How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1" square
rod 6" long ...........

leave the ends like they are one inch on each end ...............

turn down the middle to 7/8" diameter ...........

put lengthwise flutes in it ............

So it looked like an antique wood column when done?

Make 50 of them?

Can be hot rolled steel, can even be scrap, just has to look nice when
finished. Will be painted.

I am interested in having some of these made, and other shapes that look
like old columns, but with a little more designs. On some, the round shaft
can be smooth, and there would be a raised ring between the end square and
the round shaft. Just like an old wood column. That would probably be a
lot easier and cheaper to do than cutting the flutes, right?

Will consider any and all ideas.

Answer here or e mail me.

Steve

Steve,

Turning a 4" long diameter in a 6" long square bar isn't that big of a deal.
All you need is a lathe with a 5C collet closer, a 1" square collet (I think
this as big as a 5C goes), and a tail stock with a live center. Knocking the
corners off will be slow, and pretty rough on tools

Cutting fancy features lengthwise in the round portion can get complicated.
If the features are 90 or 180 degrees apart you can use the remaining square
ends as references. Any more than that and your looking at a 4th axis set
up. Maybe even 4 axis surfacing.

Hard to give you an idea of the cost without seeing it. One thing's for
sure, the material cost will be insignificant compared to the labor.

Regards

Mark


"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square
rod 6" long ...........

leave the ends like they are one inch on each end ...............

turn down the middle to 7/8" diameter ...........

put lengthwise flutes in it ............

So it looked like an antique wood column when done?

Make 50 of them?

Can be hot rolled steel, can even be scrap, just has to look nice when
finished. Will be painted.

I am interested in having some of these made, and other shapes that look
like old columns, but with a little more designs. On some, the round
shaft
can be smooth, and there would be a raised ring between the end square and
the round shaft. Just like an old wood column. That would probably be a
lot easier and cheaper to do than cutting the flutes, right?

Will consider any and all ideas.

Answer here or e mail me.

Steve

"Mark Mossberg" wrote in message
...
Steve,

Turning a 4" long diameter in a 6" long square bar isn't that big of a
deal.
All you need is a lathe with a 5C collet closer, a 1" square collet (I
think
this as big as a 5C goes),


Wrong! 5C collets are available in (round) sizes up to 1-1/8", but there's
no chance in hell you can buy one large enough to hold 1" square material.
The material exceeds collet size across the corners. You could buy a step
chuck (2" diameter or larger) and mill the configuration with some care,
however.

Cutting fancy features lengthwise in the round portion can get
complicated.
If the features are 90 or 180 degrees apart you can use the remaining
square
ends as references. Any more than that and your looking at a 4th axis set
up. Maybe even 4 axis surfacing.

Not true. If the parts are machined by holding with a step chuck, an
indexing head and tailstock center would be adequate for holding and
indexing for flutes. One could machine them easily @ 30 degree or 45
degree intervals, using a small (radiused) side cutter, either on a
horizontal or a vertical mill. The biggest problem here would be using a
small enough cutter so it didn't interfere with the square portion. A
Woodruff cutter might be a solution. This would be an excellent operation
for a hand mill, a Nichols, for example.


Hard to give you an idea of the cost without seeing it. One thing's for
sure, the material cost will be insignificant compared to the labor.

Regards

Mark

Absolutely. This would be a relatively labor intensive part to make, even
without difficult tolerances, which are not a concern from all indications.
At today's shop prices, I wouldn't be surprised to see a part of this nature
go for $45 each.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Mark Mossberg" wrote in message
...
Steve,

Turning a 4" long diameter in a 6" long square bar isn't that big of a
deal.
All you need is a lathe with a 5C collet closer, a 1" square collet (I
think
this as big as a 5C goes),


Wrong! 5C collets are available in (round) sizes up to 1-1/8", but
there's
no chance in hell you can buy one large enough to hold 1" square material.
The material exceeds collet size across the corners. You could buy a step
chuck (2" diameter or larger) and mill the configuration with some care,
however.

Cutting fancy features lengthwise in the round portion can get
complicated.
If the features are 90 or 180 degrees apart you can use the remaining
square
ends as references. Any more than that and your looking at a 4th axis
set
up. Maybe even 4 axis surfacing.

Not true. If the parts are machined by holding with a step chuck, an
indexing head and tailstock center would be adequate for holding and
indexing for flutes. One could machine them easily @ 30 degree or 45
degree intervals, using a small (radiused) side cutter, either on a
horizontal or a vertical mill. The biggest problem here would be using
a
small enough cutter so it didn't interfere with the square portion. A
Woodruff cutter might be a solution. This would be an excellent
operation
for a hand mill, a Nichols, for example.


Hard to give you an idea of the cost without seeing it. One thing's for
sure, the material cost will be insignificant compared to the labor.

Regards

Mark

Absolutely. This would be a relatively labor intensive part to make, even
without difficult tolerances, which are not a concern from all
indications.
At today's shop prices, I wouldn't be surprised to see a part of this
nature
go for $45 each.


Which is exactly the reason why he shouldnt even be considering any 'garage
shops' at all.......

Sheesh...that's a three minute job ( tops ) given any fairly large quantity
and contracting most any shop that has a fairly modern cnc lathe with a
barfeed.

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Mark Mossberg" wrote in message
...
Steve,

Turning a 4" long diameter in a 6" long square bar isn't that big of a
deal.
All you need is a lathe with a 5C collet closer, a 1" square collet (I
think
this as big as a 5C goes),


Wrong! 5C collets are available in (round) sizes up to 1-1/8", but
there's
no chance in hell you can buy one large enough to hold 1" square
material.
The material exceeds collet size across the corners. You could buy a
step
chuck (2" diameter or larger) and mill the configuration with some care,
however.

Cutting fancy features lengthwise in the round portion can get
complicated.
If the features are 90 or 180 degrees apart you can use the remaining
square
ends as references. Any more than that and your looking at a 4th axis
set
up. Maybe even 4 axis surfacing.

Not true. If the parts are machined by holding with a step chuck, an
indexing head and tailstock center would be adequate for holding and
indexing for flutes. One could machine them easily @ 30 degree or 45
degree intervals, using a small (radiused) side cutter, either on a
horizontal or a vertical mill. The biggest problem here would be
using
a
small enough cutter so it didn't interfere with the square portion. A
Woodruff cutter might be a solution. This would be an excellent
operation
for a hand mill, a Nichols, for example.


Hard to give you an idea of the cost without seeing it. One thing's
for
sure, the material cost will be insignificant compared to the labor.

Regards

Mark

Absolutely. This would be a relatively labor intensive part to make,
even
without difficult tolerances, which are not a concern from all
indications.
At today's shop prices, I wouldn't be surprised to see a part of this
nature
go for $45 each.


Which is exactly the reason why he shouldnt even be considering any
'garage
shops' at all.......

Sheesh...that's a three minute job ( tops ) given any fairly large
quantity
and contracting most any shop that has a fairly modern cnc lathe with a
barfeed.


OOPs...sans the flutes, of course...

g

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-----


OOPs...sans the flutes, of course...

g

--

SVL


I thought that was some pretty cheap machining! g

Harold

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:46:12 GMT, "Mark Mossberg"
wrote:

Steve,

Turning a 4" long diameter in a 6" long square bar isn't that big of a deal.
All you need is a lathe with a 5C collet closer, a 1" square collet (I think
this as big as a 5C goes), and a tail stock with a live center. Knocking the
corners off will be slow, and pretty rough on tools

Cutting fancy features lengthwise in the round portion can get complicated.
If the features are 90 or 180 degrees apart you can use the remaining square
ends as references. Any more than that and your looking at a 4th axis set
up. Maybe even 4 axis surfacing.

Hard to give you an idea of the cost without seeing it. One thing's for
sure, the material cost will be insignificant compared to the labor.

Regards

Mark

Two machines..lathe and miller with indexing head.

Gunner



"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square
rod 6" long ...........

leave the ends like they are one inch on each end ...............

turn down the middle to 7/8" diameter ...........

put lengthwise flutes in it ............

So it looked like an antique wood column when done?

Make 50 of them?

Can be hot rolled steel, can even be scrap, just has to look nice when
finished. Will be painted.

I am interested in having some of these made, and other shapes that look
like old columns, but with a little more designs. On some, the round
shaft
can be smooth, and there would be a raised ring between the end square and
the round shaft. Just like an old wood column. That would probably be a
lot easier and cheaper to do than cutting the flutes, right?

Will consider any and all ideas.

Answer here or e mail me.

Steve





"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

You may want to consider having the fluted section done seperately or buy
some stock that looks like it and then have someone weld the square sections
onto the end. It'll cost less.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
http://www.AutoDrill.com
http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

I don't know how much it cost, but if you don't make a drawing of what you want,
then I for one wouldn't bid on it.

Might be more cost-effective to have them cast.

GWE

SteveB wrote:

How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1" square
rod 6" long ...........

leave the ends like they are one inch on each end ...............

turn down the middle to 7/8" diameter ...........

put lengthwise flutes in it ............

So it looked like an antique wood column when done?

Make 50 of them?

Can be hot rolled steel, can even be scrap, just has to look nice when
finished. Will be painted.

I am interested in having some of these made, and other shapes that look
like old columns, but with a little more designs. On some, the round shaft
can be smooth, and there would be a raised ring between the end square and
the round shaft. Just like an old wood column. That would probably be a
lot easier and cheaper to do than cutting the flutes, right?

Will consider any and all ideas.

Answer here or e mail me.

Steve

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in news:42e740bd_3
@newspeer2.tds.net:


I thought that was some pretty cheap machining! g


It would be on a live tool, Y axis equipped lathe, or someone with an
Integrex. Probably a 8 minute job or less including the flutes.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

http://www.machines-cnc.net:81/

Wrong! 5C collets are available in (round) sizes up to 1-1/8", but there's
no chance in hell you can buy one large enough to hold 1" square material.
The material exceeds collet size across the corners. You could buy a step
chuck (2" diameter or larger) and mill the configuration with some care,
however.

I have a bison 4 jaw scroll chuck that I bought just for square stock.
Works well.

"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square rod 6" long ...........


snip

I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even guess
at a price.

All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed a
drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job. Another suggested a CNC shop. Very plausible, but no
guess. Another said $45. Warmer. I know for $45 per, this project will
not be practical.

Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

Thanks.

You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Steve

Your simple description left a lot out to give a real quote. You won't
find many(any?) shops that will quote you something without some sort
of drawing.

How many flutes? what size? full length?

If $45 per is too much for you, I suspect this project is doomed. Any
shop that can crank them out fast enough(ie CNC) to make them cheaper
is going to have expensive equipment to amortize. Anyone who is doing
it by other means(lathe, shaper, mill) is going to have substantial
labor time to bill you for.

JW

Steve. The reason for drawings from a customer is insurance that the
final result will be just what he wants. Descriptions just don't cut it
in the real world. As soon as a product is made to someone's
description, the customer will tell you, "well, what I really meant
was.... and I won't pay until it is just what I want, not what I
describe.

Probably not in your case, but in many cases when a customer is forced
to put his request in a drawing, he will revise the specifications
several times before h is through. Better to do it in a drawing than to
do it in metal.

Paul

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square rod 6" long ...........


snip

I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even guess
at a price.

The reason that we amateur machinists ARE amateur machinists is to avoid
the delays and expense associated with having things made for us. Notice
that this implies that we do not go to machine shops to have things made,
and therefor would have no reason to know what the going rate for machine
work is.

How would I know what it would cost to have someone make the widgets I want?
I make them myself!

All I want to know is if it will be plausible.

If WHAT will be plausible?

One fellow said he needed a
drawing. For what?

The devil is in the details. What might seem like an inconsequential
detail to you could be a major complication to the implementation.
For example, you say you want flutes in the pieces, but you don't
say how many you want. The equipment needed for the task depends
on how many flutes (divisions of 360 degrees) there will be and
where they will be located relative to the square section. Many
"garage machinists" will not have a dividing head for their miller
and may therefor not be able to give what you want at all. Of course,
they won't even be able to SAY if they can do the job without A DRAWING.

If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job.

It's not the description he's having trouble reading. It's your MIND
that he can't read.

Can anyone give a straight answer?

I doubt it, without a straight question.

I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

$75 dollars each. That's my guess. Good enough?

In article zGMFe.50686$4o.49024@fed1read06, SteveB says...

All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed a
drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job.

That's too bad. Because grant asked for a drawing, he would have
been the most likely one to give a decent quote.

Unless you provide a drawing, with dimensions (*toleranced* dimensions)
you have ZERO chance of getting what you want.

ZERO.

ABSOLUTELY ZERO.

You will not be happy with what you receive unless you tell
the person making it what you want made. The way that is done
in this business is not with a phone call, not with an e-mail,
not with verbal description.

It's done with a print, with dimensions and tolerances. This
does not have to be a CAD drawing, it doesn't even have to be
done on a drafting board with a t-square. But it has to adhere
to the conventions for views, dimensions, and tolerances.

Unless you can render your idea into a drawing like that, NOBODY
can make it. Except maybe you. But as a reference point, whenever
I go into my own shop to whack together a motorcycle part, on my
own lathe, as a one-off that never has to be duplicated ever,
the first thing I do is:

MAKE A DRAWING. WITH DIMENSIONS.

Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

You may not realize it, but you *are* getting the straight answer. I
propose that you bring the task to a local job shop and pitch it to them.
See what they say.

It's gonna be 100 bucks an hour to design and draw it. Depending on how
rapidly you change the concept during the design phase, this will be
between one and ten hours.

Then they're probably gonna charge you between 60 and 100 bucks per
hour to *make* them. If you don't care to change the design to make
the manufacture easier, this can run up fast. You *should* care how
they're made, and what machines are used. That determines how much
they cost.

You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Elaborate on "target" concept....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:


I am disappointed in you all.

I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?

In article .com,
says...

Probably not in your case, but in many cases when a customer is forced
to put his request in a drawing, he will revise the specifications
several times before h is through. Better to do it in a drawing than to
do it in metal.

Hence the frequent, plaintive cry "Oh NO, you made it just
like the *print*!!" often heard in research shops....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:


I am disappointed in you all.

I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?


I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1 and
$1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.

For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would charge
from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and special
considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item, and
after that, it depends on your design.

Steve

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square rod 6" long ...........


snip

I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even guess
at a price.

All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed a
drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job. Another suggested a CNC shop. Very plausible, but no
guess. Another said $45. Warmer. I know for $45 per, this project will
not be practical.

Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

Thanks.

You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Steve


Steve, without a print, dimensions, tolerence and so forth, no one in
their right mind would give you a quote, if they do this for a living.

If you want to fax me a print(s), Ill have a couple of my job shops
give you quotes.

Its not just the description Steve..but the liability. I could have PT
Engineering turn out these for you at $xx each, and if you refused
them, we both (Nyguen and I) would be stuck eating the materials, and
the machine time.

Now if you wanted a BUNCH of them..I can also give you a quote on
having them die cast., either complete units, or modular so you can
mix and match features. Mold cost will be steep, parts will be very
cheap. The first one will cost you about $10,000. The rest of them a
couple bucks each at most.

Based on your rather nebulous description, they could be done for much
less than $45 each,..much less..but material cost alone can run a big
gammit, depending on what you actually want them made off. Aluminum?
Hrs? Crs?

Aluminum can be run balls to the wall, lots of parts per hour.
Steel...way slower...more hours, higher cost. Do they need to be
deburred? What surface finish? Deburring costs are expensive if you
want detail hand work, or simply stuck in a vibratory deburrer?

Im serious. If you want a quote, email me, Ill give you a couple fax
numbers, and Ill get you brother-in-law pricing.

Gunner

"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

"jim rozen" wrote


You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Elaborate on "target" concept....

Jim



Are you familiar with the term SWAG?

Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

That's all I wanted.

Steve

Hang on.

Quoting you: An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing.

But you want one of us to give you a quote on something without said
drawing. And when one of us asked for a drawing, you state that he
must be too inept to do the job if he can't figure it out w/o a
drawing.

You border on a troll with this level of logic.

JW

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:13:38 -0700, SteveB wrote:


"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:


I am disappointed in you all.

I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?


I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1 and
$1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.

For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would charge
from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and special
considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item, and
after that, it depends on your design.

I am disappointed in you, Steve. I gave you a simple description of
what I wanted and you can't even give me a reasonable estimate of the
cost in making them. I mean, if you need a drawing for a simple job
like that then I don't want you touching the job.

You really missed the target on that one.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:15:18 -0700, SteveB wrote:


"jim rozen" wrote


You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Elaborate on "target" concept....

Jim



Are you familiar with the term SWAG?

Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

That's all I wanted.

Between 1 and 1 million dollars.

You got several in the $40 to $60 range. What more did you expect? I
personally think that is a bit high for someone who wants to do the
project but not much. Somwhat less than an hour per each on a 15" lathe
and an old Bridgeport. And that assumes (note use of that term!) 1 flute
per square side.

SteveB wrote:
"jim rozen" wrote


You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Elaborate on "target" concept....

Jim




Are you familiar with the term SWAG?

Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

That's all I wanted.

Steve

An electrical engineer I once worked for had ordered some "simple" wall
brackets to hang a piece of equipment, drew them unwisely, and was
charged $3000 by the company shop to make them "exactly" like his
sketch. After that he made a lot of unnecessary work for himself (and
me) by avoiding any sort of custom mechanical solution to normal lab
problems. I finally talked him into letting me design a fixture to hold
an unevenly shaped optical device that he had been mounting for months
with duct tape. The next day I found him holding the cheap, simple
ball-plunger fixture in Rodin's The Thinker pose, just muttering 'wow'.


This is why we won't quote time or cost without a drawing, expecially
from obvious mechanical innocents.

Jim Wilkins, electronic/mechanical/chemical lab tech

Artemia Salina wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:13:38 -0700, SteveB wrote:



"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:




I am disappointed in you all.


I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?



I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1 and
$1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.

For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would charge
from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and special
considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item, and
after that, it depends on your design.



I am disappointed in you, Steve. I gave you a simple description of
what I wanted and you can't even give me a reasonable estimate of the
cost in making them. I mean, if you need a drawing for a simple job
like that then I don't want you touching the job.

You really missed the target on that one.




Gawd, you don't get it.....

How wide and deep are the flutes? makes a big difference. True 1/2
round flute or square shouldered "slot"?

And what's the transition from the square end to the turned middle?
Square or large radius transition point?

Just those parts which you left out could make the pricing vary by 100%
or more.

Koz

In article , Gunner says...

Steve, without a print, dimensions, tolerence and so forth, no one in
their right mind would give you a quote, if they do this for a living.

Again, nobody here is trying to give the man a hard time. It's
just that the print of the part is the defacto starting point
for any kind of manufacture for things like this.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article jqOFe.50855$4o.28074@fed1read06, SteveB says...

Are you familiar with the term SWAG?

Basically a hundred bucks an hour.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:45:13 -0700, Koz wrote:



Artemia Salina wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:13:38 -0700, SteveB wrote:



"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:




I am disappointed in you all.


I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?



I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1 and
$1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.

For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would charge
from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and special
considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item, and
after that, it depends on your design.



I am disappointed in you, Steve. I gave you a simple description of
what I wanted and you can't even give me a reasonable estimate of the
cost in making them. I mean, if you need a drawing for a simple job
like that then I don't want you touching the job.

You really missed the target on that one.




Gawd, you don't get it.....

How wide and deep are the flutes? makes a big difference. True 1/2
round flute or square shouldered "slot"?

And what's the transition from the square end to the turned middle?
Square or large radius transition point?

Just those parts which you left out could make the pricing vary by 100%
or more.

I don't want any flutes in my lawn chairs, but thanks for asking.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square rod 6" long ...........


snip

I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even guess
at a price.

All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed a
drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job. Another suggested a CNC shop. Very plausible, but no
guess. Another said $45. Warmer. I know for $45 per, this project will
not be practical.

Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

Thanks.

You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Steve

Steve,
You missed it. When I have made parts from only a description there
have been times that the customer says "That's not what I wanted!".
And even though I repeated what the customer said, and made a sketch
at the time, I still getbto eat the job and have the customer think
I'm a dumb****. So I insist on a sketch with numbers if the sketch is
not to scale. Or a sketch that is EXACTLY what the customer wants and
can just be traced. For you to insult people when they only asked for
simple clarification is pretty lame.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

This reminds me of "Spinal Tap" where they made a stage prop of Stonehenge
but specified inches instead of feet. Instead of a towering structure, they
got a hilarious little model a foot high...


Steve,
You missed it. When I have made parts from only a description there
have been times that the customer says "That's not what I wanted!".
And even though I repeated what the customer said, and made a sketch
at the time, I still getbto eat the job and have the customer think
I'm a dumb****. So I insist on a sketch with numbers if the sketch is
not to scale. Or a sketch that is EXACTLY what the customer wants and
can just be traced. For you to insult people when they only asked for
simple clarification is pretty lame.
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hang on.

Quoting you: An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing.

But you want one of us to give you a quote on something without said
drawing. And when one of us asked for a drawing, you state that he
must be too inept to do the job if he can't figure it out w/o a
drawing.

You border on a troll with this level of logic.

JW


NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.............NO! I gave a thumbnail description.
All I wanted was a guesstimate price.

If someone said, $5-$10 per item, I could say that is within the budget. If
someone would say $40-$60 per item, I would know that is not within the
budget.

I wasn't placing an order, just a guess.

Please reread the description. For a six inch piece of metal, what I
described should be easily imaginable to any experienced metalworker who was
NOT OVERTHINKING THE JOB.

A six inch miniature column cut out of a piece of 1" square solid bar.

Sheesh.

Steve

"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:13:38 -0700, SteveB wrote:


"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:


I am disappointed in you all.

I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?


I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1
and
$1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.

For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would
charge
from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and
special
considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by first
providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item, and
after that, it depends on your design.

I am disappointed in you, Steve. I gave you a simple description of
what I wanted and you can't even give me a reasonable estimate of the
cost in making them. I mean, if you need a drawing for a simple job
like that then I don't want you touching the job.

You really missed the target on that one.



I'm sorry. What part of my $100 to $400 per chair didn't you understand?

Steve

"Koz" wrote in message
...


Artemia Salina wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:13:38 -0700, SteveB wrote:


"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, SteveB wrote:



I am disappointed in you all.

I want to have a welder make me 6 welded steel lawn chairs out of 1"
square tube, and maybe some other stuff. The lawn chairs must
have four legs each and must have some sort of a back to them.

How much will they charge for the job?


I can't quote what "they" would charge. Probably somewhere between $1
and $1 million per chair, and I believe that would be pretty accurate.

For that job, if I were to do it, (I am a certified welder), I would
charge from $100 to $400 per chair depending on the design, elements, and
special considerations. An exact price would have to be determined by
first providing a drawing. I would do it for no less than $100 per item,
and after that, it depends on your design.


I am disappointed in you, Steve. I gave you a simple description of
what I wanted and you can't even give me a reasonable estimate of the
cost in making them. I mean, if you need a drawing for a simple job
like that then I don't want you touching the job.

You really missed the target on that one.



Gawd, you don't get it.....

How wide and deep are the flutes? makes a big difference. True 1/2 round
flute or square shouldered "slot"?

And what's the transition from the square end to the turned middle? Square
or large radius transition point?

Just those parts which you left out could make the pricing vary by 100% or
more.

Koz


How about simple round column $X.

With four flutes, $X.

With half round flutes $X.

How about a price from the simplest to the most complex so that I would have
a range?

You are overthinking this, people.

Steve

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:16:06 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square rod 6" long ...........


snip

I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even
guess
at a price.

All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed
a
drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job. Another suggested a CNC shop. Very plausible, but
no
guess. Another said $45. Warmer. I know for $45 per, this project will
not be practical.

Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

Thanks.

You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Steve


Steve, without a print, dimensions, tolerence and so forth, no one in
their right mind would give you a quote, if they do this for a living.

If you want to fax me a print(s), Ill have a couple of my job shops
give you quotes.

Its not just the description Steve..but the liability. I could have PT
Engineering turn out these for you at $xx each, and if you refused
them, we both (Nyguen and I) would be stuck eating the materials, and
the machine time.

Now if you wanted a BUNCH of them..I can also give you a quote on
having them die cast., either complete units, or modular so you can
mix and match features. Mold cost will be steep, parts will be very
cheap. The first one will cost you about $10,000. The rest of them a
couple bucks each at most.

Based on your rather nebulous description, they could be done for much
less than $45 each,..much less..but material cost alone can run a big
gammit, depending on what you actually want them made off. Aluminum?
Hrs? Crs?

Aluminum can be run balls to the wall, lots of parts per hour.
Steel...way slower...more hours, higher cost. Do they need to be
deburred? What surface finish? Deburring costs are expensive if you
want detail hand work, or simply stuck in a vibratory deburrer?

Im serious. If you want a quote, email me, Ill give you a couple fax
numbers, and Ill get you brother-in-law pricing.

Gunner


Well, well, well, well. Finally someone who has the sense to just spit out
a price, and put a few caveats, codicils and conditions in it. Thank you,
Gunner.

Now, I know that having these pieces made by a machinist is not practical.

Thanks again, Gunner.

Steve

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

Steve, without a print, dimensions, tolerence and so forth, no one in
their right mind would give you a quote, if they do this for a living.

Again, nobody here is trying to give the man a hard time. It's
just that the print of the part is the defacto starting point
for any kind of manufacture for things like this.

Jim


thank you, Jim. This is for a decorative item. It has tolerances of .250",
well within even Steveland Morris' capabilities. It was going to be welded
on to square tube.

I thought giving a very simple description would convey this message. And
by saying they didn't have to be exact and could be made from scrap.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:zGMFe.50686$4o.49024@fed1read06...

"SteveB" wrote in message
newsPEFe.50554$4o.11019@fed1read06...
How much would it cost for a garage machinists to take a piece of 1"
square rod 6" long ...........


snip

I am disappointed in you all. 12 responses, and no one that will even
guess
at a price.

All I want to know is if it will be plausible. One fellow said he needed
a
drawing. For what? If he can't read the simple description, I don't want
him to touch the job. Another suggested a CNC shop. Very plausible, but
no
guess. Another said $45. Warmer. I know for $45 per, this project will
not be practical.

Can anyone give a straight answer? I'm not really interested in how to do
it or which machines one would use. Just a guess at how much each would
cost.

Thanks.

You guys are a great group, but you missed the target on this one.

Steve

That's likely because you're asking a group of people to produce an item
that would be difficult for the typical home shop guy that has no experience
in working production------although I do have. That's why I suggested a
ballpark price of $45. It's not easy to produce what you're looking for, so
unless you can find someone that enjoys making what appears to be a simple
item, repetitively, with less than optimum equipment (you can read that as
CNC), you're not likely to get the hoped for answer. If you can eliminate
the flutes, and stick to interesting designs that can be cut with a (simple)
tracer lathe, you might have some luck, but few of the home shops have them,
either. I happen to own one.

Only a fool would bid on a quantity of items without knowing more----for
their interpretation of your well meaning instructions leave the door open
for considerable misunderstanding, on behalf of both parties. Smart
machinists don't bid on anything without full information, including a
tolerance block.

Harold

leave the ends like they are one inch on each end ...............

turn down the middle to 7/8" diameter ...........

Sounds easy. I think my middle you mean 4 inchs.
The important detail here is the tolerance.


put lengthwise flutes in it ............
So it looked like an antique wood column when done?

Now your getting more involved. I think that means you
want a lot of closely spaced flutes. Maybe 16?
I assume you want concave flutes? What width?
This could get to be quite time consuming.



Will consider any and all ideas.

How about knurling the center instead of fluting?

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote

That's why I suggested a
ballpark price of $45.

Thank you. A simple answer to a simple question. This now tells me that
having them made is impractical.

People were acting like I wanted them to enter into a billion dollar
contract with nothing down, and if I didn't like the finished product, I
could refuse them.

Sometimes simple is just plain elusive.

Steve