On 2008-11-04, SteveB toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

I was at my voting place today and saw an unusually large number of
people. Take a lot of drinks with you and other comfort items, it will
be a busy day.

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I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-

Ignoramus14339 wrote:

On 2008-11-04, SteveB toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

I was at my voting place today and saw an unusually large number of
people. Take a lot of drinks with you and other comfort items, it will
be a busy day.

As they say, vote for the person you hate the least. Personally I think
we're pretty well doomed either way, just a little differently each way.

The only way democracy will survive is if we eliminate the politicians,
replace the president with a PR rep, and go to mandatory direct issue
voting, eliminating the need to vote for someone you strongly disagree
with on some issues because you agree with them on other issues. With
the eventual national electronic ID (already got e-passports and the new
passport card), there is no reason we can't get to full electronic
voting from anywhere (ATM, library PC, mall kiosk, home PC, etc.) with
at least the same level of voter identification reliability we have now.
Make voting mandatory (like Australia), and have it on the first day of
each month or similar.

Ignoramus14339 wrote:

On 2008-11-04, SteveB toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.


I was at my voting place today and saw an unusually large number of
people. Take a lot of drinks with you and other comfort items, it will
be a busy day.

I was 6th in line to get a ballot and first to run it
through the machine. Waited about 15 min in a line before
the pols opened.
...lew...

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve
------------------------
Thanks for the service. Its citizens like you that make *ANY* of
this work.

I just had a long conversation with a close friend in Brazil
using MSN messenger about the mechanics of the US elections. The
Brazilians continue to be amazed at the continued problems we
have with such a simple activity as voting.

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting. We might also
usefully look at imposing the voting/ballot systems that some
other countries are successfully using.

Any of our international participants have some suggestions? Is
the lack of a consistent national ID document the problem in the
US?

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve
------------------------
Thanks for the service. Its citizens like you that make *ANY* of
this work.

I just had a long conversation with a close friend in Brazil
using MSN messenger about the mechanics of the US elections. The
Brazilians continue to be amazed at the continued problems we
have with such a simple activity as voting.

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:52:38 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:


Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

"_" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:52:38 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:


Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

--
Ed Huntress

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

You're twice the glutton for punishment that I am. I work from 2:00 P.M.
until everything is counted and recorded. Polls close at 8:00. With luck
we'll have all tallies cross checked and verified by 9:30.

Two years ago, one voter got a ballot without signing the roster - it took
hours to prove and find the error. The voter had come in at 7:58 and needed
same day registration My job. It was well after closing by the time I had
the registration complete and the roster judges had already started their
counts. Somehow, the voter got a ballot from the ballot judge without the
roster receipt. WE LEARNED OUR LESSON. No closing and counting until the
last voter has left the building.

Karl

"Ed Huntress" writes:


Why mandatory voting?

People in comas should be forced to vote!

"Maxwell Lol" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" writes:


Why mandatory voting?

People in comas should be forced to vote!

That would put an unfair burden on a lot of people in this NG. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:42:45 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.


Mandatory voting? Against the 1st Amendment

Sorry

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

_ wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:52:38 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:


Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

They should really have voter de-registration drives. There's too many
mouth breathers that vote in the first place.

Ed Huntress wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve
------------------------
Thanks for the service. Its citizens like you that make *ANY* of
this work.

I just had a long conversation with a close friend in Brazil
using MSN messenger about the mechanics of the US elections. The
Brazilians continue to be amazed at the continued problems we
have with such a simple activity as voting.

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

--
Ed Huntress


I personally favor using voters who are capable of understanding
the basics of any issue. What is the value of a vote by a person
who neigher understands nor cares about an issue or, for that matter,
a party's policies? Yeah, I know, a vote is a vote is a vote, and it
matters not that a comatose or substance-stupefied zombie cast same,
at least to the person or party who "registered" said zombie.

And then, I look around and think "perhaps an IQ test". At that point
I reflect on the many incredibly bright but hopelessly maladjusted and
misguided persons I've met, maybe myself included, and don't really
want THEM ruling my country or the one adjacent.

I think I'll go and rent that Peter Sellers classic movie, "Being
There", again, at least there's some humor to be found. That is, if
it hasn't been removed from the shelves by some zealot.... /mark

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.


Well thanks for putting in a long day and night. Never was one of the poll workers in the
sense I think you mean it, I was a poll challenger years ago. Boy was that boring. The
Dem and me saw things the same way as the ladies running the show.

Saw someone I used to shoot the chit with a lot in years gone by, she was working the
polls. Nice seeing her again. Took 10 minutes tops to vote tonight after work.

We had a guy that voluntered. I've been voting at at the same location for 30 years.
First time a guy was there. So instead of my 'Thank you Ladies' on the way out I had to
do a 'Thank you Ladies and Gentleman'.

I wonder if the problem with long lines in many places is the lack of people that are
willing to step up as you have?

So thank you Steve!

Wes

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you think it would affect
turn out per party?

Wes

Gunner Asch wrote:

Mandatory voting? Against the 1st Amendment

Yes as one of our group tends to say NOTA!

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you think
it would affect
turn out per party?

Wes

I have no idea, Wes. I think that the holiday is a good idea -- or voting on
a weekend like they do in most of the world -- but I can't judge how it
would affect one party versus the other.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" writes:

"Maxwell Lol" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" writes:


Why mandatory voting?

People in comas should be forced to vote!

That would put an unfair burden on a lot of people in this NG. d8-)

Agreed. I think I'm entering a coma after all of these OT posts....

Mark F wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid
for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve
------------------------
Thanks for the service. Its citizens like you that make *ANY* of
this work.

I just had a long conversation with a close friend in Brazil
using MSN messenger about the mechanics of the US elections. The
Brazilians continue to be amazed at the continued problems we
have with such a simple activity as voting.

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

--
Ed Huntress

I personally favor using voters who are capable of understanding
the basics of any issue. What is the value of a vote by a person
who neigher understands nor cares about an issue or, for that matter,
a party's policies? Yeah, I know, a vote is a vote is a vote, and it
matters not that a comatose or substance-stupefied zombie cast same,
at least to the person or party who "registered" said zombie.

And then, I look around and think "perhaps an IQ test". At that point
I reflect on the many incredibly bright but hopelessly maladjusted and
misguided persons I've met, maybe myself included, and don't really
want THEM ruling my country or the one adjacent.

I think I'll go and rent that Peter Sellers classic movie, "Being
There", again, at least there's some humor to be found. That is, if
it hasn't been removed from the shelves by some zealot.... /mark

Perhaps we need to move to multiple votes for each person based on
various criteria.

A read on Nevil Shute's In The Wet can provide some ideas/
everyone gets the basic vote.
Married - an additional one
Children - an additional one
Own your own business - an additional one
Education - an additional one
forgot the 6th reason
the 7th vote could be granted by the Queen(King) of England\\

Howard Garner

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you think
it would affect
turn out per party?

Wes

I have no idea, Wes. I think that the holiday is a good idea -- or voting
on a weekend like they do in most of the world -- but I can't judge how it
would affect one party versus the other.


Yer kidding right? If it was a holiday voter turnout would drop as folks
would all head for the river for the day.

SteveB wrote:
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-


Home after 15 hours. Encouraging when I saw the printouts. McCain by 7/1
to 10/1 on each machine. Then I got home and turned on Fox ...............

God help us.

People think Bush was bad.

Steve


I see you remain the quintessential ignorant ****ing redneck.
Grow a backbone and a brain and accept the change, it's called
democracy by those with an IQ over 100.

Wes wrote:

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Well thanks for putting in a long day and night. Never was one of the poll workers in the
sense I think you mean it, I was a poll challenger years ago. Boy was that boring. The
Dem and me saw things the same way as the ladies running the show.

Saw someone I used to shoot the chit with a lot in years gone by, she was working the
polls. Nice seeing her again. Took 10 minutes tops to vote tonight after work.

We had a guy that voluntered. I've been voting at at the same location for 30 years.
First time a guy was there. So instead of my 'Thank you Ladies' on the way out I had to
do a 'Thank you Ladies and Gentleman'.

I wonder if the problem with long lines in many places is the lack of people that are
willing to step up as you have?

So thank you Steve!


It took me less than five minutes to show my driver's license, have
it verified and fill out the ballot.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-

Home after 15 hours. Encouraging when I saw the printouts. McCain by 7/1
to 10/1 on each machine. Then I got home and turned on Fox ...............

God help us.

People think Bush was bad.

Steve

Ross wrote:
SteveB wrote:

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid
for my country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with
it. I'm going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-



Home after 15 hours. Encouraging when I saw the printouts. McCain by
7/1 to 10/1 on each machine. Then I got home and turned on Fox
...............

God help us.

People think Bush was bad.

Steve

I see you remain the quintessential ignorant ****ing redneck.
Grow a backbone and a brain and accept the change, it's called
democracy by those with an IQ over 100.



Or a disaster.

Depends on your point of view.

And character.



--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:48:28 +1300, Ross wrote:

SteveB wrote:
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. I'm afraid for my
country today. Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-


Home after 15 hours. Encouraging when I saw the printouts. McCain by 7/1
to 10/1 on each machine. Then I got home and turned on Fox ...............

God help us.

People think Bush was bad.

Steve


I see you remain the quintessential ignorant ****ing redneck.
Grow a backbone and a brain and accept the change, it's called
democracy by those with an IQ over 100.

Yer both right. It is democracy and God help us. Hope is not a
strategy, but that's what we're working with now.

BTW, my IQ was a bit north of 100 when last checked, but that was a
long time ago. G

Yer both right. It is democracy and God help us. Hope is not a
strategy, but that's what we're working with now.

BTW, my IQ was a bit north of 100 when last checked, but that was a
long time ago. G

My IQ was way over 100 until my son became a teenager. Then I got real dumb.
I'm getting smarter now, he's 25.

Karl

On Nov 5, 3:42 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"



Any of our international participants have some suggestions? Is
the lack of a consistent national ID document the problem in the
US?

It should be simple, but you guys insist in making things complicated
with this miserable fear of the federal government and the "right" to
have "freedom of choice" - whatever that means.

Here in OZ (where the sun always shines) the AEC (a federal government
statutory authority) keeps a register of all eligible voters. They
also decide electoral boundaries, trying to keep to the maxim "One
person one vote" On voting day, in your electorate, your name gets
crossed of an alphabetical list. ID? - drivers license will do. You
then fill out PAPER ballots, which can be re-counted if disputed. No
results are announced until all polling stations are closed.

Its simple, it works. You guys can put a man on the moon, but cannot
cooperate enough to run a paper electoral system....you guys ARE
funny, sometimes.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Nov 5, 4:55 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"_" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:52:38 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

--
Ed Huntress

The flaw there is a well organised pressure group can easily have
influence out of all proportion to its numbers, the Fundamentalist
Christians and your Republican Party spring to mind. Plus, voting in
the US is such a tedious businesses - its mid week so you drop a days
pay, and have to que for hours due to your silly state run systems,
each with its own bugs.

And if you don't want to vote, thats fine - get your name crossed off
the list, put an empty ballot paper in the box. Oh, and its usually on
a Saturday so no one is disadvantaged. Cant make it that particular
Saturday - easy as, just fill in an absentee voter form.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Andrew VK3BFA.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 5, 4:55 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"_" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:52:38 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

Voters in initiative states such as California may want to
consider a petition drive to force the state to adopt the
Brazilian system including mandatory voting.

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

--
Ed Huntress

The flaw there is a well organised pressure group can easily have
influence out of all proportion to its numbers, the Fundamentalist
Christians and your Republican Party spring to mind.

If the influence is achieved "easily" (in fact, it is not), then shame on
those who allow the influence to be aligned against them. They can "easily"
assert themselves as well as the pressure group can.

Forcing people to vote is just a petit form of tyrany. It may be
majoritarian but it certainly is not liberty.

Plus, voting in
the US is such a tedious businesses - its mid week so you drop a days
pay, and have to que for hours due to your silly state run systems,
each with its own bugs.

And if you don't want to vote, thats fine - get your name crossed off
the list, put an empty ballot paper in the box. Oh, and its usually on
a Saturday so no one is disadvantaged. Cant make it that particular
Saturday - easy as, just fill in an absentee voter form.

And what fine results your system has produced for you. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you think
it would affect
turn out per party?

Wes

I have no idea, Wes. I think that the holiday is a good idea -- or voting
on a weekend like they do in most of the world -- but I can't judge how
it would affect one party versus the other.


Yer kidding right? If it was a holiday voter turnout would drop as folks
would all head for the river for the day.

You're kidding, right? Considering what many people just went through to
vote, I don't know where you get that idea.

Now, if *you* would head for the river for the day, we're happy to have you
not voting. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:44:15 -0500, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you think it would affect
turn out per party?

It would likely boost the party which declared the holiday the first
year. After that, people would be partying, not voting.

President Obama gave a really touching minute of praise to McCain (as
a patriot) in his acceptance speech. Ah teared up, ah did.

With a liberal new President and 60ish% Dem control of both houses of
CONgress, on top of the 2 wars + the recession, we're in for a wild
ride.

Hold on to your hats, guys.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:37:32 -0500, the infamous Howard Garner
scrawled the following:

Perhaps we need to move to multiple votes for each person based on
various criteria.

A read on Nevil Shute's In The Wet can provide some ideas/
everyone gets the basic vote.
Married - an additional one
Children - an additional one
Own your own business - an additional one
Education - an additional one
forgot the 6th reason
the 7th vote could be granted by the Queen(King) of England\\

E FRACKIN gad! How many votes would this outstanding person get?

Qualifications:
a) welfare mothers with 8 children
b) married, but hubby ran off
c) sells crack and prostitutes on the side (2 businesses)
d) bought fake PhD on Internet
e) is alive

That looks like she'd get 5 votes. Nevil should be ashamed.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

On Nov 4, 11:48*pm, Ross wrote:
SteveB wrote:
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

I'm off to a 14 hour day working as an election worker. *I'm afraid for my
country today. *Vote for whoever you believe in, and live with it. *I'm
going to vote for the man who is proud to be an American.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-

Home after 15 hours. *Encouraging when I saw the printouts. *McCain by 7/1
to 10/1 on each machine. *Then I got home and turned on Fox ................

God help us.

People think Bush was bad.

Steve

I see you remain the quintessential ignorant ****ing redneck.
Grow a backbone and a brain and accept the change, it's called
democracy by those with an IQ over 100.

Ross, Obama was a better choice than McCain and the she-cheney for
many reasons, but his strong liberalism worries me to no end, and
should worry you too, if your IQ is above 100.

Obama sure as hell isn't the be-all and end-all and cure-all, and I
think very little is going to change.

Will he:
- give up the extraordinary executive power taken by the last 3-4
presidencies? HELL NO!
- put an end to America, by the corporartions, for the corporations?
HELL NO!
- put an end to unwarranted wiretaps, or stop the NSA and army from
doing domestic surveillance/reconnaissance? HELL NO!
- give us an administration bound by the rule of law, restore
accountability, and abide by the intent of the constitution? maybe.

There were plenty of perfectly valid reasons to vote against obama,
and I disagree with Steve that it's going to be worse than under bush
or would have been under mccain, but you can take your puerile
playground insults and use them where some idiots might think you have
something useful or insightful to say, there must be a schoolyard near
you somewhere.

Dave

On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 04:12:14 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Nov 5, 3:42 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"



Any of our international participants have some suggestions? Is
the lack of a consistent national ID document the problem in the
US?

It should be simple, but you guys insist in making things complicated
with this miserable fear of the federal government and the "right" to
have "freedom of choice" - whatever that means.

Here in OZ (where the sun always shines) the AEC (a federal government
statutory authority) keeps a register of all eligible voters. They
also decide electoral boundaries, trying to keep to the maxim "One
person one vote" On voting day, in your electorate, your name gets
crossed of an alphabetical list. ID? - drivers license will do. You
then fill out PAPER ballots, which can be re-counted if disputed. No
results are announced until all polling stations are closed.

Its simple, it works. You guys can put a man on the moon, but cannot
cooperate enough to run a paper electoral system....you guys ARE
funny, sometimes.

Andrew VK3BFA.
----------
Thanks for the insight. In many cases a different viewpoint is
necessary to see a problem.

While the phrase "this miserable fear of the federal government
and the "right" to have "freedom of choice" - whatever that
means," appears correct as the common ==excuse/rationale== for
the current cobbled together system, the actual underlying reason
may well be tacit cooperation between the Republican and
Democratic political machines to keep third parties and their
candidates from attaining electoral office through the current
arcane and baroque system.

As you point out, paper ballots not only remain a valid process,
but also provide an audit trail and can be recounted as
necessary, although these can be machine processed using
inexpensive optical scanners or consumer grade printer/scanners
or 3n1 machines with automatic sheet feed. [This may also be a
problem in that this would eliminate the highly lucrative voting
machine market, with the kickbacks.]

Several years ago I was in Canada during one of their elections,
and even the multilingual areas such as Quebec did not have the
systemic and pervasive problems so common in the US.

Of particular concern is that the US voting problems seem to be
getting worse and more opaque, not better and more transparent.

Its apparent to me that it is going to require a voter initiative
to cram the paper ballot system and workable/transparent voting
up the US politicians noses [I said noses] just like term limits
were. This of necessity must include a standard ballot format
and size so most any scanner [with the proper software] can be
used for counting, and oversight on the wording of ballot
indicative [no more "yes, we have no bananas" syntax], with a
Flesch reading score limited to not more that grade 8. [Most word
processor programs have a reading level checking option built
in.]
http://rfptemplates.technologyevalua...ity-Score.html
http://rfptemplates.technologyevalua...lty-Score.html
Indeed, a maximum reading level difficulty could be established
for *ALL* statues and regulations.



Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 04:12:14 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Nov 5, 3:42 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:33:25 -0800, "SteveB"



Any of our international participants have some suggestions? Is
the lack of a consistent national ID document the problem in the
US?

It should be simple, but you guys insist in making things complicated
with this miserable fear of the federal government and the "right" to
have "freedom of choice" - whatever that means.

Here in OZ (where the sun always shines) the AEC (a federal government
statutory authority) keeps a register of all eligible voters. They
also decide electoral boundaries, trying to keep to the maxim "One
person one vote" On voting day, in your electorate, your name gets
crossed of an alphabetical list. ID? - drivers license will do. You
then fill out PAPER ballots, which can be re-counted if disputed. No
results are announced until all polling stations are closed.

Its simple, it works. You guys can put a man on the moon, but cannot
cooperate enough to run a paper electoral system....you guys ARE
funny, sometimes.

Andrew VK3BFA.
----------
Thanks for the insight. In many cases a different viewpoint is
necessary to see a problem.

While the phrase "this miserable fear of the federal government
and the "right" to have "freedom of choice" - whatever that
means," appears correct as the common ==excuse/rationale== for
the current cobbled together system, the actual underlying reason
may well be tacit cooperation between the Republican and
Democratic political machines to keep third parties and their
candidates from attaining electoral office through the current
arcane and baroque system.

Picking a very large nit, the reason we don't have viable third parties is
because they don't work in a bicameral, federal, presidential system. They
lead to deadlock.

To make them work you need something like a modern parliamentary system.
I've studied those systems, traveled throughout Europe researching and
writing about them, and I want nothing to do with them. They're fine in
small- to medium-sized countries. They're fine in homogeneous societies.
They're fine when the structures of power are ancient and traditional. They
are not fine here.

--
Ed Huntress

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:37:32 -0500, the infamous Howard Garner
scrawled the following:

Perhaps we need to move to multiple votes for each person based on
various criteria.

A read on Nevil Shute's In The Wet can provide some ideas/
everyone gets the basic vote.
Married - an additional one
Children - an additional one
Own your own business - an additional one
Education - an additional one
forgot the 6th reason
the 7th vote could be granted by the Queen(King) of England\\

E FRACKIN gad! How many votes would this outstanding person get?

Qualifications:
a) welfare mothers with 8 children
b) married, but hubby ran off
c) sells crack and prostitutes on the side (2 businesses)
d) bought fake PhD on Internet
e) is alive

That looks like she'd get 5 votes. Nevil should be ashamed.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

Went back and grabbed the book off the shelf.

Your person would only get 1 vote - the basic.


This is a corrected version of the seven votes.
Each of the additional has to be registered with the authorities

Basic - everybody gets this
Education - college degree
Foreign Travel - live outside the country for two years straight
Family - Raise two children to age 14 without a divorce
Achievement - Earned income over xxx (5000 pounds when this was written
in 1953)
Church Official - Any recognized church - including church wardens,
ministers, etc
7th Vote - Granted by the Queen at her discretion - rare.

Howard

Howard Garner wrote:

This is a corrected version of the seven votes.
Each of the additional has to be registered with the authorities

Basic - everybody gets this
Education - college degree
Foreign Travel - live outside the country for two years straight
Family - Raise two children to age 14 without a divorce
Achievement - Earned income over xxx (5000 pounds when this was written
in 1953)
Church Official - Any recognized church - including church wardens,
ministers, etc

Now that's scary! How about replacing that with service in Armed
Forces or Peace Corp equivalent?

7th Vote - Granted by the Queen at her discretion - rare.


Pete


--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

Richard Feynman.(1918-1988)

Personal Observations on the Reliability of the (Space) Shuttle.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you
think it would affect
turn out per party?

Wes

I have no idea, Wes. I think that the holiday is a good idea -- or
voting on a weekend like they do in most of the world -- but I can't
judge how it would affect one party versus the other.


Yer kidding right? If it was a holiday voter turnout would drop as folks
would all head for the river for the day.

You're kidding, right? Considering what many people just went through to
vote, I don't know where you get that idea.

Now, if *you* would head for the river for the day, we're happy to have
you not voting. d8-)

We? You got a mouse in your pocket? Seriously, this country takes its
freedoms for granted. I honestly don't think a voting holiday would produce
a net increase at the poles. Even a blue law style holiday.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Why mandatory voting?

Might cut down on the mandatory whingeing which follows...

If someone cares so little about it that they won't vote on their own
initiative, I'm happy to let them stay out of it.

I feel the same way.

Out of curiosity, if election day was a Federal holiday how do you
think it would affect
turn out per party?

Wes

I have no idea, Wes. I think that the holiday is a good idea -- or
voting on a weekend like they do in most of the world -- but I can't
judge how it would affect one party versus the other.


Yer kidding right? If it was a holiday voter turnout would drop as
folks would all head for the river for the day.

You're kidding, right? Considering what many people just went through to
vote, I don't know where you get that idea.

Now, if *you* would head for the river for the day, we're happy to have
you not voting. d8-)

We? You got a mouse in your pocket? Seriously, this country takes its
freedoms for granted. I honestly don't think a voting holiday would
produce a net increase at the poles. Even a blue law style holiday.

Eighty seven percent of California voters went to the polls yesterday.
That's what a report I saw this morning said anyway.
Should that number hold up, everyone in California voted as a practical
matter.
How would anyone increase a effective turnout of 100 percent?

Early voting, both by mail and drop off balloting, has changed the game.


JC