I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:57:05 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

This sounds like a project best left to the PROFESSIONALS that do this
type of thing. Have this done by a company that knows all the
regulations and codes etc. They should also be able to answer all your
questions before you contract them to install it.

"Do it yourself" could have serious and dangerous implications.
Dave

In article ,
"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Storing gasoline IN A TANK is a lot easier than storing it in a vehicle.
The bad stuff tends to stay in the tank and not clog the carb. Stabil
works, you might have to add more each year.

There are many hazards to doing this, but I have done it and if you
think it through it can be done.

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On 2008-08-12, Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

I never had problems running my boat on 2 year old gas.

i

nick hull wrote:
In article ,
"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Storing gasoline IN A TANK is a lot easier than storing it in a vehicle.
The bad stuff tends to stay in the tank and not clog the carb. Stabil
works, you might have to add more each year.

Stabil is a better product than even a few years ago.

There are many hazards to doing this, but I have done it and if you
think it through it can be done.

Nick, I sure wish you'd elaborate since you've already done the heavy
thinking

Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Diesel makes more sense for long-term storage. the safety and code
aspects are a big deal too.

Have you considered changing your engines to diesels over time?

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel
life (in an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at
a constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl


I think there is a limit regarding storage and a step up in regulations.
Something like 500 gallons takes minimal precautions etc. Never really
thought about it, but I know a lot of the farmers in the midwest have a 500
gallon tank for their tractor(s), and I think most of them used to just sit
on stands. Been a while and I never really asked.

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel
life (in an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at
a constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

I think there is a limit regarding storage and a step up in regulations.
Something like 500 gallons takes minimal precautions etc. Never really
thought about it, but I know a lot of the farmers in the midwest have a 500
gallon tank for their tractor(s), and I think most of them used to just sit
on stands. Been a while and I never really asked.

You're thinking of diesel tanks. Gasoline is a much bigger pain in the
butt to store in any quantity.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:22:51 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus6985 quickly quoth:

On 2008-08-12, Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

I never had problems running my boat on 2 year old gas.

I've stored and used 3-year-old gas for my mower outside in an
air-vented shed with no problems, either. 20F to 105F is the normal
range of temps. I've never even seen a can of Stabil and my state of
the art Murray mower with the B&S engine starts on the first pull
every time I've primed it enough. I never have drained the mower,
either.

--
Pain makes man think. Thought makes man wise. Wisdom makes life endurable.
-- John Patrick

The active in Stabil and others is BHT, available from health food stores.
One teaspoon treats ten gallons.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:57:05 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

I store my boat outdoors over winter with a full tank of stabilized
gasoline. The idea is to prevent condensation in the tank. Been
doing that for a decade now, no problems.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:57:05 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl




Someone's got to ask... Why bother? What's the payback based on the cost of
the tank, cost of the money up front to buy the gas, etc.?


regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

--Howzabout 'storing' it as a seed packet; i.e. grow your fuel as
you need it. Heh. Technically complicated for a 'home user' I suppose but it
seems to me a lot of small systems are becoming available.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : "Hold on! we're passing
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : through the moronosphere!"
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On 2008-08-12, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:22:51 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus6985 quickly quoth:

On 2008-08-12, Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

I never had problems running my boat on 2 year old gas.

I've stored and used 3-year-old gas for my mower outside in an
air-vented shed with no problems, either. 20F to 105F is the normal
range of temps. I've never even seen a can of Stabil and my state of
the art Murray mower with the B&S engine starts on the first pull
every time I've primed it enough. I never have drained the mower,
either.


Smoewhat relatd, but I think that current fuel prices are not
sustainable and will go down. I would not buy fuel as an investment.

i

"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

And iirc, stablil it self has a shelf life. Use fresh stuff to treat.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Storing fuels on a farm:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/warner43.html
General precautions (w/some references to NFPA/local code limitations)
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000701...0/d000760.html
http://cbs4.com/hurricanepreps/gasol....2.394472.html
http://www.mapllc.com/Stations_and_S...g_of_Gasoline/
http://www.slate.com/id/2196815/
http://theepicenter.com/tow06056.html
Ethanol-enhanced gasoline storage issues:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_n19505958
http://commerce.wi.gov/ERpdf/bst/Pro...geOverview.pdf

Worst case scenarios and risk/benefit analysis?

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:32:21 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth:

"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

And iirc, stablil it self has a shelf life. Use fresh stuff to treat.

So what the hell good is the crap, anyway? sigh

--
Pain makes man think. Thought makes man wise. Wisdom makes life endurable.
-- John Patrick

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life
(in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage
at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl






Occasional agitation is recommended. Not violent, just enough to "mix" it
a bit. Stuff separates into "layers", (due to specific gravity differences
of the components) when it sits still, like in a barrel, and is difficult to
recombine. Farm uses, where there is an occasional take-some-out,
put-some-in seems to keep stuff stirred moderately well.

Although separation is far less significant in 100LL Aviation gasoline.
nobody seems to know exactly why, in this case.

Flash

In article ,
steamer wrote:

--Howzabout 'storing' it as a seed packet; i.e. grow your fuel as
you need it. Heh. Technically complicated for a 'home user' I suppose but it
seems to me a lot of small systems are becoming available.

Good idea, but not gasoline; make butanol instead, from weeds. 100%
interchangeable with gasoline

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

We used to store gasoline in a 300 gallon tank on the farm. We were
told that you'd loose up to 10% of the fuel per year due to evaporation.
You MUST have the tank ventilated, so you will loose some, too. You
can minimize the evaporation by putting a roof over the container. But,
since the tank is "breathing" as the temp goes up and down, you suck in
water vapor, which condenses and goes to the bottom. We used the fuel
up on a regular basis, so, with an annual treatment with a few bottles
of gas line anti freeze once a year it wasn't a problem. But it may
well be in storage.

I, too have fired up engines that have sat for 2 years or more with old
gas. Might not start as well at 30 below, but worked for me.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------

Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage at a
constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:32:21 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth:

"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more years
of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel life (in
an engine) to 15 months.

And iirc, stablil it self has a shelf life. Use fresh stuff to treat.

So what the hell good is the crap, anyway? sigh

http://www.goldeagle.com/sta-bil/faq...t=sta-bil&ID=9

They say it has a shelf life. See link above.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Stupendous Man" wrote:

The active in Stabil and others is BHT, available from health food stores.
One teaspoon treats ten gallons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butylated_hydroxytoluene

Can one of the chemists that monitor this group explain this for non chemists?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Aug 13, 4:44*pm, Wes wrote:
"Stupendous Man" wrote:
The active in Stabil and others is BHT, available from health food stores.
One teaspoon treats ten gallons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butylated_hydroxytoluene

Can one of the chemists that monitor this group explain this for non chemists?

Wes

In common terms, it keeps fats and oils from going rancid.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel
life (in an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage
at
a constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

I think there is a limit regarding storage and a step up in regulations.
Something like 500 gallons takes minimal precautions etc. Never really
thought about it, but I know a lot of the farmers in the midwest have a
500
gallon tank for their tractor(s), and I think most of them used to just
sit
on stands. Been a while and I never really asked.

My grandfather had an elevated gasoline tank on his farm for filling his
tractor in Ohio. I know most of his gentleman farmer buddies did too.
Don't recall if he ever said how big it was, but I would guess 500 gallons.

Yep -
My Aunt & Uncle and all of their kids had dairy farms. They had diesel and gas.
Large tanks. A working farm or ranch has large tanks as they get delivery
once a month or once a quarter.
They were in Wisconsin. And the tanks were outside by the equipment barn.

They are all out of the farms now - small farms overwhelmed by large corporates.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Bob La Londe wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...
Bob La Londe wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel
life (in an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage
at
a constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl
I think there is a limit regarding storage and a step up in regulations.
Something like 500 gallons takes minimal precautions etc. Never really
thought about it, but I know a lot of the farmers in the midwest have a
500
gallon tank for their tractor(s), and I think most of them used to just
sit
on stands. Been a while and I never really asked.

My grandfather had an elevated gasoline tank on his farm for filling his
tractor in Ohio. I know most of his gentleman farmer buddies did too.
Don't recall if he ever said how big it was, but I would guess 500 gallons.




----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:18:07 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
"Pete C." wrote...
Bob La Londe wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote...

I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing fuel
life (in an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will storage
at a constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

I think there is a limit regarding storage and a step up in regulations.
Something like 500 gallons takes minimal precautions etc. Never really
thought about it, but I know a lot of the farmers in the midwest have a
500 gallon tank for their tractor(s), and I think most of them used to
just sit on stands. Been a while and I never really asked.

My grandfather had an elevated gasoline tank on his farm for filling his
tractor in Ohio. I know most of his gentleman farmer buddies did too.
Don't recall if he ever said how big it was, but I would guess 500 gallons.

You still see them, but they are full of Diesel fuel - which is a
Whole Lot Less volatile than Gasoline. Diesel is rated 'combustible,
a much higher flash point than gasoline at 'flammable'.

The minimum safe setup for long term semi-permanent gasoline storage
at ground level is a double-wall steel tank, with an outer containment
tank in case the inside tank leaks.

An industry standard 4" emergency fire vent on any large tank is a
really good idea, because you want the fuel to boil and vent as vapor
in a fire rather than rupture the tank. Better a big torch in one
spot than a spreading lake of fire headed toward the house...

And if you buy a DOT Transport Approved tank mounted on a trailer,
now it is a "portable" tank and you can side-step many of the local
fire regulations - not that they won't try, but you can always hitch
it up and move it.

L.A. City codes are in that Uber-Strict category, so I'm looking at
the Acme Trailer mobile fuel tank available from Northern Tool -
http://acmetrailer.biz/gallery.php?item=eze-gas
Just need to add the emergency vent and surge brakes.

If your local fire codes are really strict (and they allow you fuel;
storage at all...) they insist on either a "ConVault" tank - double
wall with lightweight perlite concrete insulation between the walls
as a fire break, and all the leak monitoring gear. And they might
also require a poured concrete pad and containment dike with a rain
drain valve.

Or a full-on buried double-wall fiberglass tank like you find at a
gas station, with the same electronic leak monitoring gear. But good
luck trying to get liability insurance on an underground gasoline tank
at a residence, your homeowners' carrier will drop you like a red-hot
rock.

You can install an underground tank for farm or commercial use, but
if you want insurance to cover the liability I'm betting that the
premiums will more than cancel out any possible long term savings on
fuel. There's just too much liability for leaks.

-- Bruce --

The issue is not how large the tank is but how stabile and dangerous the
gasoline is. Gasoline contains many different chemical species. Some of
these species are olefins which over time tend to polymerize and form gums
that can plug small orifices like fuel injectors. Reactions of olefins or
other species known as diolefins can also react with oxygen to form various
types of acids. It is difficult to keep oxygen out of the tank because of
the slight expansion and contraction of the gasoline with temperature. A low
and constant temperature will tend to inhibit the polymerization as well as
preventing the tank from breathing. I would say that keeping gasoline stored
for over 3 months will start the polymerization process. If you have ever
had the opportunity to smell gasoline that is quite old ( a year or two) you
will notice the sharp rancid smell, those are acids and other bad actors .
It may also be against environmental rules to have an underground storage
tank in your area. Be sure if you put in the ground (if it is in the air
temperature variation could be 20 degrees or more between night and day) it
is held down firmly because in the event of ground water build up it may pop
out of the ground and may even rupture.

In my opinion even if the fuel mileage for cars were to double in the next
three years and the price of gasoline was $4 a gallon the savings you might
realize is not worth the risk of storage nor the damage to that brand new
high efficiency automobile you just spent several thousand dollars for.
Don't forget to account for the amount of interest you might realize if you
took the money you spend for the 500 gallons of gasoline now and instead put
it in the bank to realize some interest compounded over 3 years.

On the point of danger - gasoline has about 15 time energy per pound than
dynamite. Since gasoline weighs about 6.5 pounds per gallon the 500 gallons
will have the equivalent energy of over 45,000 pounds of dynamite. It is
true it may not be released as suddenly as dynamite but be sure an put the
500 gallon tank far away from anything you might not want to damage and
especially far away from any potential sources of ignition.


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of getting a large gasoline tank, enough for two or more
years of use. Looking at the stabil product, they claim increasing
fuel
life (in an engine) to 15 months.

Are there other things to increase fuel life? For example, will
storage at
a constant 45 degrees help? What problems will old fuel cause?

Karl

I think there is a limit regarding storage and a step up in regulations.
Something like 500 gallons takes minimal precautions etc. Never really
thought about it, but I know a lot of the farmers in the midwest have a
500
gallon tank for their tractor(s), and I think most of them used to just
sit
on stands. Been a while and I never really asked.

My grandfather had an elevated gasoline tank on his farm for filling his
tractor in Ohio. I know most of his gentleman farmer buddies did too.
Don't recall if he ever said how big it was, but I would guess 500
gallons.