Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing by
weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could pull
a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I inverted the
pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I would be happy
if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going through a lot of this
stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill, but
not much.

Ivan Vegvary

I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its collar on a
wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.

I really never felt that I got a "full" fill out of the big tank, but it was
pretty good. Also, putting the small tanks in the freezer for an hour or
more previous is good, too.

I refilled a lot of canisters, and figure I saved a lot of dollars. It DOES
take time and effort, though.
Steve

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:eWZvf.14109$em5.5080@trnddc05...
Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing
by weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could
pull a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I
inverted the pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I
would be happy if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going
through a lot of this stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill,
but not much.

Ivan Vegvary

I would assume once pressures in both cylinders equalized, then no
more flow would be allowed. and your really only getting gas not
liquid.....chill down receiver tank or heat supply tank in a tub of
hot/warm water and see if it increases how much flow you get.. I seem
to recall when I had a brand new 100 gal tank filled the first time it
was necesary to "bleed" out any trapped air etc. Perhaps if you
depress the shraeder valve after transfer slows or stops would allow a
purge or sorts, and decrease in tank pressure and allow for more LP to
flow in. Isn;t liquid what you want in the tank. I donl;t htink a tank
full of just the gaseous portion is going to amoaunt to much of a
supply, so odds are your gonna have to invert the supply tank to get
liquid as they don't have a dip tube in them.

Have fun be safe

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 01:29:46 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:
Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing by
weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could pull
a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I inverted the
pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I would be happy
if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going through a lot of this
stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill, but
not much.

Ivan Vegvary


--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

Big tank upside down, so *liquid* is transferred! It will work with it
right side up, but only if the big tank is warmer than the small one and
will take forever (the propane evaporates in the big tank, passes as gas
to the small, and condenses there).

Even when upside down, the big tank should be warmer than the small one,
so the vapor pressure there is greater and will force the liquid
through. It could drain by gravity, but the openings are so small that
it's impractical.

Note: "big one warmer" can mean heating the big one or cooling the small
one. And keeping it that way.

Getting the small one totally full can be done, but shouldn't. There
should be "head room" in the tank for expansion with temperature rise.
The standard is 20%, IIRC. If you wanted to be fussy, you could fill by
weight, but that would mean some back-and-forth to the scales.


HTH,
Bob

Ivan Vegvary writes:

Advice appreciated.

You misunderstand the process.

You have to vent the receiving tank.

You have to invert the tanks such that liquid is being fed into the
adapter.

You have to waste (by venting) a lot of flammable gas to overcome the
thermodynamic work needed to move the stuff from one place to another.

I used to have a refillable propane bottle that had a vent you opened with
a wrench. Worked great.

You can completely refill disposable bottles if you can get the vent to
work.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
...
You have to waste (by venting) a lot of flammable gas to overcome the
thermodynamic work needed to move the stuff from one place to another.
...

I never do. It's not necessary if the small tank is cooler, as gas
there will condense if the pressure exceeds the vapor pressure for that
temperature.

Bob

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 01:29:46 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing by
weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could pull
a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I inverted the
pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I would be happy
if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going through a lot of this
stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill, but
not much.

Ivan Vegvary

I just use the 4' hose meant to connect the table top barbecue to the
20# tank. I have two of these with the turbo torch on the end - get
some serious heat when I light both of them.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

This will not work with the new OPD valves because they are designed to NOT
release liquid!
To refill a standard lantern/torch size propane tank:
Invert a large tank (40 # or larger with no OPD) on a bench so you are
gravity feeding only liquid propane.
Use a tire valve wrench on a long handle to open the relief valve on the
smaller container. It is a standard Schrader type valve on one side of the
top that extends about 2" down into the tank.
Set the small container vertical and brace in position.
Connect the refilling hose.
Open the valve on the large tank.
Fill until liquid starts coming out the relief valve.
Close the large tank valve then holding the wrench with a gloved hand close
the relief valve
Remove the fill hose.

The small tank will be about 80% full which is the original safe fill level
to allow for thermal expansion.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:eWZvf.14109$em5.5080@trnddc05...
Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing
by weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could
pull a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I
inverted the pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I
would be happy if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going
through a lot of this stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill,
but not much.

Ivan Vegvary

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:

I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its collar on a
wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.

I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:

I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its collar on
a
wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.

I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.


Well, you will notice past tense. It shows how long it has been since I
refilled any of the tanks.

BTW, someone here said if you label the old tanks "FOR CUTTING ONLY" that
you can get them refilled.

Steve

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:01:44 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

This will not work with the new OPD valves because they are designed to NOT
release liquid!
To refill a standard lantern/torch size propane tank:
Invert a large tank (40 # or larger with no OPD) on a bench so you are
gravity feeding only liquid propane.
Use a tire valve wrench on a long handle to open the relief valve on the
smaller container. It is a standard Schrader type valve on one side of the
top that extends about 2" down into the tank.
Set the small container vertical and brace in position.
Connect the refilling hose.
Open the valve on the large tank.
Fill until liquid starts coming out the relief valve.
Close the large tank valve then holding the wrench with a gloved hand close
the relief valve
Remove the fill hose.

The small tank will be about 80% full which is the original safe fill level
to allow for thermal expansion.
Just use a salt/ice bath to cool the little guy, and no venting is
required. If the big guy is in the sun, so much the better.

But remember - it is ILLEGAL to TRANSPORT a refilled cyl not
specifically designated as refillable.

clare, at, snyder.on.ca wrote:

But remember - it is ILLEGAL to TRANSPORT a refilled cyl not
specifically designated as refillable.

I wonder what exactly the people that wrote up that particular law were
thinking. I mean, really, it's not like there's a flag on the cylinder
that pops out to rat out the refilled ones.
And nobody ever lies to an authority figure when asked a question like
"Have these cylinders been refilled?"

Not that I can recall ever being asked.

Yeesh!

Cheers
Trevor Jones

IME the little valve on the small propane tanks is not a normal shrader
valve but a reliefe valve. To open it you have to grab the pin with a
needle nose plier and pull out on it. You can then vent the small tank and
fill it as full as you like. If you get it over full it will vent when it
warms up.
Glenn
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:eWZvf.14109$em5.5080@trnddc05...
Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing
by weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could
pull a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I
inverted the pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I
would be happy if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going
through a lot of this stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill,
but not much.

Ivan Vegvary

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote

..

But remember - it is ILLEGAL to TRANSPORT a refilled cyl not
specifically designated as refillable.

This has been beaten to death. TRANSPORT means for a licensed interstate
carrier to take the refilled goods over a state line for pay. Intrastate is
covered by state DOTs. Private citizens are not hassled because there is
very small danger, and when was the last time you saw them stopping traffic
on the Interstate and looking for refilled one pound propane canisters. And
how would one tell they were refilled?

Sheesh.

Steve

"Glenn" wrote in message
...
IME the little valve on the small propane tanks is not a normal shrader
valve but a reliefe valve. To open it you have to grab the pin with a
needle nose plier and pull out on it. You can then vent the small tank
and fill it as full as you like. If you get it over full it will vent
when it warms up.
Glenn

Exactly. It is activated by internal pressure. It looks like a Schrader,
but that is as far as it goes. Try one that is nearly empty with some
needlenose pliers.

What good would the safety device be if increasing pressure only seated it
more? You are 100 % correct, sir.

Steve

We have probably 6 of the old style 20 pounders. As a commercial entity,
we've never had to justify their use.
We use one 20 to power our Drott Go-Devil, and dad refills his camping
bottles as well.


"Steve B" wrote in message
news:az0wf.7150$JT.6358@fed1read06...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:

I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its collar
on a
wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.

I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.


Well, you will notice past tense. It shows how long it has been since I
refilled any of the tanks.

BTW, someone here said if you label the old tanks "FOR CUTTING ONLY" that
you can get them refilled.

Steve

Why not get one of the adapters for stoves and run the torch off the big
bottle? Never done it but would think it would work.
Karl


"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:eWZvf.14109$em5.5080@trnddc05...
Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing
by
weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could
pull
a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I inverted
the
pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I would be
happy
if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going through a lot of
this
stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill,
but
not much.

Ivan Vegvary

Back in my steam tug modeling days I chopped a standard bottle down so it
would fit in the hull. Refilled it regularly and hauled the boat to meets
all over the SE. At several meets there were state boiler and fire
inspectors checking all the installations before we could fire up. A lot of
the other propane fired boats that came from all over the country had
similar setups. No inspector ever called us for "transporting" and we were
refilling right in front of them.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:kO1wf.7159$JT.4172@fed1read06...

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote

.

But remember - it is ILLEGAL to TRANSPORT a refilled cyl not
specifically designated as refillable.

This has been beaten to death. TRANSPORT means for a licensed interstate
carrier to take the refilled goods over a state line for pay. Intrastate
is covered by state DOTs. Private citizens are not hassled because there
is very small danger, and when was the last time you saw them stopping
traffic on the Interstate and looking for refilled one pound propane
canisters. And how would one tell they were refilled?

Sheesh.

Steve

Here is some advice from someone who does this a lot.
Warm the big tank. OPD or not, it will fill the small one.
You may not get the OPD tank to fill the small tank when the OPD is nearer
to empty.
Chill the small tank in the freezer. It works on pressure differential only,
and liquid comes out when the big tank is inverted.
It is best to weigh the small tanks to get it filled correctly. New ones
weigh 2 lbs. Empty weigh 1 lb.
Weigh yours to be sure where you are at with a new one / empty one.
Put the adapter on the big tank, tightly. Screw on a 1 pounder. Invert the
whole works, open valve and wait one minute.
Close valve, unscrew the small tank in the upright position.
Should fill it damn near to 2 lb weight. You may have to re-chill the small
tank again (and repeat the process for 10 seconds) to get the last 10-20% in
(80% full, 2 lbs). This is as full as a new one.
I have refilled some (super size) 2lb, 1 or 2lb, 2 oz. Just don't bring them
into a warm
environment (100 F), or they may bleed off.
Be careful ! ! ! If you are not sure what you are doing, don't do it.
David

"everyman" wrote in message
...
Why not get one of the adapters for stoves and run the torch off the big
bottle? Never done it but would think it would work.
Karl



I had one of those. Under twenty bucks, IIRC. A very economical way to go.
Plus, you can buy "trees" and run more than one thing at a time, like stove
and lantern.

STeve

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:


I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its collar on a
wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.


I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.



I think you might be incorrect on that one. I've had a HF adaptor for
years now, and invert the larger tank when refilling the smaller ones.

IIRC the overfill protection valve is a float which rises to shut off
the flow passage when the tank is overfilled with liquid while standing
upright. When you invert the tank as when using the HF adaptor to refill
a small tank the float rises towards the bottom of the tank, which
leaves the valve passage open, if there's a decent amount of liquid in
the larger tank.

Course I could be wrong about that, maybe the latest valves have a
secondary mechanism to close off the valve passage when the tank is
inverted?

One thing I always wondered about was overfilling a smaller tank so that
it might vent (or G-d forbid burst?) if the surrounding temperature
rose. I'm chicken about that kind of thing so I weighed a couple of just
purchased tanks on the kitchen scale, wrote the weights on them and
check them after refilling to make sure they're not above their marked
weights.

Agreement/disagreement or clarification of any ofwhat I just wrote would
be welcomed.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Well I suckered for it. Bought the HF brass fitting whereby you can
transfer some propane from your barbeque type bottle to your hand held
flask.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45989
Tried it, BUT, it only fills the flask to about 10%±. I'm just guessing by
weight.
The flask in this instance does have a shrader valve on it and I could pull
a vacuum prior to filling. Would this be of great help? If I inverted the
pair of tanks would I be able to get liquid into the tank? I would be happy
if I could get near the 50% mark. Son-in-law is going through a lot of this
stuff doing candle art.

Advice appreciated. BTW, did give it about a half hour. It does fill, but
not much.

Ivan Vegvary


I have one also. Build a wooden stand to suport the "B-B-Q" tank upside
down such that the one being refiled is setting on the table.
Second cool the "refillee" (empty one) in the freezer and warm the
"refiller" (full one). Works fairly well.
...lew...

David Seidel covers how to do it pretty well. I will just add a little
to what he says. I never warm the big tank, but would if it was below
say 60 degrees F. I don't vent the little tank by pulling on the
pressure relief valve. If you do that, you may get some ice or
something prevents it from closing completely. Not a big hazard, but a
slow leak. I have always gotten it to seal again after some playing
around with it, but decided it was easier not to mess with it.

I put the little tank in the freezer before filling it. If it is
completely empty, it warms up rapidly when the new propane goes in. So
you don't get much propane into the little tank. So chill it again and
you will get a lot more the second time. Do it one more time and you
are likely to get it completely full and have some coming out of the
pressure relief valve when it warms up. Which reminds me, I need to
refill the little tank I use for starting the wood stove before it gets
completely empty.

Dan

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:vQ1wf.7160$JT.1619@fed1read06...

"Glenn" wrote in message
...
IME the little valve on the small propane tanks is not a normal shrader
valve but a reliefe valve. To open it you have to grab the pin with a
needle nose plier and pull out on it. You can then vent the small tank
and fill it as full as you like. If you get it over full it will vent
when it warms up.
Glenn

Exactly. It is activated by internal pressure. It looks like a Schrader,
but that is as far as it goes. Try one that is nearly empty with some
needlenose pliers.

What good would the safety device be if increasing pressure only seated it
more? You are 100 % correct, sir.

Steve

I agree. I've been refilling the little tanks for about 20 years, tho not
the same ones.;-) The small tank does not have to be colder than the big one
if you vent gas off the little one as you fill, but it would probably help.
The venting is gaseous untill the little tank is full. When filled, the
venting becomes liquid and it's easy to tell if your not wearing gloves! The
20# tank is kept upside down, the little tank upright. After a few
refillings the vent valves sometimes seep gas. I store these outside and use
them immediatley if I can. Sometimes they will stop leaking if you fiddle
with the valve, sometimes you lose the gas. I havent tried filling with the
OPD tanks yet. I tried getting a non-OPD tank refilled at Amerigas by
putting a sign on it that said 'FOR INDUSTRIAL USE ONLY' but they wouldn't
do it. Company policy, no 20# refills on old tanks. I'm going to try the
little tank in the freezer trick next. The percentage of propane lost to
venting, now that the cost of propane is higher, is enough that the gas
lost may be significant.
Good luck and please don't smoke while refilling.

--
Tom Wait
Barton Rifle Shop
1805 Barton Ave Suite #9
West Bend, Wisconsin 53090
(262) 306-RIFL (7435)

"Lew Hartswick" wrote
I have one also. Build a wooden stand to suport the "B-B-Q" tank upside
down such that the one being refiled is setting on the table.
Second cool the "refillee" (empty one) in the freezer and warm the
"refiller" (full one). Works fairly well.
...lew...
Are you filling with an OPD tank? Will it empty of liquid when it is
inverted?
Tom

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:


I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its
collar on a wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.



I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.



I think you might be incorrect on that one. I've had a HF adaptor for
years now, and invert the larger tank when refilling the smaller ones.

IIRC the overfill protection valve is a float which rises to shut off
the flow passage when the tank is overfilled with liquid while standing
upright. When you invert the tank as when using the HF adaptor to refill
a small tank the float rises towards the bottom of the tank, which
leaves the valve passage open, if there's a decent amount of liquid in
the larger tank.

Course I could be wrong about that, maybe the latest valves have a
secondary mechanism to close off the valve passage when the tank is
inverted?

One thing I always wondered about was overfilling a smaller tank so that
it might vent (or G-d forbid burst?) if the surrounding temperature
rose. I'm chicken about that kind of thing so I weighed a couple of just
purchased tanks on the kitchen scale, wrote the weights on them and
check them after refilling to make sure they're not above their marked
weights.

Agreement/disagreement or clarification of any ofwhat I just wrote would
be welcomed.

Jeff


Well, I had to go and see if my memory was playing tricks on me so I
tried topping off of a partially empty Bernzomatic bottle from an
inverted 20 lb OPD valved tank. (A "Blue Rhino" I'd swapped out my last
non OPD tank for a couple of years ago.)

Even though the 20 pounder was been sitting outside in about 35F
Taxachusetts temperature, I brought it into the garage and after putting
the small tank in the kitchen freezer for 15 minutes I was able to
squirt a half pound of gas into it in roughly 15 seconds.

YMMV,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

In article ilawf.4042$Dh.53@dukeread04,
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote:

Back in my steam tug modeling days I chopped a standard bottle down so it
would fit in the hull. Refilled it regularly and hauled the boat to meets
all over the SE.

Tell me more about chopping a standard bottle down. I could use a
smaller refillable propane bottle, preferably smaller diameter too.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Well, I removed the shrader valve and filled the bottle with water to make
sure it was purged of all gas. Then I put it on the trusty old Jet 4"
bandsaw and cut about half inch above the base ring and again about 4" below
the base of the valve. You can't cut to close or you will hit the relief
valve fixture. I covered the top in heat dam clay so I would not melt any
rubber in the main valve. Then I set the MIG on the lowest setting and
tacked the top and bottom together followed by a full bead all the way
around. After that I filled it with water again and pressure tested it to
250 PSI with the rig I used to test my boilers. Drained the water and left
it in a warm place to let it dry out before I reinstalled the shrader valve.

Made 3 of them and they are still going strong though I did recently replace
a small O-ring in the top after many uses which was the dickens to get out.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Nick Hull" wrote in message
...
In article ilawf.4042$Dh.53@dukeread04,
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote:

Back in my steam tug modeling days I chopped a standard bottle down so it
would fit in the hull. Refilled it regularly and hauled the boat to
meets
all over the SE.

Tell me more about chopping a standard bottle down. I could use a
smaller refillable propane bottle, preferably smaller diameter too.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 15:10:35 GMT, "everyman"
wrote:

Why not get one of the adapters for stoves and run the torch off the big
bottle? Never done it but would think it would work.
Karl


As posted recently, I have, and use two of these.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:43:27 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
"David Seidel" quickly quoth:

Here is some advice from someone who does this a lot.
Warm the big tank. OPD or not, it will fill the small one.
You may not get the OPD tank to fill the small tank when the OPD is nearer
to empty.

Thanks, David. I'll grab one of those adapters the next time I
hit the HF store. I keep some of the one pounders around for
the times the power is out and I want a nice, hot cup of coffee
or lunch/dinner. The 1-burner stoves are extremely handy in that
case and are portable should the "civilized" world end abruptly.
I also keep one for the propane torch.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 12:34:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Jeff
Wisnia quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.

I think you might be incorrect on that one. I've had a HF adaptor for
years now, and invert the larger tank when refilling the smaller ones.

As I just told David, I sit corrected. (Too lazy to stand)


One thing I always wondered about was overfilling a smaller tank so that
it might vent (or G-d forbid burst?) if the surrounding temperature

They're protected with the overpressure valve. And don't vent them
anywhere near any equipment which could self-activate (compressor,
light switch, etc.) and cause a spark. (The usual common sense stuff
we all know and usually do. We're -not- Darwin candidates.)


Agreement/disagreement or clarification of any ofwhat I just wrote would
be welcomed.

I think it should probably be said that if the tank and valve are
steel, the pliers used to vent it should be protected with tape (or be
made of a non-ferrous material) to avoid a spark during venting.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design

Larry Jaques wrote:

Thanks, David. I'll grab one of those adapters the next time I
hit the HF store. ...

My adapter is just 2 fittings soldered together. The fittings were in
my junk box, but I see them at the dump all the time. The only
complication was that the small tank fitting had a check valve that I
had to drill out. Bob

30 gallons are the smallest commercial bottles that are not required to the OPD.

If you upturn a OPD - it turns off. Cannot dump liquid from a OPD into an old tank.

When you buy a new tank - be sure the tank is dumped by the propane company.
The internal gas won't burn and it just fills it. They have a special tool
that allows dumping.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Jon Grimm wrote:
We have probably 6 of the old style 20 pounders. As a commercial entity,
we've never had to justify their use.
We use one 20 to power our Drott Go-Devil, and dad refills his camping
bottles as well.


"Steve B" wrote in message
news:az0wf.7150$JT.6358@fed1read06...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:


I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its collar
on a
wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.

I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.


Well, you will notice past tense. It shows how long it has been since I
refilled any of the tanks.

BTW, someone here said if you label the old tanks "FOR CUTTING ONLY" that
you can get them refilled.

Steve





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The tanks auto dump and re-seal.
I've had them do that in my truck on the way home. - On a cold wet day it is obvious.
Tanks should not explode - Never heard of one - unless in a fire.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:34:40 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve B" quickly quoth:


I ALWAYS inverted my tanks. The big tank will sit nicely on its
collar on a wood picnic table, with the smaller tank at a right angle.



I thought the OPD valves on new tanks prevented overfilling OR any
possible liquid propane discharge. Am I wrong? I'd rather refill
my old 1 pound tanks if possible.



I think you might be incorrect on that one. I've had a HF adaptor for
years now, and invert the larger tank when refilling the smaller ones.

IIRC the overfill protection valve is a float which rises to shut off
the flow passage when the tank is overfilled with liquid while standing
upright. When you invert the tank as when using the HF adaptor to refill
a small tank the float rises towards the bottom of the tank, which
leaves the valve passage open, if there's a decent amount of liquid in
the larger tank.

Course I could be wrong about that, maybe the latest valves have a
secondary mechanism to close off the valve passage when the tank is
inverted?

One thing I always wondered about was overfilling a smaller tank so that
it might vent (or G-d forbid burst?) if the surrounding temperature
rose. I'm chicken about that kind of thing so I weighed a couple of just
purchased tanks on the kitchen scale, wrote the weights on them and
check them after refilling to make sure they're not above their marked
weights.

Agreement/disagreement or clarification of any ofwhat I just wrote would
be welcomed.

Jeff


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Tom Wait wrote:

"Lew Hartswick" wrote

I have one also. Build a wooden stand to suport the "B-B-Q" tank upside
down such that the one being refiled is setting on the table.
Second cool the "refillee" (empty one) in the freezer and warm the
"refiller" (full one). Works fairly well.
...lew...

Are you filling with an OPD tank? Will it empty of liquid when it is
inverted?
Tom


The last time I did it was with a old style tank. The next time
I will have to use the OPD one now on the grill. Come summer. :-)
...lew...

Jeffry Wisnia's message reminded me that I ought to refill the little
torch tank I use for lighting the wood stove. I like to refill before
the tank is completely empty because a completely empty tank chilled in
the freezer compartment warms up rapidly when you fill it. So you
don't get much in the tank the first time you chill and fill when the
tank is completely empty. The second time works well.

I did refill it using a 20 lb tank with a OPD valve. Worked a bit too
well, filled it completely.
So I had to use it to ginger up the woodstove so it was no longer
completely full.


Dan

Bob Engelhardt writes:

You have to waste (by venting) a lot of flammable gas to overcome the
thermodynamic work needed to move the stuff from one place to another.

I never do. It's not necessary if the small tank is cooler, as gas
there will condense if the pressure exceeds the vapor pressure for that
temperature.

This requires additional apparatus which one assumes the OP is not using.
You might as well assume he has a pump in the transfer line. Something has
to perform the work, and venting is the simplest method, although not most
materially efficient.

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Bob Engelhardt writes:

You have to waste (by venting) a lot of flammable gas to overcome the
thermodynamic work needed to move the stuff from one place to another.

I never do. It's not necessary if the small tank is cooler, as gas
there will condense if the pressure exceeds the vapor pressure for that
temperature.

This requires additional apparatus which one assumes the OP is not using.
You might as well assume he has a pump in the transfer line. Something has
to perform the work, and venting is the simplest method, although not most
materially efficient.

I have one of those 'refillable' tanks and I consider it too dangerous
to use. It's quite easy to arrange a temperature differential to do the
work without wasting gas and creating an explosive environment. Putting
the big tank in sunlight and a wet rag on the small tank works well.
Also, if you don't object to the stink of unburned propane you are
probably a smoker who can smell little if anything.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Bob Engelhardt writes:
I never do. It's not necessary if the small tank is cooler, ...

This requires additional apparatus which one assumes the OP is not using.
The big tank in the sun, the small one in a bucket of water is
"apparatus"? I don't think that it's a stretch to assume that the OP
has a bucket for water.

I don't like working the vent: you risk damaging or marginalizing it,
and I find that the obnoxious stink gets on my hands. And it is a
higher class skill than putting a cylinder in a bucket of water.

You might as well assume he has a pump in the transfer line. ...
You consider a bucket of water to be in the same class of "apparatus" as
a liquid propane pump? Be careful with your credibility, it is a very
valuable asset.

Bob

Bob Engelhardt writes:

You consider a bucket of water to be in the same class of "apparatus" as
a liquid propane pump?

Yes, in the sense that you have to assemble stuff instead of just pulling
open a vent. And I suspect the sunlight-n-wet-rag method doesn't work very
quickly.

Be careful with your credibility, it is a very valuable asset.

My credibility does not hinge on your absurd exegeses.