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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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1.5HP motor problem
I just got a WEG Brazilian brand motor on eBay. It's new but was manufactured 3 years
ago. Instruction states that if stored for two years bearings must be replaced or grease changed or grease must be totally replaced. Also capacitors must be replaced. If I do all of the above cost of the motor will probably triple. Motor runs but seems to be underpowered for it's rating - NEMA 1.5HP Any suggestions? Thanks |
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Alex wrote:
I just got a WEG Brazilian brand motor on eBay. It's new but was manufactured 3 years ago. Instruction states that if stored for two years bearings must be replaced or grease changed or grease must be totally replaced. Also capacitors must be replaced. If I do all of the above cost of the motor will probably triple. Motor runs but seems to be underpowered for it's rating - NEMA 1.5HP It will most likely be fine as it is. This is probably just a sort of disclaimer the manufacturer adds to the instructions. Pump some more grease into the bearings if there are grease nipples present. If not, you could dismantle and inspect the grease - it's generally pretty easy to tell if the grease has dried out. What makes you think it is underpowered? Chris |
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I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can.
Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Thanks, Alex Christopher Tidy wrote: Alex wrote: I just got a WEG Brazilian brand motor on eBay. It's new but was manufactured 3 years ago. Instruction states that if stored for two years bearings must be replaced or grease changed or grease must be totally replaced. Also capacitors must be replaced. If I do all of the above cost of the motor will probably triple. Motor runs but seems to be underpowered for it's rating - NEMA 1.5HP It will most likely be fine as it is. This is probably just a sort of disclaimer the manufacturer adds to the instructions. Pump some more grease into the bearings if there are grease nipples present. If not, you could dismantle and inspect the grease - it's generally pretty easy to tell if the grease has dried out. What makes you think it is underpowered? Chris |
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Alex wrote:
I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Thanks, Alex What does the motor data plate say? Do you have a picture of the data plate? What voltage is the supply in your house? How did you stall it? With a long wooden stick or what? Chris |
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:16:47 GMT, Alex wrote:
I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Using your multimeter, observe line voltage at the motor when it is loaded. If the voltage dips, your wiring isn't up to the load -- quite likely with 1927 wiring. |
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Christopher Tidy wrote:
Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Thanks, Alex What does the motor data plate say? Do you have a picture of the data plate? What voltage is the supply in your house? How did you stall it? With a long wooden stick or what? Chris It's a metal 2x72 grinder. I can stall it by grinding small piece of steel or aluminum quite easy. I have 115V in my house. It's a WEG motor model #00158ES1BF56C. you can find it on www.wegelectric.com/catalog Here is the specs: # Output: 1.5 HP # Poles: 4 # Frequency: 60 Hz # Torque: 4.44 lb.ft # Voltage: 115/208-230 V # Frame: F56H # RPM: 1750 # Full Load Amps: 17.4/8.70 A # Efficiency (100%): 76.5 # Power factor (100%): 0.72 # Insulation: B # Noise: --- # No load current: 11.8/5.90 A # In Rush (Times): 6.5 Full Load Amps 17.4/8.70 A In Rush (Times) 6.5 Locked Rotor Torque 280 % Break Down Torque 260 % Thanks, Alex |
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Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:16:47 GMT, Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Using your multimeter, observe line voltage at the motor when it is loaded. If the voltage dips, your wiring isn't up to the load -- quite likely with 1927 wiring. Please tell me exactly how to do it. I am an electrically illiterate person Thanks, Alex |
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In article , Alex
wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:16:47 GMT, Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Using your multimeter, observe line voltage at the motor when it is loaded. If the voltage dips, your wiring isn't up to the load -- quite likely with 1927 wiring. Please tell me exactly how to do it. I am an electrically illiterate person Thanks, Alex Make sure that the motor is wired for 110 volts and not the higher one. Chuck P. |
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Alex wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Thanks, Alex What does the motor data plate say? Do you have a picture of the data plate? What voltage is the supply in your house? How did you stall it? With a long wooden stick or what? Chris It's a metal 2x72 grinder. I can stall it by grinding small piece of steel or aluminum quite easy. I have 115V in my house. It's a WEG motor model #00158ES1BF56C. you can find it on www.wegelectric.com/catalog Here is the specs: # Output: 1.5 HP # Poles: 4 # Frequency: 60 Hz # Torque: 4.44 lb.ft # Voltage: 115/208-230 V Check that the motor isn't wired for 208-230 V. There should be two main windings connected in parallel for 115 V operation, or series for 208-230 V operation. There will also be a start winding. For operation at the lower voltage the start winding is connected directly across the supply by the centrifugal switch. For operation at the higher voltage one end of the start winding is connected to the point at which the two main windings are joined, and the other end to the centrifugal switch. To test your supply voltage you need to set your multimeter to measure AC volts. Most have a 250 V range which would be the best to choose. Figure out a safe method to connect the meter in parallel with your motor. Don't just try to push the probes against the terminals under the motor cover. Be careful! Best wishes, Chris |
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Alex wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Using your multimeter, observe line voltage at the motor when it is loaded. If the voltage dips, your wiring isn't up to the load -- quite likely with 1927 wiring. Please tell me exactly how to do it. I am an electrically illiterate person Uh, do you know enough to not electrocute yourself? Did the motor come with instructions? If so did the instructions describe wiring options for both 110V and 220V? |
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:36:45 GMT, Alex wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:16:47 GMT, Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Using your multimeter, observe line voltage at the motor when it is loaded. If the voltage dips, your wiring isn't up to the load -- quite likely with 1927 wiring. Please tell me exactly how to do it. I am an electrically illiterate person Then I would respectfully suggest that you don't attempt it. Get someone who is familiar with electricity to help you. |
#12
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When I turn on the motor I can see that light bulb above me gets dimmer for a second.
I now realize it might be a sign of a voltage dip. Am I right? Thanks, Alex Alex wrote: Christopher Tidy wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Thanks, Alex What does the motor data plate say? Do you have a picture of the data plate? What voltage is the supply in your house? How did you stall it? With a long wooden stick or what? Chris It's a metal 2x72 grinder. I can stall it by grinding small piece of steel or aluminum quite easy. I have 115V in my house. It's a WEG motor model #00158ES1BF56C. you can find it on www.wegelectric.com/catalog Here is the specs: # Output: 1.5 HP # Poles: 4 # Frequency: 60 Hz # Torque: 4.44 lb.ft # Voltage: 115/208-230 V Check that the motor isn't wired for 208-230 V. There should be two main windings connected in parallel for 115 V operation, or series for 208-230 V operation. There will also be a start winding. For operation at the lower voltage the start winding is connected directly across the supply by the centrifugal switch. For operation at the higher voltage one end of the start winding is connected to the point at which the two main windings are joined, and the other end to the centrifugal switch. To test your supply voltage you need to set your multimeter to measure AC volts. Most have a 250 V range which would be the best to choose. Figure out a safe method to connect the meter in parallel with your motor. Don't just try to push the probes against the terminals under the motor cover. Be careful! Best wishes, Chris |
#13
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Alex wrote:
I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes -- Reply to: Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie Lycos address is a spam trap. |
#14
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A dimmed light is not great but quite common. It is a sign of undersized
wiring back to the breaker box and beyond (or an excessively large load for the particular circuit). BUT....... if the bulb comes back up to full brightness, you should have enough power to run your motor at full speed/power. Stick the leads from your multimerter (set to the voltmeter) into the other plug on the wall outlet, measure the voltage. Turn the motor on, see how much voltage sag you get at startup and at run. It should start at 120 to 125 volts (standard power company voltage) will certainly drop to something like 105 to 110 volts, then come back up to close to the starting voltage. You want to measure as accurately as you can the DIFFERENCE between no load and running load. A couple of volts difference is normal, 6 or 8 volts difference is a sign of wiring issues. Alex wrote: When I turn on the motor I can see that light bulb above me gets dimmer for a second. I now realize it might be a sign of a voltage dip. Am I right? Thanks, Alex Alex wrote: Christopher Tidy wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. Thanks, Alex What does the motor data plate say? Do you have a picture of the data plate? What voltage is the supply in your house? How did you stall it? With a long wooden stick or what? Chris It's a metal 2x72 grinder. I can stall it by grinding small piece of steel or aluminum quite easy. I have 115V in my house. It's a WEG motor model #00158ES1BF56C. you can find it on www.wegelectric.com/catalog Here is the specs: # Output: 1.5 HP # Poles: 4 # Frequency: 60 Hz # Torque: 4.44 lb.ft # Voltage: 115/208-230 V Check that the motor isn't wired for 208-230 V. There should be two main windings connected in parallel for 115 V operation, or series for 208-230 V operation. There will also be a start winding. For operation at the lower voltage the start winding is connected directly across the supply by the centrifugal switch. For operation at the higher voltage one end of the start winding is connected to the point at which the two main windings are joined, and the other end to the centrifugal switch. To test your supply voltage you need to set your multimeter to measure AC volts. Most have a 250 V range which would be the best to choose. Figure out a safe method to connect the meter in parallel with your motor. Don't just try to push the probes against the terminals under the motor cover. Be careful! Best wishes, Chris |
#16
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"Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
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When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then
goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex Jerry Martes wrote: "Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
#18
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Alex wrote:
When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? I would say 70 V is too big a drop. That's losing more than a third of the supply voltage. You might find it easier to visualise the situation if you use an analogue multimeter. Chris |
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"Alex" wrote in message . .. When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex Alex I have been assuming that you are curious to know if your new 1 1/2 HP motor is working properly. Now you ask if the input voltage as supplied by your house is adequet for this motor. Get a voltmeter that connects to your computer and a program to save the data from its readings. Then it is easy to record the voltage at the input to the motor as a function of time. Excel will allow you to display a graph of the line voltage as a function of time. If you get a data saving program that is fast enough, it is easy to see exactly what voltage is existant at the motor input terminals at any time. Or, you can go to a neighbor's house and try the motor there. If *I* was asked to make a guess at whats wrong with the 1 1/2 HP motor, I'd guess nothing. Jerry Jerry Martes wrote: "Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
#20
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What kind of place is your shop? Normal residential wiring should be at *least*
110V and usually more like 117V. 108V makes me wonder if your power is some weird split off of 3-phase or something. Low voltage for sure means less power. GWE Alex wrote: When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex Jerry Martes wrote: "Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
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Alex wrote:
When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Jerry Martes wrote: I have been assuming that you are curious to know if your new 1 1/2 HP motor is working properly. Now you ask if the input voltage as supplied by your house is adequet for this motor. Get a voltmeter that connects to your computer and a program to save the data from its readings. Then it is easy to record the voltage at the input to the motor as a function of time. Excel will allow you to display a graph of the line voltage as a function of time. If you get a data saving program that is fast enough, it is easy to see exactly what voltage is existant at the motor input terminals at any time. Or, you can go to a neighbor's house and try the motor there. If *I* was asked to make a guess at whats wrong with the 1 1/2 HP motor, I'd guess nothing. I wouldn't want to run a desktop PC on a supply that drops to 70V. If its normally about 115V, its dropping to about 60%. That is probably going to crash the PC. He's posting from a windows box and glitching the power like that is a good way of scrambling the hard drive. OTOH if he has a UPS or a laptop, a PC connected meter is a great idea. The other concern is, what if his excessive voltage drop is cause by a bad neutral. If that drop to 70V is appearing as a surge to 160V on the opposite phase and the PC is on that phase I'd reckon on getting some PC repair/replacement business off him if he was near me. Beware of the PC scope pods. Many of them are not capable of handling mains voltages without 100:1 probes (remember its the PEAK voltage that counts : 1.415 * Vrms) and aren't isolated. OK if the PC is a laptop sitting on a rubber mat running off its own battery with no other leads or devices connected to it apart from the scope pod, and if the operator has the skills to work with a floating scope without winning a Darwion award. If you are doing data acquisition with mains voltages, an infra-red keyboad + mouse combo is cheap insurance against getting shocked. -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must. |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:50:16 GMT, Alex wrote:
When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex Yes. Gunner Jerry Martes wrote: "Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
#23
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In article ,
Alex wrote: When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? If it's true, it's too much of a drop. But digital voltmeters aren't good with rapid change, and will lie: The 70 volt reading may mean no more than the voltmeter was fooled. Try an analog meter. Or, as was suggested elsewhere, take the motor to a new house to try. Joe Thanks, Alex Jerry Martes wrote: "Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
#24
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You tell us the voltage drops to 108VAC but you don't tell us what the
original voltage was. Also is this the only motor you have? It seems almost certain that you have a house wiring problem. Go buy a book on house wiring. Alex wrote: When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex |
#25
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Alex - if you haven't already, connect your meter to the line side of the
motor switch, not the motor side. If you see 70 volts then, more measuring is probably needed. Hul Alex wrote: When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex Jerry Martes wrote: "Alex" wrote in message . .. wrote: Alex wrote: I shouldn't be able to stall it easily. But I can. Some one suggested it might be the circuitry and wiring. I have original 1927 wiring in my house. Is it any way I can check if my wiring can handle the load? I have a multimeter. See what voltage is at motor prior and after stalling. BTW, 120 or 240 motor? Wes It's a 120/240 volt motor wired for 120v. Alex You have probably just checked your wiring. An unloaded 1 1/2 HP motor wont dim the lights in a properly wired home. Take the motor to a friend's house and test it there. Choose the friend with the newest house. Jerry |
#26
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Voltage in the line is 115V.
Dave wrote: You tell us the voltage drops to 108VAC but you don't tell us what the original voltage was. Also is this the only motor you have? It seems almost certain that you have a house wiring problem. Go buy a book on house wiring. Alex wrote: When motor starting my meter shows 70V momentarily(not sure if it's a true reading) then goes blank for a second then 108V and stays there while motor is running with no load. Is this too much of a drop? Thanks, Alex |
#27
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Alex wrote:
Voltage in the line is 115V. [...] drops to 108VAC [...] Basically the answer is that you need to have your house wiring looked at. Can't really make a solid judgement about the motor. Take the motor somewhere else and try it. House wiring is not really very complex but extremely old house wiring can be strange and can also be a fire hazard. You should become familiar with your wiring so as to make an informed decision about what needs to be done about it. At a minimum you may need a new circuit installed to your shop area. |
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