When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for it
to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking it
will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed' through
before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm rather than
cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other solutions?

W.D.

Insulating the pipes will help save some energy, but I agree it's not
going to solve your problem. They do make recirculating pump gizmos
that will either keep it hot all the time or that have a button you
push when you expect to want hot water. They pumps are located near
the point of use and return the water back into the cold water line, so
it doesn't go down the drain. I think the push the button models may
also get the water there faster than running it down the sink, because
the pump pushes the water faster than pressure through the faucet would.

Why not install a instant heater under the sink..

--

---------------------------------------
Brian A. Dye

http://tech-home.com
---------------------------------------


"W.D." wdanis at NO SPAM yahoo dot com wrote in message
...
When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for
it to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking
it will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed'
through before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm
rather than cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other
solutions?

W.D.

"W.D." wdanis at NO SPAM yahoo dot com wrote in message
...
When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for
it to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking
it will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed'
through before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm
rather than cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other
solutions?

W.D.

Nor much to do that is efficient. Recirculating pumps give the hot water
fast, but you have a pump running and heat loss along the way. Insulating
helps, of course.

No matter how hot the water in the tank is, the water in the pipe has to be
emptied first. Not a cheap solution, but the point of use heaters reduce
the time to just a few seconds. I have no idea of the cost to have one
installed though.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Insulating the pipes will help save some energy, but I agree it's not
going to solve your problem. They do make recirculating pump gizmos
that will either keep it hot all the time or that have a button you
push when you expect to want hot water. They pumps are located near
the point of use and return the water back into the cold water line, so
it doesn't go down the drain. I think the push the button models may
also get the water there faster than running it down the sink, because
the pump pushes the water faster than pressure through the faucet would.

I am working on this problem now. Our pipes in Florida are in the
concrete slab. The concrete is a heat sink and it sucks the heat out of
the hot water right away. I am moving the water heater and putting
insulated hot water lines overhead. Do not use a circulator because you
will be continuously heating the concrete slab a big waste of energy. I
am planning to use a tankless water heater - put it right next to the
bathroom - and run one insulated hot water line to the kitchen.
Harry

W.D. wrote:
When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds
for it to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the
house. This is inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater
is new, the temp is high enough, and the water pressure is adequate.
Any suggestions on how to 'fix' this? My first thoughts are to
insulate the pipes in the crawl space but I'm not sure how much of a
difference this will make as I'm thinking it will still take 70
seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed' through before the
hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm rather than cold
water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other solutions?
W.D.


I can only think of three approaches likely to help.

1. Reduce the time to move the cooled water out of the way, by reducing
the volume or increasing the flow
1a. Replace the pipes with smaller pipes. This many mean replacing one
large pipe with several smaller ones.
1b. If you have water saver devices, remove them.

2. Add a re-circulate system
2a Use a pump or thermo-siphon full time
2b.Use a pump that you can switch via a timer or manually.

3. Provide a local water heater at the location needed.


--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
Insulating the pipes will help save some energy, but I agree it's not
going to solve your problem. They do make recirculating pump gizmos
that will either keep it hot all the time or that have a button you
push when you expect to want hot water. They pumps are located near
the point of use and return the water back into the cold water line, so
it doesn't go down the drain. I think the push the button models may
also get the water there faster than running it down the sink, because
the pump pushes the water faster than pressure through the faucet would.

I am working on this problem now. Our pipes in Florida are in the
concrete slab. The concrete is a heat sink and it sucks the heat out of
the hot water right away. I am moving the water heater and putting
insulated hot water lines overhead. Do not use a circulator because you
will be continuously heating the concrete slab a big waste of energy. I
am planning to use a tankless water heater - put it right next to the
bathroom - and run one insulated hot water line to the kitchen.
Harry

I live in Florida too, Harry, and I look at it this way....in a month or two
we won't need much hot water! ....take care, Ross

"W.D." wdanis at NO SPAM yahoo dot com wrote in message
...
When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for
it to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking
it will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed'
through before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm
rather than cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other
solutions?

W.D.


This is what I did:
http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

I have a two story house with the water heater in exactly the opposite
corner of my house from my bathroom, I installed this and now I don't waste
water getting it to the tap. Little expensive little noisy but it works for
me! YMMV or maybe not?

Rich

Insulate the pipes. Whether that works or not, it will give you
hotter water at the tap and save energy. Your water pressure may be
low.


On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:39:08 -0500, "W.D." wdanis at NO SPAM yahoo
dot com wrote:

When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for it
to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking it
will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed' through
before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm rather than
cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other solutions?

W.D.

They do make recirculating pump gizmos...

You might power one with a $15 outdoor motion-activated light in a hallway.

Nick

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:03:55 -0500, Harry Everhart
wrote:

Insulating the pipes will help save some energy, but I agree it's not
going to solve your problem. They do make recirculating pump gizmos
that will either keep it hot all the time or that have a button you
push when you expect to want hot water. They pumps are located near
the point of use and return the water back into the cold water line, so
it doesn't go down the drain. I think the push the button models may
also get the water there faster than running it down the sink, because
the pump pushes the water faster than pressure through the faucet would.

I am working on this problem now. Our pipes in Florida are in the
concrete slab. The concrete is a heat sink and it sucks the heat out of
the hot water right away. I am moving the water heater and putting
insulated hot water lines overhead. Do not use a circulator because you
will be continuously heating the concrete slab a big waste of energy. I
am planning to use a tankless water heater - put it right next to the
bathroom - and run one insulated hot water line to the kitchen.
Harry

I did that to my house in Austin. I used 1/2 inch cpvc and double
insulated it. It was 3/4 copper I disconnected.
I used the foam sticks and then wrapped them with more insulation
and wrapped that with plastic to hold it all together. It was so
nice to finally have hot water waiting for me instead of me waiting
for it.

PJ

The recirculating pumps, like the Laing Autocirc can be set to turn
off by thermostat at 91F, or by a combination of timer and thermostat
that can be set in 15 minute increments throughout the day. For
example you could have it run for 2-hours in the morning when you take
showers, and 2-hours in the evening when you wash dishes, etc. We
just let ours run on the thermostat.

On 12 Mar 2005 14:37:57 -0500, wrote:

They do make recirculating pump gizmos...

You might power one with a $15 outdoor motion-activated light in a hallway.

Nick

Rich wrote:

"W.D." wdanis at NO SPAM yahoo dot com wrote in message
...

When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for
it to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking
it will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed'
through before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm
rather than cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other
solutions?

W.D.



This is what I did:
http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

I have a two story house with the water heater in exactly the opposite
corner of my house from my bathroom, I installed this and now I don't waste
water getting it to the tap. Little expensive little noisy but it works for
me! YMMV or maybe not?

Rich



I've wondered about those kind of units. Perhaps you can satisfy my
curiousity:

If, after pushing the button and using some hot water, you want to draw
a glass of cold water. Do you have to leave the "cold" water running for
a while to get the tepid water out of it's line before it becomes cold?

Thanks,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

I can wet my tooth brush with the cold water and by the time I'm ready for a
rewetting the water is cold.
Rich


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

"W.D." wdanis at NO SPAM yahoo dot com wrote in message
...

When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for
it to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This
is inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp
is high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on
how to 'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the
crawl space but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as
I'm thinking it will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to
be 'pushed' through before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll
get lukewarm rather than cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be
hot? Other solutions?

W.D.



This is what I did:
http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

I have a two story house with the water heater in exactly the opposite
corner of my house from my bathroom, I installed this and now I don't
waste water getting it to the tap. Little expensive little noisy but it
works for me! YMMV or maybe not?

Rich

I've wondered about those kind of units. Perhaps you can satisfy my
curiousity:

If, after pushing the button and using some hot water, you want to draw a
glass of cold water. Do you have to leave the "cold" water running for a
while to get the tepid water out of it's line before it becomes cold?

Thanks,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

First, you have to know what is the problem. Years ago I found that my
kitchen hot water actually went under the basement floor. It would take
forever to get hot water and 2 minutes later it was not hot any more. I
found the warm basement floor when walking down there with bare feet. I
re-routed it overhead and insulated it. I also connected it directly to
the pipe at the top of the water heater .... previously it went about 20
feet around and around. Problem fixed. Now I have a problem with a
bathroom sink. It only takes about 12 ro 14 seconds to get hot water,
however, and ironically, the top of the water heater is only about 3
feet from the sink itself. Again, it is connected to a pipe that goes
around and around. I can't really change this until I remove the water
heater (which is close to end of life). So, it will be done in the
future.

W.D. wrote:

When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for it
to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking it
will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed' through
before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm rather than
cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other solutions?

W.D.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


snip

I have no idea of the cost to have one
installed though.

Or how much it is to run one. Some electrics are 60 or more amps.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

I've wondered about those kind of units. Perhaps you can satisfy my
curiousity:

If, after pushing the button and using some hot water, you want to draw
a glass of cold water. Do you have to leave the "cold" water running for
a while to get the tepid water out of it's line before it becomes cold?

Thanks,

Jeff

Does this unit pump the water back through the cold line? I see there are
only 2 fittings coming out of the pump. Wouldn't a dedicated pump return
line be necessary to keep the problem above from happening?

"Olaf" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

I've wondered about those kind of units. Perhaps you can satisfy my
curiousity:

If, after pushing the button and using some hot water, you want to draw
a glass of cold water. Do you have to leave the "cold" water running for
a while to get the tepid water out of it's line before it becomes cold?

Thanks,

Jeff

Does this unit pump the water back through the cold line? I see there are
only 2 fittings coming out of the pump. Wouldn't a dedicated pump return
line be necessary to keep the problem above from happening?



No thats the intention of these units you don't have to add more plumbing.
There is an adjustment knob on the unit that allows you to set what the temp
should be when the pump cuts out. I start the unit and get undressed then
head for the shower and the water is hot, don't have to wait 50 seconds for
my softened water and previously heated too water going down the drain.

Instant hot water is great but I would think twice about it if there are
small children in the house. Been there and done that, Rob Mills

"Rob Mills" wrote in message
news:Ze%Yd.10890$N15.3593@okepread06...

Instant hot water is great but I would think twice about it if there are
small children in the house. Been there and done that, Rob Mills

Why? What is the difference between instant and regular at the same
temperature?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Rob Mills" wrote in message
news:Ze%Yd.10890$N15.3593@okepread06...

Instant hot water is great but I would think twice about it if there are
small children in the house. Been there and done that, Rob Mills

Why? What is the difference between instant and regular at the same
temperature?

Regular: Child turns on full hot and puts hands in the flow. It eventually
becomes warmer than comfortable and hands are pulled out.

Instant: Child turns on full hot, puts hands in the flow, and is scalded.

The above would only happen of course if your hot water was set higher than
recommended, but many people do have "hotter" hot water in order to have "more"
hot water.

Rick Brandt wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Rob Mills" wrote in message
news:Ze%Yd.10890$N15.3593@okepread06...

Instant hot water is great but I would think twice about it if there are
small children in the house. Been there and done that, Rob Mills

Why? What is the difference between instant and regular at the same
temperature?


Regular: Child turns on full hot and puts hands in the flow. It eventually
becomes warmer than comfortable and hands are pulled out.

Instant: Child turns on full hot, puts hands in the flow, and is scalded.

The above would only happen of course if your hot water was set higher than
recommended, but many people do have "hotter" hot water in order to have "more"
hot water.


Then "those people" should do what I did; installed a "tempering valve"
so that the DHW stays below a scalding temperature.

I do feed the dishwasher from a point ahead of the tempering valve
though, to get the hottest water in it fastest.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

"Rick Brandt" wrote in message
Instant: Child turns on full hot, puts hands in the flow, and is scalded.

The above would only happen of course if your hot water was set higher
than recommended, but many people do have "hotter" hot water in order to
have "more" hot water.

Those people are stupid. The beauty of instant is that you don't have to
set it hotter to have more, you have all you need.

On 2005-03-13, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Then "those people" should do what I did; installed a "tempering
valve" so that the DHW stays below a scalding temperature.

May I ask what tempering valve you used? I'm considering doing
exactly that. Set water heater to 140 F, put the vanities and shower
on a tempering valve at 110 F or so, use 140F for the dishwasher and
clothes washer (I wash sheets in hot to kill dust mites) . I'm not
sure about the kitchen sink. I'm also unsure if it is better to have
two different hot water piping systems (hot and hotter) with a single
big tempering valve, or install individual tempering valves at each
fixture. Since I'm redoing all the plumbing, I can do either.

Cheers, Wayne

On 2005-03-13, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Those people are stupid. The beauty of instant is that you don't
have to set it hotter to have more, you have all you need.

With "instant on" via a pump and a conventional tank water heater, you
still may want to raise the hot water temperature on the tank to
increase the heat storage and not run out of hot water as quickly.

Cheers, Wayne

I think your problem is that you have a large amount of water that
cools, and you have to wait until that is displaced by heated water
before you get hot water at the faucet.

It follows that your supply line is too long, or too wide. Take a look
at it. If it is routed indirectly, shorten it; if it is 3/4, replace it
with 1/2 inch. I think insulation won't help much as it will not keep
the water in the line hot overnight, or when it is not used for a few hours.

I solved a similar problem by running a second line from near the
farthest faucet back to the bottom of the water heater, forming a loop.
I insulated the supply line and left the return line uninsulated, and
a check valve prevents backflow. Since the supply line is insulated,
the water in there remains hotter. When it cools, it is forced through
the return line to the heater. This works for me because I have a
multi-story house (long vertical runs), I was able to install it easily
when we were doing a tearout remodel of the bathroom, my plumbing is all
indoors, and I live where we have far more heating degree days than
cooling days. There is some inefficiency as it is like a radiator, and
I have to heat a little more water than before, but on the other hand it
uses no electricity and less water than before, and runs constantly and
silently. I have had it in over two years now, and I am still amazed at
the instant hot water, what a luxury!

In Atlanta, with plumbing in a crawlspace, this might not be the best
option for you. You might consider tankless heaters near the point of
use, possibly even eliminating your current water heater.

W.D. wrote:

When using the ho****er in my Atlanta home it takes about 70 seconds for it
to get hot irrespective of which faucet I'm using in the house. This is
inconvenient, and a waste of water. The water heater is new, the temp is
high enough, and the water pressure is adequate. Any suggestions on how to
'fix' this? My first thoughts are to insulate the pipes in the crawl space
but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will make as I'm thinking it
will still take 70 seconds for the water in the pipes to be 'pushed' through
before the hot stuff starts flowing. So maybe I'll get lukewarm rather than
cold water for 70 seconds but it still won't be hot? Other solutions?

W.D.



--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.

Yes, there should be a dedicated return that goes back to the cold
water inlet of the water heater . Put a check valve in the return line
so the water can't go the wrong way when the pump is off. Use a
stainless steel or bronze or hi temp plastic pump. I see a lot of
people use iron body pumps to save money, they die quickly & put rust
in the water. you can also return to a tee installed at the drain valve
on the water heater.
Easier to do with a crawlspace or basement than with a slab.
Sonetimes you have to go back into the cold line under the sink, but
that can cause problems, like putting hot water into the toilet &
cracking the toilet tank due to water temperature shocking the tank.



Stretch.

Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2005-03-13, Jeff Wisnia wrote:


Then "those people" should do what I did; installed a "tempering
valve" so that the DHW stays below a scalding temperature.


May I ask what tempering valve you used? I'm considering doing
exactly that. Set water heater to 140 F, put the vanities and shower
on a tempering valve at 110 F or so, use 140F for the dishwasher and
clothes washer (I wash sheets in hot to kill dust mites) . I'm not
sure about the kitchen sink. I'm also unsure if it is better to have
two different hot water piping systems (hot and hotter) with a single
big tempering valve, or install individual tempering valves at each
fixture. Since I'm redoing all the plumbing, I can do either.

Cheers, Wayne


I used a 3/4" Watts tempering valve, they're available at any plumbing
supply center. They have a knob adjustable temperature seting. The
thermostatic guts are a little like those in an automobile engine
coolant thermostat and can be easily changed out if and when they fail
without having to break out the soldering gear. I've had to stick in new
parts once after ten years of service, it's coming up on twenty years
now and it's still working OK. Wish I could say the same for our
electric water heaters, I can only get about six years out of them
before something starts leaking. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"