wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 5:21 pm, Ignoramus30503 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30503.invalid wrote:


Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not do it if I
risked prison time.

i

My advice would be to ask the police and get the name of the officer
that gives you the opinion. I would expect that the officer will say
it is all right as long as it is done with adult supervision. Make
sure the officer understands it is a science lesson.


Dan



that's funny, i would assume the police would demand you give them YOUR name
and address.

b.w.

Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year
old goes to this school.

Dear Lisle District 202 Families:

This morning, I was informed by the Lisle Police that at approximately
9:00 P.M. Tuesday evening the Lisle Police were dispatched to the area
around Lisle Junior High for a loud noise complaint. Upon arrival, the
responding officer could hear loud explosions coming from the
Schiesher Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding
officers located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs
with household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and
recovered 12 of these devices. All but one device had detonated.

The matter remains under investigation and we will continue to monitor
our facilities and supervise school grounds.

If you have any information regarding this matter, please contact the
Lisle Police Department at 911 immediately. If you have any further
questions, please contact your building administrator.

As always, the safety of your children is our first priority.

Sincerely,


Patricia A. Wernet, Ed.D
Superintendent

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0600, Ignoramus30503
wrote:

Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year
old goes to this school.

Dear Lisle District 202 Families:

This morning, I was informed by the Lisle Police that at approximately
9:00 P.M. Tuesday evening the Lisle Police were dispatched to the area
around Lisle Junior High for a loud noise complaint. Upon arrival, the
responding officer could hear loud explosions coming from the
Schiesher Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding
officers located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs
with household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and
recovered 12 of these devices. All but one device had detonated.

The matter remains under investigation and we will continue to monitor
our facilities and supervise school grounds.

If you have any information regarding this matter, please contact the
Lisle Police Department at 911 immediately. If you have any further
questions, please contact your building administrator.

As always, the safety of your children is our first priority.

Sincerely,


Patricia A. Wernet, Ed.D
Superintendent

Some kid got hold of a copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook or the like,
and had to play around. But when the playing is done at the local
school grounds, you draw a lot of unwanted attention...

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and
screwing the cap on tight. When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas
(depending on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it
eventually exceeds the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and
ruptures with a Bang.

There are even more ways to make a potentially deadly bomb the same
way, and let's hope the kid doesn't graduate to them.

-- Bruce --

Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
:

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and
screwing the cap on tight. When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas
(depending on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it
eventually exceeds the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and
ruptures with a Bang.

In our Nanny State, in almost every juridiction, what you just described
is defined as a "destructive device", right there in killing potential
with a pound of C4 in a steel pipe.

Certainly, a soda bottle pressurized to 90-120 psi could hurt you if you
were holding it when it went off. But it's NOT a bomb.

Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

LLoyd

On 2009-11-18, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
:

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and
screwing the cap on tight. When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas
(depending on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it
eventually exceeds the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and
ruptures with a Bang.

In our Nanny State, in almost every juridiction, what you just described
is defined as a "destructive device", right there in killing potential
with a pound of C4 in a steel pipe.

Certainly, a soda bottle pressurized to 90-120 psi could hurt you if you
were holding it when it went off. But it's NOT a bomb.

Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not do it if I
risked prison time.

i

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

In our Nanny State, in almost every juridiction, what you just described
is defined as a "destructive device", right there in killing potential
with a pound of C4 in a steel pipe.

Certainly, a soda bottle pressurized to 90-120 psi could hurt you if you
were holding it when it went off. But it's NOT a bomb.

Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

LLoyd


That's the way it works is a police state. Everything is a crime and
every crime is punishable by unreasonably long sentences. Our society
has handed the police and the military way too much power. One example;
General McChrystal tells the president he wants 40,000 more troops for
Afghanistan. Many people are saying since this is what he wants that is
what the president should do. In a civilian led country the president
tells the generals what to do and no the other way around. We have a
military telling the civilians what to do and we have a network
thousands of interconnected police agencies covering every inch of the
country. I seriously doubt that the Founding Fathers had this kind of
thing in mind when the created the country. I hear a lot of talk from
some about freedom. In a police state freedom is an illusion at best. Is
America a free country? To do what, work?

Hawke

On Nov 18, 5:21*pm, Ignoramus30503 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30503.invalid wrote:


Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not do it if I
risked prison time.

i

My advice would be to ask the police and get the name of the officer
that gives you the opinion. I would expect that the officer will say
it is all right as long as it is done with adult supervision. Make
sure the officer understands it is a science lesson.


Dan

General McChrystal tells the president he wants 40,000 more troops for
Afghanistan. Many people are saying since this is what he wants that is
what the president should do. In a civilian led country the president
tells the generals what to do and no the other way around.

I seem to remember both Hitler and Stalin telling their generals what to
do. Strategically a poor choice if you wish to win a war. Although
Stalin eventually did succeed when he let Zhukov and other do their thing.

On 2009-11-18, T.Alan Kraus wrote:

General McChrystal tells the president he wants 40,000 more troops for
Afghanistan. Many people are saying since this is what he wants that is
what the president should do. In a civilian led country the president
tells the generals what to do and no the other way around.

I seem to remember both Hitler and Stalin telling their generals what to
do. Strategically a poor choice if you wish to win a war. Although
Stalin eventually did succeed when he let Zhukov and other do their thing.

I would like to disagree with this.

Stalin always was closely supervising his generals and assigning
scarce resources. The generals always asked for what exceeded Soviet
Union's total capacity.

Germany had the same problem -- lack of resources -- and Hitler
performed the same job as Stalin, allocating those resources to generals.

After the way, Hitler was dead and generals wrote a lot of memoirs,
blaming Hitler for various defeats. I remain unconvinced that this is
historically true.

i

Ignoramus30503 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids.

Check with your local sherrif. If you do this as a controlled science
demonstration, they might be OK with it, but don't make any until you find
out what level (if any) offense it is.

They're variously known as bottle poppers, dry-ice bombs, and drano bombs.

LLoyd

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0600, Ignoramus30503 wrote:

Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year old
goes to this school.
....
Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding officers
located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs with
household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and recovered 12
of these devices. All but one device had detonated.


It doesn't matter what chemicals you use - if they just increase pressure
and rupture the bottle, that's NOT a "detonation."

This is just paranoia on the part of the nanny state.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:47:26 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0600, Ignoramus30503

Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year
old goes to this school.

Dear Lisle District 202 Families:

This morning, I was informed by the Lisle Police that at approximately
9:00 P.M. Tuesday evening the Lisle Police were dispatched to the area
around Lisle Junior High for a loud noise complaint. Upon arrival, the
responding officer could hear loud explosions coming from the Schiesher
Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding officers
located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs with
household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and recovered 12
of these devices. All but one device had detonated.

The matter remains under investigation and we will continue to monitor
our facilities and supervise school grounds.

If you have any information regarding this matter, please contact the
Lisle Police Department at 911 immediately. If you have any further
questions, please contact your building administrator.

As always, the safety of your children is our first priority.

Some kid got hold of a copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook or the like,
and had to play around. But when the playing is done at the local school
grounds, you draw a lot of unwanted attention...

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and screwing
the cap on tight. When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas (depending
on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it eventually exceeds
the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and ruptures with a Bang.

There are even more ways to make a potentially deadly bomb the same
way, and let's hope the kid doesn't graduate to them.

Fill the bottle with white vinegar, drop in a packet of baking soda
wrapped in toilet paper, close the lid, and get away. ;-)

If the bottles were filled with, say, black powder, then you'd get
a pretty good pop, but it still isn't a "detonation". (black powder
"deflagrates.")

Hell, just drop a pack of Mentos into a 1L bottle of Coke!

Cheers!
Rich

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:15 -0800, wrote:
On Nov 18, 5:21*pm, Ignoramus30503 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM. 30503.invalid

Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to
understand anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If
it makes a loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not do it if I
risked prison time.

My advice would be to ask the police and get the name of the officer that
gives you the opinion. I would expect that the officer will say it is all
right as long as it is done with adult supervision. Make sure the officer
understands it is a science lesson.

Back in the old days, before the socialists turned the schools into
nothing but propaganda mills, we were learning about gases. We'd
electrolyze some water, made conductive by a few drops of H2SO4,
and make oxygen and hydrogen. One day, we came into class, and the
teacher had a gas collection bottle all prepared, with the glass
plate on top; he had one of the kids come up front with a burning
splint, and asked her to light the contents of the bottle. BOOM!!!!

The guy had put hydrogen _AND_ oygen into the bottle. Even I was
shocked - if the bottle had shattered, there'd have been sharp
glass shards flying everywhere!

God-damned government seems dead-set on taking all of the fun out
of life.

Thanks,
Rich

On 2009-11-18, Rich Grise wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:47:26 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0600, Ignoramus30503

Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year
old goes to this school.

Dear Lisle District 202 Families:

This morning, I was informed by the Lisle Police that at approximately
9:00 P.M. Tuesday evening the Lisle Police were dispatched to the area
around Lisle Junior High for a loud noise complaint. Upon arrival, the
responding officer could hear loud explosions coming from the Schiesher
Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding officers
located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs with
household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and recovered 12
of these devices. All but one device had detonated.

The matter remains under investigation and we will continue to monitor
our facilities and supervise school grounds.

If you have any information regarding this matter, please contact the
Lisle Police Department at 911 immediately. If you have any further
questions, please contact your building administrator.

As always, the safety of your children is our first priority.

Some kid got hold of a copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook or the like,
and had to play around. But when the playing is done at the local school
grounds, you draw a lot of unwanted attention...

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and screwing
the cap on tight. When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas (depending
on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it eventually exceeds
the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and ruptures with a Bang.

There are even more ways to make a potentially deadly bomb the same
way, and let's hope the kid doesn't graduate to them.

Fill the bottle with white vinegar, drop in a packet of baking soda
wrapped in toilet paper, close the lid, and get away. ;-)


This does not work. The CO2 dissolves in water. We tried it with my
kids.

i

Ignoramus30503 wrote:
On 2009-11-18, T.Alan Kraus wrote:
General McChrystal tells the president he wants 40,000 more troops for
Afghanistan. Many people are saying since this is what he wants that is
what the president should do. In a civilian led country the president
tells the generals what to do and no the other way around.
I seem to remember both Hitler and Stalin telling their generals what to
do. Strategically a poor choice if you wish to win a war. Although
Stalin eventually did succeed when he let Zhukov and other do their thing.

I would like to disagree with this.

Stalin always was closely supervising his generals and assigning
scarce resources. The generals always asked for what exceeded Soviet
Union's total capacity.

Germany had the same problem -- lack of resources -- and Hitler
performed the same job as Stalin, allocating those resources to generals.

After the way, Hitler was dead and generals wrote a lot of memoirs,
blaming Hitler for various defeats. I remain unconvinced that this is
historically true.

i

Oh Jeez ! Nazis called Hitler: grofaz (greatest commander of all
times). You may want to disagree, but historical record proves otherwise.

The inability to delegate is innate to dictators, it is what ultimately
brings them all down, and the same applies to business or all other en
devours in life. One can really only handle one hand worth of fingers in
any situation. The rule of five has long been recognized in emergency
services. After 5 branches one delegates and creates more sub branches.

On Nov 18, 2:44*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0600, Ignoramus30503 wrote:
Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year old
goes to this school.
...
Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding officers
located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs with
household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and recovered 12
of these devices. All but one device had detonated.

It doesn't matter what chemicals you use - if they just increase pressure
and rupture the bottle, that's NOT a "detonation."

This is just paranoia on the part of the nanny state.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

So your problem is with the word "detonated?" You'd be OK if they had
used the word "exploded?"

On Nov 18, 12:21*pm, Ignoramus30503 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30503.invalid wrote:
On 2009-11-18, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:



Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
:

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and
screwing the cap on tight. *When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas
(depending on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it
eventually exceeds the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and
ruptures with a Bang.

In our Nanny State, in almost every juridiction, what you just described
is defined as a "destructive device", right there in killing potential
with a pound of C4 in a steel pipe.

Certainly, a soda bottle pressurized to 90-120 psi could hurt you if you
were holding it when it went off. *But it's NOT a bomb.

Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not do it if I
risked prison time.

i

Iggy -

If you do decide to do this (and it is pretty cool), make sure to take
the appropriate precautions. It takes a lot of pressure to rupture a
soda bottle, and by the time it lets go, there's a WHOLE lot of energy
involved. They did this on Time Warp, a show on Discovery where they
used a high-speed camera to capture all sorts of neat events. They had
the bottle submerged in a tank of water. The result was huge. In my
somewhat misspent youth, we did this in my back yard in a somewhat
smaller plastic bottle. My friend was blind for three days as a
result. Fortunately, my father was a doctor and this was before
lawyers.

Here's a video of the Time Warp segment:
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time...-ice-bomb.html

Another impressive (and dangerous) thing for which you already have
the apparatus is to fill a balloon with oxygen and acetylene. An easy
igniter is a single strand from stranded 18 gauge lamp wire stapled to
a piece of wood and attached to a long extension cord. Sit the balloon
on it, go to the other end and plug it in. It doesn't go bang, it goes
BOOM.

There's an urban legend about a guy who did the electrolysis thing
into a 5-gallon water cooler bottle, thereby getting a nice mix of
hydrogen and oxygen. Having equipped it with some sort of remote
igniter and burying it in his back yard, the story goes that he made a
sizeable crater and knocked down a tree. Now, I'm not sure I believe
the entire story of this so-called "hydrogen bomb," but based on the
sound that came from my very small (pint-sized, I guess) oxy-acetylene
bomb, it's certainly believable.

There was a scene in a movie years ago in which a guy took a light
bulb, broke the seal and partially filled it with gasoline. He then
screwed it in to the desk lamp of his target. It was a pretty
impressive explosion, but that was a movie.

Another cool thing to do with the kids is to take your soda bottle
(before you blow it up with dry ice), slosh some rubbing alcohol
around in it and pour it out, leaving the bottle full of alcohol
fumes. A long match held to the mouth of the bottle makes a pretty
long flame with a satisfying WOOSH. I tried this with a bottle placed
on rollers (maybe 1/4" dowels) on the warehouse floor. It went about
ten feet. I don't think the dowels helped, except to get it started in
the right direction. Your mileage (footage) may vary.

In any case, be careful.

On Nov 18, 11:41*am, "William Wixon" wrote:

My advice would be to ask the police and get the name of the officer
that gives you the opinion. *I would expect that the officer will say
it is all right as long as it is done with adult supervision. *Make
sure the officer understands *it is a science lesson.

Dan

that's funny, i would assume the police would demand you give them YOUR name
and address.

b.w.

Why is that funny? I have no problem with giving the police my name
and address. As I said, I would expect the officer to say that it is
all right as long as it is adult supervised and done on your own
property. I never had any problem setting off Tovex on my property.
It has a bit more energy than a soda bottle.

It is exploding things on public property that the police do not like.

Dan

wrote:
On Nov 18, 11:41 am, "William Wixon" wrote:

My advice would be to ask the police and get the name of the officer
that gives you the opinion. I would expect that the officer will say
it is all right as long as it is done with adult supervision. Make
sure the officer understands it is a science lesson.

Dan

that's funny, i would assume the police would demand you give them
YOUR name and address.

b.w.

Why is that funny? I have no problem with giving the police my name
and address. As I said, I would expect the officer to say that it is
all right as long as it is adult supervised and done on your own
property. I never had any problem setting off Tovex on my property.
It has a bit more energy than a soda bottle.

It is exploding things on public property that the police do not like.

Telling a cop you are going to do something dangerous with children in
attendance is an invitation to have Child Protective Services make a visit
in order to remove your children.


--
John R. Carroll

rangerssuck wrote in
:

snip
Another impressive (and dangerous) thing for which you already have
the apparatus is to fill a balloon with oxygen and acetylene. An easy
igniter is a single strand from stranded 18 gauge lamp wire stapled to
a piece of wood and attached to a long extension cord. Sit the balloon
on it, go to the other end and plug it in. It doesn't go bang, it goes
BOOM.

There's an urban legend about a guy who did the electrolysis thing
into a 5-gallon water cooler bottle, thereby getting a nice mix of
hydrogen and oxygen. Having equipped it with some sort of remote
igniter and burying it in his back yard, the story goes that he made a
sizeable crater and knocked down a tree. Now, I'm not sure I believe
the entire story of this so-called "hydrogen bomb," but based on the
sound that came from my very small (pint-sized, I guess) oxy-acetylene
bomb, it's certainly believable.

From numerous experiments in my youth, oxy-acetylene makes a MUCH bigger
bang than a similar amount of oxygen & hydrogen. When we discovered
this, we never bothered with hydrogen again. We once set off the
equivalent of ~ 10 or 15 gallons of oxyacetylene in a taped up
drycleaning bag. We took it WAY off into the boonies in New Mexico to
set it off. Fortunately, living up in Los Alamos meant that folks were
used to loud noises off in the distance, and we didn't attract any
attention.

It was one of those "how did we ever survive chidhood?" events. If a
spark had set it off when we were driving off to our "test site", it
would have turned the car inside out.

Doug White

"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..
rangerssuck wrote in
:

snip
Another impressive (and dangerous) thing for which you already have
the apparatus is to fill a balloon with oxygen and acetylene. An easy
igniter is a single strand from stranded 18 gauge lamp wire stapled to
a piece of wood and attached to a long extension cord. Sit the balloon
on it, go to the other end and plug it in. It doesn't go bang, it goes
BOOM.

There's an urban legend about a guy who did the electrolysis thing
into a 5-gallon water cooler bottle, thereby getting a nice mix of
hydrogen and oxygen. Having equipped it with some sort of remote
igniter and burying it in his back yard, the story goes that he made a
sizeable crater and knocked down a tree. Now, I'm not sure I believe
the entire story of this so-called "hydrogen bomb," but based on the
sound that came from my very small (pint-sized, I guess) oxy-acetylene
bomb, it's certainly believable.

From numerous experiments in my youth, oxy-acetylene makes a MUCH bigger
bang than a similar amount of oxygen & hydrogen. When we discovered
this, we never bothered with hydrogen again. We once set off the
equivalent of ~ 10 or 15 gallons of oxyacetylene in a taped up
drycleaning bag. We took it WAY off into the boonies in New Mexico to
set it off. Fortunately, living up in Los Alamos meant that folks were
used to loud noises off in the distance, and we didn't attract any
attention.

It was one of those "how did we ever survive chidhood?" events. If a
spark had set it off when we were driving off to our "test site", it
would have turned the car inside out.


Static electricity is the big IF with this particular "experiment".

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

On Nov 18, 7:21*am, Ignoramus30503 ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.
30503.invalid wrote:
On 2009-11-18, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:



Bruce L. Bergman fired this volley in
:

There are several ways to make a satisfying yet benign BOOM!, some
as simple as filling a PETE soda bottle with dry ice chips and
screwing the cap on tight. *When the CO2 sublimates to a liquid or gas
(depending on the temperature and pressure, it gets complex) it
eventually exceeds the pressure capacity of the plastic bottle and
ruptures with a Bang.

In our Nanny State, in almost every juridiction, what you just described
is defined as a "destructive device", right there in killing potential
with a pound of C4 in a steel pipe.

Certainly, a soda bottle pressurized to 90-120 psi could hurt you if you
were holding it when it went off. *But it's NOT a bomb.

Sadly, our law enforcement people are so completely unable to understand
anything technical, that they've adopted the position, "If it makes a
loud noise, it's a deadly bomb."

Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers" is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one (with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not do it if I
risked prison time.

i

They arrested a student at UH Hilo for bomb making and such for
setting one or two off to get out of an exam.
Karl

On Nov 18, 11:45*pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:


Telling a cop you are going to do something dangerous with children in
attendance is an invitation to have Child Protective Services make a visit
in order to remove your children.

--
John R. Carroll

That is why I said ask the officer. If you are going to do it anyway,
there is no reason to speak to anyone.

Dan

When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a
galon metal can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of
water, and boiled it on a hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the
can cooled, it shriveled down, due to air pressure. At least
that's not explosive.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ignoramus30503" wrote
in message
...


Just about anywhere you can name, making "bottle poppers"
is a felony.

Lloyd, can you clarify this. I actually wanted to make one
(with dry
ice) as a science lesson to kids. But, clearly I would not
do it if I
risked prison time.

i

Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a
galon metal can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of
water, and boiled it on a hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the
can cooled, it shriveled down, due to air pressure.

In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called
an 'implosive device'.



--Winston


--

On YouTube, all the tools have volume controls.

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a
galon metal can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of
water, and boiled it on a hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the
can cooled, it shriveled down, due to air pressure.

In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called
an 'implosive device'.




And don't forget the "environmental nightmare" of having the exposed solder
joint if the seam on the can split open. That contains lead. and we
wouldn't want the children to be exposed to that now would we.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a
galon metal can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of
water, and boiled it on a hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the
can cooled, it shriveled down, due to air pressure.
In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called
an 'implosive device'.




And don't forget the "environmental nightmare" of having the exposed solder
joint if the seam on the can split open. That contains lead. and we
wouldn't want the children to be exposed to that now would we.

Everybody RUN!



--Winston

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:51:21 -0800, rangerssuck wrote:
On Nov 18, 2:44*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0600, Ignoramus30503 wrote:
Funny dispatch from our school district, I get these because my 8 year
old goes to this school.
...
Elementary parking lot. Once at the school, the responding officers
located plastic bottles that were turned into homemade bombs with
household cleaning products. Officers searched the area and recovered
12 of these devices. All but one device had detonated.

It doesn't matter what chemicals you use - if they just increase
pressure and rupture the bottle, that's NOT a "detonation."

This is just paranoia on the part of the nanny state.

So your problem is with the word "detonated?" You'd be OK if they had used
the word "exploded?"

Yeah, probably. But a "detonation" is a "special" kind of explosion - we
should ask in rec.pyrotechnics.

I guess my bitch is the rampant doublespeak by the rulers.

Thanks,
Rich

On Nov 18, 10:51*pm, rangerssuck wrote:


So your problem is with the word "detonated?" You'd be OK if they had
used the word "exploded?"

The wiki definition is pretty close. The key words are supersonic
shock wave.
Dan

Detonation is a process of combustion in which a supersonic shock wave
is propagated through a fluid due to an energy release in a reaction
zone. It is the more powerful of the two general classes of
combustion, the other one being deflagration. In a detonation, the
shock compresses the material thus increasing the temperature to the
point of ignition. The ignited material burns behind the shock and
releases energy that supports the shock propagation. This self-
sustained detonation wave is different from a deflagration, which
propagates at a subsonic rate (i.e., slower than the sound speed in
the material itself). Because detonations generate high pressures,
they are usually much more destructive than deflagrations.

Detonations can be produced by explosives, reactive gaseous mixtures,
certain dusts and aerosols.

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:19:18 -0800, the infamous "Roger Shoaf"
scrawled the following:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a
galon metal can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of
water, and boiled it on a hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the
can cooled, it shriveled down, due to air pressure.

In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called
an 'implosive device'.




And don't forget the "environmental nightmare" of having the exposed solder
joint if the seam on the can split open. That contains lead. and we
wouldn't want the children to be exposed to that now would we.

We'd best remove compasses, pens, and pencils, pointed weapons.
And we'd best remove rulers, a sharpenable edge weapon.
Remove the rest of the old slate chalkboards, as they can be broken
into pointed weapons.
Let's also take belts and shoelaces, hanging devices.

Hmm, now school looks like prison. Hmm...

--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:44:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:19:18 -0800, the infamous "Roger Shoaf"
"Winston" wrote in message
Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a galon metal
can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of water, and boiled it on a
hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the can cooled, it shriveled down, due
to air pressure.

In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called an
'implosive device'.

And don't forget the "environmental nightmare" of having the exposed
solder joint if the seam on the can split open. That contains lead. and
we wouldn't want the children to be exposed to that now would we.

We'd best remove compasses, pens, and pencils, pointed weapons. And we'd
best remove rulers, a sharpenable edge weapon. Remove the rest of the old
slate chalkboards, as they can be broken into pointed weapons.
Let's also take belts and shoelaces, hanging devices.

Hmm, now school looks like prison. Hmm...

From the POV of the inmates^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hchildren, school has been the
moral equivalent of prison since there have been "public" schools.

Not to mention slave labor.

Why homework? If a teacher can't teach a day's lessons in a day, then you
need to find competent teachers!

Cheers!
Rich

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:42:50 -0800, the infamous Rich Grise
scrawled the following:

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:44:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:19:18 -0800, the infamous "Roger Shoaf"
"Winston" wrote in message
Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a galon metal
can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of water, and boiled it on a
hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the can cooled, it shriveled down, due
to air pressure.

In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called an
'implosive device'.

And don't forget the "environmental nightmare" of having the exposed
solder joint if the seam on the can split open. That contains lead. and
we wouldn't want the children to be exposed to that now would we.

We'd best remove compasses, pens, and pencils, pointed weapons. And we'd
best remove rulers, a sharpenable edge weapon. Remove the rest of the old
slate chalkboards, as they can be broken into pointed weapons.
Let's also take belts and shoelaces, hanging devices.

Hmm, now school looks like prison. Hmm...

From the POV of the inmates^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hchildren, school has been the
moral equivalent of prison since there have been "public" schools.

Not to mention slave labor.

Why homework? If a teacher can't teach a day's lessons in a day, then you
need to find competent teachers!

Uh, let's go over that one really quickly:

1) You're teaching 35 students at a time.

2) You have 48 minutes for the class.

3) It takes 6 minutes for these lovely students to become seated and
get out their books before you can start teaching them.

4) Several of the students can't speak any English, several more are
just dull, six more don't want to be there so they're acting out.

5) The No Child Left Behind gov't mandate says that you have to pass
every student now.

6) You can't spank or even reprimand the kids nowadays. It might
damage the little angel's self esteem.


So, what are you going to do to make sure that all of them pass?

A1) You can try to get the parents involved. (G'luck on that one)

A2) How about some extra problems to work out? Y'know, homework. The
better teachers know that they don't have time to get all the ideas
across in the limited time, so they assign homework to finish the job
they can't. Better students and parents understand this. Why don't
you?

Do you have any better suggestions, Rich? Let's hear 'em.

I had maybe 5 truly wonderful teachers through my schooling; folks
I'll cherish to my dying day. I had maybe 5 truly horrible teachers
during that time, too, which I'll remember with ire forever. The rest
were just there to do their job and did OK. I figure I was lucky that
I didn't grow up and go to school in some slummy inner city.

What we need are more ex-Navy Seals teaching classes. (see movies
like _The Principal_, and _The Substitute 1-3_) Hooaah!

--
When we are planning for posterity,
we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine

On Nov 20, 7:42*pm, Rich Grise wrote:


Why homework? If a teacher can't teach a day's lessons in a day, then you
need to find competent teachers!

Cheers!
Rich

This really does not deserve an answer. But I will answer anyway.

I can teach everything you need to know about welding in one day. But
you need to actually practice welding in order to become proficient.

Same thing is true of Math and English. You need to actually
practice doing math and writing. The practice can be done without a
teacher. So if the kids do the practice at home, the teacher can
teach more during the day.

Dan

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:42:50 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:44:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:19:18 -0800, the infamous "Roger Shoaf"
"Winston" wrote in message
Stormin Mormon wrote:
When I was in middle school. Our science teacher took a galon metal
can with screw cap. Put in an inch or so of water, and boiled it on a
hotplate. Screw the cap on. As the can cooled, it shriveled down, due
to air pressure.

In the current paranoid, delusional climate, it would be called an
'implosive device'.

And don't forget the "environmental nightmare" of having the exposed
solder joint if the seam on the can split open. That contains lead. and
we wouldn't want the children to be exposed to that now would we.

We'd best remove compasses, pens, and pencils, pointed weapons. And we'd
best remove rulers, a sharpenable edge weapon. Remove the rest of the old
slate chalkboards, as they can be broken into pointed weapons.
Let's also take belts and shoelaces, hanging devices.

Hmm, now school looks like prison. Hmm...

From the POV of the inmates^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hchildren, school has been the
moral equivalent of prison since there have been "public" schools.

Not to mention slave labor.

Why homework? If a teacher can't teach a day's lessons in a day, then you
need to find competent teachers!

In order to learn, the student must engage. If the teacher-to-student
ratio is 25:1, the teacher can't engage any student for more than a
couple of minutes per hour. That isn't enough. But the teacher can
present ideas and give examples during class, enough so the student
can practice, drill and master with homework.

Private education is available with considerably lower
student-to-teacher ratios and considerably more motivated teachers.
It's expensive, but it's there for the few who might wish to avail
themselves and can afford it. Generally, we don't value education
enough to pay for a first-rate education system, nor to share in the
responsibility and participate in the process of educating our kids.

rangerssuck wrote:

Another impressive (and dangerous) thing for which you already have
the apparatus is to fill a balloon with oxygen and acetylene. An easy
igniter is a single strand from stranded 18 gauge lamp wire stapled to
a piece of wood and attached to a long extension cord. Sit the balloon
on it, go to the other end and plug it in. It doesn't go bang, it goes
BOOM.
Some demented friends of mine filled a DRY
CLEANER's bag with
stochiometric Oxy-Acetylene mix and DROVE it to
the field at the local
high school. Some of them were SMOKING in the car!!!!
They set it off by slightly remote (not remote
enough!) control with a
model rocket igniter.
It blew out windows for about 4 blocks. Their
parents wondered why they
were talking so loud for the next couple days.

They were a bit sobered realizing they had been
SMOKING in the car ride
with the bag bomb!

I didn't even live in the same state with these
guys, or know them until about
a decade after this exploit!

Yeah, if you think how load a bang it makes when a
torch tip pops, and that is
LOUD, that's less than a thimble-full of gas. I
can't imagine how loud that
bag bomb was, but I know it had to be one of those
explosions where you
actually don't hear the explosion at all, but you
hear the echoes!

One of this crew is the same guy who tried to dry
out wet fireworks in a
microwave oven! (Sorry, I'm having minor
convulsions while trying to type
this!) I saw the microwave a few days after this,
it definitely looked a bit
worse for the experience. I only wish I'd been
there to see it when he had
to carry the thing out the back door with all
these bottle rockets and stuff
going off inside!

Jon

Doug White wrote:
We once set off the
equivalent of ~ 10 or 15 gallons of oxyacetylene in a taped up
drycleaning bag. We took it WAY off into the boonies in New Mexico to
set it off. Fortunately, living up in Los Alamos meant that folks were
used to loud noises off in the distance, and we didn't attract any
attention.

It was one of those "how did we ever survive chidhood?" events. If a
spark had set it off when we were driving off to our "test site", it
would have turned the car inside out.
Amazing, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised
there's anybody else crazy
enough to try this! (Not me, by the way.)

Jon

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:04:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Nov 20, 7:42*pm, Rich Grise wrote:


Why homework? If a teacher can't teach a day's lessons in a day, then you
need to find competent teachers!

Cheers!
Rich

This really does not deserve an answer. But I will answer anyway.

I can teach everything you need to know about welding in one day. But
you need to actually practice welding in order to become proficient.

Same thing is true of Math and English. You need to actually
practice doing math and writing. The practice can be done without a
teacher. So if the kids do the practice at home, the teacher can
teach more during the day.

Dan

Very very true indeed!

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

On 2009-11-22, Jon Elson wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:

Another impressive (and dangerous) thing for which you already have
the apparatus is to fill a balloon with oxygen and acetylene. An easy
igniter is a single strand from stranded 18 gauge lamp wire stapled to
a piece of wood and attached to a long extension cord. Sit the balloon
on it, go to the other end and plug it in. It doesn't go bang, it goes
BOOM.
Some demented friends of mine filled a DRY
CLEANER's bag with
stochiometric Oxy-Acetylene mix and DROVE it to
the field at the local
high school. Some of them were SMOKING in the car!!!!
They set it off by slightly remote (not remote
enough!) control with a
model rocket igniter.
It blew out windows for about 4 blocks. Their
parents wondered why they
were talking so loud for the next couple days.

They were a bit sobered realizing they had been
SMOKING in the car ride
with the bag bomb!

I didn't even live in the same state with these
guys, or know them until about
a decade after this exploit!

Was one the friends named Doug?

i

Yeah, if you think how load a bang it makes when a
torch tip pops, and that is
LOUD, that's less than a thimble-full of gas. I
can't imagine how loud that
bag bomb was, but I know it had to be one of those
explosions where you
actually don't hear the explosion at all, but you
hear the echoes!

One of this crew is the same guy who tried to dry
out wet fireworks in a
microwave oven! (Sorry, I'm having minor
convulsions while trying to type
this!) I saw the microwave a few days after this,
it definitely looked a bit
worse for the experience. I only wish I'd been
there to see it when he had
to carry the thing out the back door with all
these bottle rockets and stuff
going off inside!

Jon

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:41:29 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Doug White wrote:
We once set off the
equivalent of ~ 10 or 15 gallons of oxyacetylene in a taped up
drycleaning bag. We took it WAY off into the boonies in New Mexico to
set it off. Fortunately, living up in Los Alamos meant that folks were
used to loud noises off in the distance, and we didn't attract any
attention.

It was one of those "how did we ever survive chidhood?" events. If a
spark had set it off when we were driving off to our "test site", it
would have turned the car inside out.

Amazing, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised
there's anybody else crazy
enough to try this! (Not me, by the way.)

I might - but I sure as f*** wouldn't try carrying it out there
pre-mixed in a plastic bag in the back seat of a car!!

You mix it on site from welding tanks, from a long way back, hiding
inside a bunker and wearing something just this side of body armor.
Two seperate hoses out to the plastic bag. Then get way the hell back
before setting it off by remote control.

Heck, I already knew what could happen when I was in High School -
we still had excellent shop teachers and each semester they set up a
very small scale demonstration of the hazards that could be found in
their various classrooms, and explained just how nasty the results
would be if you tried that full scale.

The smart students listened and learned - problem being, there were
always a few stupid ones...

Probably why they don't offer real shop classes in High School
anymore. Our "Do something insane and Sue 'Em All when you get hurt!"
society saw to that, now it's the industrial arts equivalent of
underwater basketweaving. Blunt-tip scissors and all.

-- Bruce --

For entertainment, consider what would happen if you rented an
apartment on the first floor of a high rise building, filled it with
stochiometric O/A mix and ignited the mix.