Richard J Kinch wrote:
My credibility does not hinge on your absurd exegeses.

"exegeses"??? Oh, yeah - I get it: use a word that nobody knows so
we'll see how smart you are and then we'll all agree that you must be
right. OK - you're right.

So how do you get gas out of the OPD into the other tank ?

Are you holding it at an angle ?

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



wrote:
Jeffry Wisnia's message reminded me that I ought to refill the little
torch tank I use for lighting the wood stove. I like to refill before
the tank is completely empty because a completely empty tank chilled in
the freezer compartment warms up rapidly when you fill it. So you
don't get much in the tank the first time you chill and fill when the
tank is completely empty. The second time works well.

I did refill it using a 20 lb tank with a OPD valve. Worked a bit too
well, filled it completely.
So I had to use it to ginger up the woodstove so it was no longer
completely full.


Dan


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I just held the 20 # tank upsidedown. The fact that it was an OPD
valve tank did not seem to matter.

Dan

The valve by design is supposed to turn off due to the internal float.
It is designed to save our little skins from the bad propane bottles... :-)
Maybe you have one that is not functional.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



wrote:
I just held the 20 # tank upsidedown. The fact that it was an OPD
valve tank did not seem to matter.

Dan


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On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:45:18 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

The valve by design is supposed to turn off due to the internal float.
It is designed to save our little skins from the bad propane bottles... :-)
Maybe you have one that is not functional.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Greetings Martin,
After thinking about this a little it seems to me that liquid would
come out just fine. When the tank is upright the float rises with the
liquid until the valve is shut off. When the tank is inverted wouldn't
the float now rise again? Except this time when it rises it is toward
the bottom of the tank because the bottom is now at the top. This
should open the valve. I guess the only way to test this is to invert
my OPD tank with a torch screwed into it.
ERS

wrote:
I just held the 20 # tank upsidedown. The fact that it was an OPD
valve tank did not seem to matter.

Dan


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On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 17:20:05 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

We're -not- Darwin candidates.

Course we are! We're just harder to light.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:54:53 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:45:18 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

The valve by design is supposed to turn off due to the internal float.
It is designed to save our little skins from the bad propane bottles... :-)
Maybe you have one that is not functional.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Greetings Martin,
After thinking about this a little it seems to me that liquid would
come out just fine. When the tank is upright the float rises with the
liquid until the valve is shut off. When the tank is inverted wouldn't
the float now rise again? Except this time when it rises it is toward
the bottom of the tank because the bottom is now at the top. This
should open the valve. I guess the only way to test this is to invert
my OPD tank with a torch screwed into it.
ERS

I found this cut away image (along with a few others) of an
OPD device:

http://www.grandhall.com/overfill.htm

I don't know if they all look the same or not, but the ones
I checked did.

It looks like liquid would come out okay if the tank wasn't
almost empty. Hard to say how the float might act at that
point...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Bob Engelhardt writes:

"exegeses"???

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exegeses

I see your logic, but remember it cuts off the gas if dumped over.
Have you seen the funny/stupid add on TV with the women at the window playing with it -
as the dog, man and Barbie blows up... that's why we get OPD.

I like one thing - I don't have to get a wrench from the shop to change a
bottle now. Just reach down and turn like my mind wants - right hand outside screw.
Not the left hand internal with a hex nut.

I think there are internal elements - like on wet/dry vacs - with a floating ball...
Without one in a hand, it is hard to say for certain. There was a web page
that showed some of this or how it worked.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Eric R Snow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:45:18 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


The valve by design is supposed to turn off due to the internal float.
It is designed to save our little skins from the bad propane bottles... :-)
Maybe you have one that is not functional.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder


Greetings Martin,
After thinking about this a little it seems to me that liquid would
come out just fine. When the tank is upright the float rises with the
liquid until the valve is shut off. When the tank is inverted wouldn't
the float now rise again? Except this time when it rises it is toward
the bottom of the tank because the bottom is now at the top. This
should open the valve. I guess the only way to test this is to invert
my OPD tank with a torch screwed into it.
ERS

wrote:

I just held the 20 # tank upsidedown. The fact that it was an OPD
valve tank did not seem to matter.

Dan


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http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=530

Perhaps the early ones cut off the gas but now the new ones don't ? Hum... :

Q: Roofers and other commercial customers are trying to use OPD equipped tanks on torch applications and they are not getting an
adequate flow through the valve. What can we do about this?

A: Some of the early OPD valves had an insufficient flow capacity for certain types of service such as high-pressure torch
applications. Market competition has resulted in OPD's becoming available that have significantly greater rates of flow.

©NPGA 2002


Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:54:53 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:


On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:45:18 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


The valve by design is supposed to turn off due to the internal float.
It is designed to save our little skins from the bad propane bottles... :-)
Maybe you have one that is not functional.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder


Greetings Martin,
After thinking about this a little it seems to me that liquid would
come out just fine. When the tank is upright the float rises with the
liquid until the valve is shut off. When the tank is inverted wouldn't
the float now rise again? Except this time when it rises it is toward
the bottom of the tank because the bottom is now at the top. This
should open the valve. I guess the only way to test this is to invert
my OPD tank with a torch screwed into it.
ERS


I found this cut away image (along with a few others) of an
OPD device:

http://www.grandhall.com/overfill.htm

I don't know if they all look the same or not, but the ones
I checked did.

It looks like liquid would come out okay if the tank wasn't
almost empty. Hard to say how the float might act at that
point...

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Awesome ! !
All though the...... (sky is falling people) will probably flip.
I think this is Very cool.
Just have to be darn sure of what you are doing.
David
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:I4hwf.4083$Dh.1662@dukeread04...
Well, I removed the shrader valve and filled the bottle with water to make
sure it was purged of all gas. Then I put it on the trusty old Jet 4"
bandsaw and cut about half inch above the base ring and again about 4"
below the base of the valve. You can't cut to close or you will hit the
relief valve fixture. I covered the top in heat dam clay so I would not
melt any rubber in the main valve. Then I set the MIG on the lowest
setting and tacked the top and bottom together followed by a full bead all
the way around. After that I filled it with water again and pressure
tested it to 250 PSI with the rig I used to test my boilers. Drained the
water and left it in a warm place to let it dry out before I reinstalled
the shrader valve.

Made 3 of them and they are still going strong though I did recently
replace a small O-ring in the top after many uses which was the dickens to
get out.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Nick Hull" wrote in message
...
In article ilawf.4042$Dh.53@dukeread04,
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote:

Back in my steam tug modeling days I chopped a standard bottle down so
it
would fit in the hull. Refilled it regularly and hauled the boat to
meets
all over the SE.

Tell me more about chopping a standard bottle down. I could use a
smaller refillable propane bottle, preferably smaller diameter too.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

I saw 'em in two and use 'em as drinking cups. The wife has a full set now.
Thsoe made from the 20# ers are a bit hard to hold, though.

Bob Swinney

"Nick Hull" wrote in message
...
In article ilawf.4042$Dh.53@dukeread04,
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote:

Back in my steam tug modeling days I chopped a standard bottle down so it
would fit in the hull. Refilled it regularly and hauled the boat to
meets
all over the SE.

Tell me more about chopping a standard bottle down. I could use a
smaller refillable propane bottle, preferably smaller diameter too.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Hey, folks. I refill the small 1 lb coleman cylinders all the time.
Harbor freight sells an adapter you screw onto your warm (60 - 70 F)
20lb cylinder.
Put an EMPTY 1lb into the freezer overnight.
Screw the bottle on the adapter connected to the 20lb.
Flip this assembly upside down THEN open the valve for 1 minute.
Close valve, THEN put assembly right side up.
Remove 1 lb. You will get a poof of gas as the safety tube in the 20lb
purges.
Be sure to remove the adapter for storage to keep the 20lb safe.
This fills them to the perfect level about ten times. Then you can
refill the 20lb.
I believe messing with the valve or filling 2 or 3 times is STUPID!!!
I have done it this way for years.
If the 1lb shows ANY sign of leakage at the valve I simply toss it and
use a new one. Hey, they are pretty cheap and not worth getting killed
over.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey, folks. I refill the small 1 lb coleman cylinders all the time.
Harbor freight sells an adapter you screw onto your warm (60 - 70 F)
20lb cylinder.
Put an EMPTY 1lb into the freezer overnight.
Screw the bottle on the adapter connected to the 20lb.
Flip this assembly upside down THEN open the valve for 1 minute.
Close valve, THEN put assembly right side up.
Remove 1 lb. You will get a poof of gas as the safety tube in the 20lb
purges.

I fill CO2 tanks for paintball the same way. Sometimes I skip the freezer
part, and just put a couple ounces of CO2 in the small tank, then let it
vent. That cools the tank very well. Of course, I wouldn't recommend that
for propane.

You really should be using scales when you fill your tanks. It is quite
possible to overfill them the way you're doing it. Remember, as your tank
warms up, the pressure inside increases.

its about impossible to overfill a propane disposable since the
adapeter and bbq tank cause the little disposable to sit sideways

on my best fill o've only ever been able to get 12 oz back inside

i use a 2 pound scale an empty disposable weighs 14.5(coleman brand
with plastic bottom that always falls off) at the fill if i get 26 oz
i'm happy its enough to keep my lantern working all night

some times it doesnt seal off when removing and has a little hiss so i
take a nail and just poke the valve until it is seated(kind of a
tapping motion)

having them in the freezer overnight makes the seals not seal so good
so i just fridge em for 20 minutes

and make sure you leave the bbq tank in the sun to heat it up

propane, co2, and nitrous all have low boiling points, and all are
pretty similar.

from filling nitrous bottles, i have figured otu a few things. saying
you can't fill a propane bottle full because it is on itsside is
incorrect. we are NOT talking about water and air where it flows liquid
until it can' t fill.

the whole trick is temperature. the propane flows from high pressure to
low pressure. there are only two ways to create a pressure
differential. Temperature, and a pump. with either, you can move
propane from the high pressure side to teh low pressure side, until
pressures are equal, no matter how much head spade there is.

propane in gasseous state takes a lot longer then propane in liquid
state to move through a hose. Further, if you are moving the prpoane in
gaseous state, you must convert the propane in hte sending tank from
liquid to gaseous, which takes up a lot of heat.

Therefore, the sending tank cools off in a big hurry. Likewise, the
tank receiving gas must convert it to liquid, which warms the receiving
tank up.

if you overfill the little tank, and the over pressure valve fails, a
VERY VERY large explosion can occur. It only takes a little head space,
but it does take some head space.

For grins, and a feeble example, stuff some dry ice into a plastic pop
bottle, screw on the lid, adn throw it out in the sun for 20 minutes.
do not stand very close. it is pretty impressive to see what happens
when a container blows up.

i used to fill nitrous botttle FULL, then crack the top for a second
wasting some liquid nitrous. it guaranteed some head space.

well i've filled close to 50 little tanks and havent been able to get
more than 12 oz in a 16oz container

a pop bottle can only handle 90 psi

in my locale they call dry ice in a glass bottle a"infernal device"

anybody know the maximum pressure dry ice can make in a container
assume ambiant temp 80 farenheit

When I was a kid (about 30 years ago) I helped my dad with wheat
harvest. Our 2 combines ran on propane. The tank on the combine was 8
to 10 feet above ground. Our supply tank was about 4 feet above
ground. We'd connect the two tanks and open the bleeder valve, venting
vapor into the air. Liquid propane moved up to fill the tank on the
combine. Did this every day for the week or two of harvest.

yea but your ground tank had a wet leg

a bbq tank doesnt so you have to turn it upsidedown to get liquid
propane

also it wastes a bit of propane when you vent it is not a signifigant
percentage when filling large tanks