Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On 2009-09-25, Randy wrote:
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

I saw that auction too.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Maybe they wil be made in India. I think that Harbor Freight
vise-grips will now be better value for the money.

i

a lot of their tools are CHINA

"Randy" wrote in message
news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

"Randy" wrote in message
news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Good grief!

Will nothing be manufactured in the US anymore?

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Good grief!

Will nothing be manufactured in the US anymore?

"Social workers" (an oxymoron), the US is very good at producing "Social
workers"...

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Good grief!

Will nothing be manufactured in the US anymore?

"Social workers" (an oxymoron), the US is very good at producing "Social
workers"...

I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g, but, in
case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done badly. Except
for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share of GDP hasn't declined
much. Our total manufacturing output continues to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product manufacturing has
been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More of our output has
switched to industrial products. (You can get details on government
websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are based on 80-year-old
manufacturing technology, are a natural for low-wage countries to
manufacture.

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2009-09-25, Ed Huntress wrote:
I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g, but, in
case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done badly. Except
for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share of GDP hasn't declined
much. Our total manufacturing output continues to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product manufacturing has
been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More of our output has
switched to industrial products. (You can get details on government
websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are based on 80-year-old
manufacturing technology, are a natural for low-wage countries to
manufacture.

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

All of the above was a revelation to me.

i

"Randy" wrote in message
news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

I have gotten a large number of vise grips through ebay. One or two here
and there, some larger numbers than that. Except one, all of them were in
good to excellent shape. Use the term "vice" grip, also, as there will be
some listed that way. C clamps, also. I have gotten the 11r's for $6.
They last, so the current US produced tools will be available for a long
time. I would never ever go to a store and pay what they want for a new
pair.

Steve

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
news Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete
factory is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they
say. Let's see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Good grief!

Will nothing be manufactured in the US anymore?

"Social workers" (an oxymoron), the US is very good at producing
"Social workers"...

I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g,
but, in case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done
badly. Except for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share
of GDP hasn't declined much. Our total manufacturing output continues
to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product
manufacturing has been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More
of our output has switched to industrial products. (You can get
details on government websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are
based on 80-year-old manufacturing technology, are a natural for
low-wage countries to manufacture.

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing
output lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

And they have an order of magnitude or so more employed in that sector.


--
John R. Carroll

Right. As our friend Hamei says, who has employed many Chinese manufacturing
workers in China, it takes about 10 Chinese to produce what one American
worker produces.

I think he's exaggerating because they exasperate him. But their
productivity does run between 5% and 10% that of the US.

--
Ed Huntress

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

Is that measured in USD, or some other unit of measure?


Jon

I believe it's dollars, Jon. I'd have to go look. But dollars are the basis
of trade, so it doesn't matter much.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus24590" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-25, Randy wrote:
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

I saw that auction too.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Maybe they wil be made in India. I think that Harbor Freight
vise-grips will now be better value for the money.

I have seen a private label with plastic coated handles and a square(er)
looking frame that looks interesting. Can't recall if it was Sears or HF.

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
news Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete
factory is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they
say. Let's see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Good grief!

Will nothing be manufactured in the US anymore?

"Social workers" (an oxymoron), the US is very good at producing
"Social workers"...

I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g,
but, in case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done
badly. Except for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share
of GDP hasn't declined much. Our total manufacturing output continues
to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product
manufacturing has been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More
of our output has switched to industrial products. (You can get
details on government websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are
based on 80-year-old manufacturing technology, are a natural for
low-wage countries to manufacture.

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing
output lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

And they have an order of magnitude or so more employed in that sector.


--
John R. Carroll

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

I would never ever go to a store and pay what they want for a new pair.

That is an interesting economic statement.

Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

Is that measured in USD, or some other unit of measure?


Jon

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:12:38 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus24590
scrawled the following:

On 2009-09-25, Randy wrote:
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

I saw that auction too.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Maybe they wil be made in India. I think that Harbor Freight
vise-grips will now be better value for the money.

Have they fixed the quality problem with the adjuster screw stop yet?
I kept having the stops go away with early vice grips from HF, where
the actuator rod bypassed the stop and stuck itself between the rolled
housing and the adj screw.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sep 25, 5:19*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

. I think that Harbor Freight
vise-grips will now be better value for the money.

Have they fixed the quality problem with the adjuster screw stop yet?
I kept having the stops go away with early vice grips from HF, where
the actuator rod bypassed the stop and stuck itself between the rolled
housing and the adj screw.


Almost everything I have bought from Harbor Freight has been worth at
least as much as I paid. One of the exceptions was a pair of vise
grips that I bought many years ago. The only purchase from Harbor
Freight that was not useable.

But the vise grips from Harbor Freight that I acquired more recently
are good and have no problem with the adjusted screw jamming.

The only recent purchase from Harbor Freight that was a bit
disappointing was a 4.5 inch angle grinder. The actual grinder is
good, but the included abrasive wheel glazed over immediately. So if
you get a small angle grinder , buy some replacement wheels. The
replacement wheel from Harbor Freight are good.

Also the 7 inch by 1/16th aluminum abrasive cut off discs from Russia
are excellent. The 7 inch by 1/8 inch are not bad, but cut a wider
slot so do not cut as fast.


Dan

"Ignoramus24590" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-25, Ed Huntress wrote:
I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g, but,
in
case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done badly.
Except
for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share of GDP hasn't
declined
much. Our total manufacturing output continues to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product manufacturing
has
been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More of our output has
switched to industrial products. (You can get details on government
websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are based on 80-year-old
manufacturing technology, are a natural for low-wage countries to
manufacture.

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

All of the above was a revelation to me.

i

It is to many people. FWIW, the range of US vs. China manufacturing depends
on how you count processed commodities, like basic steel. The most
pessimistic ratio is 1.7:1 for the US v. China. If you use the more common
definitions, it ran around 2.4:1 before the economic downturn. It's probably
in the same range or a little lower now, as China's exports have been
suffering along with the rest of the world's, and their domestic consumption
was a pretty low percentage of total output, compared to that of the US.
Japan's output has fallen below that of China, but they're number 3.

But the impression that we don't manufacture anything anymore is dead wrong.
We produce about twice as much as China. As you can see from the output
graph I linked to above, the total output numbers for the US keep climbing.
You can see what segments are doing what from the Census Bureau's Economic
Census. And really fine product detail is available if you want to work a
little harder.

--
Ed Huntress

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
diainc...
Ed Huntress wrote:

[snip]

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

We just see a lot of Chinese goods because they cater to the low price/low
cost end of the market. The US excels at building the sorts of things that
Caterpillar and Boeing make. But not things like vice grips.

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at a
competitive price. If China succeeds in getting its domestic consumption up
to "normal" rates, the balance of trade could come much closer to balance.

Not that "balance" is the holy grail, either. The idea should be to
encourage our own economic growth. That's what the Chinese are doing, with
exports, so it's a tricky job to keep things on a path that benefits both.

A negative balance of trade is not necessarily a bad thing. Declining
employment is a bad thing. One does not necessarily follow the other,
especially in the medium- and long-term.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote:


I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g, but, in
case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done badly. Except
for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share of GDP hasn't declined
much. Our total manufacturing output continues to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product manufacturing has
been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More of our output has
switched to industrial products. (You can get details on government
websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are based on 80-year-old
manufacturing technology, are a natural for low-wage countries to
manufacture.

And damn hard to automate to the point we are price competitive.

I've never seen people fired due to automation in any plant I worked at but what has been
lost is slots in hiring. We bring in automation, typical attrition for various reasons
lowers the head count and we end up making more product with fewer people.

The US is getting less and less job friendly to people w/o skills. Just being a hard
worker gets you a long time as a temp, then a shot at being factory floor labor if it
works out and you don't **** someone off.

A good education is required to navigate the current job situation. Weak minds and a
strong back get you no where. Especially when poor border control undermines those with a
good work ethic, strong back, and willingness to do the dirty jobs. Not every child is a
College candidate.

Wes




Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:


I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g, but,
in
case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done badly.
Except
for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share of GDP hasn't
declined
much. Our total manufacturing output continues to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...-manufacturing

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product manufacturing has
been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More of our output has
switched to industrial products. (You can get details on government
websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are based on 80-year-old
manufacturing technology, are a natural for low-wage countries to
manufacture.

And damn hard to automate to the point we are price competitive.

I've never seen people fired due to automation in any plant I worked at
but what has been
lost is slots in hiring. We bring in automation, typical attrition for
various reasons
lowers the head count and we end up making more product with fewer people.

The US is getting less and less job friendly to people w/o skills. Just
being a hard
worker gets you a long time as a temp, then a shot at being factory floor
labor if it
works out and you don't **** someone off.

A good education is required to navigate the current job situation. Weak
minds and a
strong back get you no where. Especially when poor border control
undermines those with a
good work ethic, strong back, and willingness to do the dirty jobs. Not
every child is a
College candidate.

Wes

Right. But as always, I can't imagine where the good jobs are going to come
from. I think I've mentioned before that I tend to be overly pessimistic
about that, but the flat, or declining, real incomes of workers are starting
to show us where the limits are, I think. This whole capitalist program
depends on ever-increasing wages, as well as ever-increasing GDP.

It's a worry.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at a
competitive price.

I use vice grips a lot and I have never blanched at the price. I have
however used imitation vice grips and I was less than satisfied with the
result.

--

__
Roger Shoaf

Important factors in selecting a mate:
1] Depth of gene pool
2] Position on the food chain.

On Sep 25, 9:48*am, "SteveB" wrote:
"Randy" wrote in message

news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. * * I emailed Irwin to see what they say. *Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

I have gotten a large number of vise grips through ebay. *One or two here
and there, some larger numbers than that. *Except one, all of them were in
good to excellent shape. *Use the term "vice" grip, also, as there will be
some listed that way. *C clamps, also. *I have gotten the 11r's for $6.
They last, so the current US produced tools will be available for a long
time. *I would never ever go to a store and pay what they want for a new
pair.

Steve

And then you complain about manufacturing moving offshore.

TMT

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at
a
competitive price.

I use vice grips a lot and I have never blanched at the price. I have
however used imitation vice grips and I was less than satisfied with the
result.

I've never minded buying the good ones at full price, either. I still have
every pair I ever bought, plus my father's and my uncle's. My father's are
so old they don't even have the release lever. They're about the same age as
I am. Jeez. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Sep 25, 5:59*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...





"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I can't tell if you're being serious or just garnishing a gripe g, but,
in
case you *are* serious, US manufacturing actually hasn't done badly.
Except
for the blip caused by the rise in finance, its share of GDP hasn't
declined
much. Our total manufacturing output continues to grow:

http://www.aier.org/research/comment...ne-of-manufact....

What's declined sharply is manufacturing employment -- a product of
continually improving productivity. And consumer product manufacturing has
been moving to low-wage countries for decades. More of our output has
switched to industrial products. (You can get details on government
websites.) Something like Vise-Grips, which are based on 80-year-old
manufacturing technology, are a natural for low-wage countries to
manufacture.

And damn hard to automate to the point we are price competitive.

I've never seen people fired due to automation in any plant I worked at
but what has been
lost is slots in hiring. *We bring in automation, typical attrition for
various reasons
lowers the head count and we end up making more product with fewer people.

The US is getting less and less job friendly to people w/o skills. *Just
being a hard
worker gets you a long time as a temp, then a shot at being factory floor
labor if it
works out and you don't **** someone off.

A good education is required to navigate the current job situation. *Weak
minds and a
strong back get you no where. *Especially when poor border control
undermines those with a
good work ethic, strong back, and willingness to do the dirty jobs. *Not
every child is a
College candidate.

Wes

Right. But as always, I can't imagine where the good jobs are going to come
from. I think I've mentioned before that I tend to be overly pessimistic
about that, but the flat, or declining, real incomes of workers are starting
to show us where the limits are, I think. This whole capitalist program
depends on ever-increasing wages, as well as ever-increasing GDP.

It's a worry.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my opinion, it is a VERY BIG worry.

And considering how big a hit US employment has taken recently, those
new jobs will need to be created at a faster rate than normal.

Job creation of good paying jobs is the #1 problem we have today.

TMT


TMT

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:11:41 -0500, the infamous "Pete C."
scrawled the following:


Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Randy" wrote in message
news
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Good grief!

Will nothing be manufactured in the US anymore?

"Social workers" (an oxymoron), the US is very good at producing "Social
workers"...

And they (mostly Democrats), in turn, produce tons of "victims".

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Randy wrote:
Looks like vise grips will be made in China now, the complete factory
is up for auction. I emailed Irwin to see what they say. Let's
see if they reply.

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=8079

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

They have been made in China for the past year.

Irwin is selling off the plant because it has sat idle for a while.

--
Steve W.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:48:33 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
ediainc...
Ed Huntress wrote:

[snip]

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

We just see a lot of Chinese goods because they cater to the low price/low
cost end of the market. The US excels at building the sorts of things that
Caterpillar and Boeing make. But not things like vice grips.

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at a
competitive price.

Bingo. Genuine vise-grips by Petersen Mfg really do work
significantly better than any Chinese knockoffs I've found, so I'm
willing to pay more for them. I'm apparently in a lonely minority with
that opinion, but I probably have enough of them to outlast me.

A lot of people are that way about spending money (not me).
I even hear guys bitching about very reasonable prices at garage sales.. I
don't know what they think a quarter is worth, I don't think I can even
imagine what they must think a dollar is worth.

Knowing what value is, is valuable knowlege.

I end up losing Vise-Grip tools before they break or wear out, maybe because
they're not my favorite tool, as they seem to be for many users.
In most cases, another tool will do a better job than a Vise-Grip plier, but
when they're needed, they're handy to have. For fasteners and fittings, they
cause too much damage, so they're used as a last resort. My main use for
them is they're handy as quick clamps for welding.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...

I would never ever go to a store and pay what they want for a new pair.

That is an interesting economic statement.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:48:33 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
mediainc...
Ed Huntress wrote:

[snip]

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing
output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

We just see a lot of Chinese goods because they cater to the low
price/low
cost end of the market. The US excels at building the sorts of things
that
Caterpillar and Boeing make. But not things like vice grips.

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at a
competitive price.

Bingo. Genuine vise-grips by Petersen Mfg really do work
significantly better than any Chinese knockoffs I've found, so I'm
willing to pay more for them. I'm apparently in a lonely minority with
that opinion, but I probably have enough of them to outlast me.


i recently bought 4 of those pincer kind of vice grips, i bit the bullet and
"bought american". vice grip brand. it "hurt" but i share your opinion,
they work better.

b.w.

"Don Foreman" wrote

Bingo. Genuine vise-grips by Petersen Mfg really do work
significantly better than any Chinese knockoffs I've found, so I'm
willing to pay more for them. I'm apparently in a lonely minority with
that opinion, but I probably have enough of them to outlast me.

Ditto for me. The originals will be around for a long time, and I sure the
hell won't go pay more for Chinese clones. I got enough for my lifetime,
and if I need more, I'll go on ebay.

Steve

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:48:33 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
omediainc...
Ed Huntress wrote:

[snip]

Here's something that seems to surprise everyone: US manufacturing
output
lies between 2.2 and 2.5 times that of China.

We just see a lot of Chinese goods because they cater to the low
price/low
cost end of the market. The US excels at building the sorts of things
that
Caterpillar and Boeing make. But not things like vice grips.

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at
a
competitive price.

Bingo. Genuine vise-grips by Petersen Mfg really do work
significantly better than any Chinese knockoffs I've found, so I'm
willing to pay more for them. I'm apparently in a lonely minority with
that opinion, but I probably have enough of them to outlast me.


i recently bought 4 of those pincer kind of vice grips, i bit the bullet
and "bought american". vice grip brand. it "hurt" but i share your
opinion, they work better.

b.w.

I bought about three dozen various ones on ebay for half or less than
retail.

Steve

Currently on ebay 8 11r clamps $100. Typical, but I've paid less.

Wild_Bill wrote:


Knowing what value is, is valuable knowledge.


That is a mighty powerful thought...

William Wixon wrote:

(...)

i recently bought 4 of those pincer kind of vice grips, i bit the bullet and
"bought american". vice grip brand. it "hurt" but i share your opinion,
they work better.

I used three of the little pincer style 'grips yesterday to duplicate
a wire 'bail' used as part of an enclosure clamp.

Use one 'grip to clamp the replacement wire in parallel with the model,
bend the replacement wire and use the second 'grip to fix it in place
on the model, right at the position of the subsequent bend.
Make the next bend and fix that in place with the third 'grip.
Make the next bend and move the first 'grip to fix the wires in
parallel at the position of the next bend.
Keep bending and moving clamps until you have the right shape.
Trim the ends and you are done. I made two wire bails in about 10
minutes using this method. They both work perfectly.


--Winston

--

I'm still waiting for another sublime, transcendent flash of adequacy.

Deep Thoughts.. (SNL), Heh

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Wild_Bill wrote:


Knowing what value is, is valuable knowledge.


That is a mighty powerful thought...

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not at
a
competitive price.

I use vice grips a lot and I have never blanched at the price. I have
however used imitation vice grips and I was less than satisfied with the
result.

I've never minded buying the good ones at full price, either. I still have
every pair I ever bought, plus my father's and my uncle's. My father's are
so old they don't even have the release lever. They're about the same age as
I am. Jeez. g

When put that way I have to agree. I have every pair I ever
bought used/abused and they all work okay yet. I have my
Dad's too and the true Vise-Grips are all in better working
shape than the off-brand ones. The early China/Japan/Taiwan
versions are in the worst shape. Probably got our moneys
worth out of them though (shrug).

I haven't been buying any new ones because I haven't really
needed any. I did bite on one of these a few weeks ago
though:

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...o?itemid=97609

It has a China patent number stamped into it. I don't think
Vise-Grip has anything quite like it, but I could be
mistaken. Had planned on cutting it in two and adding some
bars in the middle to make it even longer. Figured out
another way to solve my problem though and it is still
intact.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:28:50 -0400, Wes
wrote:

snip
A good education is required to navigate the current job situation. Weak minds and a
strong back get you no where. Especially when poor border control undermines those with a
good work ethic, strong back, and willingness to do the dirty jobs. Not every child is a
College candidate.

What I've seen is that a good education/resume gets you an
interview and possibly the job. What the business really
wants though is someone that doesn't call in sick, follows
instructions, can use a keyboard/computer and does little if
any problem solving on their own. Doesn't make any sense,
but that's the way it is...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:37:15 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

snip
I end up losing Vise-Grip tools before they break or wear out, maybe because
they're not my favorite tool, as they seem to be for many users.
In most cases, another tool will do a better job than a Vise-Grip plier, but
when they're needed, they're handy to have. For fasteners and fittings, they
cause too much damage, so they're used as a last resort. My main use for
them is they're handy as quick clamps for welding.

I've worked with several people that didn't have any
Vise-Grip style tools. When they need to be in two places at
once they go find another person to help. I figure out how
to do things by myself, because there isn't anyone else
around and even it there was they have their own job to do.
Vise-Grip style tools allow you to be in two or more places
at the same time, allowing you to complete the job by
yourself.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

Very true. Actually, the US excels at making vise grips, too, but not
at
a
competitive price.

I use vice grips a lot and I have never blanched at the price. I have
however used imitation vice grips and I was less than satisfied with the
result.

I've never minded buying the good ones at full price, either. I still have
every pair I ever bought, plus my father's and my uncle's. My father's are
so old they don't even have the release lever. They're about the same age
as
I am. Jeez. g

When put that way I have to agree. I have every pair I ever
bought used/abused and they all work okay yet. I have my
Dad's too and the true Vise-Grips are all in better working
shape than the off-brand ones. The early China/Japan/Taiwan
versions are in the worst shape. Probably got our moneys
worth out of them though (shrug).

I haven't been buying any new ones because I haven't really
needed any. I did bite on one of these a few weeks ago
though:

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...o?itemid=97609

It has a China patent number stamped into it. I don't think
Vise-Grip has anything quite like it, but I could be
mistaken.

Wow, that's the Long Dong model. They're pretty rare. g

Had planned on cutting it in two and adding some
bars in the middle to make it even longer. Figured out
another way to solve my problem though and it is still
intact.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Since this thread started I pulled out a couple of my old ones, and it looks
to me like the Chinese, if they're trying to cut costs on these things, are
making a foolish mistake. Vise-Grips are so simple to manufacture that
shaving a few pennies on materials or tooling probably is more a result of
their "make it cheaper" mindset than good economics. But I have to admit
that I haven't looked closely at the Chinese-made models.

The whole thing is mostly blanked steel pieces bent over in a simple forming
die; one piece is a simple forging -- more likely a coining -- and the jaws
are brazed on. Maybe the jaws themselves are a vanadium alloy but the rest
is certainly plain high-carbon steel. The stamping that holds the top jaw is
probably ironed when it's bent.

It was things like this that the Japanese seized on when they started to
move up-market by making quality products. They could make things like that
just as good as Western-made ones, but they still had lower labor costs and
other cost advantages from export assistance and (mostly) bank ownership
that cut their capital costs. Maybe the Chinese are just getting to that
point now.

In any case, given their long life and the importance of their being
well-made, it's still worth it, IMO, to pay for the real thing.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:12:20 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

snip
Since this thread started I pulled out a couple of my old ones, and it looks
to me like the Chinese, if they're trying to cut costs on these things, are
making a foolish mistake. Vise-Grips are so simple to manufacture that
shaving a few pennies on materials or tooling probably is more a result of
their "make it cheaper" mindset than good economics. But I have to admit
that I haven't looked closely at the Chinese-made models.

The ones that haven't held up well (foreign made) are bent.
I would guess that they used lower grade steel in the
stamped pieces (couldn't hold their shape) and rivets. The
holes for the rivets were sloppier which didn't help either.
The jaws become loose along with the frame parts, ie not in
true alignment when clamped down. These were older samples
probably from 15-20 years ago. From what I've seen just
picking up and handling the newer China versions they
addressed some of these short comings. I would have to abuse
some of the new ones a little to figure out if the steel is
any better or not.

I could probably get some pictures of the weak areas if you
are really curious.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email