Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. Sorta annoying for the
people using my irc server. Strange thing is my UPS log doesn't show any issues other
than the every night a less than a second power interruption around 2:15 am.

I wonder if that hefty 3ga aluminum wire they run though the woods to my house has
anything to do with it. It has had a few trees dropped on it during storms, might not be
3ga anymore since it does seem to hang low in places.

Anyone have a lead to an inexpensive online ups? The offline one works fine with the rest
of the stuff. It doesn't have to be very big, only need to keep an 18 watt tranformer up.


Wes


--

The only thing Obama has fixed is Carter's reputation.

Wes wrote:

Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. Sorta annoying for the
people using my irc server. Strange thing is my UPS log doesn't show any issues other
than the every night a less than a second power interruption around 2:15 am.

I wonder if that hefty 3ga aluminum wire they run though the woods to my house has
anything to do with it. It has had a few trees dropped on it during storms, might not be
3ga anymore since it does seem to hang low in places.

Anyone have a lead to an inexpensive online ups? The offline one works fine with the rest
of the stuff. It doesn't have to be very big, only need to keep an 18 watt tranformer up.

Wes

Do a DC side UPS for 12V stuff like the modem. Battery charger and
battery really, since all the devices taking 12V have their own
regulators.

"Pete C." wrote:

Do a DC side UPS for 12V stuff like the modem. Battery charger and
battery really, since all the devices taking 12V have their own
regulators.


Darn thing uses 18 vac.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Dec 27, 6:34*pm, Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. *Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. *Sorta annoying for the
people using my irc server. *Strange thing is my UPS log doesn't show any issues other
than the every night a less than a second power interruption around 2:15 am.

I wonder if that hefty 3ga aluminum wire they run though the woods to my house has
anything to do with it. *It has had a few trees dropped on it during storms, might not be
3ga anymore since it does seem to hang low in places.

Anyone have a lead to an inexpensive online ups? *The offline one works fine with the rest
of the stuff. *It doesn't have to be very big, only need to keep an 18 watt tranformer up.

Wes


Sounds like what you need is a power line filter on your lathe. Had
the same problem when I'd fire up the solid-state speed controller on
my little 7x, UPS on the computer would go nuts from the hash. I got
a line filter module and constructed a box with it in it plus suitable
line cord in and outlet out, problem solved. I got the filter module
from the local ham and surplus store, now defunct. I preferred to
filter out the interference at the source. 3HP might be tough to find
a suitable filter for, though. Check the usual suppliers, Mouser,
Digi-Key, maybe Allied. You might see what can be had on the surplus
market, Herbach and Rademan used to carry a lot of electromechanical
stuff.

APS has some smallish UPS units and filters, I picked up one at the
now-defunct Circuit City for about $50, looks like a somewhat
oversized power strip. Works well enough on the satellite box and TV
monitor. Most of the office supply joints carry that line and that
size. Or try www.microcenter.com.

Stan

Wes wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Do a DC side UPS for 12V stuff like the modem. Battery charger and
battery really, since all the devices taking 12V have their own
regulators.

Darn thing uses 18 vac.

Wes

Yuck. Open the modem, find the output after the regulator and add a
hefty capacitor so it can ride through the small glitch.

Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. Sorta annoying for the

examine your ground and neutrals.

All that (telecom) equipment is alleged to be isolated, but good luck
finding top qualiy components in a DSL modem.

floating voltage on neutral can really screw with telecom equipment. An
isolation transformer may help if used to run the modem.

seach for power conditioner and powervar or oneac. They're really
expensive new, and really cheap used, especially for small ones like used
to run a cash register.

Throwing bogus chinese UPSes at the problem will cost more.

"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

What did you do, turn it around? snerk........

Steve g Isn't it nice when a plan comes together? Or you get a heavy
piece of "stuff" home and find out it ACTUALLY WORKS!

Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. Sorta annoying for the
people using my irc server. Strange thing is my UPS log doesn't show any issues other
than the every night a less than a second power interruption around 2:15 am.

DSL works with incredibly small signals, pumping hundreds of KHz to over
1 MHz through miles of twisted pair is a complete miracle to begin with.
So, it is most likely electrical noise generated by the contactors, etc.
that is your problem, and not actually a power dip. You may need to
check grounding of the lathe, or possibly add power line filters to the
lathe, RPC or whatever, to get rid of it.

Are you sure the modem actually reboots, or does it just lose sync
with the DSLAM and have to re-sync with it? (That probably looks a lot
the same from the blinking lights.)

Jon

"Steve B" wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

What did you do, turn it around? snerk........




Steve g Isn't it nice when a plan comes together? Or you get a heavy
piece of "stuff" home and find out it ACTUALLY WORKS!


The lathe needed a bit of work. Webpage should work.
http://wess.freeshell.org/clausing/Clausing.html


Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Jon Elson wrote:

Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. Sorta annoying for the
people using my irc server. Strange thing is my UPS log doesn't show any issues other
than the every night a less than a second power interruption around 2:15 am.

DSL works with incredibly small signals, pumping hundreds of KHz to over
1 MHz through miles of twisted pair is a complete miracle to begin with.
So, it is most likely electrical noise generated by the contactors, etc.
that is your problem, and not actually a power dip. You may need to
check grounding of the lathe, or possibly add power line filters to the
lathe, RPC or whatever, to get rid of it.

Are you sure the modem actually reboots, or does it just lose sync
with the DSLAM and have to re-sync with it? (That probably looks a lot
the same from the blinking lights.)

I shouldn't have said reboots. It seems to break connection since I lose everyone
connected to my irc server.

One of these days when uncle is over to use the lathe, I'll have him start and stop it
while I'm inside watching the lights.

I went outside with my meter intending to monitor line voltage using the min/max function
while I started up rpc and then lathe. I also had my laptop out there so I could monitor
the irc server. Got sidelined with installing shelving and mounting a baseboard heater.

I do have 242 volts unloaded and turning on a 1500 watt 240v baseboard only dropped the
voltage a couple tenths.

The dsl modem in the house was being powered by 121 volts at the time I checked and is
pluggged into a Isobar 6 that is suppled by an off line ups.

Tomorrow, I'll check line voltage at the dsl modem while powering up the lathe. My fluke
has that min max function. I'd do it right now but I'm not heading back out into the
winter storm tonight to get to the shop.

I'll keep what you said in mind. I have a very open mind when troubleshooting electrical
issues.

Thanks,

Wes

Wes wrote in
:


The dsl modem in the house was being powered by 121 volts at the time
I checked and is pluggged into a Isobar 6 that is suppled by an off
line ups.

I have read some cautions to having a quality surge suppressor connected to
the output of a UPS. Good suppressors have noise filtering circuits that
could be severely taxed by the spikes and DC components of a non "pure or
true" sine wave UPS output.
I checked the manual for the Isobar and it doesn't have any UPS related
warning but for the simple swapping of pulgs it seems pretty simple to
change and be safer than sorry. A $5 power bar will suffice downstream of
the UPS if you need the extra outlets.

Charles U Farley wrote:

Wes wrote in
:


The dsl modem in the house was being powered by 121 volts at the time
I checked and is pluggged into a Isobar 6 that is suppled by an off
line ups.

I have read some cautions to having a quality surge suppressor connected to
the output of a UPS. Good suppressors have noise filtering circuits that
could be severely taxed by the spikes and DC components of a non "pure or
true" sine wave UPS output.
I checked the manual for the Isobar and it doesn't have any UPS related
warning but for the simple swapping of pulgs it seems pretty simple to
change and be safer than sorry. A $5 power bar will suffice downstream of
the UPS if you need the extra outlets.

Most UPSes do not want to have surge suppressers downstream from them,
when MOVs downstream clamp on a bit of spike that got through before the
UPS switched to inverter, they blow the inverter.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:12:43 -0500, Wes wrote:

s



Very nicely done Wes...nicely done and photographed!

Bravo!

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

DSL has a limited length in feet or meters.
Not miles. The twisted pair goes to a server bay then to optic.
Many cities are optic in the front yard or at the corner.

ADSL is taking over for normal DSL. Advanced... :-)

I have three ADSEL modems in the house. One is a backup.

Martin

Jon Elson wrote:
Wes wrote:
Re-powered the lathe and mill today. Of course both ran backwards

Quickly fixed that.

One irritating thing is that I can power up the 5hp rpc w/o problems
but when I fire up
the 3HP Clausing 6903 lathe, my dsl modem in the house reboots. Sorta
annoying for the
people using my irc server. Strange thing is my UPS log doesn't show
any issues other
than the every night a less than a second power interruption around
2:15 am.

DSL works with incredibly small signals, pumping hundreds of KHz to over
1 MHz through miles of twisted pair is a complete miracle to begin with.
So, it is most likely electrical noise generated by the contactors, etc.
that is your problem, and not actually a power dip. You may need to
check grounding of the lathe, or possibly add power line filters to the
lathe, RPC or whatever, to get rid of it.

Are you sure the modem actually reboots, or does it just lose sync
with the DSLAM and have to re-sync with it? (That probably looks a lot
the same from the blinking lights.)

Jon

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:30:24 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

DSL has a limited length in feet or meters.
Not miles. The twisted pair goes to a server bay then to optic.
Many cities are optic in the front yard or at the corner.

ADSL is taking over for normal DSL. Advanced... :-)


Asymmetric!!!!


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:57:36 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:30:24 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

DSL has a limited length in feet or meters.
Not miles. The twisted pair goes to a server bay then to optic.
Many cities are optic in the front yard or at the corner.

ADSL is taking over for normal DSL. Advanced... :-)


Asymmetric!!!!

Agreed! Asymmetric - as in 750K down, but only 256K up.

They DO sell Symmetric DSL service, usually the "Business Class" stuff
that is over $100 a month. 3Meg down and up, to the skies the limit -
but after a while it's cheaper to just get a real DS-1 (T-1) line and
get the service availability guarantees that come with it.

Except all I can get at 21KFT out from the CO is 384K down, 128K up,
and at&t won't let anyone else use their UVerse Remote DSLAM's.

But it's still a lot better than dial-up. 44K wouldn't be so bad if
it wasn't for all the graphics they want to shove down the line.

-- Bruce --

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:30:24 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

DSL has a limited length in feet or meters.
Not miles. The twisted pair goes to a server bay then to optic.
Many cities are optic in the front yard or at the corner.

8000 feet qualifies as more than one mile, doesn't it? We cite that (in
English) as 1.515 Miles, not 1.515 Mile.

Standard DSL requires a total drop of no more than 8Kft. from the R.T. to
the customer's modem device. Even old copper (30+ years in the air)
works fine at that distance, so long as there are not ground faults or
excessive leakage between conductors.

LLoyd

Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
news
Except all I can get at 21KFT out from the CO is 384K down, 128K up,
and at&t won't let anyone else use their UVerse Remote DSLAM's.

DSL won't work at all over copper at that distance. You may be 21Kft from
the CO, but you're less than 8K feet from the local RT. Since most digital
services are on fiber from the CO to the RT, that distance doesn't matter
much. What matters most is how many feet you are from the RT, what shape
your copper media is in (which you cannot control), and how many other
subscribers are sharing the RT (which divides available bandwidth among
them).

LLoyd

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:44:38 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
news
Except all I can get at 21KFT out from the CO is 384K down, 128K up,
and at&t won't let anyone else use their UVerse Remote DSLAM's.

DSL won't work at all over copper at that distance. You may be 21Kft from
the CO, but you're less than 8K feet from the local RT. Since most digital
services are on fiber from the CO to the RT, that distance doesn't matter
much. What matters most is how many feet you are from the RT, what shape
your copper media is in (which you cannot control), and how many other
subscribers are sharing the RT (which divides available bandwidth among
them).

LLoyd


Yes it does. I was at a slightly greater distance than that and got 2mb/S
down/500kb/S up until converting back to cable.


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Dec 30, 9:44*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley innews
Except all I can get at 21KFT out from the CO is 384K down, 128K up,
and at&t won't let anyone else use their UVerse Remote DSLAM's.

DSL won't work at all over copper at that distance. *You may be 21Kft from
the CO, but you're less than 8K feet from the local RT. *Since most digital
services are on fiber from the CO to the RT, that distance doesn't matter
much. *What matters most is how many feet you are from the RT, what shape
your copper media is in (which you cannot control), and how many other
subscribers are sharing the RT (which divides available bandwidth among
them).

LLoyd

I'm not sure where you got this information from, but it's incorrect.
Modern DSLAMS work quite well over 20K feet. I spent two years
contracting for AT&T DSLAM engineering, qualifying equipment from
Lucent, IBM & Copper Mountain.

More often than not, the limiting factor is load coils on the lines.
Remember that all this copper was designed to carry voice, and has not
changed much from the original stuff installed over a hundred years
ago. If you can get your local guys to check for load coils and remove
them, you'll likely see an improvement. But you have to ask them
nicely.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:02:01 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:44:38 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
news
Except all I can get at 21KFT out from the CO is 384K down, 128K up,
and at&t won't let anyone else use their UVerse Remote DSLAM's.

DSL won't work at all over copper at that distance. You may be 21Kft from
the CO, but you're less than 8K feet from the local RT. Since most digital
services are on fiber from the CO to the RT, that distance doesn't matter
much. What matters most is how many feet you are from the RT, what shape
your copper media is in (which you cannot control), and how many other
subscribers are sharing the RT (which divides available bandwidth among
them).

LLoyd


Yes it does. I was at a slightly greater distance than that and got 2mb/S
down/500kb/S up until converting back to cable.


Mark Rand
RTFM

Lloyd, the hard limit is supposed to be 22,000 feet, and I"m
'officially' at 21Kft and change. If you measure physically it's a
lot less straight-line - but on a diagonal to the street grid. They
must have made a few extra zigs and zags actually getting here.

The DSL works, but it wheezes and sputters, they said even at 384/128
there are more resets and bad frames than they would like to see. But
as we all know, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Lived here 38 years, and there are no RSU's or RLU's or Concentrators
other electronics between here and the CO - we were on Crossbar
(818-883) when we moved in. Trust me, I was a GTE Construction Cable
Splicer and COE Construction Installer, I think I would have noticed
them digging the big hole for a Controlled Environment Vault, and the
access hatch is unmistakable...

at&t installed a RSU out of Canoga Park for the folks south of the
US-101 around the Motion Picture Hospital, and in a very subtle move
forced everyone to change their phones to 818-222 and 818-223

-- Bruce --

rangerssuck fired this volley in news:f4c482f7-
:

More often than not, the limiting factor is load coils on the lines.
Remember that all this copper was designed to carry voice, and has not
changed much from the original stuff installed over a hundred years
ago. If you can get your local guys to check for load coils and remove
them, you'll likely see an improvement. But you have to ask them
nicely.


Hmmm... I'll take you guys' word for it, but ATT in this area declares a
hard limit of 8K ft, and they SWEAR they can't go an inch past it (which
we know they can, but...)

LLoyd

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

Except all I can get at 21KFT out from the CO is 384K down, 128K up,
and at&t won't let anyone else use their UVerse Remote DSLAM's.

I'm a 9 iron shot from the CO and all I could afford was 384K d/u. Noticed in the mail
they increased it to 1M D/ 384K U. Nice Christmas present. I have a feeling that new FCC
rules might be involved rather than my phone company being generous.

The only thing good I can say about my service is I have non-fire walled fixed ip. Handy
to have if you are a re-purposed geek.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote:

DSL has a limited length in feet or meters.
Not miles. The twisted pair goes to a server bay then to optic.
Many cities are optic in the front yard or at the corner.

ADSL is taking over for normal DSL. Advanced... :-)


No, it's ' Asynchronous', which is different upload and download
speeds.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:55:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote:

DSL has a limited length in feet or meters.
Not miles. The twisted pair goes to a server bay then to optic.
Many cities are optic in the front yard or at the corner.

ADSL is taking over for normal DSL. Advanced... :-)


No, it's ' Asynchronous', which is different upload and download
speeds.

No. As I said above its "Asymmetric".

Asynchronous does get involved, but that's in the ATM Asynchronous Transfer
Mode that is used as the switched circuit protocol that carries the ADSL

Mark Rand (network admin for too many years)
RTFM