You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside. I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!

--
Ray

Your joke is well taken however, FYI, a brass monkey was a device used by
the British to keep cannon balls stacked in a pyramid. When the weather got
cold enough, and the brass contracted, the cannon balls wouldn't stay
put..... hence the phrase "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"........... I
think that's right.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Ray wrote:

You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for
hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.
I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!



Maybe they dip brass monkeys in liquid nitrogen?

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

Ray wrote:

You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside. I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!



Maybe they dip brass monkeys in liquid nitrogen?

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

larsen-tools wrote:
Your joke is well taken however, FYI, a brass monkey was a device used by
the British to keep cannon balls stacked in a pyramid. When the weather got
cold enough, and the brass contracted, the cannon balls wouldn't stay
put..... hence the phrase "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"........... I
think that's right.

I just can't let you go on believing that one ....Think about the
coefficients of expansion, too small a change to make much of a
difference in any depressions made deep enough to keep the balls from
rolling off as the ship rocked.

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm

BTW, I've got a pair of those Chinese Balls in a nice little brocade
cloth covered "jewelry box", but frankly they've never done much for me.

I suspect that they were originally two hollow hemispherical castings
brazed together, but nowadays they probably use stampings.

Seems like electron beam welding works too:

http://www.ebindustries.com/hollowballs.htm

There's just no end of uses for such things....

http://www.adulttoysngifts.com/detai...?num=DOCJ-0642

Or watch Bogie in a rerun of "The Caine Mutiny".

Jeff (Ducking...)


--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Strive to be first....Second place is just the first loser..."


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

Ray wrote:


You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for

hundreds

of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.

I'd

hate to have to cut one open to find out!



Maybe they dip brass monkeys in liquid nitrogen?

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."






--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

They are called Ben Wahs and they are for exercising something you ain't
got. :-)

Ray wrote:
You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside. I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

In article t_gJc.3215$FZ.1626@lakeread06,
Glenn Ashmore wrote:

They are called Ben Wahs and they are for exercising something you ain't
got. :-)

Idunno... I understand there are those of the male persuasion who find
an alternate "something" to exercise with them...

True tale: The other night, a license plate in one of those "witty"
holders, mounted under a "gay rainbow" design on a car driven by a
rather fey looking gentleman caught my eye. It read:

NICE SHOES!
URHOT --- vanity-plate
WANNA ****?

Had me chuckling for half an hour

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

(clip) Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

Q: Who thought up the expression, "It's cold enough to freeze the balls off
a pawnshop?"

A. I did.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
(clip) Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

So...why can you pick up only one of them, shake it and hear metallic
chiming sounds?

Q: Who thought up the expression, "It's cold enough to freeze the balls off
a pawnshop?"

A. I did.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:42:59 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote:

I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

So...why can you pick up only one of them, shake it and hear metallic
chiming sounds?

Gee, a naive machinist! Who'd a thought!

http://www.the-clitoris.com/f_html/qa_5/qa5_4.htm

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:26:56 -0700, John Ings
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:42:59 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote:

I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

So...why can you pick up only one of them, shake it and hear metallic
chiming sounds?

Gee, a naive machinist! Who'd a thought!

http://www.the-clitoris.com/f_html/qa_5/qa5_4.htm

Im reminded of one of the first times I had to testify in court as a
cop..and the female lawyer of the defendant stood up as the judge
entered the court..and there was a TICK and a shiney gold ball bearing
rolled out in the middle of the court....

Red faces all around G

Gunner

"The entire population of Great Britain has been declared insane by
their government. It is believed that should any one of them come in
possession of a firearm, he will immediately start to foam at the
mouth and begin kiling children at the nearest school. The proof of
their insanity is that they actually believe this."
-- someone in misc.survivalism

Don Bruder wrote in
:

In article t_gJc.3215$FZ.1626@lakeread06,
Glenn Ashmore wrote:

They are called Ben Wahs and they are for exercising something you
ain't got. :-)

Idunno... I understand there are those of the male persuasion who find
an alternate "something" to exercise with them...

True tale: The other night, a license plate in one of those "witty"
holders, mounted under a "gay rainbow" design on a car driven by a
rather fey looking gentleman caught my eye. It read:

NICE SHOES!
URHOT --- vanity-plate
WANNA ****?

Had me chuckling for half an hour


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhh I can't stand the misinformation. Ben wah's or Bo
ding's as they are sometimes called are made for hand excersises. They were
used by monk's fpr meditation a long time ago, and emperors' and high court
eople used them for entertainment, "not Sexual". Now as to how they were
made pieces of metal were rolled between two hot plates of steel amd the
first ones did not have matal chimes in them. Much later people figured out
how too make hollow ones with small plates that chimed and were still able
to roll them to heat the weld together and making it smooth. The process
haas tso pieces with a wierd lip the chimes are put in and they are heated
unitl red, then rolled bewtween two hot plates to smooth, round off and
seal. By the way I found this by GOOGLing and I own like five sets that
come with little booklets that have info.

"Ray" wrote in message
...
You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.
I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!

--
Ray

From Google:

Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for protection.
Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The Ship's Master
usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they could be of instant
use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack
them up in a square-based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the
stack had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the
next had sixteen, and so on. Four levels would provide a stack of 30
cannonballs. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level from
sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they
devised a small brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was used
because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but would rust to
an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in size faster than
iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the indentations in the brass monkey
would get smaller than the iron cannonballs they were holding. If the
temperature got cold enough, the bottom layer would pop out of the
indentations spilling the entire pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls Off a
Brass Monkey!"

Steve wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.
I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!

--
Ray

From Google:

Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for protection.

Somebody already posted here in this thread, but since you appearently
didn't read it, here it is again:
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm

And for those that don't bother to follow links. It is FALSE!!!

On 14 Jul 2004 05:50:25 -0700, Ray wrote:

,;You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
,;http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
,;Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
,;of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside. I'd
,;hate to have to cut one open to find out!

Most of the ones I have look like they were created by placing a
design using copper wire on a hollow ball and filling the areas with
plastic. At that point some surface grinding would be necessary.

I have several pair of these retrieved from Hong kong. They do have
chimes inside. (They make noise when you shake one.)

They also are good for exercising the fingers. It is best to start
with the smaller size and work up to something more substantial. One
should be able to rotate the two balls in either direction (smoothly)
in one hand without banging the balls together.

On my last trip I bought two solid marble balls in Melbourne that are
about three inches in diameter. Anyone who thinks you don't exercise
the fingers should try these. I use them every day and after about
five minutes the muscles in the forearm will let you know that they
are getting exercised. It took a while to be able to handle this
larger size. They also had solid steel balls about the same size. I
passed on those and now regret that decision.

I don't believe anyone would use these where the sun don't shine.

|| From Google:
||
|| Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for protection.
||
||Somebody already posted here in this thread, but since you appearently
||didn't read it, here it is again:
||http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm
||
||And for those that don't bother to follow links. It is FALSE!!!

If it's on the internet, how can it be false??? G

"It's true, I read it on the internet last night"
Texas Parts Guy

Steve wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.
I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!

--
Ray

From Google:

Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for protection.
Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The Ship's Master
usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they could be of instant
use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack
them up in a square-based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the
stack had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the
next had sixteen, and so on. Four levels would provide a stack of 30
cannonballs. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level from
sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they
devised a small brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was used
because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but would rust to
an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in size faster than
iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the indentations in the brass monkey
would get smaller than the iron cannonballs they were holding. If the
temperature got cold enough, the bottom layer would pop out of the
indentations spilling the entire pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls Off a
Brass Monkey!"

Now use Google to find the coeficient of expansion for brass and work
out just how much change in size there will be on that brass plate there
will be when going from plus 100 deg F to minus 35 deg F. Do same calcs
for iron (the cannonballs), as they will be subject to the same temp. as
the "monkey", contrary to the claim above.

Have fun....


Cheers
Trevor Jones

Gunner wrote:

Im reminded of one of the first times I had to testify in court as a
cop..and the female lawyer of the defendant stood up as the judge
entered the court..and there was a TICK and a shiney gold ball bearing
rolled out in the middle of the court....

Red faces all around G


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...m/odd_judge_dc

OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - An Oklahoma state judge frequently
masturbated and used a device for enhancing erections while his court
was in session, charges a petition by the state's attorney general
seeking his removal.



Oklahoma Attorney General Drew Edmondson filed the petition on Wednesday
with state judicial authorities seeking the ouster of Sapulpa District
Judge Donald Thompson, 57, for "conduct constituting an offense
involving moral turpitude in violation of the Oklahoma Constitution,"
Edmondson's spokesman said on Thursday.


The judge flatly denies the charges made in the petition, his lawyer,
Clark Brewster, said on Thursday. He said the judge received a penis
pump for his 50th birthday as a gag gift, which became a source of a
running joke in the courthouse.


"The allegations are bizarre and preposterous," Brewster said.
"Recently, some members of local law enforcement that are upset with a
number of his rulings, used this situation to embarrass and attack him."


The judge, who was first elected to the bench more than 20 years ago in
the state's nonpartisan judicial elections, is based about 80 miles
northeast of Oklahoma City.


In the petition, the attorney general charged Thompson used a penis
pump, a device billed as providing sexual pleasure and promising better
erections and larger penis size, during trials and exposed himself to a
court reporter several times while masturbating on the bench.


"On one occasion, Ms. (Lisa) Foster (Thompson's court reporter for 15
years), saw Judge Thompson holding his penis up and shaving underneath
it with a disposable razor while on the bench," the petition reads.


Several witnesses, including jurors in Thompson's court and police
officers called to testify in trials, said in the petition they heard
the "swooshing" sound of a penis pump during trials and saw the judge
slumped in his chair, with his elbows on his knees, working the device.
The witnesses said the pump sounded like a blood pressure cuff being
pumped up.


According to the petition, Thompson admitted he had a penis pump under
the bench during a murder trial but he told investigators it was a gag
gift from a friend.


The petition also charges Thompson with firing his former court reporter
after she cooperated with investigators.


~D

Well, you might not believe it, but they do have chimes inside. It is
little coil spring gong with one end welded to the inside of the ball half.
A steel ball about 3/8" dia, is also put (loose) in before the other ball
half is welded or brazed on. Shaking the ball makes the steel ball strike
the gong, producing a melodious note.

Randy


"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...
(clip) Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

Q: Who thought up the expression, "It's cold enough to freeze the balls
off
a pawnshop?"

A. I did.

Trevor Jones wrote:
Steve wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
.. .

You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.

I'd

hate to have to cut one open to find out!

--
Ray

From Google:

Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for protection.
Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The Ship's Master
usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they could be of instant
use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack
them up in a square-based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the
stack had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the
next had sixteen, and so on. Four levels would provide a stack of 30
cannonballs. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level from
sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they
devised a small brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was used
because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but would rust to
an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in size faster than
iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the indentations in the brass monkey
would get smaller than the iron cannonballs they were holding. If the
temperature got cold enough, the bottom layer would pop out of the
indentations spilling the entire pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls Off a
Brass Monkey!"


Now use Google to find the coeficient of expansion for brass and work
out just how much change in size there will be on that brass plate there
will be when going from plus 100 deg F to minus 35 deg F. Do same calcs
for iron (the cannonballs), as they will be subject to the same temp. as
the "monkey", contrary to the claim above.

Have fun....


Cheers
Trevor Jones


If Steve couldn't realize that intuitively, I don't think that this is
the best newsgroup for him to be reading and posting to just yet.

Maybe we could all chip in and buy him one of these G:

http://www.labsupply.com.hk/Sci-Ed%2...Ring%20Set.htm

Jeff (Ducking...)

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

"Steve" wrote in


Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for
protection. Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The
Ship's Master usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they
could be of instant use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck.
The solution was to stack them up in a square-based pyramid next to
the cannon. The top level of the stack had one ball, the next level
down had four, the next had nine, the next had sixteen, and so on.
Four levels would provide a stack of 30 cannonballs. The only real
problem was how to keep the bottom level from sliding out from under
the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they devised a small
brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was
used because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but
would rust to an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in
size faster than iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the
indentations in the brass monkey would get smaller than the iron
cannonballs they were holding. If the temperature got cold enough, the
bottom layer would pop out of the indentations spilling the entire
pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls
Off a Brass Monkey!"



Don't think so -

Ships master wanted the shot as low in the ship as possible at all times,
not laying around a gundeck - 30 cannonballs would weigh between 180 and
960lbs per gun.... On a ship of the line you'd have about 35-110 tonnes
of weight exactly where you didn't want it, especially when the guns
where run out. A ship of the line usually didn't carry 30 round shot per
gun of the larger calbre, One 32 pounder could penetrate 3' solid oak
after a 1000ft flat tragectory, or 2000ft with a skip off the surface.
After half a dozen bradsides like that usually one or other ship wasn't
there any more, or if it was not many guns where still firing.

Stacking round shot on gun decks would also create the danger of their
breaking free and rolling around loose on deck whenever the ship
encountered rough water, which for the Brits was often. It's a lot more
likely these things would roll off through motion than any supposed
different in thermal expansion.

Cast Iron doen't rust that much, and if the idea of brass was to stop the
shot rusting to an iron plate then why wouldn't the shot in the tiers
above rust to each other?

The ships 'cleared decks' when gunnery took place, which meant knocking
out partitions, dropping hammocks or what ever it took to give enough
space for the six men in the gun crew to move around it and for the guns
aiming and recoil. No room what so ever for neat piles of cannonshot and
a cannon and crew. The other reason for clearing the decks was to reduce
the materials that an inbound shot might hit and splinter around the
inside of a gundeck. For this reason powder was only bought up when
needed.

'Immediate use' is a bit off too, since even the best Brit crews fired
once every 90 seconds or so. The French and Spanish every 2-2 1/2
minuites. Shot and powder where bought up from the locker's and a few
(usually half a dozen) ready-use shot of a variety of types where stored
on the gundecks in wooden racks. Heavier shot where carried up in
bowsers. No monkeys here, other than the kids doing the carrying. A gun
crew would change shot type several times in an exchange of fire so 30
round shot where not needed.

HMS Victory and Greenwich used to have an educational piece as part of
the tour, according to them a 'Brass Monkey' was a small brass cannon
from the time of transition from bronze to iron, usually swivel mounted
that used stone ball or cylinder shot, both of inconsistent size and
shape. 'Freezing a brass monkey' either refered to the cannon shrinking
enough that *some* shot wouldn't fit so slowing the reload, or 'Freezing
the tail off a brass monkey' was the tail being the handle at the end of
the gun used for aiming which reportedly broke when levering a piece
around on the pivot.

Another story is apparently pawn brokers where originally known as brass
monkeys and the three brass balls hung outside the shop has something to
do with the idea, \\

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
..
If Steve couldn't realize that intuitively, I don't think that this is
the best newsgroup for him to be reading and posting to just yet.

Maybe we could all chip in and buy him one of these G:

http://www.labsupply.com.hk/Sci-Ed%2...Ring%20Set.htm

Jeff (Ducking...)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...m/odd_judge_dc

OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - An Oklahoma state judge frequently
masturbated and used a device for enhancing erections while his court
was in session, charges a petition by the state's attorney general
seeking his removal.

Is this the derivation of the affectionate term "Yank"

- you started it!

;-)

Steve

Jeff wrote:
"Steve" wrote in


Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for
protection. Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The
Ship's Master usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they
could be of instant use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck.
The solution was to stack them up in a square-based pyramid next to
the cannon. The top level of the stack had one ball, the next level
down had four, the next had nine, the next had sixteen, and so on.
Four levels would provide a stack of 30 cannonballs. The only real
problem was how to keep the bottom level from sliding out from under
the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they devised a small
brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was
used because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but
would rust to an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in
size faster than iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the
indentations in the brass monkey would get smaller than the iron
cannonballs they were holding. If the temperature got cold enough, the
bottom layer would pop out of the indentations spilling the entire
pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls
Off a Brass Monkey!"




Don't think so -

Ships master wanted the shot as low in the ship as possible at all times,
not laying around a gundeck - 30 cannonballs would weigh between 180 and
960lbs per gun.... On a ship of the line you'd have about 35-110 tonnes
of weight exactly where you didn't want it, especially when the guns
where run out. A ship of the line usually didn't carry 30 round shot per
gun of the larger calbre, One 32 pounder could penetrate 3' solid oak
after a 1000ft flat tragectory, or 2000ft with a skip off the surface.
After half a dozen bradsides like that usually one or other ship wasn't
there any more, or if it was not many guns where still firing.

Stacking round shot on gun decks would also create the danger of their
breaking free and rolling around loose on deck whenever the ship
encountered rough water, which for the Brits was often. It's a lot more
likely these things would roll off through motion than any supposed
different in thermal expansion.

Cast Iron doen't rust that much, and if the idea of brass was to stop the
shot rusting to an iron plate then why wouldn't the shot in the tiers
above rust to each other?

The ships 'cleared decks' when gunnery took place, which meant knocking
out partitions, dropping hammocks or what ever it took to give enough
space for the six men in the gun crew to move around it and for the guns
aiming and recoil. No room what so ever for neat piles of cannonshot and
a cannon and crew. The other reason for clearing the decks was to reduce
the materials that an inbound shot might hit and splinter around the
inside of a gundeck. For this reason powder was only bought up when
needed.

'Immediate use' is a bit off too, since even the best Brit crews fired
once every 90 seconds or so. The French and Spanish every 2-2 1/2
minuites. Shot and powder where bought up from the locker's and a few
(usually half a dozen) ready-use shot of a variety of types where stored
on the gundecks in wooden racks. Heavier shot where carried up in
bowsers. No monkeys here, other than the kids doing the carrying.

Were they referred to as "powder monkeys" on ships?

The American Heritage Dictionary says:

powder monkey

NOUN: Slang One who carries or sets explosives.

A gun
crew would change shot type several times in an exchange of fire so 30
round shot where not needed.

HMS Victory and Greenwich used to have an educational piece as part of
the tour, according to them a 'Brass Monkey' was a small brass cannon
from the time of transition from bronze to iron, usually swivel mounted
that used stone ball or cylinder shot, both of inconsistent size and
shape. 'Freezing a brass monkey' either refered to the cannon shrinking
enough that *some* shot wouldn't fit so slowing the reload, or 'Freezing
the tail off a brass monkey' was the tail being the handle at the end of
the gun used for aiming which reportedly broke when levering a piece
around on the pivot.

Another story is apparently pawn brokers where originally known as brass
monkeys and the three brass balls hung outside the shop has something to
do with the idea, \\


A line remembered from my high school days...."Meet me in front of the
pawnshop Honey, and you can kiss me under the balls".

On a soberer note, The Medici families in Italy were moneylenders in
Europe. Lengend has it that one of the Medicis in the employ of Emperor
Charles the Great fought a giant and slew him with three sacks of rocks.
The three balls or globes later became part of their family crest, and
ultimately, the sign of pawnbroking.

Jeff


--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:14:54 -0600, Trevor Jones
wrote:

Steve wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
You know, the Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside like
http://www.uran.net/zlb/cloisonneexerciseballs.htm ?
Some are chrome plated and quite smooth. They've been around for hundreds
of years, though I don't know if they originally had the chimes inside.
I'd
hate to have to cut one open to find out!

--
Ray

From Google:

Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for protection.
Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The Ship's Master
usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they could be of instant
use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack
them up in a square-based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the
stack had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the
next had sixteen, and so on. Four levels would provide a stack of 30
cannonballs. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level from
sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they
devised a small brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was used
because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but would rust to
an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in size faster than
iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the indentations in the brass monkey
would get smaller than the iron cannonballs they were holding. If the
temperature got cold enough, the bottom layer would pop out of the
indentations spilling the entire pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls Off a
Brass Monkey!"

Now use Google to find the coeficient of expansion for brass and work
out just how much change in size there will be on that brass plate there
will be when going from plus 100 deg F to minus 35 deg F. Do same calcs
for iron (the cannonballs), as they will be subject to the same temp. as
the "monkey", contrary to the claim above.

Have fun....


Cheers
Trevor Jones
Even if the brass did shrink so much the balls were not even close to
the same size. I suppose, if ball bearings were used some shrinkage
might dislodge them. But if the depressions had any kind of a rounded
edge, and you can bet nobody is going to place cannon balls carefully
enough to avoid this, the balls would just ride up onto the rounded
edge. I can imagine some old salt making this up and telling it to
wide eyed boys.
ERS

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:26:56 -0700, John Ings
calmly ranted:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:42:59 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote:

I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

So...why can you pick up only one of them, shake it and hear metallic
chiming sounds?

Gee, a naive machinist! Who'd a thought!

http://www.the-clitoris.com/f_html/qa_5/qa5_4.htm

Hey, Todd! Ya gonna let that 90 lb. (40.9 kg to you Brits)
weakling kick vaginal sand in your face like that?

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:26:56 -0700, John Ings
calmly ranted:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:42:59 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote:

I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

So...why can you pick up only one of them, shake it and hear metallic
chiming sounds?

Gee, a naive machinist! Who'd a thought!

http://www.the-clitoris.com/f_html/qa_5/qa5_4.htm

Hey, Todd! Ya gonna let that 90 lb. (40.9 kg to you Brits)
weakling kick vaginal sand in your face like that?

Hey, I was talking worry balls, not ben-wa balls, so why should I care
about his non-sequiter? I know the worry balls have chimes in them.

-
DANCING: The vertical frustration of a horizontal desire.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full Service Web Programming

Jeff Wisnia wrote in
:


Were they referred to as "powder monkeys" on ships?

The American Heritage Dictionary says:

powder monkey

NOUN: Slang One who carries or sets explosives.


Yup, boys carrying powder where powdermonkeys,

The shot carriers where something else, don't know what. The larger shot
carriers where Bowsers, both the person and the rope sling they carried
the heavier shot (32-64lbs) in. According to one of the naval histories
I've got, a bowser went on to be anything that carried anything heavy, as
opposed to a lighter, a barge that carried the heavy stuff like water,
shot and powder..




A line remembered from my high school days...."Meet me in front of the
pawnshop Honey, and you can kiss me under the balls".

On a soberer note, The Medici families in Italy were moneylenders in
Europe. Lengend has it that one of the Medicis in the employ of
Emperor Charles the Great fought a giant and slew him with three sacks
of rocks. The three balls or globes later became part of their family
crest, and ultimately, the sign of pawnbroking.

Jeff


never knew that one, great thing about news groups

Not all of them have chimes inside. I have a set I bought in Chinatown in
San Francisco that are solid, roughly 1 3/4" in diameter. Came in a silk
covered box. I had to look in a lot of stores to find the solid ones. Most
are chrome plated although many of the hollow ones have cloison (sp)
decorations on the outside. Mine are chrome plated and because they are
solid, much heavier than the hollow ones with chimes. Very relaxing to
exercise the fingers with. A good stress reliever, although sometimes I
feel like Captain Queeg.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Randal O'Brian" wrote in message
...
Well, you might not believe it, but they do have chimes inside. It is
little coil spring gong with one end welded to the inside of the ball
half.
A steel ball about 3/8" dia, is also put (loose) in before the other ball
half is welded or brazed on. Shaking the ball makes the steel ball strike
the gong, producing a melodious note.

Randy


"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...
(clip) Chinese iron balls with the chimes inside (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe the part about the Chinese balls having chimes inside,
either. I think those balls make a nice clinking sound because they are
hard metal.

Q: Who thought up the expression, "It's cold enough to freeze the balls
off
a pawnshop?"

A. I did.

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
Not all of them have chimes inside. I have a set I bought in Chinatown in
San Francisco that are solid, roughly 1 3/4" in diameter. Came in a silk
covered box. I had to look in a lot of stores to find the solid ones. Most
are chrome plated although many of the hollow ones have cloison (sp)
decorations on the outside. Mine are chrome plated and because they are
solid, much heavier than the hollow ones with chimes. Very relaxing to
exercise the fingers with. A good stress reliever, although sometimes I
feel like Captain Queeg.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

Hey, if you want the solid ones, try MSC
http://www.mscdirect.com/PDF.process?pdf=1804&Keyword=Y

Yea..my dad used to do lot of business with bearing suppliers. He'd
come home with large balls for us to play with.

Wait...that didn't sound right and WAS NOT intentional goofing.

I bought a pair in Beijing a while back made from jadeite (cheaper jade
look-alike). I like the feel and weight of stone even if they don't jingle.

Koz

Todd Rich wrote:

Bob Chilcoat wrote:


Not all of them have chimes inside. I have a set I bought in Chinatown in
San Francisco that are solid, roughly 1 3/4" in diameter. Came in a silk
covered box. I had to look in a lot of stores to find the solid ones. Most
are chrome plated although many of the hollow ones have cloison (sp)
decorations on the outside. Mine are chrome plated and because they are
solid, much heavier than the hollow ones with chimes. Very relaxing to
exercise the fingers with. A good stress reliever, although sometimes I
feel like Captain Queeg.





--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)



Hey, if you want the solid ones, try MSC
http://www.mscdirect.com/PDF.process?pdf=1804&Keyword=Y

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:38:56 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email
And also
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexper...s/brassmonkeys
which bears you out.

I would say that the original was indeed ribald, but the second
explanation was thought up to appease (or humour) "polite company"
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm

Hey, Todd! Ya gonna let that 90 lb. (40.9 kg to you Brits)
weakling kick vaginal sand in your face like that?

That would be 6.4 stones to the average Brit, I believe.

Nice post. Two notes though.

How metals behave on land and how they behave at sea are two very very
different things. For wooden boatbuilding Silicon bronze is used. A very
specialised alloy. There are numerous alloys that could be used and that
have been tried. And note that the nails are under coats of very very
expensive paint that make a ferraris paint seem like fingerpaint by
comparison. And if you visit any naval museum or yard or talk to an old
sailor he'll tell you they spent most of their time
stripping off the new rust and putting coat after coat of paint over
warships. Sal****er over time is extremely corrosive stuff. Thus the
extensive use of Brass and brass alloys.

Another thing i 'discovered' from the history channel that a historian on
one of their digs (when they arent "all world war 2 all the time!" channel)
is that the cannon balls were rarely uniform size and tended to have to be
made up for each cannon. So each time a ship of the line hit port they
couldnt just stock up on a few hundred cannon balls.. they had to literally
have them made up for each cannon. Out of all the finds on the dive the
historian seemed most intrigued by this. And you can imagine how accurately
they likely made spheres 3-400 years ago.
Which actually makes your criticism of the story seem even more on target.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in


Virtually every sailing ship in the 1700-1800s had cannons for
protection. Cannons of the times required round iron cannonballs. The
Ship's Master usually wanted to store the cannonballs such that they
could be of instant use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck.
The solution was to stack them up in a square-based pyramid next to
the cannon. The top level of the stack had one ball, the next level
down had four, the next had nine, the next had sixteen, and so on.
Four levels would provide a stack of 30 cannonballs. The only real
problem was how to keep the bottom level from sliding out from under
the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they devised a small
brass plate called, of course a brass monkey, with 16 round
indentations, one for each cannonball, in the bottom layer. Brass was
used because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the brass monkey, but
would rust to an iron one. When temperature falls, brass contracts in
size faster than iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the
indentations in the brass monkey would get smaller than the iron
cannonballs they were holding. If the temperature got cold enough, the
bottom layer would pop out of the indentations spilling the entire
pyramid over the deck.

Thus it was, quite literally, "It Was Cold Enough to Freeze the Balls
Off a Brass Monkey!"



Don't think so -

Ships master wanted the shot as low in the ship as possible at all times,
not laying around a gundeck - 30 cannonballs would weigh between 180 and
960lbs per gun.... On a ship of the line you'd have about 35-110 tonnes
of weight exactly where you didn't want it, especially when the guns
where run out. A ship of the line usually didn't carry 30 round shot per
gun of the larger calbre, One 32 pounder could penetrate 3' solid oak
after a 1000ft flat tragectory, or 2000ft with a skip off the surface.
After half a dozen bradsides like that usually one or other ship wasn't
there any more, or if it was not many guns where still firing.

Stacking round shot on gun decks would also create the danger of their
breaking free and rolling around loose on deck whenever the ship
encountered rough water, which for the Brits was often. It's a lot more
likely these things would roll off through motion than any supposed
different in thermal expansion.

Cast Iron doen't rust that much, and if the idea of brass was to stop the
shot rusting to an iron plate then why wouldn't the shot in the tiers
above rust to each other?

The ships 'cleared decks' when gunnery took place, which meant knocking
out partitions, dropping hammocks or what ever it took to give enough
space for the six men in the gun crew to move around it and for the guns
aiming and recoil. No room what so ever for neat piles of cannonshot and
a cannon and crew. The other reason for clearing the decks was to reduce
the materials that an inbound shot might hit and splinter around the
inside of a gundeck. For this reason powder was only bought up when
needed.

'Immediate use' is a bit off too, since even the best Brit crews fired
once every 90 seconds or so. The French and Spanish every 2-2 1/2
minuites. Shot and powder where bought up from the locker's and a few
(usually half a dozen) ready-use shot of a variety of types where stored
on the gundecks in wooden racks. Heavier shot where carried up in
bowsers. No monkeys here, other than the kids doing the carrying. A gun
crew would change shot type several times in an exchange of fire so 30
round shot where not needed.

HMS Victory and Greenwich used to have an educational piece as part of
the tour, according to them a 'Brass Monkey' was a small brass cannon
from the time of transition from bronze to iron, usually swivel mounted
that used stone ball or cylinder shot, both of inconsistent size and
shape. 'Freezing a brass monkey' either refered to the cannon shrinking
enough that *some* shot wouldn't fit so slowing the reload, or 'Freezing
the tail off a brass monkey' was the tail being the handle at the end of
the gun used for aiming which reportedly broke when levering a piece
around on the pivot.

Another story is apparently pawn brokers where originally known as brass
monkeys and the three brass balls hung outside the shop has something to
do with the idea, \\