming the
other way hit her rear bumper, smashing the rear quarter panel and ripping
off the bumper & tail lights.

Should I look for rear bumper parts from a dealer, junk yard, or fabricate
my own from steel? I can spend the $150 for a new rear bumper cover but
internet searches haven't show any rear bumper parts other than the plasitc
cover.

RogerN

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:27:25 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I started playing with the Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla that my wife crashed
early this year. I got the body straight enough I can at least get the fuel
cap open now, and I got the rear wheel somewhat aligned, she had the control
arm bent into a nice arch. If I can get the bumper back together and the
tail/turn lights replaced then the car should be once again ready to drive
on the road. I find all the reinfocement parts for the front bumper but I
need the rear bumper. Should I put a pipe bumper on the car and cover it
with the bumper cover? I'm getting frustrated finding every part I don't
need and no parts I do need, it seems they only expect you to damage the
front bumper. This crash involved my wife swerving while a truck coming the
other way hit her rear bumper, smashing the rear quarter panel and ripping
off the bumper & tail lights.

Should I look for rear bumper parts from a dealer, junk yard, or fabricate
my own from steel? I can spend the $150 for a new rear bumper cover but
internet searches haven't show any rear bumper parts other than the plasitc
cover.

RogerN


That's what the dealer is for - or the hotline at the local wreckers.

RogerN wrote:
I started playing with the Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla that my wife crashed
early this year. I got the body straight enough I can at least get the fuel
cap open now, and I got the rear wheel somewhat aligned, she had the control
arm bent into a nice arch. If I can get the bumper back together and the
tail/turn lights replaced then the car should be once again ready to drive
on the road. I find all the reinfocement parts for the front bumper but I
need the rear bumper. Should I put a pipe bumper on the car and cover it
with the bumper cover? I'm getting frustrated finding every part I don't
need and no parts I do need, it seems they only expect you to damage the
front bumper. This crash involved my wife swerving while a truck coming the
other way hit her rear bumper, smashing the rear quarter panel and ripping
off the bumper & tail lights.

Should I look for rear bumper parts from a dealer, junk yard, or fabricate
my own from steel? I can spend the $150 for a new rear bumper cover but
internet searches haven't show any rear bumper parts other than the plasitc
cover.

RogerN




HMM, I just pulled up about 75 rear bumpers with covers within 100 miles
of my shop in NY.

Which year do you need? 94-97 are interchangeable.
Color?

How about state and close zip. I can punch it into Mitchell and see what
shows for that area.

OR try
Car-Part.com Enter the year make and model, then for the part you want
to search for Bumper Assy (Rear) includes cover.



--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip


HMM, I just pulled up about 75 rear bumpers with covers within 100 miles
of my shop in NY.

Which year do you need? 94-97 are interchangeable.
Color?

How about state and close zip. I can punch it into Mitchell and see what
shows for that area.

OR try
Car-Part.com Enter the year make and model, then for the part you want
to search for Bumper Assy (Rear) includes cover.



--
Steve W.

I have just been searching in Google but keep getting auto parts stores that
don't seem to have the parts I need. In the wreck my wife was swerving to
avoid a head on and the truck hit the rear quarter panel, smashing it flat,
and tore the bumper off from the side.

I am in Southern Illinois at zip code 62832. The color is white, but I
don't mind painting if I can find the right paint for the plastic bumper
cover. Do distant scrap yards ship parts? I'm hoping to find something
close.

Right now I'm pricing to see if it's worth fixing but I did get it drivable
but not legal without the bumper and tail lights. I found people wanting to
buy it for $175 for scrap but I can take it to the recycler myself. Just
seem a shame to waste a good car over a bumper, rear quarter panel, and tail
lights.

I've been bending the smashed quarter panel back into shape with a 4-ton
hydraulic porta power type body straightened. I have the metal functionally
in place, might need some tweaks to hold the tail light correctly.

Thanks

RogerN

RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
HMM, I just pulled up about 75 rear bumpers with covers within 100 miles
of my shop in NY.

Which year do you need? 94-97 are interchangeable.
Color?

How about state and close zip. I can punch it into Mitchell and see what
shows for that area.

OR try
Car-Part.com Enter the year make and model, then for the part you want
to search for Bumper Assy (Rear) includes cover.



--
Steve W.

I have just been searching in Google but keep getting auto parts stores that
don't seem to have the parts I need. In the wreck my wife was swerving to
avoid a head on and the truck hit the rear quarter panel, smashing it flat,
and tore the bumper off from the side.

I am in Southern Illinois at zip code 62832. The color is white, but I
don't mind painting if I can find the right paint for the plastic bumper
cover. Do distant scrap yards ship parts? I'm hoping to find something
close.

Most yards will ship parts. The catch is usually the cost.

Paint isn't a problem IF you have a small gun. You simply buy the
correct color and a small amount of additive that makes the paint
flexible. You can also usually buy the paint with additive in spray cans
at some places.


Right now I'm pricing to see if it's worth fixing but I did get it drivable
but not legal without the bumper and tail lights. I found people wanting to
buy it for $175 for scrap but I can take it to the recycler myself. Just
seem a shame to waste a good car over a bumper, rear quarter panel, and tail
lights.

Well I found a few around you.

http://www.nanceautosalvage.net/ (Pocahonas) shows a couple. $200

http://www.decaturautoparts.com/ (Decatur) has a couple. $185-210

http://www.carzrus1.com/ (Armington location) shows they have one with
paint problems for 60 bucks. Stock# E2962 A2124

They probably have 1/4s as well. Didn't look.


I've been bending the smashed quarter panel back into shape with a 4-ton
hydraulic porta power type body straightened. I have the metal functionally
in place, might need some tweaks to hold the tail light correctly.

Yeah getting a proper fit can sometimes be interesting. Usually I cheat
and just cut away all the really bad stuff and weld in new. Replacing a
complete 1/4 isn't all that bad IF you plan ahead and mark/cut gently.



Thanks

RogerN



Hope it helps.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in
the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN



Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I get
is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying thinner
with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or mineral spirits,
anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and it was the slickest
looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I like how the guy breaks all
the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap thinner, and get results equal or
better than most do with spray. Of course you have to consider that
Rustoleum doesn't have the color availability of the automotive paints, but
it would be fun to try a metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied
with rollers. No overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM
compressor to paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters
would last much longer.

RogerN

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
HMM, I just pulled up about 75 rear bumpers with covers within 100 miles
of my shop in NY.

Which year do you need? 94-97 are interchangeable.
Color?

How about state and close zip. I can punch it into Mitchell and see what
shows for that area.

OR try
Car-Part.com Enter the year make and model, then for the part you want
to search for Bumper Assy (Rear) includes cover.



--
Steve W.

I have just been searching in Google but keep getting auto parts stores
that
don't seem to have the parts I need. In the wreck my wife was swerving
to
avoid a head on and the truck hit the rear quarter panel, smashing it
flat,
and tore the bumper off from the side.

I am in Southern Illinois at zip code 62832. The color is white, but I
don't mind painting if I can find the right paint for the plastic bumper
cover. Do distant scrap yards ship parts? I'm hoping to find something
close.

Most yards will ship parts. The catch is usually the cost.

Paint isn't a problem IF you have a small gun. You simply buy the
correct color and a small amount of additive that makes the paint
flexible. You can also usually buy the paint with additive in spray cans
at some places.


Right now I'm pricing to see if it's worth fixing but I did get it
drivable
but not legal without the bumper and tail lights. I found people wanting
to
buy it for $175 for scrap but I can take it to the recycler myself. Just
seem a shame to waste a good car over a bumper, rear quarter panel, and
tail
lights.

Well I found a few around you.

http://www.nanceautosalvage.net/ (Pocahonas) shows a couple. $200

http://www.decaturautoparts.com/ (Decatur) has a couple. $185-210

http://www.carzrus1.com/ (Armington location) shows they have one with
paint problems for 60 bucks. Stock# E2962 A2124

They probably have 1/4s as well. Didn't look.


I've been bending the smashed quarter panel back into shape with a 4-ton
hydraulic porta power type body straightened. I have the metal
functionally
in place, might need some tweaks to hold the tail light correctly.

Yeah getting a proper fit can sometimes be interesting. Usually I cheat
and just cut away all the really bad stuff and weld in new. Replacing a
complete 1/4 isn't all that bad IF you plan ahead and mark/cut gently.



Thanks

RogerN



Hope it helps.

--
Steve W.

Thanks, I saw Nance's is about 50 miles away and also lists quarter panel
and tail lights for my car. If I can make one trip and get everything I
need for the car it would be great. It's not that important to me that the
car be cosmetically good as it is mechanically sound an reliable. I
dedicate a car for work and it gets the miles and dirt, so this one with a
banged up body would make a perfect work car and is in better condition and
runs better than my Honda Civic.

RogerN

RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in
the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN


Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I get
is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying thinner
with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or mineral spirits,
anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and it was the slickest
looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I like how the guy breaks all
the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap thinner, and get results equal or
better than most do with spray. Of course you have to consider that
Rustoleum doesn't have the color availability of the automotive paints, but
it would be fun to try a metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied
with rollers. No overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM
compressor to paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters
would last much longer.

RogerN




Nobody seems to have noticed how many times he sanded the entire car!

That job took at least a man-week.



--

Richard Lamb

RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in
the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN


Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I get
is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying thinner
with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or mineral spirits,
anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and it was the slickest
looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I like how the guy breaks all
the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap thinner, and get results equal or
better than most do with spray. Of course you have to consider that
Rustoleum doesn't have the color availability of the automotive paints, but
it would be fun to try a metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied
with rollers. No overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM
compressor to paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters
would last much longer.

RogerN



I can get the 3D to work but then have to fight with my eyes to get them
to focus normally again...

I have done a couple of low dollar paint jobs in the past. Used a short
nap roller and thinned DuPont enamel automotive paint. If you thin it
correctly and apply it in thin coats while sanding between coats it
works. The prep work is still the critical step. Once the body is
prepped you can apply the color in just about any way you like.

Spraying is used primarily for three reasons, it's MUCH easier and
faster than rolling and sanding each coat, you can apply thicker color
with a gun so you cover in one or two coats, with metallics and clears
the way the paint is laid down has a HUGE impact on what the final job
looks like.
With a metallic applied with roller I would bet you get an interesting
finish because the flakes would likely be in small groups. Clears
wouldn't work because anything that comes off the roller will show in
the clear and the sanding/buffing process can destroy a clear coat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

cavelamb wrote:
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good,
and in the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy
I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN


Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I
get is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat
pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying
thinner with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or
mineral spirits, anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and
it was the slickest looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I
like how the guy breaks all the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap
thinner, and get results equal or better than most do with spray. Of
course you have to consider that Rustoleum doesn't have the color
availability of the automotive paints, but it would be fun to try a
metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied with rollers. No
overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM compressor to
paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters would
last much longer.

RogerN




Nobody seems to have noticed how many times he sanded the entire car!

That job took at least a man-week.




True, BUT that isn't bad if you figure that your saving a LOT of money
and can DIY. Ever heard of the old car show staple the "20 coats of hand
rubbed lacquer" paint job. You do a TON of sanding on those as well.
Shoot on a thin coat, block out the car, another coat, sand. Repeat
these steps until you get a perfectly flat final paint coat. Then buff
the vehicle and enjoy the finish.

All of these new BC/CC paints make painting FAR faster and easier than
it was in the past. Still need a well prepped base but even that has
changed a LOT.

Used to be that you worked the metal, filed and sanded it smooth with
leading at the seams. Then wiped it down with solvent and shot on your
primer. Then blocked the primer and touched up any minor spots with spot
putty. Then put on another coat of primer, blocked that and then started
your color coats.

Now you beat the dents out until they are 1/8" or so, slather on a coat
of bondo, board and block the vehicle and then spray on some high build
primer. Once over with a D/A and base coat it. As long as the base is
even and full coverage you then just clean up any bugs/runs or crap.
Then clear coat it. Bake it and your done.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
cavelamb wrote:
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good,
and in the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy
I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN


Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I
get is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat
pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying
thinner with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or
mineral spirits, anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and
it was the slickest looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I
like how the guy breaks all the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap
thinner, and get results equal or better than most do with spray. Of
course you have to consider that Rustoleum doesn't have the color
availability of the automotive paints, but it would be fun to try a
metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied with rollers. No
overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM compressor to
paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters would
last much longer.

RogerN




Nobody seems to have noticed how many times he sanded the entire car!

That job took at least a man-week.




True, BUT that isn't bad if you figure that your saving a LOT of money
and can DIY. Ever heard of the old car show staple the "20 coats of hand
rubbed lacquer" paint job. You do a TON of sanding on those as well.
Shoot on a thin coat, block out the car, another coat, sand. Repeat
these steps until you get a perfectly flat final paint coat. Then buff
the vehicle and enjoy the finish.

All of these new BC/CC paints make painting FAR faster and easier than
it was in the past. Still need a well prepped base but even that has
changed a LOT.

Used to be that you worked the metal, filed and sanded it smooth with
leading at the seams. Then wiped it down with solvent and shot on your
primer. Then blocked the primer and touched up any minor spots with spot
putty. Then put on another coat of primer, blocked that and then started
your color coats.

Now you beat the dents out until they are 1/8" or so, slather on a coat
of bondo, board and block the vehicle and then spray on some high build
primer. Once over with a D/A and base coat it. As long as the base is
even and full coverage you then just clean up any bugs/runs or crap.
Then clear coat it. Bake it and your done.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On the once over with the D/A sander, do they make D/A sanders for wet
sanding? What grit do you sand with, 320, 400?

RogerN

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
snip

I can get the 3D to work but then have to fight with my eyes to get them
to focus normally again...

I have done a couple of low dollar paint jobs in the past. Used a short
nap roller and thinned DuPont enamel automotive paint. If you thin it
correctly and apply it in thin coats while sanding between coats it
works. The prep work is still the critical step. Once the body is
prepped you can apply the color in just about any way you like.

Spraying is used primarily for three reasons, it's MUCH easier and
faster than rolling and sanding each coat, you can apply thicker color
with a gun so you cover in one or two coats, with metallics and clears
the way the paint is laid down has a HUGE impact on what the final job
looks like.
With a metallic applied with roller I would bet you get an interesting
finish because the flakes would likely be in small groups. Clears
wouldn't work because anything that comes off the roller will show in
the clear and the sanding/buffing process can destroy a clear coat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Do the HVLP guns help with overspray/cover with less paint, by any
noticeable amount? I have a descent old school gun I got from a mechanics
yard sale, plus I have a Badger detail touch up gun and an air brush
(150IL), pretty good stuff in its day. I would prefer to spray than sand a
bunch of coats, I'm tempted to order these:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/ItemDetail....No=TCP%20G7000

I like the metal cups, some of the reviews of he HF guns said the plastic
threads stripped out on the cup, thought maybe the metal cups wouldn't strip
so easily.

I don't have any bondo goodies either, I guess I need a cheese grater type
bondo file and an inline sander. It's kind of fun having old autos that I
can learn on and not be afraid to mess up. I've gotten the quarter panel
from flattened out to having a shape that resembles the shape of the
original body, but it isn't pretty.

RogerN

RogerN wrote:

On the once over with the D/A sander, do they make D/A sanders for wet
sanding? What grit do you sand with, 320, 400?

RogerN



Sure, air powered with wet paper on them. Grit depends on what coat your
on.

Going over a dry vehicle to break the gloss on the paint and provide
tooth for a sealer - 220
Going over the final primer coat as prep for the color coat - 400 then a
follow up wiping with wax and grease remover.

Final sanding before a buffing - 1200 ON A HAND BLOCK!

BUT you will want to practice with the D/A before you use it a lot.
There are a lot of paint jobs that look like an ocean due to rocking the
D/A while using it. You want to hold it FLAT on most surfaces use the
edge in grooves and such.

Keep in mind that after every use you will want to wipe down with W?G
remover. This is due to the air supply having oil in it.

I also HIGHLY recommend that if your doing ANY painting with a gun that
you get a GOOD water separator and a different hose to feed the gun.
Mark it and cap it off after each use. That way you have a clean air
line to use. NEVER use it for tools, just gun use.


--
Steve W.

RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
snip
I can get the 3D to work but then have to fight with my eyes to get them
to focus normally again...

I have done a couple of low dollar paint jobs in the past. Used a short
nap roller and thinned DuPont enamel automotive paint. If you thin it
correctly and apply it in thin coats while sanding between coats it
works. The prep work is still the critical step. Once the body is
prepped you can apply the color in just about any way you like.

Spraying is used primarily for three reasons, it's MUCH easier and
faster than rolling and sanding each coat, you can apply thicker color
with a gun so you cover in one or two coats, with metallics and clears
the way the paint is laid down has a HUGE impact on what the final job
looks like.
With a metallic applied with roller I would bet you get an interesting
finish because the flakes would likely be in small groups. Clears
wouldn't work because anything that comes off the roller will show in
the clear and the sanding/buffing process can destroy a clear coat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Do the HVLP guns help with overspray/cover with less paint, by any
noticeable amount?

Yes, BUT they also take some practice if you have used an older style
gun. Because they put on more paint in one pass you have to be more
carefull about runs,drips and orange peel from heavy paint.
Once your used to them they are great.

I have a descent old school gun I got from a mechanics
yard sale, plus I have a Badger detail touch up gun and an air brush
(150IL), pretty good stuff in its day. I would prefer to spray than sand a
bunch of coats, I'm tempted to order these:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/ItemDetail....No=TCP%20G7000

I like the metal cups, some of the reviews of he HF guns said the plastic
threads stripped out on the cup, thought maybe the metal cups wouldn't strip
so easily.

I don't have any bondo goodies either, I guess I need a cheese grater type
bondo file and an inline sander.

For the grater I suggest the original sureform tools. Get a flat and
half round profile and maybe a rat tail one if you have any holes to
work around.
Inline sanders vary in quality a LOT, but for most use the lower end
ones work OK. Buy GOOD paper though. The cheap stuff is just that.

It's kind of fun having old autos that I
can learn on and not be afraid to mess up. I've gotten the quarter panel
from flattened out to having a shape that resembles the shape of the
original body, but it isn't pretty.

RogerN



Yeah there is no substitute for actual hands on when it comes to body
work. I started learning as a kid of about 7 from some old school body
knockers.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:11:21 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in
the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN


Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I get
is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying thinner
with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or mineral spirits,
anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and it was the slickest
looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I like how the guy breaks all
the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap thinner, and get results equal or
better than most do with spray. Of course you have to consider that
Rustoleum doesn't have the color availability of the automotive paints, but
it would be fun to try a metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied
with rollers. No overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM
compressor to paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters
would last much longer.

RogerN




Nobody seems to have noticed how many times he sanded the entire car!

That job took at least a man-week.

One of the "best" auto painters in our area - does all the Mercedes,
jag, and other high end stuff is a LOUSY painter, but a real artiste
with the wet sandpaper - - - - - .

Dad painted his '36 dodge sedan with a brush and metalic paint - from
10 feet away you couldn't tell. We brush painted the '52 dodge panel
van with ArmourCoat (Canadian Tire) commercial blue. No colour sanding
or anything - and it looked good from about 15 feet.
Kid brother roller painted his early Corolla 1100 VitaminC Orange -
and it looked like one!!!

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:37:34 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in
the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN



Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I get
is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying thinner
with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or mineral spirits,
anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and it was the slickest
looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I like how the guy breaks all
the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap thinner, and get results equal or
better than most do with spray. Of course you have to consider that
Rustoleum doesn't have the color availability of the automotive paints, but
it would be fun to try a metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied
with rollers. No overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM
compressor to paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters
would last much longer.

RogerN


I painted an El Camino with a roller about 5 years ago. Black truck
bed liner. It started as an innocent enough afternoon project, paint
the bed with bed liner. By the end of the weekend, I'd painted the
entire car with it. Extreme rat rod is what I call it. You can wash
it with gasoline, it doesn't care. It laughs at shopping cart dings.
The stuff is indestructible, requires no cleaning, and screams "better
move, the owner of this vehicle really doesn't care."

Newb

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 13:43:27 -0700, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:37:34 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
snip
Here is the cheapest way to paint your vehicle that I can think of.

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

That's awesome! A rolled on rustoleum paint job that looks good, and in
the
pictures 3 years later it still looks good. If I get enough energy I may
have to get some rollers and paint my whole truck!

RogerN



Did you check out the 3D pictures he has on the site? Those are neat.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I tried to but lost my patients trying to get my eyes out of focus. I get
is maybe 60% there and then my eyes go back to seeing 2 flat pictures.

Years ago (~30) I built a plastic model F-16 and used a slow drying thinner
with Testors enamel, don't remember if it was turpentine or mineral spirits,
anyway the paint flowed out smooth before drying and it was the slickest
looking paint I ever seen on a plastic model. I like how the guy breaks all
the rules, cheap paint, rolls on, cheap thinner, and get results equal or
better than most do with spray. Of course you have to consider that
Rustoleum doesn't have the color availability of the automotive paints, but
it would be fun to try a metallic thinned with mineral spirits and applied
with rollers. No overspray, minimal need to mask, doesn't need ~10+ CFM
compressor to paint, if a respirator was still required it seems the filters
would last much longer.

RogerN


I painted an El Camino with a roller about 5 years ago. Black truck
bed liner. It started as an innocent enough afternoon project, paint
the bed with bed liner. By the end of the weekend, I'd painted the
entire car with it. Extreme rat rod is what I call it. You can wash
it with gasoline, it doesn't care. It laughs at shopping cart dings.
The stuff is indestructible, requires no cleaning, and screams "better
move, the owner of this vehicle really doesn't care."

Newb

I LIKE IT!!!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

wrote:

I painted an El Camino with a roller about 5 years ago. Black truck
bed liner. It started as an innocent enough afternoon project, paint
the bed with bed liner. By the end of the weekend, I'd painted the
entire car with it. Extreme rat rod is what I call it. You can wash
it with gasoline, it doesn't care. It laughs at shopping cart dings.
The stuff is indestructible, requires no cleaning, and screams "better
move, the owner of this vehicle really doesn't care."

Newb



You too!!

I got fed up with the constant dings and rock chips around the bottom of
my Blazer and used black bed liner to paint it up to the trim line.
Originally I had thought about two toning it after repairing the dings.
Instead I just scuffed out the chips, spotted any rust quick and coated
all of it. Less time and looks real good.

--
Steve W.

Currently I'm in Evansville Indiana, the company I work for sent me for
Siemens S7 PLC training.

Anyway, on the way back from supper we saw a Harbor Freight store, I had
never been in one before. We made it to the store at 7:40PM and they close
at 8:00PM so I didn't buy anything yet, but will be going back a time or two
before we leave Friday. My experience with cheap tools is that some are
fine, some are crap, but I've been satisfied with most. If I use a tool
enough that a cheap tool doesn't hold up then I'll get a better quality.

Any recommended Harbor Freight tools to get or avoid for auto body (or
other) metal working, sanding, and painting? I thought there might be some
favorite HF tool recommendations to get while I'm here.

Thanks!

RogerN

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 07:27:52 -0500, RogerN wrote:

Currently I'm in Evansville Indiana, the company I work for sent me for
Siemens S7 PLC training.

Anyway, on the way back from supper we saw a Harbor Freight store, I had
never been in one before. We made it to the store at 7:40PM and they
close at 8:00PM so I didn't buy anything yet, but will be going back a
time or two before we leave Friday. My experience with cheap tools is
that some are fine, some are crap, but I've been satisfied with most.
If I use a tool enough that a cheap tool doesn't hold up then I'll get a
better quality.

Any recommended Harbor Freight tools to get or avoid for auto body (or
other) metal working, sanding, and painting? I thought there might be
some favorite HF tool recommendations to get while I'm here.

A year ago I bought a couple of 24" vernier calipers at HF for $7 each;
closeout items, so might not be available anymore, but worth looking
for. They're not super-duper items for metalworking, but great for
carpentry; aluminum rather than steel, and 1/128" resolution on the
inch scale, 0.05mm on the metric scale, good feel to the slide and
overall good appearance.

Also see if 6" digital calipers are on sale - they usually are
priced about $20 at HF, but often go on sale for $15 or so, and
sometimes $10.

--
jiw

Roger, based on my experience, do not buy anything at Harbor Freight
needing sharp edges or with motors. If you stick to this rule, many
other things that they have will most likely work.

i

James Waldby wrote:

A year ago I bought a couple of 24" vernier calipers at HF for $7 each;
closeout items, so might not be available anymore, but worth looking
for. They're not super-duper items for metalworking, but great for
carpentry; aluminum rather than steel, and 1/128" resolution on the
inch scale, 0.05mm on the metric scale, good feel to the slide and
overall good appearance.

I bought one of those too. It looked good, and I was amazed you could
buy anything like that for less than $10.
I have yet to use it, but it looks good hanging on the pegboard.
Might have to buy another for the house

The one complete failure item from HF, about 20 years ago was a set of
flare wrenches, Pittsburgh brand. Might have improved, since then.
Other than that, I've been satisfied with thier quality to price
ratio.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ignoramus27711" wrote in
message ...
Roger, based on my experience, do not buy anything at Harbor Freight
needing sharp edges or with motors. If you stick to this rule, many
other things that they have will most likely work.

i

On Jun 16, 6:27*am, "RogerN" wrote:
Currently I'm in Evansville Indiana, the company I work for sent me for
Siemens S7 PLC training.

Anyway, on the way back from supper we saw a Harbor Freight store, I had
never been in one before. *We made it to the store at 7:40PM and they close
at 8:00PM so I didn't buy anything yet, but will be going back a time or two
before we leave Friday. *My experience with cheap tools is that some are
fine, some are crap, but I've been satisfied with most. *If I use a tool
enough that a cheap tool doesn't hold up then I'll get a better quality.

Any recommended Harbor Freight tools to get or avoid for auto body (or
other) metal working, sanding, and painting? *I thought there might be some
favorite HF tool recommendations to get while I'm here.

Thanks!

RogerN

Have a set of their dolly-shaped cast iron lumps. They will work, if
you polish them(spare the turd jokes). Same with the body hammer
sets. For once or twice use, they're great, compared with what the
body-supply joints get for their cast iron lumps. Sanding blocks are
sanding blocks.

I use the hell out of my micro die grinders, usually $10-15 on sale.
Ditto the 4 1/2" angle grinders, sound terrible, but stand up to a lot
of abuse. Get the ones with the metal gearbox. Test before leaving
town. The Russian grinding disks for same aren't too bad. The local
store also has De Walt disks, usually outlast the imports by 2-3x.
The chink sandpaper is usually junk. They've had some Finnish stuff
that's been pretty good.

The DA sanders are decent enough when on sale, will suck your tank dry
in a hurry, though. Not the most efficient pneumatic tools around.
PSA sanding discs need to be bought elsewhere. Last ones I got were
yellow and Finnish, got from the local discount tool joint.

The HVLP conversion guns can be a good buy, if on sale, get the
stand(s) if you get them. They also have spare strainers, a cleaning
kit, spare parts kit, extra large aluminum cups, might be the time to
get them if you buy into that. Teflon tape is always a good deal.
Ditto quick-connects. They've got a three-in-one female fitting that
takes all of the most common quick-connect types, might be of some
use. The small touch-up/panel gun is usually pretty cheap and nice to
have a couple kicking around. Same with whip hoses and swivel
fittings. Have a swivel with a throttle valve built-in, that's been
of some use. I have several whip hoses, reserve one exclusively for
painting use, same with regular air hose. Keep the oil out of the
paint guns. Their Goodyear rubber air hose is a good deal on sale.
Buy quick-connects at the same time. I get the steel Ampros that are
in bulk bins, not the chink brass jobbies in the bubble packs.

The digital calipers have been on sale lately, the 6" usually is
$10-15. Not the ones in the bubble packs, though, the ones in the
real boxes are what you want. I usually have a 4" in my pocket when
hitting the hardware store. They have also had a triple-threat
caliper, metric/English/fractional. At one time they had a paint
thickness gauge, the real electronic deal reading in microns, ran like
$80 list. I picked that one up on sale for $50. They occasionally
will come up with some off the wall stuff, you need to pay attention
to what's on the hooks. Were selling technical drafting pens for $2
labeled as precision oilers.

I've used their trailer "docking" aids, basically a pair of yellow
balls on telescoping radio antennas attached to bar magnets. Amazing
how easy it makes hooking up a trailer.

A lot depends on whether you've got the back of a truck that you can
fill or are stuck with what you can fit into your luggage if going by
air. Local stores don't all carry the same stuff, either.

Stan

Any recommendations on where to buy paints? In town we have an O'Reily's,
Autozone, and Auto Pro, but I'm not sure if any of them sell paint. We used
to have a Lincoln Auto Supply that sold DuPont stuff but they closed years
back. Or is there a favorite place to order paints online?

RogerN