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#1
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Garage Doors
I have to install new garage doors, but I have no real information on this
subject. Can somebody tell me how I would install insulated garage doors to minimize air leakage? As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. -- George Eberhardt (732)224-8988 |
#2
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Insulation still helps and keeps the garage quieter. Check out Wayne Dalton
garage doors and their IDrive opener for something different though the weatherstripping is typical. Their springs are fully enclosed and the Idrive opener fits above the door instead of having a rail of its own. "George Eberhardt" wrote in message ... I have to install new garage doors, but I have no real information on this subject. Can somebody tell me how I would install insulated garage doors to minimize air leakage? As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. -- George Eberhardt (732)224-8988 |
#3
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George Eberhardt wrote:
I have to install new garage doors, but I have no real information on this subject. Can somebody tell me how I would install insulated garage doors to minimize air leakage? As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. Here in New England garages are considered "outside". There is insulation around the house, but it does not include the garage. You don't really want to pay for heat in a garage. Also, I've heard that allowing snow to melt off your car releases the road salt in it and that eats away your frame and body. It is probably good to allow a bit of air circulation to carry out any moisture in the air, not to mention gas fumes. Finally, minimizing air leakage is hard to do because you open the garage doors regularly. |
#4
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"George Eberhardt" wrote in message ... I have to install new garage doors, but I have no real information on this subject. Can somebody tell me how I would install insulated garage doors to minimize air leakage? As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. -- Just my opinion. No facts to back it up. There is always going to be air leakage around the door. It is the nature of the beast. You must have the gaps for the door to properly operate. Insulation makes them much quieter to operate and in severe climates most likely keeps the frost off the door and helps with the overall garage temp. In 10 years in this house we have only had a few days where the frost formed on the door and the room over the garage was uncomfortable. But this is a pretty moderate climate in the winter (Central KY). If I were farther north I would probably go insulated. Colbyt |
#5
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George Eberhardt wrote:
I have to install new garage doors, but I have no real information on this subject. Can somebody tell me how I would install insulated garage doors to minimize air leakage? As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. In my experience the insulation helps, but don't expect miracles. With a little care you can get a reasonable seal around the door. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#6
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George Eberhardt writes:
As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. Yours is a typical misunderstanding. Garages are cost-effective because they control humidity, not temperature. The real enemy to your car is a condensing atmosphere, which a garage mostly eliminates, even if unheated and even if uninsulated. Ordinary jamb seals and panel seals work fine to eliminate infiltration of damp outside air. The amortized cost of a garage is less than the amortized cost of corrosion to your ungaraged-vs-garaged car, for typical cases of "garage" and "car". So it typically *costs* you money *not* to have a garage. |
#7
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Richard J Kinch wrote:
George Eberhardt writes: As far as I can see, the installations are so bad that there is no point in paying for insulation. Yours is a typical misunderstanding. Garages are cost-effective because they control humidity, not temperature. The real enemy to your car is a condensing atmosphere, which a garage mostly eliminates, even if unheated and even if uninsulated. Ordinary jamb seals and panel seals work fine to eliminate infiltration of damp outside air. The amortized cost of a garage is less than the amortized cost of corrosion to your ungaraged-vs-garaged car, for typical cases of "garage" and "car". While you generally will save on insurance and maybe increase resale value and may protect the paint from sun damage with a garage; in the snow belt, you will generally cause more corrosion damage with a garage. Keeping the car below the freeze point will keep the salt and water inactive. Putting it in a garage, which will generally be warmer, will warm it above the freeze point and corrosion will start. So it typically *costs* you money *not* to have a garage. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#8
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Joseph Meehan writes:
Putting it in a garage, which will generally be warmer, will warm it above the freeze point and corrosion will start. An unheated garage will not be thawed with outside freezing more than a few days per year, for one season. The differential is a few degrees and the outside ambient must be within that narrow range. Depends on the local climate how often this is the case. But a garage *will* avoid a condensing atmosphere, for many, many days per year, all year long. The "freezing avoids corrosion" thesis also is questionable. Condensing vs non-condensing has to be many times more effective than freezing vs thawed, as regards not promoting corrosion. |
#9
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Richard J Kinch wrote:
Joseph Meehan writes: Putting it in a garage, which will generally be warmer, will warm it above the freeze point and corrosion will start. An unheated garage will not be thawed with outside freezing more than a few days per year, for one season. The differential is a few degrees and the outside ambient must be within that narrow range. Depends on the local climate how often this is the case. This really depends on a number of factors. However you need to consider that the car when put back into the garage is going to contain a lot of heat that will warm the garage. In my experience that very often brings it above freezing. But a garage *will* avoid a condensing atmosphere, for many, many days per year, all year long. The "freezing avoids corrosion" thesis also is questionable. Condensing vs non-condensing has to be many times more effective than freezing vs thawed, as regards not promoting corrosion. I disagree here as well, although again that may be dependent on the local conditions. When a car is driven into a garage wet, the garage tends to hold in the moisture for an extended period so often even on a nice warm dry day the inside of a garage is still damp as the dry air can not remove the moisture. Again however I would caution anyone from reading too much into this part of the issue. I don't believe the difference between garage or not garage is a major corrosion issue with cars. When it is a noticeable factor, I believe it may go either way. There are just too many individual differences to draw any certain conclusions. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#10
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Joseph Meehan writes:
When a car is driven into a garage wet, the garage tends to hold in the moisture for an extended period so often even on a nice warm dry day the inside of a garage is still damp as the dry air can not remove the moisture. Come on. We're talking about outdoors, soggy wet with dew nearly every night, vs a garage, perhaps more or less humid, but rarely condensing. Again however I would caution anyone from reading too much into this part of the issue. I don't believe the difference between garage or not garage is a major corrosion issue with cars. When it is a noticeable factor, I believe it may go either way. There are just too many individual differences to draw any certain conclusions. Park your car outside, it gets wet through-and-through by condensing vapor intrusion nearly every night. That's murder for corrosion. I've lived with and without garages for a while. No doubt in my mind of the value of garaging. |
#11
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In New England, garages speed corrosion.
I always wanted to believe that, before I could afford a garage. It comforts you when you're out on the street scraping off snow and ice, despite the fact that as corrosion goes, drier (garage) beats cooler (outdoors). |
#12
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I realize science doesn't agree with you.
Correct, if by "science" you mean credulous endorsement of popular falsehoods. Rain falls in teardrop shapes, electrons orbit in circles, centrifugal forces keep your bicycle balanced, humidity is relative, and leaving your car outdoors is good for it. Or so sez the guy who got his "science" from a public school. If by "science" you mean critical thinking applied to actual observations with mathematical analysis, I haven't seen any from you, so I can't say whether I agree with it or not. |
#13
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True or false: chemical reactions are faster at higher temperatures
and slower at lower temperatures. Salt corrosion is largely an aqueous phenomenon. It's plenty hot and salty in the deserts of the southwest US, but that is exactly where the airline industry wisely parks its mothballed aircraft, to minimize corrosion. Because it is warm and DRY. "Thermodynamics proposes, kinetics disposes." [Uncle Al] |
#14
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Subject: Garage Doors
Newsgroup: alt.home.repair = = wrote: True or false: chemical reactions are faster at higher temperatures and slower at lower temperatures. What kind of question is that? That makes no sense. -- -Graham Remove the snails to email ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#16
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The anonymous coward writes:
True or false: chemical reactions are faster at higher temperatures and slower at lower temperatures. Salt corrosion is largely an aqueous phenomenon. It's plenty hot and salty in the deserts of the southwest US, but that is exactly where the airline industry wisely parks its mothballed aircraft, to minimize corrosion. Because it is warm and DRY. True or false: chemical reactions are faster at higher temperatures and slower at lower temperatures. Which reactions? Some are, some aren't. How much higher or lower in temp? One percent warmer in an unheated garage? You think that matters? Aqueous kinetics have more to do with corrosion rates than temperature, and the differential exposure is overwhelming. |
#17
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Joe M is right as he usualy is , but it depends on the area, location,
sun exposure etc and the Garage, mine had no vents and held moisture, now I put them in and it is great. Overall a dry garage reduces rubber rot, sun exposure and moisture damage- we must include good garages, built for cars in this equasion , many are crap-many are good. A car in a good garage will last longer, in a crap garage less. Few are equal |
#18
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m Ransley wrote:
Joe M is right as he usualy is , but it depends on the area, location, sun exposure etc and the Garage, mine had no vents and held moisture, now I put them in and it is great. Overall a dry garage reduces rubber rot, sun exposure and moisture damage- we must include good garages, built for cars in this equasion , many are crap-many are good. A car in a good garage will last longer, in a crap garage less. Few are equal Yes. But the question is what defines a good garage. You didn't say whether the temp should be above or below freezing. |
#19
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The car rarely gets the chance to dry out completely.
You claimed this before, and I won't repeat my rebuttal. |
#20
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As I said, asked and answered.
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