Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.

Drinking, showering with salty water. But I don't know the
concentration involved.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Drinking, showering with salty water. But I don't know the
concentration involved.


Actually water softeners use salt to remove calcium from the water.
They do not leave noticable amounts of salt in the treated water.

Mike

"Mike Stewart" wrote in message
...

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Drinking, showering with salty water. But I don't know the
concentration involved.


Actually water softeners use salt to remove calcium from the water.
They do not leave noticable amounts of salt in the treated water.


its enough to be of concern to people watching their salt intake. what ive
seen done is what they call a 1/2 and 1/2. put the hot water on the
softener and make it a little softer than normal. dishes, laundry,
showering, etc will get the benefit. OR... put the whole system on the
softener EXCEPT the cold tap in the kitchen and the ice maker/water tap if
the fridge has one.

there are other softening agents besides salt that you can use, but salt is
the cheapest and the others have their drawbacks also. you can also buy a
softener that uses no consumables at all, but it uses electricity and they
are expensive...

randy

Water softeners are great! We love ours. We have our entire house on
softened water. They do, however, increase salt intake. It is fairly
minimal, but it may not be good for those on a low sodium diet. Check with
your doctor.

I have heard recently that potassium chloride salt is made for use in water
softeners, specifically for people on restricted sodium diets. I've never
seen potassium chloride being sold in Home Depots or Lowes, but you
apparently can get it from salt suppliers. You just have to call around. I
think it's a little more expensive than sodium chloride and I don't know if
there are any special requirements or modifications to be made on the
softener equipment to use potassium chloride.

Good luck!


"Martin Hirsch" wrote in message
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05...
Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or
maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.

"Martin Hirsch" wrote
Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or
maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.

I installed a softener even though we have city water, simply because I love
having soft water.

Benefits are, you get a smoother shave if you shave with a straight razor.
You use less soap for laundry etc. You use less toothpaste, believe it or
not because of the foaming you get from soft water. My coffee tastes better
from my drip coffee maker. You get more lather from your bar of soap of for
a bubble bath, or washing your car, or shampoo lather. I actually feel
cleaner when taking a shower with soft water than without.

I don't believe it puts salt into your water, if so it must be minimum
because you can't taste it. And I still get ice cubes from the freezer.

One thing about having a softener, it spoils you. On those travel days
staying away from home, you sure notice how hard the water is, makes getting
back home that more enjoyable.

Another thing....if you're adding a softener to a home water system that has
existed for many years and you live in a hard water area, your pipes will
have hard water buildup inside them. As the soft water travels through the
pipes, it will pick up hard water minerals and make the water "less soft"
than if you had new pipes. Our home (and pipes) are 34 years old. I added
the softener when the pipes were approximately 26 years old. I've noticed
that newer homes with softeners have softer water than I have in my home,
but it's still an improvement and I wouldn't do without it in any home that
I reside.

"Martin Hirsch" wrote in message
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05...
Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or
maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.

If yoo're an environmentalist,
you might be concerned about flushing
all that salt into the water
whenever the unit recharges.


the sodium in softened drinking water
can be harmful to your health.

If you do decide on a softener,
just soften the cold water that feeds your water heater.


On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:08:47 -0700, "Martin Hirsch"
wrote:

Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.


rj

rdkapp wrote:

Another thing....if you're adding a softener to a home water system that has
existed for many years and you live in a hard water area, your pipes will
have hard water buildup inside them. As the soft water travels through the
pipes, it will pick up hard water minerals and make the water "less soft"
than if you had new pipes. Our home (and pipes) are 34 years old. I added
the softener when the pipes were approximately 26 years old. I've noticed
that newer homes with softeners have softer water than I have in my home,
but it's still an improvement and I wouldn't do without it in any home that
I reside.



If you have your water tested at the tap, then set your softener
accordingly, it should make up for any hardness at the tap, shouldn't it?

If you have your water tested at the tap, then set your softener
accordingly, it should make up for any hardness at the tap, shouldn't it?

If you have your softener at the tap, then yes, you are correct. However,
if your softener is at the main valve (like mine) or any location where you
are trying to soften water throughout your home, then as the softened water
travels through the existing pipe containing mineral buildup, it will be
picking up minerals (which makes water "hard") along the way and thus, will
become "less soft."


"Curt Martin" wrote in message
...


rdkapp wrote:

Another thing....if you're adding a softener to a home water system that
has
existed for many years and you live in a hard water area, your pipes
will
have hard water buildup inside them. As the soft water travels through
the
pipes, it will pick up hard water minerals and make the water "less
soft"
than if you had new pipes. Our home (and pipes) are 34 years old. I
added
the softener when the pipes were approximately 26 years old. I've
noticed
that newer homes with softeners have softer water than I have in my
home,
but it's still an improvement and I wouldn't do without it in any home
that
I reside.



If you have your water tested at the tap, then set your softener
accordingly, it should make up for any hardness at the tap, shouldn't it?

rdkapp wrote:

Water softeners are great! We love ours. We have our entire house on
softened water. They do, however, increase salt intake. It is fairly
minimal, but it may not be good for those on a low sodium diet. Check with
your doctor.

I have heard recently that potassium chloride salt is made for use in water
softeners, specifically for people on restricted sodium diets. I've never
seen potassium chloride being sold in Home Depots or Lowes, but you
apparently can get it from salt suppliers. You just have to call around. I
think it's a little more expensive than sodium chloride and I don't know if
there are any special requirements or modifications to be made on the
softener equipment to use potassium chloride.

Good luck!


"Martin Hirsch" wrote in message
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05...

Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or

maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.





Sears sells potassium salt for softeners (about $7.50/40 lb. bag)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:17:19 -0400, Bram Sorgman
wrote:

rdkapp wrote:

Water softeners are great! We love ours. We have our entire house on
softened water. They do, however, increase salt intake. It is fairly
minimal, but it may not be good for those on a low sodium diet. Check with
your doctor.

Depending on the plumbing involved, a possibly simple solution may be
to have a hard water faucet for drinking water.

"Martin Hirsch" wrote in message
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05...


I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or

maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.

Bram Sorgman wrote:

rdkapp wrote:

Water softeners are great! We love ours. We have our entire house on
softened water. They do, however, increase salt intake. It is fairly
minimal, but it may not be good for those on a low sodium diet. Check
with
your doctor.

I have heard recently that potassium chloride salt is made for use in
water
softeners, specifically for people on restricted sodium diets. I've
never
seen potassium chloride being sold in Home Depots or Lowes, but you
apparently can get it from salt suppliers. You just have to call
around. I
think it's a little more expensive than sodium chloride and I don't
know if
there are any special requirements or modifications to be made on the
softener equipment to use potassium chloride.

Good luck!


"Martin Hirsch" wrote in message
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05...

Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many
benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or


maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.





Sears sells potassium salt for softeners (about $7.50/40 lb. bag)

Sears Hardware in CT sells 40lb potassium chloride for $6.29 a bag.
Homedepot also has it but at close to $9 a bag.
A couple of side notes to new water softeners users- reduce the amount
of soap when washing clothes and dishes. Especially automatic
dishwashers. And don't use the temp boost or else you will permanently
etch your glasses with spots. If you are installing a new softener, or
you have not used yours in a few months be prepared for a crap load of
debris to exit the faucets for the first few days. Resist temptation to
wipe the crystals from a ceramic glazed sink or tub as you will only end
up scratching the heck out of the finish as these crystals are very hard.
Get a softener that has a demand feature. It determines the regeneration
rate based on actual usage as opposed to presetting the time between
regenerations based on average conditions.

Alan wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:17:19 -0400, Bram Sorgman
wrote:


rdkapp wrote:


Water softeners are great! We love ours. We have our entire house on
softened water. They do, however, increase salt intake. It is fairly
minimal, but it may not be good for those on a low sodium diet. Check with
your doctor.


Depending on the plumbing involved, a possibly simple solution may be
to have a hard water faucet for drinking water.


"Martin Hirsch" wrote in message
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05...


I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many benefits
but no real negatives other than initial cost, installation,or

maintenance.


Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.


Hi,
Whole house on softner. What kind of plumber plumbs house like that?
Tony

Whole house on softner. What kind of plumber plumbs house like that?

All of them, if they didn't plan on a softener when the house was built. Most
don't.
The solution is to put in an RO after the softener for drinking water.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:L5JIc.2640$od7.597@pd7tw3no...

Hi,
Whole house on softner. What kind of plumber plumbs house like that?
Tony


Other than increased salt intake, which is minimal (I can't taste the salt),
what's wrong with the whole house being on softened water?

A hard water faucet for drinking water or a reverse osmosis on drinking
water are good alternatives.

"Martin Hirsch" wrote in
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05:

Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many
benefits but no real negatives other than initial cost,
installation,or maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.




You'll get many opinions on this. Here's mine...

When we moved to central AZ where the water is very hard, we bought a new
home which had a water softener installed. The entire water system
within the house was fed from the softener, the only exceptions being the
outdoor taps. From this experience we determined that we really didn't
like the feel or taste of soft water. It wasn't a matter of getting used
to it, as we spent nearly five years in that house.

We are currently in a rental with no softener and I'm glad.

Having said that, when we build another home I will specify a water
softener to feed a separate water heater that provides hot water only to
the dishwasher and to the clothes washer, as well as a cold water line to
the clothes washer. We do not like or want softened water both bathing,
cooking, or drinking. I will also specify an RO unit to feed a tap at
the kitchen sink and to the icemaker in the freezer.

The benefits of soft water for dishwashering and clothes washing are
amazing. Our comfort level for any other purpose is -0-.

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Greg wrote:
Whole house on softner. What kind of plumber plumbs house like that?


All of them, if they didn't plan on a softener when the house was built. Most
don't.
The solution is to put in an RO after the softener for drinking water.
Hi,
Here they build houses ready for softener hook up.
Tony

rdkapp wrote:

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:L5JIc.2640$od7.597@pd7tw3no...

Hi,
Whole house on softner. What kind of plumber plumbs house like that?
Tony



Other than increased salt intake, which is minimal (I can't taste the salt),
what's wrong with the whole house being on softened water?

A hard water faucet for drinking water or a reverse osmosis on drinking
water are good alternatives.


Hi,
I guess outside tap as well, Eh?
Tony

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 05:24:27 GMT, Wayne wrote:

"Martin Hirsch" wrote in
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05:

Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many
benefits but no real negatives other than initial cost,
installation,or maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.




You'll get many opinions on this. Here's mine...

When we moved to central AZ where the water is very hard, we bought a new
home which had a water softener installed. The entire water system
within the house was fed from the softener, the only exceptions being the
outdoor taps. From this experience we determined that we really didn't
like the feel or taste of soft water. It wasn't a matter of getting used
to it, as we spent nearly five years in that house.

We are currently in a rental with no softener and I'm glad.

Having said that, when we build another home I will specify a water
softener to feed a separate water heater that provides hot water only to
the dishwasher and to the clothes washer, as well as a cold water line to
the clothes washer. We do not like or want softened water both bathing,
cooking, or drinking. I will also specify an RO unit to feed a tap at
the kitchen sink and to the icemaker in the freezer.

The benefits of soft water for dishwashering and clothes washing are
amazing. Our comfort level for any other purpose is -0-.

Many people, including myself, much prefer the clean you get on
yourself with softened water as well as the cleaner tub, shower or
sink. When my water heater was drained after several years use with
no draining, the water was almost completely clear and crud free.
Toilets work much better than ones supplied by hard water.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 05:24:27 GMT, Wayne wrote:

"Martin Hirsch" wrote in
news:M%hIc.34965$oh.8826@lakeread05:

Hi

I have been researching water softeners and was able to find many
benefits but no real negatives other than initial cost,
installation,or maintenance.

Any information good/bad would be helpful. Thanks.




You'll get many opinions on this. Here's mine...
snippity
The benefits of soft water for dishwashering and clothes washing are
amazing. Our comfort level for any other purpose is -0-.

While i don't dispute that some people dislike softened water, i think
there are many comfort level benefits other than for your appliances.

As you say, many opinions... so here's another. I know the OP said he
already read about the pros and was just looking for cons but it makes
more sence to re-iterate them all. And remember that hard/soft water
is a scale. So one person's hard water won't be as bad/good as
another person's.

Pros:
- Saves your appliances, pipes, showeheads, and faucets. Anything
that has water running through it, and especially if it involves
heating, will end up with that hard water buildup over time.
Sometimes it's visible but sometimes it's in the internal piping and
you won't know about it until it completely blockes waterflow or
bursts a pipe. I don't think any one disputes that softened water is
better for your appliances. But this extends to your taps, and even
the inside of your bathtub and toilet. You know the CLR commercials
that advertize how CLR will remove that calcium buildup from your
bathtub faucet. Well with a water softener you won't get the buildup.
Same goes for toilets. So any pipe, cold or hot, benefits from a
water softener. Just doing the hot water isn't a full solution.

- Much easier on the skin. I don't know the technical reasons for
this but softened water is much 'softer' on your skin. I guess it has
something to do with what minerals are left as the water evaporates.
Hard water tends to leave a dry and itchy sensation on some people.
Softened water doesn't.

- Easier to use with soap. Soft water allows soap/detergent/shampoo
to lather. In hard water you will have a hell of a time getting a
good lather with shampoo or a bar of soap. And if you do dishes in
the sink you'll really notice the difficulty. I've been told that
soft water is much easier on the clothes, meaning they won't wear out
or fade as fast in the washer. I don't know if this is because of the
soft water itself or because you can use less detergent than you would
have to with hard water.

- Makes better tea/coffee. I haven't tested this but it's usually in
the literature for softeners. OR maybe it's just because with hard
water the inside of your coffee/tea maker is already filled with
deposits which flake off when you make your next cup.

Cons:
- Cost, maintenance. Water softeners can be expensive. A more
expensive unit will regenerate less often usually due both to having
more resin and being more sophisticated in determining when it needs
to, instead of just doing it regardless every X days . Better ones
also use less water to regenerate, and use less salt to regenerate.
Other than the inital cost I've had no problems. I buy three 35KG
bags of salt a year at $7Canadian a bag. No other mainteance required
so far.

- Possible sodium intake. Some people think water softeners soften
the water by adding salt. That's not true. The resin removes the
minerals and when the unit 'recharges' it washes the resin with the
salt brine. Some, but not a lot, of salt is left in the resin and
therefore filters it's way into the softened water. As some peopel
said you can use potassium chloride if you are on a low sodium diet.
Or just get a separate hard water tap sent to the kitchen sink for
drinking water. That's what I do. My entire house is softened except
for the kitchen drinking tap and the outside taps.

- Washing soap OFF! Softened water makes soap lather much better.
BUt it also makes it nearly impossible to get the last of that slick
soapy feeling off your hands. It's not horrendously bad but after
doing dishes and rinsing my hands off i usually run them under the
hard drinking water tap for the final rince. I can notice the
difference. Some shampo brands are worse than others when in the
shower too.


Gad that's a long post. The only unavoidable con is if you really
really dislike how hard it is to completely rinse the soap off while
in the shower. But the itchy dry skin feeling from hard water is,
IMHO, much worse so i live with it. Just start using Zest if it
annoys you. Because 'Zest rinses you fully clean" :-)

Kevin

040711 2230 - rdkapp posted:

Water softeners are great! We love ours. We have our entire house on
softened water. They do, however, increase salt intake. It is fairly
minimal, but it may not be good for those on a low sodium diet. Check with
your doctor.


I lived in a subdivision of 52 homes that were fed with a water system that
had two water pumps and wells, both were extremely hard water. When we move
into the house, I found that the water system in the house had a pressure
that was so low that when taking a shower, if someone flushed the toilet,
you were all done taking a shower until the toilet tank filled up. I had
bought a couple of RainBird water sprinklers for watering the lawn and there
wasn't enough water pressure to work those. I checked with a neighbor and
he clued me in. The 3" mains in the street get this orangy pulpy sediment,
and it plugs up the 3/4" taps that go to the houses, and also gets into the
plumbing in the houses. I didn't know this when I bought the house. He
told me that some of the neighbors had their lawns dug up and new lines put
in, costing a few thousand bux. He also told me that he had fixed his own
situation by turning off the main valve in his basement and taking the
plumbing apart and then opening the valve -- which was a gate valve -- and
then pushing a metal electricians fish tape down the length of the line to
the street and cleaning out the line in that way. He said he would help me
do the same. When I opened up the main valve in my basement to shove the
fish tape into it, the water only bubbled up about an inch above the top of
the valve. As we shoved the tape through the pipe, we hit about three
clumps that we had to force the tape through, and with each clump the water
shot up about a foot higher. The last clump was at the street connection
when the water shot up and hit the ceiling joists. We quickly removed the
tape from the pipe and shut off the gate valve. The excess water ran down
into the sump just a little ways away. This was certainly a lot cheaper
than digging up the yard for a new line, and it only took about an hour. I
thanked him for the help, and put the plumbing back together. I had to run
the water in the sink for a few hours after that to get the red pulpy crap
out of the pipes that had settled there, but the water pressure was great.
I'm relating all this as a prelude to what I did following this episode.

I decided to redo the plumbing, installing new copper lines in the house,
which had galvanized pipe. In doing so, I installed, after the main gate
valve, a Cuno water filter with a 20 micron filter cartridge. After that I
had the Culligan water softener. I ran unfiltered water to the two outside
water faucets for watering the lawn. I ran filtered water pipes to the
toilet, and a drinking water tap at the kitchen sink, which was a separate
small faucet beside the main Delta faucet. All the other water in the house
was softened water. It really made a world of difference in washing
clothes, washing hair in the shower, sudsing for bath or shower. And for
drinking water in the kitchen there was no salt added. It tasted like hard
water, but it wasn't distasteful, and it made good coffee water, depending
on individual taste. We got used to it. The Culligan man came once a month
to take out the old and bring in the new. It worked out real well.

An offshoot from that...

I made up a system of brass valves and had a 5000 PSI portable tank with
some flexible fittings and a garden hose. The subdivision suffered greatly
from this water pressure problem, and for a few bux I would relieve their
anxieties by blowing, under extreme pressure, their service water lines back
into the large main, and, therefore, restoring their water pressures in
their homes. I connected the garden hose to the system of valves and would
give the main a jolt with the pressure tank, and then quickly switch the
valves and allow the water to come back and out the garden hose into their
yard, therefore washing out the red pulpy crap from their main water line
under their yard. Sometimes it only took a half hour to clear the water.
One took several hours. The homeowner held the hose and watered his lawn in
the process. When the water became clear, he would shut off the valve.
They were all thankful that this process was available for them and that
they didn't have to spend BigBux and have their lawns tore up. It worked
well all 'round.

That's what I recall from having only rainwater on the farm in my youth.

MB


On 07/13/04 02:02 pm kevins_news2 put fingers to keyboard and launched
the following message into cyberspace:

snip

- Washing soap OFF! Softened water makes soap lather much better.
BUt it also makes it nearly impossible to get the last of that slick
soapy feeling off your hands.

xrongor wrote:
its enough to be of concern to people watching their salt intake.
what ive seen done is what they call a 1/2 and 1/2. put the hot
water on the softener and make it a little softer than normal.
dishes, laundry, showering, etc will get the benefit. OR... put the
whole system on the softener EXCEPT the cold tap in the kitchen and
the ice maker/water tap if the fridge has one.

Good points. But most people who are "watching their salt intake" are doing
so unnecessarily.

The only condition adversely affected by salt is hypertension. 94% of the
population does not have hypertension and of the six percent that do, only
half of those have the type of hypertension that is bothered by salt. Salt
does not CAUSE hypertension.

So, for 97% of the population, eat as much salt as you want.