Depending on which report you believe there may be between 70 and 150 banks
on the verge of failure. With the FDIC being underfunded will depositors be
left
pennyless should a rapid succession of failures occur depleating the FDIC
fund ?
Of course not, congress will provide the cash to the FDIC and send the bill
to the
taxpayer as usuall.

"The deposit insurance fund is as real as the social security trust fund,"
Ely said, noting that only a "small fraction" of the $53 billion is actually
available and "any losses beyond that will be assessed on the banks."

The reserve, as of March 31, was valued at $52.843 billion, or 1.19 percent
of the total insured deposits of $4.431 trillion.

http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.a...um=2062_3100_2

Best Regards
Tom.

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:11:58 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:
snip
Of course not, congress will provide the cash to the FDIC and send the bill
to the
taxpayer as usuall.
snip
=========
Indeed. I am sure that no one will lose a single cent.

The problem is that when they get their money will it be worth
anything? Weimar Germany paid off the internal imperial war debt
after WW1 to the last marK, and no German lost a single pfenig.
Of course you couldn't buy a short beer with even a million mark
note, but thats another problem.....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:11:58 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:
snip
Of course not, congress will provide the cash to the FDIC and send the
bill
to the
taxpayer as usuall.
snip
=========
Indeed. I am sure that no one will lose a single cent.

The problem is that when they get their money will it be worth
anything? Weimar Germany paid off the internal imperial war debt
after WW1 to the last marK, and no German lost a single pfenig.
Of course you couldn't buy a short beer with even a million mark
note, but thats another problem.....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.

"azotic" wrote:

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:20:37 -0400, Wes wrote:

"azotic" wrote:

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...
=============
As a preview of things to come click on
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/23/zimbabwe
to see picture of 100 billion $Z note. FWIW -- this *MAY* buy a
single small loaf of bread.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:20:37 -0400, Wes wrote:

"azotic" wrote:

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...
============
You can't make this stuff up!!!!

Schwarzenegger plans to cut state worker pay to cope with late
budget
By Kevin Yamamura -

Last Updated 4:20 pm PDT Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger intends to cut pay for more than
200,000 state workers to save money during the budget standoff,
according to a draft copy of the order obtained by The Bee. Brian
Baer /

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans to sign an executive order next
week that will reduce pay for more than 200,000 state workers to
the federal minimum wage of $6.55 per hour to preserve cash in
the midst of a month-long budget standoff, according to a draft
copy of the order obtained by The Bee.

Administration officials said the governor expects to take the
action Monday.

snip
----------------
For the complete article click on
http://www.sacbee.com/749/story/1104742.html

Who said you couldn't run government like a business!!!

It's a good thing that none of the state employees that are about
to get a wage cut are paying on montages, so this won't affect
the California Real Estate market or foreclosure rates.

Remember that California is unique only in that it is first.....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:20:37 -0400, Wes wrote:

"azotic" wrote:

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw.

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:20:37 -0400, Wes wrote:


"azotic" wrote:


It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...

=============
As a preview of things to come click on
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/23/zimbabwe
to see picture of 100 billion $Z note. FWIW -- this *MAY* buy a
single small loaf of bread.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).


I'd just like to have one of those for fun and games.



--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

F. George McDuffee wrote:

You can't make this stuff up!!!!

Schwarzenegger plans to cut state worker pay to cope with late
budget
By Kevin Yamamura -

Last Updated 4:20 pm PDT Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger intends to cut pay for more than
200,000 state workers to save money during the budget standoff,
according to a draft copy of the order obtained by The Bee. Brian
Baer /

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans to sign an executive order next
week that will reduce pay for more than 200,000 state workers to
the federal minimum wage of $6.55 per hour to preserve cash in
the midst of a month-long budget standoff, according to a draft
copy of the order obtained by The Bee.


Well George,

In 1979 when I was honorably discharged from the USMC, I went to collect my unemployment
benefits that I was entitled to. Since congress was having a ****ing match with either
the President or each house of congress there was no funding to pay me. So for 12 weeks,
every two weeks I had to drive 40 miles to stand in line at the unemployment office to say
I had not found a job and I was looking and drive home empty handed. I'd have been glad
to get minimum wage at the time.

Finally I found a job on Veterans Day of all days. I got my back unemployment but if I
didn't have family to help me out, I would have been screwed. Don't expect me to have
much compassion for workers in government learning how the system works.

Fast forward to 2001, job of 22 years goes bust. I'm at the same damn unemployment office
signing up for benefits but I hear something that brings me joy. The whole operation is
moving to computer where you just call in and report and the lady in front of me will get
a taste of what I is like to loose your job.

The 200,000 in California will get something and eventually get the rest. Sure wish I
could have got the same deal back in 79.

Wes

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?

Wes wrote in
:

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?


Yup!

They also work well with Parachute Cord.


--
I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.

Eregon wrote:

Wes wrote in
:

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?


Yup!

They also work well with Parachute Cord.


What if you only have one chute cord? Do you really need a para? ;-)


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Eregon wrote:

Wes wrote in
:


Gunner wrote:


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?


Yup!

They also work well with Parachute Cord.



What if you only have one chute cord? Do you really need a para? ;-)



Just cut it in half - now you have a para...

--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:40:43 -0400, Wes wrote:

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?


Of course.

Remember that music wire usually kills by decapitation..which when
you are up close and personal, with the subject pulled tight up
against you, even if your knee is in his back..its gonna be really
messy. Now if that wire is wrapped around your hands or fingers..the
wire is going to also cut the **** out of you as well. Even thick
gloves, which reduced dexterity..may not prevent stress fractures of
your fingers. 1/8"-1/4" nylon is bad for this also.

2nd best thing to use is a 36" industrial tie wrap, Loop, flip, pull
hard and forget, and you can carry a half dozen of them inside your
pants belt loop. Also makes very good impromptu handcuffs if you want
a "keeper"

My personal favorite in the bad old days..was a bicycle chain. Didnt
cut..but certainly was tough enough to pull hard, and heavy duty
enough to crush cartlidge and tissue and arteries quickly, worked
great in a "spin and jerk" and was stout enough to be used as a flail
along side the head, and when wrapped around your off arm..made a
pretty decent bit of fending armor and a striking impliment.

Gunner

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:32:56 GMT, Eregon Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote:

Wes wrote in
:

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?


Yup!

They also work well with Parachute Cord.

505 cord was pretty limber and you had to actually loop it around, you
seldom could flip it over..but yeah...worked fair enough

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:56:39
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:32:56 GMT, Eregon Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote:
Wes wrote in
Gunner wrote:
That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...
Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw
Handles for the wire?

Works well for cutting blocks of cheese. My Dad figured that
out, back in the day when we ran a food club out of the garage. He
thought that was pretty slick, and a lot safer and easier than using a
knife.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"Set phasers to deep fat fy, extra crispy, Cajun style."

pyotr filipivich wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:56:39
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:32:56 GMT, Eregon Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote:

Wes wrote in

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...

Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw

Handles for the wire?


Works well for cutting blocks of cheese. My Dad figured that
out, back in the day when we ran a food club out of the garage. He
thought that was pretty slick, and a lot safer and easier than using a
knife.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"Set phasers to deep fat fy, extra crispy, Cajun style."


I'm going back to my bow.

I bought a box of bullets yesterday.

$21 for a box of 30 American Eagle .380


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

cavelamb himself wrote:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:56:39
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:32:56 GMT, Eregon Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote:

Wes wrote in

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...


Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw


Handles for the wire?



Works well for cutting blocks of cheese. My Dad figured that
out, back in the day when we ran a food club out of the garage. He
thought that was pretty slick, and a lot safer and easier than using a
knife.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"Set phasers to deep fat fy, extra crispy, Cajun style."



I'm going back to my bow.

I bought a box of bullets yesterday.

$21 for a box of _50_ American Eagle .380




--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:38:31 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:56:39
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:32:56 GMT, Eregon Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote:

Wes wrote in

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...

Indeed. And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw

Handles for the wire?


Works well for cutting blocks of cheese. My Dad figured that
out, back in the day when we ran a food club out of the garage. He
thought that was pretty slick, and a lot safer and easier than using a
knife.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"Set phasers to deep fat fy, extra crispy, Cajun style."


I'm going back to my bow.

I bought a box of bullets yesterday.

$21 for a box of 30 American Eagle .380


30 rd box????

Ive seen specialty ammo such as Glasers in short packs..but never seen
a 30 pack before

Gunner

azotic wrote:
Depending on which report you believe

Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his
head out when you're coming home his face might burn up.

- Jack -

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:41:57 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

pyotr filipivich wrote:
I'm going back to my bow.

I bought a box of bullets yesterday.

$21 for a box of 30 American Eagle .380


30 rd box????

Ive seen specialty ammo such as Glasers in short packs..but never seen
a 30 pack before


Hey Gunner,

Have you seen/heard anything about the copper bullet/lead
ban law in CA yet?

Must have been a slow news day in our local paper yesterday.
They ran an article very similar if not the same as this:

"Becky Davis, vice president of a Goleta ammunition
manufacturer, believes a ban on lead ammunition that takes
effect today in much of the state will have one very
noticeable impact on California sportsmen: They will bag
more deer.

"My suspicion is that they'll have a higher take rate this
year," said Davis, whose Custom Cartridge firm is one of
eight manufacturers to produce ammunition certified by state
regulators as lead-free.

The reason, she said, is that a copper bullet fired from a
good-quality cartridge "gives you a very high-quality,
humane kill."

The ban on lead ammunition applies to areas of the state
within the condor range, generally from the coast to the
eastern Sierra and from Stanislaus County on the north to
Los Angeles County on the south. It was signed into law last
fall by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, capping a years-long
campaign by conservationists to better protect the
California condor..." See:

http://www.venturacountystar.com/new...rs/?printer=1/


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Jul 25, 1:56*am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:32:56 GMT, Eregon Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote:
Wes wrote in
:

Gunner wrote:

That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of
music wire on hand...

Indeed. *And some extra broom handles and a hacksaw

Handles for the wire?

Yup!

They also work well with Parachute Cord.

505 cord was pretty limber and you had to actually loop it around, you
seldom could flip it over..but yeah...worked fair enough- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:20:37 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth:

"azotic" wrote:

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...

Hmm, custom neckties for those of our leaders who are disloyal to us,
their constituents and/or customers? That or a firing squad sounds
like a morale-boosting plan, Wes!

--
Imagination is more important than knowledge...
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

Hmm, custom neckties for those of our leaders who are disloyal to us,
their constituents and/or customers? That or a firing squad sounds
like a morale-boosting plan, Wes!

Try reading H. Beam Piper's story "Lone Star Planet" (originally titled "A
Planet For Texans").

He had a good idea... GRIN


--
I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:43:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:20:37 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth:

"azotic" wrote:

It would also be a wonderfull way for the government to magicaly disapear
trillions of dollars on deposit in accounts and CD's containing over 100K
while telling those depositors how lucky they are to be covered by FDIC.

Best Regards
Tom.


That is the reason for retaining your firearms and having a roll of music wire on hand...

Hmm, custom neckties for those of our leaders who are disloyal to us,
their constituents and/or customers? That or a firing squad sounds
like a morale-boosting plan, Wes!


For those leaders ...a barbed wire necktie may be fitting..after all
it was favored by those other totalitarians ..sans 1934-45

Gunner

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:25:40 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:41:57 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

pyotr filipivich wrote:
I'm going back to my bow.

I bought a box of bullets yesterday.

$21 for a box of 30 American Eagle .380


30 rd box????

Ive seen specialty ammo such as Glasers in short packs..but never seen
a 30 pack before


Hey Gunner,

Have you seen/heard anything about the copper bullet/lead
ban law in CA yet?

Must have been a slow news day in our local paper yesterday.
They ran an article very similar if not the same as this:

"Becky Davis, vice president of a Goleta ammunition
manufacturer, believes a ban on lead ammunition that takes
effect today in much of the state will have one very
noticeable impact on California sportsmen: They will bag
more deer.

"My suspicion is that they'll have a higher take rate this
year," said Davis, whose Custom Cartridge firm is one of
eight manufacturers to produce ammunition certified by state
regulators as lead-free.

The reason, she said, is that a copper bullet fired from a
good-quality cartridge "gives you a very high-quality,
humane kill."

The ban on lead ammunition applies to areas of the state
within the condor range, generally from the coast to the
eastern Sierra and from Stanislaus County on the north to
Los Angeles County on the south. It was signed into law last
fall by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, capping a years-long
campaign by conservationists to better protect the
California condor..." See:

http://www.venturacountystar.com/new...rs/?printer=1/


Hummm...no..I was not aware of it at all. Since Im inside the
range...Ill have to check into it.

Im a bit confused though..there are a couple dozen condors in the
wild..and mostly in a very small range. A postage stamp would fit on
the map covering their range....
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunti...rvationAct.pdf
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunti...nformation.pdf

It now bans just about any kind of lead bullet, including rimfires,
for hunting.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/
After nearly a full year of public testimony, discussion, and
environmental analyses, the
Fish and Game Commission in December 2007 adopted regulations (Section
353, Title
14, CCR) that will prohibit the use of projectiles (bullets)
containing lead for hunting deer,
bear, wild pig, elk, and pronghorn antelope in areas designated as
California condor
range. Additionally, the regulations (Section 475, Title 14, CCR) will
also prohibit use of
lead in the same areas when hunting coyote, ground squirrels, and
other nongame
wildlife.
When:
The effective date for the new regulations will be July 1, 2008. It
will be illegal to hunt
the above species with lead projectiles beginning July 1.

What are the lead projectiles that are prohibited?
The Commission has defined projectiles so that the prohibited bullets
and other
projectiles can be understood. A “projectile” is defined as any
bullet, ball, sabot, slug,
buckshot or other device which is expelled from a firearm through a
barrel by force.
Additionally, for hunting nongame, projectiles include “shot” and
“pellets”; lead in
these projectiles is prohibited as well.
It will be illegal to use any projectile that contains more than 1
percent lead for hunting
big game or nongame within the affected area. This includes centerfire
as well as black-
powder/muzzle-loader, and rimfire projectiles.


That finished off any hunting with blackpowder arms, .22s etc etc.

Since I wasnt made aware of this..I rather suspect there is going to
be several million hunters and shooters that are going to wake up come
hunting season and be really really ****ed...

From a varminters blog.....

"There's another rimfire issue, and this one gives me cold sweats at
night. With all the attention being given to getting the lead out of
projectiles (the state of California may even ban leaded bullets),
what happens to the hapless .22 rimfire and the millions upon millions
of rimfire firearms and shooters if such a ban were imposed?

Given the soft steel used in rimfire barrels, coming up with an
alternative to soft lead at a reasonable cost will be a quite a
challenge. Yet, in my youth, I hunted squirrels with a lead-free
rimfire cartridge.

Back in the 1950s and early 1960s, there was a frangible .22 Short
cartridge featuring a 15-grain bullet at 1,710 fps. It was marketed as
the Remington Rocket and the Peters Thunderbolt, and they were sold in
a flat, Chicklet gum-type box holding 28 cartridges. The frangible
bullet was made from powdered iron and wax and was stamped out using
commercial pill making equipment. Today, we would probably use tin or
copper, rather than iron, because I understand the Rocket and
Thunderbolt did accelerate barrel wear."

On a side note..I wonder if they realize that most bullet proof vests
are largely transparent to solid copper bullets?

And that a frangible bullet wound is not something you are going to
come back from?

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:55:47 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

big snip
The ban on lead ammunition applies to areas of the state
within the condor range...

Hummm...no..I was not aware of it at all. Since Im inside the
range...Ill have to check into it.

Sorry to be the one telling you about this. I now suspect
this snuck through the legislature without much publicity.

snip
From a varminters blog.....

"There's another rimfire issue, and this one gives me cold sweats at
night. With all the attention being given to getting the lead out of
projectiles (the state of California may even ban leaded bullets),
what happens to the hapless .22 rimfire and the millions upon millions
of rimfire firearms and shooters if such a ban were imposed?...

I happened to come across that particular blog entry too.
Interesting reading and some good points were brought up.

snip
On a side note..I wonder if they realize that most bullet proof vests
are largely transparent to solid copper bullets?

And that a frangible bullet wound is not something you are going to
come back from?

I'm sure this aspect of the whole ban was given no thought
what-so-ever.

I can appreciate looking out for/protecting the Condors, but
I don't think this law will work out so well. Ready to move
back to Michigan yet? Not like we don't have our own
problems, but we can still shoot lead bullets (knock on
wood).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:56:34 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:55:47 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

big snip
The ban on lead ammunition applies to areas of the state
within the condor range...

Hummm...no..I was not aware of it at all. Since Im inside the
range...Ill have to check into it.

Sorry to be the one telling you about this. I now suspect
this snuck through the legislature without much publicity.

snip
From a varminters blog.....

"There's another rimfire issue, and this one gives me cold sweats at
night. With all the attention being given to getting the lead out of
projectiles (the state of California may even ban leaded bullets),
what happens to the hapless .22 rimfire and the millions upon millions
of rimfire firearms and shooters if such a ban were imposed?...

I happened to come across that particular blog entry too.
Interesting reading and some good points were brought up.

snip
On a side note..I wonder if they realize that most bullet proof vests
are largely transparent to solid copper bullets?

And that a frangible bullet wound is not something you are going to
come back from?

I'm sure this aspect of the whole ban was given no thought
what-so-ever.

I can appreciate looking out for/protecting the Condors, but
I don't think this law will work out so well. Ready to move
back to Michigan yet? Not like we don't have our own
problems, but we can still shoot lead bullets (knock on
wood).


Ive considered it..but when I hear Michigan ads on the local LA radio
stations begging California businesses to move to Michigan...I wonder
just how I could make a living. Not that Id mind relearning how to
ski.....

Gunner

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:38:28 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

Ready to move
back to Michigan yet? Not like we don't have our own
problems, but we can still shoot lead bullets (knock on
wood).


Ive considered it..but when I hear Michigan ads on the local LA radio
stations begging California businesses to move to Michigan...I wonder
just how I could make a living. Not that Id mind relearning how to
ski.....

Work? Making a living? Now you have to go and complicate
things

There are jobs around if people really want to show up on
time, do some real work and figure out their own health care
plan.

Tom Gardner's standing offer would be really hard to beat
though...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:38:28
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

I'm sure this aspect of the whole ban was given no thought
what-so-ever.

I can appreciate looking out for/protecting the Condors, but
I don't think this law will work out so well. Ready to move
back to Michigan yet? Not like we don't have our own
problems, but we can still shoot lead bullets (knock on
wood).


Ive considered it..but when I hear Michigan ads on the local LA radio
stations begging California businesses to move to Michigan...I wonder
just how I could make a living. Not that Id mind relearning how to
ski.....

Considering becoming a ski instructor? Helping those cute snow
bunnies learn to snow plow?

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:09:03 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:38:28
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

I'm sure this aspect of the whole ban was given no thought
what-so-ever.

I can appreciate looking out for/protecting the Condors, but
I don't think this law will work out so well. Ready to move
back to Michigan yet? Not like we don't have our own
problems, but we can still shoot lead bullets (knock on
wood).


Ive considered it..but when I hear Michigan ads on the local LA radio
stations begging California businesses to move to Michigan...I wonder
just how I could make a living. Not that Id mind relearning how to
ski.....

Considering becoming a ski instructor? Helping those cute snow
bunnies learn to snow plow?

tschus
pyotr


I was a ski instructor. Also on the National Ski Patrol. Got my
"letter" in highschool in skiing. I was one of the forerunners of
freestyle skiing..albit very primative compared to todays freestyle,
and a recognized ski hardware tester for several manufactures.

Then the real world got in the way,....and I wound up in the desert, 5
hours from the nearest ski area. Well..every couple years it snows
enough up on the Grapevine for X-country skiing..so I do have a couple
or 5 pairs of x-country skis and shoes.....shrug

Ive not run a mogol field since 1973...damnit


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group, they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core, and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:09:03 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Considering becoming a ski instructor? Helping those cute snow
bunnies learn to snow plow?

I wouldn't recommend that in this state right now. The whole
snow/ski industry has been barely scraping by for the past
several years. Last winter was one of the better ones, but
with the economy in the crapper people are sticking close to
home and not opening their wallets very far...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Sat, 02 Aug 2008 05:25:42 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:09:03 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:38:28
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

I'm sure this aspect of the whole ban was given no thought
what-so-ever.

I can appreciate looking out for/protecting the Condors, but
I don't think this law will work out so well. Ready to move
back to Michigan yet? Not like we don't have our own
problems, but we can still shoot lead bullets (knock on
wood).


Ive considered it..but when I hear Michigan ads on the local LA radio
stations begging California businesses to move to Michigan...I wonder
just how I could make a living. Not that Id mind relearning how to
ski.....

Considering becoming a ski instructor? Helping those cute snow
bunnies learn to snow plow?

tschus
pyotr


I was a ski instructor. Also on the National Ski Patrol. Got my
"letter" in highschool in skiing. I was one of the forerunners of
freestyle skiing..albit very primative compared to todays freestyle,
and a recognized ski hardware tester for several manufactures.

Ah, so you do know about those special training sessions... Well,
you're a better man than I am, Gridley. I never really learned
downhill skiing, but did a bit of cross country. Till my regular
partner up and moved to Guatemala.

Then the real world got in the way,....and I wound up in the desert, 5
hours from the nearest ski area. Well..every couple years it snows
enough up on the Grapevine for X-country skiing..so I do have a couple
or 5 pairs of x-country skis and shoes.....shrug

Ive not run a mogol field since 1973...damnit

I fell down at Garmisch in 1976. That was so much unfun, I didn't
see any reason to do it again. I didn't get hurt, I just got
separated from the rest, who knew how to ski. They had fun, I didn't
and since then ... c'est l'vie.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries