I came across two interesting situations recently and I wonder how common
they are in general:

1) After walking into my local Fastenal and completing a small purchase I
noticed that the total was in excess of what I would expect the sum of the
components plus taxes to be. A close inspection of the bill showed that I
had been charged additional 15% for "shipping and handling". When I queried
this I was told that this is "fuel surcharge". Thus the cost of each item
went up by 15% without it being shown anywhere in the shop.

2) Honda car service. One of the simple ones, change oil and check tires.
Again the total was higher than the advertised and agreed to price. This
time I found an item "consumables" amounting to about 10% of the price. On
querying this I was shown a small print item on the service contract. Not
that anyone pointed this out before signing.

I understand that we all have to make a living, cost of fuel is going up
etc. etc. I just find it kind of objectionable bordering on dishonest how
these price increases are hidden. They get away with it by making the extra
charge small so that most busy people either will not notice or simply will
not bother.

Is this a common practice elsewhere?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
I came across two interesting situations recently and I wonder how common
they are in general:

1) After walking into my local Fastenal and completing a small purchase I
noticed that the total was in excess of what I would expect the sum of the
components plus taxes to be. A close inspection of the bill showed that I
had been charged additional 15% for "shipping and handling". When I
queried this I was told that this is "fuel surcharge". Thus the cost of
each item went up by 15% without it being shown anywhere in the shop.

2) Honda car service. One of the simple ones, change oil and check tires.
Again the total was higher than the advertised and agreed to price. This
time I found an item "consumables" amounting to about 10% of the price. On
querying this I was shown a small print item on the service contract. Not
that anyone pointed this out before signing.

I understand that we all have to make a living, cost of fuel is going up
etc. etc. I just find it kind of objectionable bordering on dishonest how
these price increases are hidden. They get away with it by making the
extra charge small so that most busy people either will not notice or
simply will not bother.

Is this a common practice elsewhere?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Here in NJ, charging that first 15% would be a criminal offense. They can
only charge the marked price plus tax in a retail sale, unless you have a
written contract stating otherwise. They could wind up paying a fine.

As for the "consumables," we do have a line for materials costs on service
station bills, but that's the oil itself, and the tires. If they added wheel
weights or lug nuts, they'd charge for them. Most service does involve other
small things, but they have to be identifiable individually, not just a
general add-on.

--
Ed Huntress

"Michael Koblic" wrote:

Is this a common practice elsewhere?


Screwing consumers? Well I thought it was a US thing. Looks like Canada joined the
party. Sorry.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Michael Koblic wrote:
I came across two interesting situations recently and I wonder how common
they are in general:

1) After walking into my local Fastenal and completing a small purchase I
noticed that the total was in excess of what I would expect the sum of the
components plus taxes to be. A close inspection of the bill showed that I
had been charged additional 15% for "shipping and handling". When I queried
this I was told that this is "fuel surcharge". Thus the cost of each item
went up by 15% without it being shown anywhere in the shop.

2) Honda car service. One of the simple ones, change oil and check tires.
Again the total was higher than the advertised and agreed to price. This
time I found an item "consumables" amounting to about 10% of the price. On
querying this I was shown a small print item on the service contract. Not
that anyone pointed this out before signing.

I understand that we all have to make a living, cost of fuel is going up
etc. etc. I just find it kind of objectionable bordering on dishonest how
these price increases are hidden. They get away with it by making the extra
charge small so that most busy people either will not notice or simply will
not bother.

Is this a common practice elsewhere?

Were you in the US I'd advise you to contact your state's attorney
general, or your district attorney's office.

I don't know who would be responsible for that sort of stuff in Canada,
if it's illegal, or if the folks responsible for enforcing that law care.

Besides, I'd be stymied by trying to figure out if I needed a solicitor
or a barrister.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

I'm curious, how do you think a small business should do it?

My costs are up SHARPLY. I feel if I just raise prices 25% my customers
will bolt. I'm thinking of ways to disguise part of the increase and not
chase everybody away. In my case, I used to give oversize packaging; buy a
10# peck, you get 12# of apples. I also used to be very fussy on grading out
ANY defect.

My plan, at this point, is to reduce the package size, let minor defects go,
and only raise prices slightly, just under 10%.

Every other small business is in the same boat. For my 2 cents, I think
we're looking at serious inflation after the fall elections. Ag products
just seem to be getting hit first. (been to the grocery lately?)

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm curious, how do you think a small business should do it?

My costs are up SHARPLY. I feel if I just raise prices 25% my
customers will bolt. I'm thinking of ways to disguise part of the
increase and not chase everybody away. In my case, I used to give
oversize packaging; buy a 10# peck, you get 12# of apples. I also
used to be very fussy on grading out ANY defect.

My plan, at this point, is to reduce the package size, let minor
defects go, and only raise prices slightly, just under 10%.

Every other small business is in the same boat. For my 2 cents, I
think we're looking at serious inflation after the fall elections. Ag
products just seem to be getting hit first. (been to the grocery
lately?)


Karl I've been watching my supplier prices go through the roof for over a
year now.
I'm finishing up a project right now that has a large Nickel 200 part in it
and I was originally quoted about 5K in October 2007 for the material.
I ordered in December and when delivered the price was $8,300.00.
Stainless Steel and Aluminum have also been climbing steeply although the
curve looks a little different on a calendar.


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm curious, how do you think a small business should do it?

My costs are up SHARPLY. I feel if I just raise prices 25% my customers
will bolt. I'm thinking of ways to disguise part of the increase and not
chase everybody away. In my case, I used to give oversize packaging; buy a
10# peck, you get 12# of apples. I also used to be very fussy on grading
out ANY defect.

My plan, at this point, is to reduce the package size, let minor defects
go, and only raise prices slightly, just under 10%.

Every other small business is in the same boat. For my 2 cents, I think
we're looking at serious inflation after the fall elections. Ag products
just seem to be getting hit first. (been to the grocery lately?)

Karl



Karl - let me answer this as a buyer - some folks care about price only,
some care about quality. If I go to a place for cheap stuff, I go for
price, but if I go to a place expecting quality (and I'm willing to pay for
it) and I find less quality, I just won't be back. If I've been a customer
for decades I might go back once, 6 months later, and if things are back to
normal tell the owner/manager why I was absent, if not back to normal, I
won't go back for at least 10 years, maybe never.

so, what does that mean to you - I'd be very cautious about giving up on
quality - you might offer "seconds" at a lower price and see how that goes,
but your reputation will be hard to restore if you let your quality control
slide - just look at what happened to the American auto industry




** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Michael Koblic writes:

This time I found an item "consumables" amounting to about 10% of
the price.

That little dishonesty has been around for years. Maybe the economic
pressures of late have been making it appear more.

It's just small enough of an increment to avoid ticking off the average
customer so much that they won't actually dispute it.

Here in Florida we have a special courtroom at the county courthouse
where you can get your car back by court order, the same day in a
dispute with a repair shop, as long as you agree to have the case
decided by the judge. I've never had to invoke that, but this sort of
nickel-dime thing (I guess that would be $1-$5 thing in today's inflated
money) would have me considering it.

Any repair and service biz is a classic case of "information asymmetry",
with regards to tricks played against the consumer. They experts at
practicing the scam, you're just an occasional amateur stumbling into
their expertise.

Michael Koblic wrote:
...
2) Honda car service. ... "consumables" amounting to about 10% of the price.
....

Yeah, I've experienced that & was put off, to say the least. That's
supposed to be part of the cost of doing business. I.e., overhead.
Included in the markup on wages & parts.

Got to thinking about it & here's what I think that we can expect next,
as far as extra charges permitted by the fine print:
-electricity
-heat
-insurance
-mortgage
This is fertile ground to be exploited.

Bob

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:35:44 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

I came across two interesting situations recently and I wonder how common
they are in general:

1) After walking into my local Fastenal and completing a small purchase I
noticed that the total was in excess of what I would expect the sum of the
components plus taxes to be. A close inspection of the bill showed that I
had been charged additional 15% for "shipping and handling".

About six weeks ago I made a similar in store purchase and was charged
a shipping and handling fee. I ask the counter girl why and she
apologized and refunded the charge.

You might want to go back to the store and speak to the manager and
perhaps you will have better luck getting a refund.

Worth a try if the cost of going back does not exceed the amount in
dispute. Maybe even if it does!

Errol Groff

The local power company has been doing stuff like that for years. They
charge for the electricity we use, then again for the fuel used to
make the electricity, usually around 200% of the electricity cost then
another "customer charge" of $6 to send the bill.

They go up on rates as they see fit. Months later the Public Service
Commission finds that they were unwarranted in the increase but does
not force the power company to return the money, just issue credit.

Local tire stores have been charging "shop supply" fee here for years.
To me, all of this is dishonest. If an oil change is advertised to
cost $19.99 it should be that price, not $19.99 plus $4 shop supply
fee, $6 fuel surcharge and $5 disposal fee

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:52:58 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I'm curious, how do you think a small business should do it?

My costs are up SHARPLY. I feel if I just raise prices 25% my customers
will bolt. I'm thinking of ways to disguise part of the increase and not
chase everybody away. In my case, I used to give oversize packaging; buy a
10# peck, you get 12# of apples. I also used to be very fussy on grading out
ANY defect.

My plan, at this point, is to reduce the package size, let minor defects go,
and only raise prices slightly, just under 10%.

Every other small business is in the same boat. For my 2 cents, I think
we're looking at serious inflation after the fall elections. Ag products
just seem to be getting hit first. (been to the grocery lately?)

Karl

I would try the honest, up front way first. Tell people that
fuel, fertilizer, packaging... prices are up and you need to
charge more, you wish you didn't need too, but you would
like to stay in business.

Offer a bit better price on "culls" and let people know that
they are imperfect apples, but perfectly edible. They just
aren't pretty.

See how it goes...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
I'm curious, how do you think a small business should do it?

Preferably, the honest way. As a consumer, I run when I get that "greasy
feeling" about the place that I am doing business. Hidden charges are a great
way to give your customers that "greasy feeling".

This economy is hard on everyone. I an quickly figuring out how to lower my
standard of living, and that will create a domino effect that will just make
things harder on others who depend on my business. Like me, they will just have
to figure ways to get along with less.

Just today, I noticed that the resturant increased the price of a soft drink
to $2.29. The domino effect will be that next week I will order water with my
meal. The domino effect of that might be that the resturant will compensate by
increasing the price of their meals, which might mean that we will stop going
out to eat on Fridays, which might mean that the waitress will not be able to
make her house payment, which might mean...

It is a terrible cycle. The business that survives will be the business that
figures out how to keep its customers happy, loyal, and coming back no matter
what else happens.

Every other small business is in the same boat. For my 2 cents, I think we're
looking at serious inflation after the fall elections. Ag products just seem
to be getting hit first. (been to the grocery lately?)

Where have you beeen? The "serious inflation" has been here for months,
perhaps years. The government has managed to delay the news by "cooking" the
numbers to make the CPI appear lower than it really is. Folks are just now
starting to figure out that they have been had.

Vaughn

In article , says...


I'm curious, how do you think a small business should do it?

I am impressed that you consider Fastenal and Honda "small businesses"


My costs are up SHARPLY. I feel if I just raise prices 25% my customers
will bolt. I'm thinking of ways to disguise part of the increase and not
chase everybody away. In my case, I used to give oversize packaging; buy a
10# peck, you get 12# of apples. I also used to be very fussy on grading out
ANY defect.

My plan, at this point, is to reduce the package size, let minor defects go,
and only raise prices slightly, just under 10%.

As many others pointed out, there is no easy way. To my knowledge never has
been.

For my part, I am prepared to accept an up-front "I have to raise prices 'cos
my costs have gone up" statement more easily than a weasly way to hide the
price increase.

One should also perhaps spare the thought for those who *cannot* pass their
increasing costs to their clients, but that is another matter.

In article ,
says...


On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:35:44 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

I came across two interesting situations recently and I wonder how common
they are in general:

1) After walking into my local Fastenal and completing a small purchase I
noticed that the total was in excess of what I would expect the sum of the
components plus taxes to be. A close inspection of the bill showed that I
had been charged additional 15% for "shipping and handling".

About six weeks ago I made a similar in store purchase and was charged
a shipping and handling fee. I ask the counter girl why and she
apologized and refunded the charge.

You might want to go back to the store and speak to the manager and
perhaps you will have better luck getting a refund.

Worth a try if the cost of going back does not exceed the amount in
dispute. Maybe even if it does!


They are the only game in town for some of the stuff I need. Trying to find a
manager in their shop is like looking for a camel in the eye of the needle (or
some such biblical simile). Just brainless bimbos...

I am exploring a possiblity that I could turn this to my advantage but I do not
feel an adversarial relationship at this stage would necessarily be profitable.

However, the first impulse is to shake someone warmly by their throat.

crquack

Richard J Kinch wrote:

Any repair and service biz is a classic case of "information asymmetry",
with regards to tricks played against the consumer. They experts at
practicing the scam, you're just an occasional amateur stumbling into
their expertise.

Mac sells a tool to remove intake studs on a saturn so you can pull the studs out of the
aluminum head, then slip in a new intake gasket and put the studs back in while charging
flat rate for a job that the mechanic was supposed to leave the studs in place and remove
the intake the hard way.

The aluminum head wasn't designed around screwing studs in and out.

I'm sure there are many horror stories, I just know about that one.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
while charging flat rate for a job...


The flat rate book is a scam in itself. First, it gives the garage and the
mechanic incentive to "half ass" a job. If they can get a car out of the shop
in half of the allotted time, they might make twice as much money.

Second, the book is rigged (or can be easily used) to screw the customer. For
example, changing a water pump while changing a timing belt adds perhaps 20
minutes of labor, but they will charge you full "flat rate" for each job as if
they had done each job from scratch.

Vaughn

"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

Second, the book is rigged (or can be easily used) to screw the customer. For
example, changing a water pump while changing a timing belt adds perhaps 20
minutes of labor, but they will charge you full "flat rate" for each job as if
they had done each job from scratch.


Oh that is a nasty example. I'd rather hire a good mechanic and pay time and materials.
Unfortunately, to keep money in the budget for metalworking stuff, I gotta fix it myself.

The last car I purchased, I bought the factory service manual set for it.

The next car I buy, slightly used since I drive a lot, will come with factory manuals or
I'm not buying it.

Fixed price quotes are expensive as far as I am concerned. No matter what the trade, deal
with honest people and share the risks inherent with them.

Wes