I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub
(we've been replacing the freaking washers for years) but he doesn't do
tile so the guy he recommends comes over and takes a look and gives me
this outrageous quote. I was perfectly willing to do the work myself in
the first place but isn't this quote obscene?

ggg wrote:
I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub

This may be a sign that the tile guy has more business than he can
handle.

Travis Jordan wrote:

ggg wrote:

I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub


This may be a sign that the tile guy has more business than he can
handle.


I told him I didn't have the money on me and would call him back and he
offered to do the work on the spot. I've had some of the greatest good
fortune with contractors but when it comes to our home, we've sent away
more contractors than we've used. My parents were neurotic about hiring
people to fix up the house for decades and my mom has spent more/all her
money fixing up things at work and resisting fixing anything at home.

We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of the
roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because
they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done. I'm wondering if I can do the flat
roof myself. I can decarpet big pieces no problem. Maybe I can get the
roofing materials up on the roof.

In article ,
ggg wrote:

I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub
(we've been replacing the freaking washers for years) but he doesn't do
tile so the guy he recommends comes over and takes a look and gives me
this outrageous quote. I was perfectly willing to do the work myself in
the first place but isn't this quote obscene?

Digging the old **** out, doing the job with quality materials and
standing behind it.
No.
What's obscene is your view the man should work for McDonald's wages.

The man's running a business and after materials, taxes and overhead are
taken out it looks more than fair.

You are always welcome to half-ass it in yourself.

You should take pictures. I always need a laugh.

In article ,
ggg wrote:

Travis Jordan wrote:

ggg wrote:

I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub


This may be a sign that the tile guy has more business than he can
handle.


I told him I didn't have the money on me and would call him back and he
offered to do the work on the spot. I've had some of the greatest good
fortune with contractors but when it comes to our home, we've sent away
more contractors than we've used. My parents were neurotic about hiring
people to fix up the house for decades and my mom has spent more/all her
money fixing up things at work and resisting fixing anything at home.

We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of the
roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because
they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done. I'm wondering if I can do the flat
roof myself. I can decarpet big pieces no problem. Maybe I can get the
roofing materials up on the roof.

Please take pictures. With your extensive knowledge you should start a
roofing company.

ggg wrote:
We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of
the roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because

How big is your roof area, and what materials were involved? It isn't
unusual for a quality tile reroof on a 2500 square foot home here in
Florida to cost $20K....or more with features such as secondary
waterproofing (think ice 'n water shield) and modified bitumen
underlayment. For shingles with conventional installation materials it
should be half that.

How do you replace the backer "cement" board while replacing only 9 tiles.
To do that properly would require a tear-out.

"ggg" wrote in message
...
I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub
(we've been replacing the freaking washers for years) but he doesn't do
tile so the guy he recommends comes over and takes a look and gives me
this outrageous quote. I was perfectly willing to do the work myself in
the first place but isn't this quote obscene?

Eric Tonks wrote:

How do you replace the backer "cement" board while replacing only 9 tiles.
To do that properly would require a tear-out.

If the tearing out left at least one stud showing then it can be done by
carefully cutting a new piece of backer board and the edges of the
opening in the existing backer to mate. Then spread Rockite or similar
thin expanding cement on the edges of the opening and the patch, shove
the patch in and screw it to the stud(s).

I've done that more than once and the repairs have worked for years now,
but if I were a pro I wouldn't want to take on thAT job for much less
that what the guy quoted either. It takes time and care to do it right,
definitely not a 'wham bam thank you mam job'. plus it'd take two trips
to complete.....to make sure the patch cement was well set before
replacing the tiles. Not to mention that if the old tiles are going to
be being reused the mortar/backer board has to be scraped off them
carefully to avoid busting one.

There's almost no way to get a "small job" done for "a few bucks" in
urbania anymore. The overheads of insurance, transportation, business
fees and taxes, plus a few bounced checks and a couple of jobs that
don't go as planned and have to be redone for nothing....those all drive
the hourly rates higher and higher. Best to stop dwelling on what things
"used to cost" and get on with life.

Lucky is the homeowner who can do nearly all of the little jobs him/herself.

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

bill wrote:
In article ,
ggg wrote:


I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub
(we've been replacing the freaking washers for years) but he doesn't do
tile so the guy he recommends comes over and takes a look and gives me
this outrageous quote. I was perfectly willing to do the work myself in
the first place but isn't this quote obscene?


Digging the old **** out, doing the job with quality materials and
standing behind it.
No.
What's obscene is your view the man should work for McDonald's wages.

The man's running a business and after materials, taxes and overhead are
taken out it looks more than fair.

You are always welcome to half-ass it in yourself.

You should take pictures. I always need a laugh.


oic so that IS a fair price? I have the materials including the tiles.
He isn't removing the whole wall, just adjacent tiles he said.

bill wrote:

In article ,
ggg wrote:


Travis Jordan wrote:


ggg wrote:


I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles
incl. cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub


This may be a sign that the tile guy has more business than he can
handle.



I told him I didn't have the money on me and would call him back and he
offered to do the work on the spot. I've had some of the greatest good
fortune with contractors but when it comes to our home, we've sent away
more contractors than we've used. My parents were neurotic about hiring
people to fix up the house for decades and my mom has spent more/all her
money fixing up things at work and resisting fixing anything at home.

We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of the
roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because
they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done. I'm wondering if I can do the flat
roof myself. I can decarpet big pieces no problem. Maybe I can get the
roofing materials up on the roof.


Please take pictures. With your extensive knowledge you should start a
roofing company.
I've been watching a number of diy shows on the less popular channels
that are more nitty gritty and several eps like broken house, houselift,
diy channel are showing HOs who have all said that they couldn't swallow
the roofer's estimate and that they were spurred to diy by the size of
the estimate. I have a flat roof so I have a much easier time than the
guys on tv. I have all the books I know about the membranes and the
nails from a past commercial roofer who gave the standard listing of
materials. The residential estimators wouldn't even listen to my mother
when she asked what layers would be going in, they ignored her questions
and she is not an obnoxious client. She's dealt with many contractors
before but when she is home, these local small companies see her
differently.

Travis Jordan wrote:

ggg wrote:

We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of
the roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because


How big is your roof area, and what materials were involved? It isn't
unusual for a quality tile reroof on a 2500 square foot home here in
Florida to cost $20K....or more with features such as secondary
waterproofing (think ice 'n water shield) and modified bitumen
underlayment. For shingles with conventional installation materials it
should be half that.



it's a flat membrane covered roof about 1000 square feet.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Eric Tonks wrote:

How do you replace the backer "cement" board while replacing only 9
tiles.
To do that properly would require a tear-out.


If the tearing out left at least one stud showing then it can be done by
carefully cutting a new piece of backer board and the edges of the
opening in the existing backer to mate. Then spread Rockite or similar
thin expanding cement on the edges of the opening and the patch, shove
the patch in and screw it to the stud(s).

I've done that more than once and the repairs have worked for years now,
but if I were a pro I wouldn't want to take on thAT job for much less
that what the guy quoted either. It takes time and care to do it right,
definitely not a 'wham bam thank you mam job'. plus it'd take two trips
to complete.....to make sure the patch cement was well set before
replacing the tiles. Not to mention that if the old tiles are going to
be being reused the mortar/backer board has to be scraped off them
carefully to avoid busting one.

There's almost no way to get a "small job" done for "a few bucks" in
urbania anymore. The overheads of insurance, transportation, business
fees and taxes, plus a few bounced checks and a couple of jobs that
don't go as planned and have to be redone for nothing....those all drive
the hourly rates higher and higher. Best to stop dwelling on what things
"used to cost" and get on with life.

Lucky is the homeowner who can do nearly all of the little jobs
him/herself.

Jeff


ok thanks for the feedback.

3rd eye wrote:

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:38:18 GMT, ggg wrote:


Travis Jordan wrote:


ggg wrote:


snipped

and I really believe that it's because

they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done.


I think this sentence says it all.

I don't think you do. You don't know her. She doesn't hector or name
drop brands. She told them she had overseen a roof installation before
and asked them what layers are going on the roof and what is the square
footage. They said they don't know what they'll use and don't worry.
She said but which brands do you like. They just ignored her. That is
bull****. I have estimates for commercial jobs for the same size and
the listing of layers and the materials used.

ggg wrote:
it's a flat membrane covered roof about 1000 square feet.

Assuming there isn't anything complex about this roof (ie. drain
scuppers, need for taper, etc.) a membrane reroof (EPDM or modified
bitumen) would cost about $220 / square here in Florida including tear
off. So something is very, very wrong with the pricing you got.

ggg wrote:
They said they don't know what they'll use and
don't worry. She said but which brands do you like. They just

Here in Florida it is customary for roofing contractors to take whatever
ASTM-complaint materials are available at the supply house. I even
spec'd a 3-layer modifed bitumen job one time using GAF Ruberoid
products, and when I stopped by the job site the crew had put down some
cheap Tamko base sheet and had started on the interply. They said
"that's what was there when they went by the supply house". I made 'em
take it up and start over.

"ggg" wrote

I've been watching a number of diy shows on the less popular channels
that are more nitty gritty and several eps like broken house, houselift,
diy channel are showing HOs who have all said that they couldn't swallow
the roofer's estimate and that they were spurred to diy by the size of
the estimate. I have a flat roof so I have a much easier time than the
guys on tv. I have all the books I know about the membranes and the
nails from a past commercial roofer who gave the standard listing of
materials. The residential estimators wouldn't even listen to my mother
when she asked what layers would be going in, they ignored her questions
and she is not an obnoxious client. She's dealt with many contractors
before but when she is home, these local small companies see her
differently.

Sounds like your mother had plenty of professionals turn their back on her.
I will say, it's a good thing you have her professional advice to help you
through what the DIY books/videos don't show. You can always get sound
advice from HD for what your mother doesn't know.

"ggg" wrote

I don't think you do. You don't know her. She doesn't hector or name
drop brands. She told them she had overseen a roof installation before
and asked them what layers are going on the roof and what is the square
footage. They said they don't know what they'll use and don't worry.
She said but which brands do you like. They just ignored her. That is
bull****. I have estimates for commercial jobs for the same size and
the listing of layers and the materials used.

The technic the professionals use to get rid of tire kickers like you and
your mother is, you simply don't waste valuable time and walk away. You
explained it about right.

johnny wrote:

"ggg" wrote


I've been watching a number of diy shows on the less popular channels
that are more nitty gritty and several eps like broken house, houselift,
diy channel are showing HOs who have all said that they couldn't swallow
the roofer's estimate and that they were spurred to diy by the size of
the estimate. I have a flat roof so I have a much easier time than the
guys on tv. I have all the books I know about the membranes and the
nails from a past commercial roofer who gave the standard listing of
materials. The residential estimators wouldn't even listen to my mother
when she asked what layers would be going in, they ignored her questions
and she is not an obnoxious client. She's dealt with many contractors
before but when she is home, these local small companies see her
differently.


Sounds like your mother had plenty of professionals turn their back on her.
I will say, it's a good thing you have her professional advice to help you
through what the DIY books/videos don't show. You can always get sound
advice from HD for what your mother doesn't know.


? The estimators all did followups and seemed to expect to get the job
but this client doesn't need a soothing manner, she needs specifics. I
think they don't talk to all their potential customers this way. Well,
we've been pretty lucky with contractors outside the home so we don't
hate contractors and plumbers. We think our ones are great.

Do people really trust HD staff for advice? That seems dangerous. I
only got advice about paint type (eggshell and he was right on the money.)

"ggg" wrote
I told him I didn't have the money on me and would call him back and he
offered to do the work on the spot. I've had some of the greatest good
fortune with contractors but when it comes to our home, we've sent away
more contractors than we've used. My parents were neurotic about hiring
people to fix up the house for decades and my mom has spent more/all her
money fixing up things at work and resisting fixing anything at home.

It's too bad you didn't seek medical attention for their disease, neurosis
is treatable. I'll bet the place looks like a dump, that's sad.


We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of the
roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because
they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done. I'm wondering if I can do the flat
roof myself. I can decarpet big pieces no problem. Maybe I can get the
roofing materials up on the roof.

They probably figured you weren't serious, and the dump is to be condemned
shortly. You can't blame them for not wasting their time with a tire
kicker.

johnny wrote:

"ggg" wrote


I don't think you do. You don't know her. She doesn't hector or name
drop brands. She told them she had overseen a roof installation before
and asked them what layers are going on the roof and what is the square
footage. They said they don't know what they'll use and don't worry.
She said but which brands do you like. They just ignored her. That is
bull****. I have estimates for commercial jobs for the same size and
the listing of layers and the materials used.


The technic the professionals use to get rid of tire kickers like you and
your mother is, you simply don't waste valuable time and walk away. You
explained it about right.

I thought so too for one of them but then why did we get followup calls
and letters from them about getting the job? My mother said they
sounded surprised that they hadn't heard from her. She repeated that
she would like to know square footage and materials used.

Commercially, it is absolutely standard to get estimates listing
materials and square footage as the basic price with the caveat that add
ons are allowed if they discover problems. In case anyone else has this
problem and googles for the answer, I have to take a position that it
is not normal to ignore this in the estimate that a customer is expected
to sign.

johnny wrote:

"ggg" wrote

I told him I didn't have the money on me and would call him back and he
offered to do the work on the spot. I've had some of the greatest good
fortune with contractors but when it comes to our home, we've sent away
more contractors than we've used. My parents were neurotic about hiring
people to fix up the house for decades and my mom has spent more/all her
money fixing up things at work and resisting fixing anything at home.


It's too bad you didn't seek medical attention for their disease, neurosis
is treatable. I'll bet the place looks like a dump, that's sad.


You might win that bet.

I've said to tenants before that it looks a lot worse than the building
she sank all her money in. She's proud of herself for doing that.



We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of the
roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because
they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done. I'm wondering if I can do the flat
roof myself. I can decarpet big pieces no problem. Maybe I can get the
roofing materials up on the roof.


They probably figured you weren't serious, and the dump is to be condemned
shortly. You can't blame them for not wasting their time with a tire
kicker.


You know who would give her a fair price - the immigrant contractors.
That's who we used and got most of the estimates for the commercial
jobs. Not one Indian or Pakistani needed to resubmit a bid for not
putting down specific materials. They usually don't take residential
jobs though so she looked for people locally who have been around for
years. Do they do a shoddier job because they are immigrants? not ever
in our experience, our shoddy jobs at home weren't by people born overseas.

ggg wrote:
You know who would give her a fair price - the immigrant contractors.

In Florida, the most respected roofing workers seem to be Mexican.

"ggg" wrote in message
...
I got quoted $350 minimum, average $500 to replace 9 bathroom tiles incl.
cement board. My plumber finally fixed our stems in the tub (we've been
replacing the freaking washers for years) but he doesn't do tile so the guy
he recommends comes over and takes a look and gives me this outrageous
quote. I was perfectly willing to do the work myself in the first place
but isn't this quote obscene?

Let's think about what this job entails...

-Trip #1 to the home.
- Complete Tear-out.
-Attach backerboard.
-Install tiles.
(Total labor ~4 hours, including travel and clean-up)

- Material - probably $100-125, depending on markup (remember, the
contractor did have to make a trip somewhere to get the material).

- Trip #2
- Grout
(Total Labor ~2 hours, including travel and clean-up)

- Material ~$25

- Trip #3
-Seal Grout. (wait one hour)
-Seal Grout again.(wait one hour)
-Caulk
(Total Labor ~ 3 hours including travel and clean up)

- Material $10

Total Materials ~ $150 +/-

Total Labor ~ 9 hours.

Assuming the job costs $500, with $150 of labor, that leaves $350 for the
contractor's 9 hours. Something like $40 per hour. If the guy works 50
hours a week, 50 weeks a year, he's gonna gross $50k a year, and has to pay
healthcare, insurance, and overhead (vehicle, insurance, tools, etc) out of
that.

Not cheap, but when you really think about it, not too bad either.

KB

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:33:55 GMT, ggg scribbled
this interesting note:

Do people really trust HD staff for advice? That seems dangerous. I
only got advice about paint type (eggshell and he was right on the money.)

Then you got lucky!:~)


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:04:18 GMT, "Travis Jordan"
scribbled this interesting note:

ggg wrote:
it's a flat membrane covered roof about 1000 square feet.

Assuming there isn't anything complex about this roof (ie. drain
scuppers, need for taper, etc.) a membrane reroof (EPDM or modified
bitumen) would cost about $220 / square here in Florida including tear
off. So something is very, very wrong with the pricing you got.


Agreed.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:20:03 GMT, "Travis Jordan"
scribbled this interesting note:

ggg wrote:
You know who would give her a fair price - the immigrant contractors.

In Florida, the most respected roofing workers seem to be Mexican.

That ain't just in Florida anymore...



--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"John Willis" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:20:03 GMT, "Travis Jordan"
scribbled this interesting note:

ggg wrote:
You know who would give her a fair price - the immigrant contractors.

In Florida, the most respected roofing workers seem to be Mexican.

That ain't just in Florida anymore...

As long as they do the work properly, in a timely fashion, and for a fair
price, I really don't give a damn where they come from.

aem sends...

"ggg" wrote in message
...
johnny wrote:

"ggg" wrote

I told him I didn't have the money on me and would call him back and he
offered to do the work on the spot. I've had some of the greatest good
fortune with contractors but when it comes to our home, we've sent away
more contractors than we've used. My parents were neurotic about hiring
people to fix up the house for decades and my mom has spent more/all her
money fixing up things at work and resisting fixing anything at home.


It's too bad you didn't seek medical attention for their disease,
neurosis
is treatable. I'll bet the place looks like a dump, that's sad.


You might win that bet.

I've said to tenants before that it looks a lot worse than the building
she sank all her money in. She's proud of herself for doing that.



We're still stewing over the $20k roofing estimate we got. None of the
roofing contractors gave the requested detailed estimate: no
measurements of the roof were stated, no materials were stated, just a
short paragraph with the bill and I really believe that it's because
they refuse to hear her when she tells them that she knows what things
cost and how things should be done. I'm wondering if I can do the flat
roof myself. I can decarpet big pieces no problem. Maybe I can get the
roofing materials up on the roof.


They probably figured you weren't serious, and the dump is to be
condemned
shortly. You can't blame them for not wasting their time with a tire
kicker.


You know who would give her a fair price - the immigrant contractors.
That's who we used and got most of the estimates for the commercial jobs.
Not one Indian or Pakistani needed to resubmit a bid for not putting down
specific materials. They usually don't take residential jobs though so she
looked for people locally who have been around for years. Do they do a
shoddier job because they are immigrants? not ever in our experience, our
shoddy jobs at home weren't by people born overseas.

A Immagrant Paki you say? I wouldnt trust one of those theiving lieing
*******s