'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

Gil HASH wrote:
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

I am sure you will get plenty of responses to this frequent question,
and the usual answer is: Buy a lathe first.

A lathe is the more versatile machine.
You can do some milling on a lathe, but a mill makes a very poor lathe.

If you have a specific purpose that absolutely requires a mill, the
priority could change. For example, if your typical project requires
drilling and slotting pieces of 1/4" plate you would want the mill first.

Gil HASH wrote:

Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all
metalworking? In another terms, a milling machine is more
universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

I'm a newbie but I would say the basic question is whether you are
going to be working with cylinderical shapes or rectangular shapes. If
you plan to primarily work with rectangular shapes then you ought to
start with a mill. If cylinderical shapes then you ought to start with
a lathe. Neither a mill nor a lathe can really substitute for the other.

Gil HASH wrote:
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)


You can get milling attachments for lathes, that let you do small
milling jobs a bit more awkwardly than you could with a dedicated mill.

If you can get turning attachments for milling machines they're not very
common...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

The answer depends on what sort of things you plan to build. Most of
the electronics companies I've worked for didn't have or need a lathe.

I've found the lathe most useful for making power transmission
components such as axles, bearings, shaft couplers and adapters, etc.
However these are often easier to buy than to make, unlike structural
components.

A mill can machine framework parts and drill accurate mounting holes,
so if you plan to buy the shafts and bearings the mill is enough.

Segway has a good machine shop with CNC lathe and mill but so far I've
been able to make everything I need here with the drill press, bandsaw
and belt sander -- to 0.1mm accuracy.

Neither machine is a substitute for the other except for very simple
jobs you could do almost as well with hand tools (and practice).

There's a Smithy Granite combo lathe/mill here in the shop that no one
likes. I'm told it is a very awkward milling machine and the plastic
gears break.

Personally I could live with a mill drill and 3"-6" mini lathe for
occasional light machining. Sherlines are just too small for my home
projects (log splitter, bucket loader, sawmill, etc) but I did use an
old 6" Sears lathe to drill pivot pin grease passages for the hydraulic
bucket loader and probably could have turned and threaded the pressure
relief valve with it.

jw

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

The primary limitation of using a mill for turning (i.e., lathe work) is the
size of piece you could handle. On a small vertical mill you might be able
to handle a piece about 7" diameter and 12" long. On a small horizontal
mill you might be able to do 20" diameter x 3" long. A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.
Conversely, a similar lathe used in milling could handle about a 6" x 5"
work piece without moving the work between cuts. While turning on a mill
is doable, it is a pain to set-up .. I only do it on those rare occassions
when I have to turn something big diameter and relatively thin.
As for which to get first .. I strongly disagree with the idea of
getting a mill first if you expect to do mostly milling. The lathe is
inherently more versatile. Also, milling attachments and fixtures for
lathes abound. The reverse for mills doesn't hold. Another serious
limitation of using a mill is the difficulty of mounting the work .. indeed,
if a chuck can be mounted on the mill spindle at all. Most likely, you'd
have to machine some adapters for face plates or chucks.. for which you
would need a lathe. I've yet to find chuck commercially available adapters
for small mills -- beyond a wimpy 3 jaw chuck like you'd find on a drill
press. that is, wimpy compared to the typical chuck you find on a lathe.
By the time you've tooled up the adapters you need to mount a chuck, you've
already heavy into lathe work .. tapers, threads, boring, turning, etc.

Boris

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" earthlink.net
------------------------------------------

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH wrote:

'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?

No it cannot.

In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?

While each of the two machines can be adapted in a make-shift way to
perform some of the functions of the other, they are each designed for
different purposes and should be used appropriately if optimum results
are wanted.

For example, in my case I have a 10" lathe (capable of rotating a 10"
diameter workpiece) and a small horizontal milling machine. If I needed
to turn the outside diameter ("OD") of a workpiece that was larger than
10" I *could* mount the workpiece in place of the arbor in my milling
machine and then mount a cutting bit to the table, feeding it by moving
the table. It would work but it would not give optimal results compared
to a lathe of appropriate capacity for the job.

I could also get a milling attachment for my lathe which is mounted
to the cross-slide (usually in place of the top-slide) of the lathe
and provides a means of positioning a workpiece vertically. An end mill
is inserted in the lathe's spindle (using a collet) and the workpiece,
being clamped to the milling attachment is fed into the end mill using
the carriage, etc. feeds. This arrangement is notoriously lacking in
rigidity and severely limited in workpiece size capacity compared to
even the smallest milling machines. For very simple operations this
setup can achieve satisfactory results, but most people are disappointed
by their performance.

(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

If you study various machines you will see that they are composed
primarily of cylindrical parts. Shafts, pulleys, pins, bolts, cranks,
pistons and cylinders, etc. This is what lathes are designed to make
best, so statistically, lathes are put to use more often than other
machine tools when fabricating or repairing other machines. It depends
on what you want to make with your machine shop, but I think in general
you will find more use in a lathe than you will in a milling machine.

I know, for myself, my first machine tool purchase was a lathe, and once
I had gotten enough tooling (accessories, specialized cutters, etc.) it
kept me occupied for years before I finally bought a milling machine.
It was on the lathe that I learned about the different cutting
characteristics of different materials; speeds and feeds, tool geometry,
etc. This vital knowledge and experience was directly transferable to use
on the milling machine when I got around to buying it.

Ignoramus23461 wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH wrote:
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

You cannot do threading on a mill... Difficult to make conical things
also... (unless I am missing something)

i

You're missing quite a bit.

Threading is definitely possible on a mill, just not with a single point
tool like on a lathe. Tapping heads for mills are a common item and many
CNC mills support rigid tapping. That takes care of internal threading,
external threading is less common on a mill, but can be done to a
limited extent for smaller parts using a suitable die stock, or on a CNC
mill via thread milling.

Conical parts can be done on a mill with a tilting rotary table although
it's far from an ideal way to do it.

Generally a mill is a more versatile machine than a lathe although it
will not fully replace one. If I had to decide which to buy first I'd go
for the mill and try to add the lathe ASAP.

Pete C.

Boris Beizer wrote:

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

The primary limitation of using a mill for turning (i.e., lathe work) is the
size of piece you could handle. On a small vertical mill you might be able
to handle a piece about 7" diameter and 12" long. On a small horizontal
mill you might be able to do 20" diameter x 3" long. A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.
Conversely, a similar lathe used in milling could handle about a 6" x 5"
work piece without moving the work between cuts. While turning on a mill
is doable, it is a pain to set-up .. I only do it on those rare occassions
when I have to turn something big diameter and relatively thin.
As for which to get first .. I strongly disagree with the idea of
getting a mill first if you expect to do mostly milling. The lathe is
inherently more versatile. Also, milling attachments and fixtures for
lathes abound. The reverse for mills doesn't hold. Another serious
limitation of using a mill is the difficulty of mounting the work .. indeed,
if a chuck can be mounted on the mill spindle at all. Most likely, you'd
have to machine some adapters for face plates or chucks.. for which you
would need a lathe. I've yet to find chuck commercially available adapters
for small mills -- beyond a wimpy 3 jaw chuck like you'd find on a drill
press. that is, wimpy compared to the typical chuck you find on a lathe.
By the time you've tooled up the adapters you need to mount a chuck, you've
already heavy into lathe work .. tapers, threads, boring, turning, etc.

Boris

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" earthlink.net
------------------------------------------

I think you're approaching it all wrong.

To do limited lathe type work on a mill, you would not place a lathe
type chuck on the mills spindle to turn the work piece. What you do is
use a rotary table or dividing head to hold and turn the work piece and
use conventional milling cutters to do the work. This is why a lathe
type chuck to go in a mill spindle does not exist and numerous rotary
tables and dividing heads do exist.

Milling on a lathe is at least as awkward as lathing on a mill, and the
mill is still the more versatile machine to have. There are certainly
parts that you can make on a lathe that you can't make on a mill, and
vice versa, however for typical home shop projects the mill will be able
to accomplish more of the tasks.

Much of what you can't do on the mill is shafts and bushings that can be
readily purchased, and in fact with a boring head you can make most of
those bushings on the mill as well.

Either way, a proper shop should have both a mill and a lathe along with
the proper tooling for both, which will cost more than the base
machines. But start with the mill.

Pete C.

Artemia Salina wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH wrote:

'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?

No it cannot.

In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?

While each of the two machines can be adapted in a make-shift way to
perform some of the functions of the other, they are each designed for
different purposes and should be used appropriately if optimum results
are wanted.

For example, in my case I have a 10" lathe (capable of rotating a 10"
diameter workpiece) and a small horizontal milling machine. If I needed
to turn the outside diameter ("OD") of a workpiece that was larger than
10" I *could* mount the workpiece in place of the arbor in my milling
machine and then mount a cutting bit to the table, feeding it by moving
the table. It would work but it would not give optimal results compared
to a lathe of appropriate capacity for the job.

I could also get a milling attachment for my lathe which is mounted
to the cross-slide (usually in place of the top-slide) of the lathe
and provides a means of positioning a workpiece vertically. An end mill
is inserted in the lathe's spindle (using a collet) and the workpiece,
being clamped to the milling attachment is fed into the end mill using
the carriage, etc. feeds. This arrangement is notoriously lacking in
rigidity and severely limited in workpiece size capacity compared to
even the smallest milling machines. For very simple operations this
setup can achieve satisfactory results, but most people are disappointed
by their performance.

(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

If you study various machines you will see that they are composed
primarily of cylindrical parts. Shafts, pulleys, pins, bolts, cranks,
pistons and cylinders, etc. This is what lathes are designed to make
best, so statistically, lathes are put to use more often than other
machine tools when fabricating or repairing other machines. It depends
on what you want to make with your machine shop, but I think in general
you will find more use in a lathe than you will in a milling machine.

What holds all those cylindrical parts together? Parts that were milled
mostly, and while you can inexpensively purchase shafts, pulleys, pins
and bolts off the shelf, you can not purchase the pieces to hold it all
together.

How often do you make your own bolts anyway vs. purchase quality bolts
like perhaps grade 8 which would be difficult to produce yourself?


I know, for myself, my first machine tool purchase was a lathe, and once
I had gotten enough tooling (accessories, specialized cutters, etc.) it
kept me occupied for years before I finally bought a milling machine.
It was on the lathe that I learned about the different cutting
characteristics of different materials; speeds and feeds, tool geometry,
etc. This vital knowledge and experience was directly transferable to use
on the milling machine when I got around to buying it.

I have both a lathe and a mill, and the mill gets more use by a 5:1
factor or better.

Pete C.

"Boris Beizer" wrote in message
k.net...
snip---

A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.

Not really. While the lathe may have a 9" swing, it can't swing that
diameter over the cross slide. I'd suggest you would be restricted to
about 4" diameter instead.

Harold

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)



Just an observation.

With a mill you can make a lathe. A lathe cannot make a mill.

Which is more versatile???? I don't know.

--

Clif Holland KA5IPF

Pete C. wrote:
Boris Beizer wrote:

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
.. .

'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

The primary limitation of using a mill for turning (i.e., lathe work) is the
size of piece you could handle. On a small vertical mill you might be able
to handle a piece about 7" diameter and 12" long. On a small horizontal
mill you might be able to do 20" diameter x 3" long. A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.
Conversely, a similar lathe used in milling could handle about a 6" x 5"
work piece without moving the work between cuts. While turning on a mill
is doable, it is a pain to set-up .. I only do it on those rare occassions
when I have to turn something big diameter and relatively thin.
As for which to get first .. I strongly disagree with the idea of
getting a mill first if you expect to do mostly milling. The lathe is
inherently more versatile. Also, milling attachments and fixtures for
lathes abound. The reverse for mills doesn't hold. Another serious
limitation of using a mill is the difficulty of mounting the work .. indeed,
if a chuck can be mounted on the mill spindle at all. Most likely, you'd
have to machine some adapters for face plates or chucks.. for which you
would need a lathe. I've yet to find chuck commercially available adapters
for small mills -- beyond a wimpy 3 jaw chuck like you'd find on a drill
press. that is, wimpy compared to the typical chuck you find on a lathe.
By the time you've tooled up the adapters you need to mount a chuck, you've
already heavy into lathe work .. tapers, threads, boring, turning, etc.

Boris

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" earthlink.net
------------------------------------------


I think you're approaching it all wrong.

To do limited lathe type work on a mill, you would not place a lathe
type chuck on the mills spindle to turn the work piece. What you do is
use a rotary table or dividing head to hold and turn the work piece and
use conventional milling cutters to do the work. This is why a lathe
type chuck to go in a mill spindle does not exist and numerous rotary
tables and dividing heads do exist.

Although I have done just that on a cnc mill, with great success, but on
a manual mill you are correct, it is silly




Milling on a lathe is at least as awkward as lathing on a mill, and the
mill is still the more versatile machine to have. There are certainly
parts that you can make on a lathe that you can't make on a mill, and
vice versa, however for typical home shop projects the mill will be able
to accomplish more of the tasks.

Much of what you can't do on the mill is shafts and bushings that can be
readily purchased, and in fact with a boring head you can make most of
those bushings on the mill as well.

Either way, a proper shop should have both a mill and a lathe along with
the proper tooling for both, which will cost more than the base
machines. But start with the mill.

Pete C.


I bought a lathe first, and while your argument is persuasive, I think
that most 'hobbyist' mill operations can be done to some extent with a
angle grinder or a file, the same is not true for turning operations.
The stuff even an amateur needs [boring a bushing] is more easily done
correctly, with less tooling cost, on a lathe.

In the end I say : Neither

Buy one of those old Bridgeport BOSS stepper machines and put a pc
control on it

yourname wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Boris Beizer wrote:

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
.. .

'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

The primary limitation of using a mill for turning (i.e., lathe work) is the
size of piece you could handle. On a small vertical mill you might be able
to handle a piece about 7" diameter and 12" long. On a small horizontal
mill you might be able to do 20" diameter x 3" long. A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.
Conversely, a similar lathe used in milling could handle about a 6" x 5"
work piece without moving the work between cuts. While turning on a mill
is doable, it is a pain to set-up .. I only do it on those rare occassions
when I have to turn something big diameter and relatively thin.
As for which to get first .. I strongly disagree with the idea of
getting a mill first if you expect to do mostly milling. The lathe is
inherently more versatile. Also, milling attachments and fixtures for
lathes abound. The reverse for mills doesn't hold. Another serious
limitation of using a mill is the difficulty of mounting the work .. indeed,
if a chuck can be mounted on the mill spindle at all. Most likely, you'd
have to machine some adapters for face plates or chucks.. for which you
would need a lathe. I've yet to find chuck commercially available adapters
for small mills -- beyond a wimpy 3 jaw chuck like you'd find on a drill
press. that is, wimpy compared to the typical chuck you find on a lathe.
By the time you've tooled up the adapters you need to mount a chuck, you've
already heavy into lathe work .. tapers, threads, boring, turning, etc.

Boris

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" earthlink.net
------------------------------------------


I think you're approaching it all wrong.

To do limited lathe type work on a mill, you would not place a lathe
type chuck on the mills spindle to turn the work piece. What you do is
use a rotary table or dividing head to hold and turn the work piece and
use conventional milling cutters to do the work. This is why a lathe
type chuck to go in a mill spindle does not exist and numerous rotary
tables and dividing heads do exist.

Although I have done just that on a cnc mill, with great success, but on
a manual mill you are correct, it is silly

I've used my Bridgeport and a rotary table to "turn" the outside of a
30" diameter x 1/2" think piece. Also drilled a bolt circle and a few
other features. I rough cut the piece to about 31" dia with a jig saw
first.



Milling on a lathe is at least as awkward as lathing on a mill, and the
mill is still the more versatile machine to have. There are certainly
parts that you can make on a lathe that you can't make on a mill, and
vice versa, however for typical home shop projects the mill will be able
to accomplish more of the tasks.

Much of what you can't do on the mill is shafts and bushings that can be
readily purchased, and in fact with a boring head you can make most of
those bushings on the mill as well.

Either way, a proper shop should have both a mill and a lathe along with
the proper tooling for both, which will cost more than the base
machines. But start with the mill.

Pete C.

I bought a lathe first, and while your argument is persuasive, I think
that most 'hobbyist' mill operations can be done to some extent with a
angle grinder or a file, the same is not true for turning operations.

Never chucked a shaft in your electric drill and gone at it with a file?
Sucks, but is comparable to milling with a grinder and file.

The stuff even an amateur needs [boring a bushing] is more easily done
correctly, with less tooling cost, on a lathe.

Boring head and a pair of disposable soft jaws for the milling vice.
close the vice and drill/bore the jaws to fit the bushing OD and then
use the vice to hold the bushing while you bore the ID. Not ideal
certainly, but quick and workable.


In the end I say : Neither

Buy one of those old Bridgeport BOSS stepper machines and put a pc
control on it

If you can find one. I keep hearing how they're everywhere and cheap,
but I haven't seen one cheap. If you know of one let me know since I'd
like to buy one. I have a 1J right now.

Pete C.

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Boris Beizer" wrote in message
k.net...
snip---

A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.

Not really. While the lathe may have a 9" swing, it can't swing that
diameter over the cross slide. I'd suggest you would be restricted to
about 4" diameter instead.

Oops!
Boris (Red-in-the-face) Beizer

In article , Gil HASH says...

(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

What is your first project? That will tell you which one to
purchase.

Lathes make round parts using square tools.

Milling machines make square parts using round tools.

What do you want to build?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

P


If you can find one. I keep hearing how they're everywhere and cheap,
but I haven't seen one cheap. If you know of one let me know since I'd
like to buy one. I have a 1J right now.

Pete C.

ebay

do look around, some might want real money, but they is goofy.

Keep in mind this is a new guy. I doubt he is looking at buying
a CNC mill or tons of tooling to make a mill do the work of a lathe.


Threading is definitely possible on a mill, just not with a single point
tool like on a lathe. Tapping heads for mills are a common item and many
CNC mills support rigid tapping. That takes care of internal threading,
external threading is less common on a mill, but can be done to a
limited extent for smaller parts using a suitable die stock, or on a CNC
mill via thread milling.

Conical parts can be done on a mill with a tilting rotary table although
it's far from an ideal way to do it.

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

Keep in mind this is a new guy. I doubt he is looking at buying
a CNC mill or tons of tooling to make a mill do the work of a lathe.

Threading is definitely possible on a mill, just not with a single point
tool like on a lathe. Tapping heads for mills are a common item and many
CNC mills support rigid tapping. That takes care of internal threading,
external threading is less common on a mill, but can be done to a
limited extent for smaller parts using a suitable die stock, or on a CNC
mill via thread milling.

Conical parts can be done on a mill with a tilting rotary table although
it's far from an ideal way to do it.

Well, it doesn't matter whether he buys a mill or a lathe first, he's
still going to end up buying a ton of tooling - it's unavoidable. The
tooling usually costs you more than the base machines.

Pete C.

"Ignoramus23461" wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH
wrote:
| 'lo
| Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
| Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
| In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or
not?
| (It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)
|
| You cannot do threading on a mill... Difficult to make conical things
| also... (unless I am missing something)
|
| i

Certainly can be done. There's tooling to connect the quill to the tap
just for that purpose. You can thread larger pieces of flat stock on a mill
most accurately, but long parts threaded in the end are lathe items for
sure.

"Boris Beizer" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Boris Beizer" wrote in message
k.net...
snip---

A typical home shop
lathe (e.g., a 9" South Bend) can handle 9" diameter by 30" long.

Not really. While the lathe may have a 9" swing, it can't swing that
diameter over the cross slide. I'd suggest you would be restricted to
about 4" diameter instead.

Oops!
Boris (Red-in-the-face) Beizer


Chuckle! It'll be my turn tomorrow, Boris.

Harold

In article et,
carl mciver wrote:
"Ignoramus23461" wrote in message
.. .
| On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH
wrote:
| 'lo
| Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
| Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
| In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or
not?
| (It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)
|
| You cannot do threading on a mill... Difficult to make conical things
| also... (unless I am missing something)
|
| i

Certainly can be done. There's tooling to connect the quill to the tap
just for that purpose. You can thread larger pieces of flat stock on a mill
most accurately, but long parts threaded in the end are lathe items for
sure.

Or -- threading a shaft between two larger diameter collars, for
that matter.

There are ways around everything, with fancy enough machines and
lots of imagination (and lots of money spent on special-purpose
tooling.

But -- I would get a lathe before a mill. (Except that I got
both at the same time many years ago -- the Unimat SL-1000, which was
not very good at either task, but better as a lathe than as a milling
machine.

Enjoy,
DoN.
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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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"Pete C." wrote in message
...
snip-

I have both a lathe and a mill, and the mill gets more use by a 5:1
factor or better.

Pete C.

While it's true that I often bid on, and ran, lathe work, my lathe sat idle
roughly 75% of the time when I was actively machining. A great deal of my
work was jig and fixture (tool making) work, the vast majority of which was
mill work. Still, when starting out, a lathe seems so much more natural,
and is an easier way to begin machining, considering you have only two
dimensions over which to worry. Further, it's a lot cheaper to grind
cutting tools for a lathe than to purchase typical milling cutters, most of
which can not be hand sharpened.

I'd suggest that anyone starting out in machining do so on a lathe, if for
no other reason, to help get an understanding of machining concepts, and to
make mistakes that are (hopefully) less expensive. The ultimate goal
would be to own both machines.

Harold
Harold

In article , Pete C. wrote:
Artemia Salina wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH wrote:

[ ... ]

If you study various machines you will see that they are composed
primarily of cylindrical parts. Shafts, pulleys, pins, bolts, cranks,
pistons and cylinders, etc. This is what lathes are designed to make
best, so statistically, lathes are put to use more often than other
machine tools when fabricating or repairing other machines. It depends
on what you want to make with your machine shop, but I think in general
you will find more use in a lathe than you will in a milling machine.

What holds all those cylindrical parts together? Parts that were milled
mostly, and while you can inexpensively purchase shafts, pulleys, pins
and bolts off the shelf, you can not purchase the pieces to hold it all
together.

How often do you make your own bolts anyway vs. purchase quality bolts
like perhaps grade 8 which would be difficult to produce yourself?

Well ... I have made special purpose bolts of various sorts
which I either could not purchase, or could not get affordably in the
quantities in which I needed them.

And I've even made special purpose bolts for my Clausing lathe.
The taper attachment came from eBay, and was not complete. I needed
special bolts with specific lengths and with square heads to match those
on the rest of the lathe and those still present on the taper
attachment, just so one wrench would do for all of those.

Granted, I used a small milling machine and an index head to
produce the square heads. For hex heads, I often just start with hex
stock fed through the spindle of the lathe. I turn off what is needed
to make the shank, thread it, and then part off to form the head.

(And I often use the Geometric die heads in a bed turret in the
lathe for the threading in this sort of operation.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article IasKe.5239$0d.488@trnddc03, Clif Holland wrote:

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)



Just an observation.

With a mill you can make a lathe. A lathe cannot make a mill.

This is the reverse of the common wisdom. "The lathe is the
only tool which can build itself." (In reality, a larger lathe can make
a smaller one.) This can even include a lathe boring and facing holes
in castings which are bolted to a faceplate. Or even line boring, with
the workpiece on the cross-slide, and a long boring bar mounted between
centers on the lathe.

And I would love to see a milling machine making the spindle for
my lathe. The length to width ratio is such that it would need to be
supported at both ends. That is easy to do on a lathe, but not so on a
milling machine -- except perhaps with the overarm of a horizontal
milling machine, intended to support the far end of the arbor.

Granted, things like the gears are best done by a mix of
machines. Blanks turned to size on the lathe, and then the gear teeth
cut on a horizontal spindle mill with an index head -- or in commercial
quantities, cut on a gear hobbing machine, which is neither a mill nor a
lathe.

Which is more versatile???? I don't know.

I feel that it is easier to do some limited milling on a lathe
(with the proper accessories) than to do most lathe work on a milling
machine (unless you have a *big* CNC milling machine with fancy software
for things like thread milling and such -- an even that would have
difficulty making a long cylindrical part like either the spindle of the
lathe, or the leadscrews.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:26:42 +0000, Pete C. wrote:


What holds all those cylindrical parts together? Parts that were milled
mostly, and while you can inexpensively purchase shafts, pulleys, pins
and bolts off the shelf, you can not purchase the pieces to hold it all
together.

How often do you make your own bolts anyway vs. purchase quality bolts
like perhaps grade 8 which would be difficult to produce yourself?

I had to make a gib screw for my lathe. It was basically a 1/4-20 SHCS
with a very large head (I think it was 1/2" OD by 1/2" long).

How would you make that on a milling machine (and you can't use
attachments, or else I can use a milling attachment on a lathe to
make the framework for my hypothetical machine)?

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:29:19 -0700, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Still, when starting out, a lathe seems so much more natural,
and is an easier way to begin machining, considering you have only two
dimensions over which to worry. Further, it's a lot cheaper to grind
cutting tools for a lathe than to purchase typical milling cutters, most of
which can not be hand sharpened.

And you also learn a lot about cutter geometry when grinding your own
single point tools. Doesn't take fancy equipment to make a fine tool
bit from a blank, but one can't even properly sharpen a milling cutter
without specialized equipment.

I guess it really depends on what one's objective is. I presume that
others are like myself, and like to learn things from the bottom up.
That's not to say that I'm not ambitious about the things that I
want to do, but I've "over-bought" in the past and then realized
that I didn't have the skills needed to put the purchased item
to good use. I think I was smart when I bought a lathe as my first
legitimate machine tool as it gave me more opportunity to learn the
rudiments of machining. Its a deep subject and its easy to get in
over your head when you're new at it.

"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news snip----

I had to make a gib screw for my lathe. It was basically a 1/4-20 SHCS
with a very large head (I think it was 1/2" OD by 1/2" long).

How would you make that on a milling machine (and you can't use
attachments, or else I can use a milling attachment on a lathe to
make the framework for my hypothetical machine)?

It can be done using a boring head to make the turns, and a die for the
thread. No special tools in this case, and no big deal, really, but I
agree with you------there's no substitute for the proper machine for the
job.

The best training that a machinist can receive is to work in a job shop that
is fairly well equipped, and accepts *good* work, something like from the
aero-space industry, where slop work isn't acceptable. Given the proper
attitude, a machinist comes away from such work with exceptional setup and
manufacturing skills. I can say with total honesty that the 18 months I
spent in just such a shop taught me more than my apprenticeship did. You
get very good at doing the job with the equipment at hand.

Harold

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article IasKe.5239$0d.488@trnddc03, Clif Holland
wrote:

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all
metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or
not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)



Just an observation.

With a mill you can make a lathe. A lathe cannot make a mill.

This is the reverse of the common wisdom. "The lathe is the
only tool which can build itself." (In reality, a larger lathe can make
a smaller one.) This can even include a lathe boring and facing holes
in castings which are bolted to a faceplate. Or even line boring, with
the workpiece on the cross-slide, and a long boring bar mounted between
centers on the lathe.

And I would love to see a milling machine making the spindle for
my lathe. The length to width ratio is such that it would need to be
supported at both ends. That is easy to do on a lathe, but not so on a
milling machine -- except perhaps with the overarm of a horizontal
milling machine, intended to support the far end of the arbor.

Granted, things like the gears are best done by a mix of
machines. Blanks turned to size on the lathe, and then the gear teeth
cut on a horizontal spindle mill with an index head -- or in commercial
quantities, cut on a gear hobbing machine, which is neither a mill nor a
lathe.

Which is more versatile???? I don't know.

I feel that it is easier to do some limited milling on a lathe
(with the proper accessories) than to do most lathe work on a milling
machine (unless you have a *big* CNC milling machine with fancy software
for things like thread milling and such -- an even that would have
difficulty making a long cylindrical part like either the spindle of the
lathe, or the leadscrews.

Enjoy,
DoN.

When it goes full circle, it's quite apparent why there is a wide variety of
machine tools, eh?

Harold

Thanks all
With all posts my choice gets more and more difficult but it's very very
interesting ;-)

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:28:42 GMT, Ignoramus23461
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:15 +0400, Gil HASH wrote:
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

You cannot do threading on a mill... Difficult to make conical things
also... (unless I am missing something)

i
Ah...yes you can.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:26:42 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

etc. This vital knowledge and experience was directly transferable to use
on the milling machine when I got around to buying it.

I have both a lathe and a mill, and the mill gets more use by a 5:1
factor or better.

Pete C.


And my lathes get more use then any of the mills I have.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 02:15:31 -0400, Artemia Salina
wrote:


I had to make a gib screw for my lathe. It was basically a 1/4-20 SHCS
with a very large head (I think it was 1/2" OD by 1/2" long).

How would you make that on a milling machine (and you can't use
attachments, or else I can use a milling attachment on a lathe to
make the framework for my hypothetical machine)?

helical interpolation
http://www.sct-usa.com/millhelp.asp
Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:25:33 +0400, "Gil HASH"
wrote:

Thanks all
With all posts my choice gets more and more difficult but it's very very
interesting ;-)

Get the lathe. Learn to use it. Then get a mill. Tools are good.


Now the big question..is whether you should get a horizontal or
vertical mill.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

Gunner wrote:

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:25:33 +0400, "Gil HASH"
wrote:

Thanks all
With all posts my choice gets more and more difficult but it's very very
interesting ;-)

Get the lathe. Learn to use it. Then get a mill. Tools are good.

Now the big question..is whether you should get a horizontal or
vertical mill.

No question - get a H/V if you can find one. If you can't find a H/V
probably go for a V first since it's a bit more intuitive and I think
tool changes are faster. Still look for a H and dividing head after for
cutting gears and similar.

Pete C.

I would consider a 3 in 1 machine- look at www.shoptask.com
You will get a lot of negatives on this board about combo machines in
general, but mostly from people who have never had one or bought one of
those 695.00 cheapies.

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
'lo
Xcuze me for the newbie's strange question of the day :
Can a lathe be replaced by a milling machine for quite all metalworking?
In another terms, a milling machine is more universal than a lathe or not?
(It's for me : buying first lathe or milling machine?)

Gil HASH wrote:
Thanks all
With all posts my choice gets more and more difficult but it's very very
interesting ;-)


There are some lathes that have pretty good milling attachments for
them, especially smaller ones. I have a Sherline lathe, the milling
attachment works great. Only does small stuff, but it is great for that.

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Thanks all
With all posts my choice gets more and more difficult but it's very very
interesting ;-)

Here's something that hasn't been mentioned before .. or maybe I missed it.
For a newbie, I think that the learning progression is very important. I
learned to use a lathe before a mill, and I'm glad I did it in that order.
The lathe is a lot easier to learn than the mill. In lathe work, it is easy
to tell when the tool is dull and perhaps more important, easy to sharpen
yourself. You can't sharpen end mills yourself or even worse, horizontal
mill cutters .. unless you are very experienced and/or have some quite fancy
tool grinding equipment. The cost of learning, in broken and ruined
tooling is significant. Making mistakes with speed, feed, and tool geometry
on a single-point lathe tool is far more forgiving and far less expensive.
The issues of cutting speed, feed, and depth of cut for lathe work is very
intuitive. Usually, when in trouble (chatter, rough finish, etc.) backing
off (e.g, lighter cut) solves the problem. In milling, that may be the
worst thing to do. I've learned (the hard way) that these issues in milling
are often quite counter-intuitive. In lathe work, the direction of the
work is fixed... and you can feed toward the headstock (usual) or toward the
tailstock .. but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference which if you use
a live tailstock center. In milling, the direction of the feed relative to
the rotation is very important and can make a big difference in the result.
Then there are ll the issues of work holding, which are much more complex in
milling. All in all, I'd say that milling is at least five times trickier
than lathe work...and ten times more expensive in broken and ruined tools
during the learning phase.

Boris

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" earthlink.net

------------------------------------------

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:25:33 +0400, "Gil HASH"
wrote:

Thanks all
With all posts my choice gets more and more difficult but it's very very
interesting ;-)

Get the lathe. Learn to use it. Then get a mill. Tools are good.


Now the big question..is whether you should get a horizontal or
vertical mill.

You like to mix up the controversy, don't you!!! Talk about trouble
makers!!!

Boris

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" earthlink.net

------------------------------------------

In article , Gunner says...

Now the big question..is whether you should get a horizontal or
vertical mill.

No, that's not the big question. The first big question is 'how
many lathes' but once that's resolved then 'how many milling
machines' comes up quite often....

Jim


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