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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#81
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 00:48:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Ignoramus23667" wrote in message m... On 2010-04-02, Ed Huntress wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Iggy, I'm amazed by your statement. When was the last time any product in the stores said "Made in the USA"? There is virtually no serious manufacturing left in the States. You don't need statistics to witness this and in point of fact, without seeing US products on the shelves, you have absolutely no justification for believing them. The same thing is happening in Europe and Japan. We have already exported almost all of our manufacturing to the third world to remain competitive in the world market. Don't believe the **** you read....look on the shelves. Steve Take a look at the detailed US manufacturing data (and the trade data, which is another story) and you may be in for a shock, Steve. What you're seeing on shelves is consumer products. They're the bottom end of manufacturing. The US is doing very well in industrial and commercial products, and the overall dollar figures of output keep climbing year after year. Of course, during a recession, everything drops. But go back two years and look at the decades-long trend. I'll pull together some links if you have any trouble finding it. I would like to see some data Ed. Thanks i Ok. First off, total manufacturing output, adjusted for inflation. The gray bands are recessions. If you want to see data preceding 1970, click on "Vintage Series" (ALFRED): http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/IPMAN?cid=3 The Annual Survey of Manufactures goes into great detail, but it involves a lot of paging. There are filters and so on that you can use: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831VS101 This one (the M3 report) is tedious to read, but you can drill down and see how much we're manufacturing in very finely-defined categories. It's the big one. Since it's a drill-down table, you can see broad categories and then finer ones. When I did reports on manufacturing for the trade press, this is the one I used. And if you think this is tedious, you should have seen it in the old days, when one report was one bookshelf full of computer printouts: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831GS101 There are download options for these files. If you want graphs, or want to compare a category output over time, you'll have to fish around for historic tables and create your own graphs. I used to do this frequently. It's a hassle. Here's home base: http://www.census.gov/mcd/ One very interesting thing to look at is the trade data. I'm going to recommend this for a start: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...ease/ft900.pdf Here's the home for that general class of data: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/data/index.html Note that our exports really are not that far below our imports, if you look at them in the same place (the graph does this). When we talk about protecting against imports, we have to wonder who will buy all those exports if we do. The tables in the PDF above show many surprising things. We're exporting as much in many industrial categories as we import. If it wasn't for oil and low-end consumer goods, we'd be pretty close to balance. Enough for now? There's a ton of this stuff available. These links aren't always the quickest to read, but they collectively answer just about any question you might have. But they are Sooo much trouble to read all those funny words 'n thingies.....Can't I just watch Fox News? :- Cheers, John D. (jdslocombatgmail) |
#82
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"David R.Birch" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: Here now! Banjo players are all carefree, happy fellows, like myself. Most of us wouldn't know a politician if we met him; heck, some of us don't even know what color one is :-) There are times that I'd like to smash my TV and computer, buy some fishing rods and a banjo, and go live in a cabin. But I'm hooked. How about we set up a fund to buy James Taylor a banjo? David There must be some cultural reference in there that went over my head. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#83
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: Here now! Banjo players are all carefree, happy fellows, like myself. Most of us wouldn't know a politician if we met him; heck, some of us don't even know what color one is :-) There are times that I'd like to smash my TV and computer, buy some fishing rods and a banjo, and go live in a cabin. But I'm hooked. How about we set up a fund to buy James Taylor a banjo? David There must be some cultural reference in there that went over my head. d8-) "Banjo players are all carefree, happy fellows" Taylor's music reflects his history of severe depression. Can you image "Fire and Rain" done to banjo music? Maybe it would help his music. Probably best to leave aside the "Deliverance" references, though. David |
#84
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"RogerN" wrote in message m... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN So how did you escape all of this, Roger? 'Raised by wolves, were you? Or didn't you go to school long enough for all of that to happen? -- Ed Huntress No, just go to school, think for yourself, and see through the liberal BS. I guess you're just a part of that very elite group, Roger, that has unique insights and the ability to resist all of those pressures to which everyone else falls victim. Your enviable and exemplary insights even give you the authority to cheer and scheme for the demise of those who don't agree with you. What a Christian you are! On the part of believing in the Bible, I found all kinds of liberal attacks on the Bible, looked at arguments for and against, saw the arguments for being proven true through facts, saw the arguments against dissolving due to the same facts. For example, the book of Isaiah was attacked by liberal Bible scholars making claims that it was written by different people and different times, then the complete, or nearly complete, writings of Isaiah were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated, bottom line, the Bible was right .. again, the liberals were wrong .. again. RogerN I'm glad for you that you've found what you're looking for. Just don't try to impose it on the rest of us, Ok? -- Ed Huntress |
#85
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"John" wrote in message ... On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 00:48:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Ignoramus23667" wrote in message om... On 2010-04-02, Ed Huntress wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Iggy, I'm amazed by your statement. When was the last time any product in the stores said "Made in the USA"? There is virtually no serious manufacturing left in the States. You don't need statistics to witness this and in point of fact, without seeing US products on the shelves, you have absolutely no justification for believing them. The same thing is happening in Europe and Japan. We have already exported almost all of our manufacturing to the third world to remain competitive in the world market. Don't believe the **** you read....look on the shelves. Steve Take a look at the detailed US manufacturing data (and the trade data, which is another story) and you may be in for a shock, Steve. What you're seeing on shelves is consumer products. They're the bottom end of manufacturing. The US is doing very well in industrial and commercial products, and the overall dollar figures of output keep climbing year after year. Of course, during a recession, everything drops. But go back two years and look at the decades-long trend. I'll pull together some links if you have any trouble finding it. I would like to see some data Ed. Thanks i Ok. First off, total manufacturing output, adjusted for inflation. The gray bands are recessions. If you want to see data preceding 1970, click on "Vintage Series" (ALFRED): http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/IPMAN?cid=3 The Annual Survey of Manufactures goes into great detail, but it involves a lot of paging. There are filters and so on that you can use: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831VS101 This one (the M3 report) is tedious to read, but you can drill down and see how much we're manufacturing in very finely-defined categories. It's the big one. Since it's a drill-down table, you can see broad categories and then finer ones. When I did reports on manufacturing for the trade press, this is the one I used. And if you think this is tedious, you should have seen it in the old days, when one report was one bookshelf full of computer printouts: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831GS101 There are download options for these files. If you want graphs, or want to compare a category output over time, you'll have to fish around for historic tables and create your own graphs. I used to do this frequently. It's a hassle. Here's home base: http://www.census.gov/mcd/ One very interesting thing to look at is the trade data. I'm going to recommend this for a start: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...ease/ft900.pdf Here's the home for that general class of data: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/data/index.html Note that our exports really are not that far below our imports, if you look at them in the same place (the graph does this). When we talk about protecting against imports, we have to wonder who will buy all those exports if we do. The tables in the PDF above show many surprising things. We're exporting as much in many industrial categories as we import. If it wasn't for oil and low-end consumer goods, we'd be pretty close to balance. Enough for now? There's a ton of this stuff available. These links aren't always the quickest to read, but they collectively answer just about any question you might have. But they are Sooo much trouble to read all those funny words 'n thingies.....Can't I just watch Fox News? You could, and many can, which explains may unfortunate things. g I haven't given a talk on that stuff for a few years but when I do, I boil it all down to graphs: comparisons, trend lines, etc. As I said, it's a lot of work, but it's pretty startling when you see the real thing, in light of the impressions we get from the news. That graph in the first link above, of the US historical manufacturing output, is enough to make many people sit up and scratch their heads. BTW, that "Vintage" ALFRED link is not what I expected -- I should have checked more carefully. They did something weird. ALFRED usually gives you long-term historical results. -- Ed Huntress |
#86
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"David R.Birch" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: "David R.Birch" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: Here now! Banjo players are all carefree, happy fellows, like myself. Most of us wouldn't know a politician if we met him; heck, some of us don't even know what color one is :-) There are times that I'd like to smash my TV and computer, buy some fishing rods and a banjo, and go live in a cabin. But I'm hooked. How about we set up a fund to buy James Taylor a banjo? David There must be some cultural reference in there that went over my head. d8-) "Banjo players are all carefree, happy fellows" Taylor's music reflects his history of severe depression. Can you image "Fire and Rain" done to banjo music? Maybe it would help his music. Oh, Ok. Now I'm with you. Probably best to leave aside the "Deliverance" references, though. David It would be confusing...something about hillbillies with beady, close-set eyes who look like all their cousins. -- Ed Huntress |
#87
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or
about Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:14:42 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:40:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. You should have plenty of free, leftist catgut after the cull... ;-) You know..Id not thought about that...true indeed! Though given the source...think it would ever be able to be tuned? Shor. But think, why do so many of those old time songs sound so whiny? It's the inferior lefty guts their using for strings. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#88
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
On 2010-04-03, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ignoramus23667" wrote in message ... On 2010-04-02, Ed Huntress wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Iggy, I'm amazed by your statement. When was the last time any product in the stores said "Made in the USA"? There is virtually no serious manufacturing left in the States. You don't need statistics to witness this and in point of fact, without seeing US products on the shelves, you have absolutely no justification for believing them. The same thing is happening in Europe and Japan. We have already exported almost all of our manufacturing to the third world to remain competitive in the world market. Don't believe the **** you read....look on the shelves. Steve Take a look at the detailed US manufacturing data (and the trade data, which is another story) and you may be in for a shock, Steve. What you're seeing on shelves is consumer products. They're the bottom end of manufacturing. The US is doing very well in industrial and commercial products, and the overall dollar figures of output keep climbing year after year. Of course, during a recession, everything drops. But go back two years and look at the decades-long trend. I'll pull together some links if you have any trouble finding it. I would like to see some data Ed. Thanks i Ok. First off, total manufacturing output, adjusted for inflation. The gray bands are recessions. If you want to see data preceding 1970, click on "Vintage Series" (ALFRED): http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/IPMAN?cid=3 The Annual Survey of Manufactures goes into great detail, but it involves a lot of paging. There are filters and so on that you can use: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831VS101 This one (the M3 report) is tedious to read, but you can drill down and see how much we're manufacturing in very finely-defined categories. It's the big one. Since it's a drill-down table, you can see broad categories and then finer ones. When I did reports on manufacturing for the trade press, this is the one I used. And if you think this is tedious, you should have seen it in the old days, when one report was one bookshelf full of computer printouts: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831GS101 There are download options for these files. If you want graphs, or want to compare a category output over time, you'll have to fish around for historic tables and create your own graphs. I used to do this frequently. It's a hassle. Here's home base: http://www.census.gov/mcd/ One very interesting thing to look at is the trade data. I'm going to recommend this for a start: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...ease/ft900.pdf Here's the home for that general class of data: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/data/index.html Note that our exports really are not that far below our imports, if you look at them in the same place (the graph does this). When we talk about protecting against imports, we have to wonder who will buy all those exports if we do. The tables in the PDF above show many surprising things. We're exporting as much in many industrial categories as we import. If it wasn't for oil and low-end consumer goods, we'd be pretty close to balance. Enough for now? There's a ton of this stuff available. These links aren't always the quickest to read, but they collectively answer just about any question you might have. Ed, thanks. I am going to fly back home from CA, in an hour, and I downloaded your articles on the laptop to read in-flight. Here's one more piece about how the recession has likely ended: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/bu...my/05econ.html i |
#89
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"Ignoramus31024" wrote in message ... On 2010-04-03, Ed Huntress wrote: "Ignoramus23667" wrote in message ... On 2010-04-02, Ed Huntress wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Iggy, I'm amazed by your statement. When was the last time any product in the stores said "Made in the USA"? There is virtually no serious manufacturing left in the States. You don't need statistics to witness this and in point of fact, without seeing US products on the shelves, you have absolutely no justification for believing them. The same thing is happening in Europe and Japan. We have already exported almost all of our manufacturing to the third world to remain competitive in the world market. Don't believe the **** you read....look on the shelves. Steve Take a look at the detailed US manufacturing data (and the trade data, which is another story) and you may be in for a shock, Steve. What you're seeing on shelves is consumer products. They're the bottom end of manufacturing. The US is doing very well in industrial and commercial products, and the overall dollar figures of output keep climbing year after year. Of course, during a recession, everything drops. But go back two years and look at the decades-long trend. I'll pull together some links if you have any trouble finding it. I would like to see some data Ed. Thanks i Ok. First off, total manufacturing output, adjusted for inflation. The gray bands are recessions. If you want to see data preceding 1970, click on "Vintage Series" (ALFRED): http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/IPMAN?cid=3 The Annual Survey of Manufactures goes into great detail, but it involves a lot of paging. There are filters and so on that you can use: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831VS101 This one (the M3 report) is tedious to read, but you can drill down and see how much we're manufacturing in very finely-defined categories. It's the big one. Since it's a drill-down table, you can see broad categories and then finer ones. When I did reports on manufacturing for the trade press, this is the one I used. And if you think this is tedious, you should have seen it in the old days, when one report was one bookshelf full of computer printouts: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...me=AM0831GS101 There are download options for these files. If you want graphs, or want to compare a category output over time, you'll have to fish around for historic tables and create your own graphs. I used to do this frequently. It's a hassle. Here's home base: http://www.census.gov/mcd/ One very interesting thing to look at is the trade data. I'm going to recommend this for a start: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...ease/ft900.pdf Here's the home for that general class of data: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/data/index.html Note that our exports really are not that far below our imports, if you look at them in the same place (the graph does this). When we talk about protecting against imports, we have to wonder who will buy all those exports if we do. The tables in the PDF above show many surprising things. We're exporting as much in many industrial categories as we import. If it wasn't for oil and low-end consumer goods, we'd be pretty close to balance. Enough for now? There's a ton of this stuff available. These links aren't always the quickest to read, but they collectively answer just about any question you might have. Ed, thanks. I am going to fly back home from CA, in an hour, and I downloaded your articles on the laptop to read in-flight. Here's one more piece about how the recession has likely ended: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/bu...my/05econ.html i Enjoy your data-crunching. g I hope Greenspan is right. As I've mentioned before, I'm always behind the curve on optimism regarding job-creation because (probably) I don't have a full, imaginative grasp of how jobs grow in this free-for-all economy of ours. It always amazes me, but not because I don't believe in the business cycle. It's just a matter of wondering where they're going to come from. Have a good flight. -- Ed Huntress |
#90
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN So how did you escape all of this, Roger? 'Raised by wolves, were you? Or didn't you go to school long enough for all of that to happen? -- Ed Huntress No, just go to school, think for yourself, and see through the liberal BS. I guess you're just a part of that very elite group, Roger, that has unique insights and the ability to resist all of those pressures to which everyone else falls victim. Your enviable and exemplary insights even give you the authority to cheer and scheme for the demise of those who don't agree with you. What a Christian you are! Nope, there are many conservatives even thought the liberal bias in our newspapers, TV, and educational system. Why are nearly 50% conservatives when nearly 95% of what we see, hear, read, and get taught is liberalism? It wasn't me that decided I knew more at age 13 than all the people that believe in God. On the part of believing in the Bible, I found all kinds of liberal attacks on the Bible, looked at arguments for and against, saw the arguments for being proven true through facts, saw the arguments against dissolving due to the same facts. For example, the book of Isaiah was attacked by liberal Bible scholars making claims that it was written by different people and different times, then the complete, or nearly complete, writings of Isaiah were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated, bottom line, the Bible was right .. again, the liberals were wrong .. again. RogerN I'm glad for you that you've found what you're looking for. Just don't try to impose it on the rest of us, Ok? -- Ed Huntress Like liberalism is imposed on everyone that watches TV, goes to school, or reads a newspaper? Also Ed, don't take anything I say about "Liberals" personally, you're not a very good liberal, you even seem to think it's OK to own a gun. You infidel! :-) Also I think you know I sometimes just try to stir the hornets nest and I don't always put a smilie to indicate I'm joking, it's easy to have a poker face when typing messages though often I'm laughing when I press send. RogerN |
#91
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
On 4/3/2010 9:15 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Gunner wrote in message ... On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 04:23:29 +0700, wrote: On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:13:37 -0400, "Ed Huntress" wrote: wrote in message ... "John R. wrote in message ... Ignoramus23298 wrote: On 2010-04-01, wrote: The Bush policies are finally starting to yield positive results. Of course, BHO's lackeys won't be giving Bush credit. Recall the timeline of the events. The crisis hit us in the late September of 2008, on the eights year of Bush presidency. The crisis had been in the works for nearly two years at that point with Congress passing the first of several spending measures on January 25th (?) 2008. Sounds about right, the crisis hit when the Democrats won big in the election in 2006 and took a turn for the worse when Obama pulled ahead in the polls around Sept 2008. No wonder the Bible says the "Fool" has said there is no God, you Atheists prove the Bible correct time after time and you don't even know it! RogerN Roger, don't be an idiot. The Republicans blocked legislation 104 times in the last Congress -- and that was counted before it was over. There were no big economic policies enacted during that time, and none at all that didn't have Republican support. So please quit playing your banjo and take a look at what really happened. Here now! Banjo players are all carefree, happy fellows, like myself. Most of us wouldn't know a politician if we met him; heck, some of us don't even know what color one is :-) RogerN doesn't qualify. Not even "air banjo". Cheers, John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN Is that what happened to you when you were in school, Roger? Because you give the impression that none of that has happened to you. Or did you not attend school? In which case I'm wondering how you know what they are teaching there if you weren't there. Hawke |
#92
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 15:58:57 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN So how did you escape all of this, Roger? 'Raised by wolves, were you? Or didn't you go to school long enough for all of that to happen? -- Ed Huntress No, just go to school, think for yourself, and see through the liberal BS. I guess you're just a part of that very elite group, Roger, that has unique insights and the ability to resist all of those pressures to which everyone else falls victim. Your enviable and exemplary insights even give you the authority to cheer and scheme for the demise of those who don't agree with you. What a Christian you are! Nope, there are many conservatives even thought the liberal bias in our newspapers, TV, and educational system. Why are nearly 50% conservatives when nearly 95% of what we see, hear, read, and get taught is liberalism? It wasn't me that decided I knew more at age 13 than all the people that believe in God. On the part of believing in the Bible, I found all kinds of liberal attacks on the Bible, looked at arguments for and against, saw the arguments for being proven true through facts, saw the arguments against dissolving due to the same facts. For example, the book of Isaiah was attacked by liberal Bible scholars making claims that it was written by different people and different times, then the complete, or nearly complete, writings of Isaiah were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated, bottom line, the Bible was right .. again, the liberals were wrong .. again. RogerN I'm glad for you that you've found what you're looking for. Just don't try to impose it on the rest of us, Ok? -- Ed Huntress Like liberalism is imposed on everyone that watches TV, goes to school, or reads a newspaper? Also Ed, don't take anything I say about "Liberals" personally, you're not a very good liberal, you even seem to think it's OK to own a gun. You infidel! :-) Also I think you know I sometimes just try to stir the hornets nest and I don't always put a smilie to indicate I'm joking, it's easy to have a poker face when typing messages though often I'm laughing when I press send. RogerN Indeed. VBG Gunner "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
#93
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 18:00:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: So, Ned. What do you hear? Are they saying that expansion is from Obama's fabulous job so far, or is everyone saying "Well, it doesn't look as if he's going to take the country down this year, let's invest and expand for awhile." I can honestly say it's never come up. All the folks I choose to deal with are down to earth, pragmatic engineers or techs -- I come here for my dose of wacky economic theory. -- Ned Simmons |
#94
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"RogerN" wrote in message
m... "Jeff R." wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. ... RogerN Kind'a like fundie christians, huh? -- JR ... Tearing down a solid foundation for a belief and then building a weaker one, and then believing the weaker foundation is true is how liberals change the facts of history over time. Something Christians would never do, huh? Another example, liberals claim the New Testament wasn't written until hundreds of years after the fact. Roger, Roger. So... when were the gospels written? How old were the authors at the time? How old were they at the time of Jesus? The bottom line difference between a liberal and a fundie Christian is the Christian believes truth on a solid foundation, the liberal believes in destroying solid foundations and building weaker ones to believe in. What's it been, a couple hundred years since slavery in the USA? And already the liberal Democrats have conveniently forgot that they were the ones wanting slavery. Ummm... Roger, don't forget that the warrant for slavery is in the bible, and the brave individuals - christians or not - who opposed it did so in the face of biblical injunction as well as majority popular opinion. Today the issue is killing babies, Is that the only issue? Really? You do realise, don't you, that your god kills millions of times more babies than do any actual living people. How do *you* get to choose what *the* issue is? What about inner-city violence? What about corrupt politicians? What about global poverty? What about AIDS in Africa? What about care of the elderly? How come you get to choose what the issue is? For a liberal, truth is what they want it to be, for others, the truth is the truth. You forgot the capital "T". RogerN So, Roger, could you explain again how it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" when non-christians raise their family according to their own values, yet it's "building on 'solid foundations'" when a christian does the same thing? Just wondering... -- Jeff R. |
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"Jeff R." wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... "Jeff R." wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. ... RogerN Kind'a like fundie christians, huh? -- JR ... Tearing down a solid foundation for a belief and then building a weaker one, and then believing the weaker foundation is true is how liberals change the facts of history over time. Something Christians would never do, huh? Actually many follow and believe somewhat blindly. Another example, liberals claim the New Testament wasn't written until hundreds of years after the fact. Roger, Roger. So... when were the gospels written? How old were the authors at the time? How old were they at the time of Jesus? There's pretty good evidence that they were written before the destruction on the temple in 70AD. For one, they mention Jesus' telling that the temple would be destroyed but there is no mention that it was fulfilled in 70AD. If any new testament writings were from a later date it would have been beneficial to include the destruction of the temple in 70AD and the disciples death for their faith. Also, it would have been beneficial to leave out the any indication that the disciples thought Jesus would return in their lifetime. That would indicate that the new testament writings were within 40 years of Christs resurrection. Also, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he mentions that there were over 500 eye witnesses that saw Jesus after the resurrection and many were still alive at the time of the writing, indicating that the readers could find them and talk to the if they wanted. The bottom line difference between a liberal and a fundie Christian is the Christian believes truth on a solid foundation, the liberal believes in destroying solid foundations and building weaker ones to believe in. What's it been, a couple hundred years since slavery in the USA? And already the liberal Democrats have conveniently forgot that they were the ones wanting slavery. Ummm... Roger, don't forget that the warrant for slavery is in the bible, and the brave individuals - christians or not - who opposed it did so in the face of biblical injunction as well as majority popular opinion. Today the issue is killing babies, Is that the only issue? No, but it's a dividing issue between Democrats and Republicans just like slavery was years ago, and the Democrats were on the wrong side of the issue. Really? You do realise, don't you, that your god kills millions of times more babies than do any actual living people. How do *you* get to choose what *the* issue is? What about inner-city violence? What about corrupt politicians? What about global poverty? What about AIDS in Africa? What about care of the elderly? How come you get to choose what the issue is? Like I answered above, that certainly isn't the only issue. For a liberal, truth is what they want it to be, for others, the truth is the truth. You forgot the capital "T". RogerN So, Roger, could you explain again how it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" when non-christians raise their family according to their own values, yet it's "building on 'solid foundations'" when a christian does the same thing? Just wondering... -- Jeff R. For many there may not be a lot of difference, they don't teach the solid foundation of the scriptures and many lose their faith when they get older, largely due to the teachings of liberals. They believe the liberals arguments instead of looking up the counter arguments. There is a former Atheist that was an investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune (IIRC) that used his investigative reporting skills on Christianity. Now he writes books and has debates between the most outspoken Atheists and Christians, many Atheists come to these debates and become Christians. They had never heard the other side of the argument before. RogerN |
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or about Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:14:42 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:40:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. You should have plenty of free, leftist catgut after the cull... ;-) You know..Id not thought about that...true indeed! Though given the source...think it would ever be able to be tuned? Shor. But think, why do so many of those old time songs sound so whiny? It's the inferior lefty guts their using for strings. You could always go into the tennis racket racket. |
#97
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"RogerN" wrote in message
m... There's pretty good evidence that they were written before the destruction on the temple in 70AD. For one, they mention Jesus' telling that the temple would be destroyed but there is no mention that it was fulfilled in 70AD. If any new testament writings were from a later date it would have been beneficial to include the destruction of the temple in 70AD and the disciples death for their faith. That's a pretty shaky foundation upon which to base your argument. You argue against the presence of a non-existent omission, as if that proves (or even "suggests") your chronology. Skaky indeed, considering the hundreds of acknowledged extant contradictions already conceded. ...Also, it would have been beneficial to leave out the any indication that the disciples thought Jesus would return in their lifetime. "Beneficial" perhaps, but nowhere near solid foundations for evidence. It would have been (immensely) beneficial if the authors of the gospels had simply annotated them as having been written "in the xxxth year of our lord...", yet they chose (?) not to. How many books do you own which do not have the year they were written clearly indicated at the front? This is a minor point, granted, but arguably much more significant than the "temple" of the "return" arguments you advance. ...That would indicate that the new testament writings were within 40 years of Christs resurrection. No - it would only suggest that as a possibility. No more. ... Also, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he mentions that there were over 500 eye witnesses that saw Jesus after the resurrection and many were still alive at the time of the writing, indicating that the readers could find them and talk to the if they wanted. Roger, that's one account claiming there were 500, not 500 verifying it independently. There is a difference. The bottom line difference between a liberal and a fundie Christian is the Christian believes truth on a solid foundation, the liberal believes in destroying solid foundations and building weaker ones to believe in. Extraordinary. You have evidence for this broad, sweeping statement? What's it been, a couple hundred years since slavery in the USA? And already the liberal Democrats have conveniently forgot that they were the ones wanting slavery. Ummm... Roger, don't forget that the warrant for slavery is in the bible, and the brave individuals - christians or not - who opposed it did so in the face of biblical injunction as well as majority popular opinion. Today the issue is killing babies, Is that the only issue? No, but it's a dividing issue between Democrats and Republicans just like slavery was years ago, and the Democrats were on the wrong side of the issue. If I read you correctly, they were the ones who supported the biblical warrant. Don't forget that the brave folk who opposed slavery were also opposing instructions given to them in the bible. So, Roger, could you explain again how it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" when non-christians raise their family according to their own values, yet it's "building on 'solid foundations'" when a christian does the same thing? Just wondering... -- Jeff R. For many there may not be a lot of difference, they don't teach the solid foundation of the scriptures Roger - the scriptures are *your* myths and legends - not verified facts. The ancient Greeks taught Zeus and Mt Olympus. Your god and your legends are no different - just a product of our fertile imagination. ...and many lose their faith when they get older, You say that like its a *bad* thing! largely due to the teachings of liberals. They believe the liberals arguments instead of looking up the counter arguments. There is a former Atheist that was an investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune (IIRC) that used his investigative reporting skills on Christianity. Now he writes books and has debates between the most outspoken Atheists and Christians, many Atheists come to these debates and become Christians. They had never heard the other side of the argument before. Oh pffftphttt! I see your anecdote and raise you one. Which number is currently increasing: believers or non-believers? (Not that a majority indicates truth, mind you) RogerN Keep plugging away, Roger. I hope you've had a pleasant holiday. -- Jeff R. |
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"Jeff R." wrote in message ... snip-- So, Roger, could you explain again how it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" when non-christians raise their family according to their own values, yet it's "building on 'solid foundations'" when a christian does the same thing? Just wondering... -- Jeff R. Yes, Roger.. I'm wondering, too. Harold |
#99
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
Let the Record show that "Chief Egalitarian" on
or about Sun, 4 Apr 2010 20:55:10 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: "pyotr filipivich" wrote: Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or about Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:14:42 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:40:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. You should have plenty of free, leftist catgut after the cull... ;-) You know..Id not thought about that...true indeed! Though given the source...think it would ever be able to be tuned? Shor. But think, why do so many of those old time songs sound so whiny? It's the inferior lefty guts their using for strings. You could always go into the tennis racket racket. I think I'd go for the racket ball racket racket. Smaller rackets, so seeing as how the lefties seem to have no guts, it might be more easily one. But the lefties do seem a bit high strung. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#100
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 08:31:58 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN So how did you escape all of this, Roger? 'Raised by wolves, were you? Or didn't you go to school long enough for all of that to happen? -- Ed Huntress No, just go to school, think for yourself, and see through the liberal BS. On the part of believing in the Bible, I found all kinds of liberal attacks on the Bible, looked at arguments for and against, saw the arguments for being proven true through facts, saw the arguments against dissolving due to the same facts. For example, the book of Isaiah was attacked by liberal Bible scholars making claims that it was written by different people and different times, then the complete, or nearly complete, writings of Isaiah were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated, bottom line, the Bible was right .. again, the liberals were wrong .. again. RogerN Roger, I hate to say it but your rationale seem to leap about with the dexterity if a kangaroo. In another post you stated that "God had people write down what happened" and now you say that Liberals claim that it was written by several people. Where is the disagreement? God said WRITE and obviously it happened, we have the book as proof. Whether it was written by one man or a million monkeys with a million IBM selectrics, if it was done at the express direction of God then one can only assume that it met with whatever criteria that he/she/it specified. There is one problem though if you are going to refer to the "Word of God". the Moslems have a book that they say was written, actually dictated, by the Angel Gabriel at the express direction of God. and since it was the same God, the God of Abraham, it must be equally as valid as the Jewish books. Cheers, John D. (jdslocombatgmail) |
#101
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"RogerN" wrote in message m... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN So how did you escape all of this, Roger? 'Raised by wolves, were you? Or didn't you go to school long enough for all of that to happen? -- Ed Huntress No, just go to school, think for yourself, and see through the liberal BS. I guess you're just a part of that very elite group, Roger, that has unique insights and the ability to resist all of those pressures to which everyone else falls victim. Your enviable and exemplary insights even give you the authority to cheer and scheme for the demise of those who don't agree with you. What a Christian you are! Nope, there are many conservatives even thought the liberal bias in our newspapers, TV, and educational system. Why are nearly 50% conservatives when nearly 95% of what we see, hear, read, and get taught is liberalism? It wasn't me that decided I knew more at age 13 than all the people that believe in God. This is the most conservative country in the developed world, Roger. And I can hardly imagine what a liberal is doing in southern Illinois. g I have to question your perspective, and what kind of strawman you've constructed and labelled "liberal." On the part of believing in the Bible, I found all kinds of liberal attacks on the Bible, looked at arguments for and against, saw the arguments for being proven true through facts, saw the arguments against dissolving due to the same facts. For example, the book of Isaiah was attacked by liberal Bible scholars making claims that it was written by different people and different times, then the complete, or nearly complete, writings of Isaiah were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated, bottom line, the Bible was right .. again, the liberals were wrong .. again. RogerN I'm glad for you that you've found what you're looking for. Just don't try to impose it on the rest of us, Ok? -- Ed Huntress Like liberalism is imposed on everyone that watches TV, goes to school, or reads a newspaper? Also Ed, don't take anything I say about "Liberals" personally, you're not a very good liberal, you even seem to think it's OK to own a gun. You infidel! :-) Also I think you know I sometimes just try to stir the hornets nest and I don't always put a smilie to indicate I'm joking, it's easy to have a poker face when typing messages though often I'm laughing when I press send. Yeah, I recognize that. That's why I can't get angry with you. I don't defend liberalism because I'm a liberal, as you've correctly identified. By any reasonable perspective, my overall position on business and politics is centrist; on economics it's somewhat conservative; and on social issues it varies -- though mostly liberal. But I often defend liberals because I believe their sentiments and motivations are often admirable. By contrast, too many right-wingers are morally bankrupt, near-sociopaths. The real liberals are mostly just silly. Seriously, the cartoonish ideas of liberalism we read on this NG are beyond stupid. Some here have just built strawmen on which to blame of their own failings and discontent. If you need someone to blame, to excuse yourself for not being a success, it seems, liberals are the all-purpose goat. So I have to chuckle when you say that liberalism is "imposed" on you. You don't seem imposed upon, Roger. Neither does anyone else here. -- Ed Huntress |
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"Jeff R." wrote in message u... "RogerN" wrote in message m... There's pretty good evidence that they were written before the destruction on the temple in 70AD. For one, they mention Jesus' telling that the temple would be destroyed but there is no mention that it was fulfilled in 70AD. If any new testament writings were from a later date it would have been beneficial to include the destruction of the temple in 70AD and the disciples death for their faith. That's a pretty shaky foundation upon which to base your argument. You argue against the presence of a non-existent omission, as if that proves (or even "suggests") your chronology. Skaky indeed, considering the hundreds of acknowledged extant contradictions already conceded. ...Also, it would have been beneficial to leave out the any indication that the disciples thought Jesus would return in their lifetime. "Beneficial" perhaps, but nowhere near solid foundations for evidence. But is someones claim from 2000 years later a more solid foundation? It would have been (immensely) beneficial if the authors of the gospels had simply annotated them as having been written "in the xxxth year of our lord...", yet they chose (?) not to. How many books do you own which do not have the year they were written clearly indicated at the front? This is a minor point, granted, but arguably much more significant than the "temple" of the "return" arguments you advance. How? Anyone could put any date they wanted to on it. Writing a date on it wouldn't have it accepted by anyone that doesn't accept it otherwise IMHO. ...That would indicate that the new testament writings were within 40 years of Christs resurrection. No - it would only suggest that as a possibility. No more. A possibility based on sound reasoning in contrast to liberal claims based on unbelief. ... Also, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he mentions that there were over 500 eye witnesses that saw Jesus after the resurrection and many were still alive at the time of the writing, indicating that the readers could find them and talk to the if they wanted. Roger, that's one account claiming there were 500, not 500 verifying it independently. There is a difference. Yes, but the reader in that day could have found those that were still alive and verified that there were indeed 500 eye witnesses. The bottom line difference between a liberal and a fundie Christian is the Christian believes truth on a solid foundation, the liberal believes in destroying solid foundations and building weaker ones to believe in. Extraordinary. You have evidence for this broad, sweeping statement? At least as much evidence as the Liberal Bible Scholars do for what they teach. What's it been, a couple hundred years since slavery in the USA? And already the liberal Democrats have conveniently forgot that they were the ones wanting slavery. Ummm... Roger, don't forget that the warrant for slavery is in the bible, and the brave individuals - christians or not - who opposed it did so in the face of biblical injunction as well as majority popular opinion. Today the issue is killing babies, Is that the only issue? No, but it's a dividing issue between Democrats and Republicans just like slavery was years ago, and the Democrats were on the wrong side of the issue. If I read you correctly, they were the ones who supported the biblical warrant. Don't forget that the brave folk who opposed slavery were also opposing instructions given to them in the bible. The Bible instructs on treatment of a slave but that does not necessarily mean God is pro slavery. Today we still have slavery but just a different form of it. Back then a slave worked and in return got food and shelter, I work so that I can have food and shelter. Some work and can barely afford food and shelter. If a slave refused to do his work he would get punished, if an employee refuses to do their work they get fired and are punished by not getting the money they need for their food and shelter. So, Roger, could you explain again how it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" when non-christians raise their family according to their own values, yet it's "building on 'solid foundations'" when a christian does the same thing? Just wondering... -- Jeff R. For many there may not be a lot of difference, they don't teach the solid foundation of the scriptures Roger - the scriptures are *your* myths and legends - not verified facts. The ancient Greeks taught Zeus and Mt Olympus. Your god and your legends are no different - just a product of our fertile imagination. Ahh, there's the liberalism, that's the kind of stuff they teach that is absolutely 100% false. The true God answered when he was called upon as recorded in the Bible and that God does not change, he still answers today. You can trace this through the Bible, Old Testament, New Testament, the Acts of the Apostles, and right up to modern times. In John 14, vs 11-13 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. So, if what Jesus is saying is true, then those who has faith in him are supposed to be able to do miracles, just like he did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWGlkox7qSw Have you ever heard in the Bible that God gave the people a pillar of light to follow through the desert? Here's a book of a man's testimony that was led out of then communist Romania by following a pillar of light sent by God. http://plainviewfarm.tripod.com/WIL1-0.html ...and many lose their faith when they get older, You say that like its a *bad* thing! Yes, being eternally separated from your Heavenly Father that loves you because you believed a lie is a bad thing. largely due to the teachings of liberals. They believe the liberals arguments instead of looking up the counter arguments. There is a former Atheist that was an investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune (IIRC) that used his investigative reporting skills on Christianity. Now he writes books and has debates between the most outspoken Atheists and Christians, many Atheists come to these debates and become Christians. They had never heard the other side of the argument before. Oh pffftphttt! I see your anecdote and raise you one. Which number is currently increasing: believers or non-believers? (Not that a majority indicates truth, mind you) I'm sure it's non-believers because the Bible said it would happen, the Bible also says liberalism and homosexuality would increase in the end times. RogerN Keep plugging away, Roger. I hope you've had a pleasant holiday. -- Jeff R. RogerN |
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"John" wrote in message ... On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 08:31:58 -0500, "RogerN" wrote: "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip John D. (jdslocombatgmail) Oddly enough..Im a banjo player as well. Yet the leftwing fringe kook extremists here think that Im some sort of rightwing fanatic. I simply calls em like I see em. Gunner The way it works is you have to go to school long enough to be indoctrinated with liberalism. When they brainwash you enough to fit the mold of a liberal then they tell you that you are thinking for yourself. If you have any opinion that disagrees with modern liberalism as taught in schools, then you are not thinking for yourself. Liberals think for themselves and give the indoctrinated cookie cutter answer, and anyone that comes up with their own answer isn't thinking for themselves. RogerN So how did you escape all of this, Roger? 'Raised by wolves, were you? Or didn't you go to school long enough for all of that to happen? -- Ed Huntress No, just go to school, think for yourself, and see through the liberal BS. On the part of believing in the Bible, I found all kinds of liberal attacks on the Bible, looked at arguments for and against, saw the arguments for being proven true through facts, saw the arguments against dissolving due to the same facts. For example, the book of Isaiah was attacked by liberal Bible scholars making claims that it was written by different people and different times, then the complete, or nearly complete, writings of Isaiah were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated, bottom line, the Bible was right .. again, the liberals were wrong .. again. RogerN Roger, I hate to say it but your rationale seem to leap about with the dexterity if a kangaroo. In another post you stated that "God had people write down what happened" and now you say that Liberals claim that it was written by several people. Some liberal Bible scholars had claims that the book of Isaiah wasn't written by Isaiah. They claimed that part was written by one author and another part was written years later by someone else. So, I guess it wasn't written by Isaiah, it was written by another man named Isaiah. But the Bible, the 66 books that make up the Bible, were written by different people over time. To be clear, I'm not saying that every book was written by a different person. Where is the disagreement? God said WRITE and obviously it happened, we have the book as proof. Whether it was written by one man or a million monkeys with a million IBM selectrics, if it was done at the express direction of God then one can only assume that it met with whatever criteria that he/she/it specified. There is one problem though if you are going to refer to the "Word of God". the Moslems have a book that they say was written, actually dictated, by the Angel Gabriel at the express direction of God. and since it was the same God, the God of Abraham, it must be equally as valid as the Jewish books. Cheers, John D. (jdslocombatgmail) The Muslims book claims that Jesus was a great prophet but that he did not die and rise from the Dead. Jesus told that he would die and would rise from the dead. So, if Jesus didn't die and rise from the dead then how could he be a great prophet as the Muslims claim? If Jesus did actually die and rise from the dead then he would qualify to be a great prophet but then the Muslims book would be wrong. Either way, Jesus could not have been a great prophet and a false prophet both. RogerN |
#104
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Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
"RogerN" wrote in
m: The Bible instructs on treatment of a slave but that does not necessarily mean God is pro slavery. Today we still have slavery but just a different form of it. Back then a slave worked and in return got food and shelter, I work so that I can have food and shelter. Some work and can barely afford food and shelter. If a slave refused to do his work he would get punished, if an employee refuses to do their work they get fired and are punished by not getting the money they need for their food and shelter. Why don't you go to Nigeria and buy yourself a couple of REAL slaves? Chattel slavery is still practiced in many parts of the world TODAY and this practice is unlikely to stopped anytime soon. Your complaint is the same as the slaves' that were freed by the Constitutional Amendment. (The Emancipation Proclamation had no effect upon the status of the many slaves held in Union States.) They had been fed, clothed, housed, and doctored 12 months out of the year in return for 6-9 months work and, suddenly, they found themselves having to provide for themselves by working 12 months out of each year. A giant difference between the Covenant's rules for slave keeping and today's employment rules is that an employee can always quit a job and go elsewhere whereas a male slave was to be given a ONE-TIME option to leave after 7 years of servitude. This choice did NOT enable him to take with him any wife that the owner had provided him or any children that he might have sired. If the slave chose freedom then he was remitted and sent on his way. If the slave chose to stay then he remained a slave for life. |
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