I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

"Jim" wrote in message
...
I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim


we have a 36k BTU vent free in our basement. we picked it out and had a
plumber install the flexible gas line and make the proper connections. we
had a 2" piece of limestone cut as a base to keep it off the floor in case
of water in the future and it makes a nice look.

it works great and for safety sake, we bought a carbon monoxide dector to
keep near the living area,and keep a fire extinguisher at the bottom of the
stairs, just in case.
we also keep an osillating fan to keep the air moving in the basement and
distribute the warm air around nicely.

good luck and i think it's a great idea,

mike...........

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

I agree. I would never buy an item like that for my home that had so many
"cautions" and were not to be used in a bedroom. Use a vented one.


"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

we've never had a problem w/ ours and it's 99 or 99.9% efficient. we keep a
carbon monoxide dector in a central spot and it's never activated in the 3
or 4 years the fireplace has been in use. but to each their own, i feel
completely safe and would never have bought it if there was a safety issue
especially since my kids play downstairs all the time.

mike...........

I agree three!
Non-vented gas fireplaces, wall heaters are noy allowed in our city.
Get a vented unit!
Greg


"Art" wrote in message
link.net...
I agree. I would never buy an item like that for my home that had so many
"cautions" and were not to be used in a bedroom. Use a vented one.


"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

Bubba's point is well taken. I removed regular gas logs and replaced them
with the "ventless". After about an hour of operation the smoke/fire alarm
in the room (great room, 500+ ft/sq) alarms. Not the new wearing off the
logs, either. I've tried it a few times when power was lost.
So.... there's something in the air and it and Christmas.
If I had it to do over I'd have the original logs and more money in my
pocket.
Ken



"Jim" wrote in message
...
I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace from
home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

On 12/23/2004 8:11 PM US(ET), Ken took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:

Bubba's point is well taken. I removed regular gas logs and replaced them
with the "ventless". After about an hour of operation the smoke/fire alarm
in the room (great room, 500+ ft/sq) alarms. Not the new wearing off the
logs, either. I've tried it a few times when power was lost.
So.... there's something in the air and it and Christmas.
If I had it to do over I'd have the original logs and more money in my
pocket.
Ken



I put a vent-free propane fireplace in my 400 sq ft sunroom. I also
installed a smoke and CO detector in there.
It's been there for 2-1/2 winters and no alarm for either smoke or CO.
It does put a hazy film on the window glass though.



"Jim" wrote in message
...


I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace from
home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim








--
Bill

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

we've never had a problem w/ ours and it's 99 or 99.9% efficient. we keep a
carbon monoxide dector in a central spot and it's never activated in the 3
or 4 years the fireplace has been in use. but to each their own, i feel
completely safe and would never have bought it if there was a safety issue
especially since my kids play downstairs all the time.

mike...........


This is Turtle.

You maybe talking about a different animal here. You probley have a Ventless
Panel Ray heater and they are talking about Just a Ventless gas heater with a
blue flame no panel ray type heater. I would not want any ventless gas heater in
my house that has a blue flame in it. The only one I would accept is a Flameless
Pannel Ray heater with NO flame at all but a 5,000ºF to 8,000ºF glowing ceramic
pannel to glow and put off heat rays. It is 99.992% fuel effencent heater and
has no flame and no CO for it burns so hot that no carbon can be left at the
5,000ºF to 8,000ºF ceramic grid that the gas burns in. It burns at 3 time a
cutting torch temperature burns at. The Temp can be more that 8,000ºF for it
burn at a color of white and not blue, red or other colors of heat. When a flame
burns at white it leave NO carbon when it burns. So you can't have CO because it
burns all the Carbon up in the ceramic fire grid and with all the carbon gone
the O will attach it'self to the nearest H and form water vapor in the air. Now
there will be very little of this left of the O for the grid is so hot it burns
the O up also.

You just don't vent something that gives off NO CO at all. The all the warning
is to keep it safe to watch out for. Now the leaving the window open is to keep
it from cutting off during the nite when the Oxygen level drops below normal in
the room. With the Oxygen level shut down set up you just can't burn up all the
oxygen in the room with it or it will just turn off. I have checked out the
Oxygen sencer on them and it is just about fail safe for it's design.

I would have to say Panel Ray Ceramic type Flameless heaters are good in a no
vent room. Now anyother type would not be acceptiable at all. A blue flame will
burn with a maybe high as as a 400 ppm CO content but the Panel Ray heater burns
with a ZERO ppm out put of CO. Now the .002% fuel eff. rating or waisted fuel is
there for the blue flame of the pilot lite that burns blue and not white hot.

TURTLE

We replaced gas logs with a vented insert with ceramic glass. Now that was
one heck of an improvement and I highly recommend it. The gas logs ate gas
and gave off very little heat. THe insert is 85% efficient even though
vented and the cat loves it. Don't even see it in the gas bills and if you
have a blackout it will still run without the fan. Make sure it comes with
ceramic and not tempered glass.


"Ken" wrote in message
link.net...
Bubba's point is well taken. I removed regular gas logs and replaced them
with the "ventless". After about an hour of operation the smoke/fire alarm
in the room (great room, 500+ ft/sq) alarms. Not the new wearing off the
logs, either. I've tried it a few times when power was lost.
So.... there's something in the air and it and Christmas.
If I had it to do over I'd have the original logs and more money in my
pocket.
Ken



"Jim" wrote in message
...
I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

we've never had a problem w/ ours and it's 99 or 99.9% efficient. we
keep a
carbon monoxide dector in a central spot and it's never activated in the
3
or 4 years the fireplace has been in use. but to each their own, i
feel
completely safe and would never have bought it if there was a safety
issue
especially since my kids play downstairs all the time.

mike...........


This is Turtle.

You maybe talking about a different animal here. You probley have a
Ventless
Panel Ray heater and they are talking about Just a Ventless gas heater
with a
blue flame no panel ray type heater. I would not want any ventless gas
heater in
my house that has a blue flame in it. The only one I would accept is a
Flameless
Pannel Ray heater with NO flame at all but a 5,000ºF to 8,000ºF glowing
ceramic
pannel to glow and put off heat rays. It is 99.992% fuel effencent heater
and
has no flame and no CO for it burns so hot that no carbon can be left at
the
5,000ºF to 8,000ºF ceramic grid that the gas burns in. It burns at 3 time
a
cutting torch temperature burns at. The Temp can be more that 8,000ºF for
it
burn at a color of white and not blue, red or other colors of heat. When a
flame
burns at white it leave NO carbon when it burns. So you can't have CO
because it
burns all the Carbon up in the ceramic fire grid and with all the carbon
gone
the O will attach it'self to the nearest H and form water vapor in the
air. Now
there will be very little of this left of the O for the grid is so hot it
burns
the O up also.

You just don't vent something that gives off NO CO at all. The all the
warning
is to keep it safe to watch out for. Now the leaving the window open is
to keep
it from cutting off during the nite when the Oxygen level drops below
normal in
the room. With the Oxygen level shut down set up you just can't burn up
all the
oxygen in the room with it or it will just turn off. I have checked out
the
Oxygen sencer on them and it is just about fail safe for it's design.

I would have to say Panel Ray Ceramic type Flameless heaters are good in a
no
vent room. Now anyother type would not be acceptiable at all. A blue flame
will
burn with a maybe high as as a 400 ppm CO content but the Panel Ray heater
burns
with a ZERO ppm out put of CO. Now the .002% fuel eff. rating or waisted
fuel is
there for the blue flame of the pilot lite that burns blue and not white
hot.

TURTLE



we have a Temco freestanding 99.9% efficient natural gas burning fireplace,
w/ a oxygen depletation sensor built in. it works great it has never caused
a single headache or made anyone feel sick in any way. it burns clean and
there is nothing i would say has ever cause us to feel unsafe. it makes a
natural looking fire from the burners.

all ican say is for this guy to do his homework and decide for himself, but
there are plenty of excellent products on the market, but maybe Homedepot or
Lowes wouldn't be the place to make a final decision.

mike...........

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:24:24 -0500, willshak
wrote:

On 12/23/2004 8:11 PM US(ET), Ken took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:

Bubba's point is well taken. I removed regular gas logs and replaced them
with the "ventless". After about an hour of operation the smoke/fire alarm
in the room (great room, 500+ ft/sq) alarms. Not the new wearing off the
logs, either. I've tried it a few times when power was lost.
So.... there's something in the air and it and Christmas.
If I had it to do over I'd have the original logs and more money in my
pocket.
Ken



I put a vent-free propane fireplace in my 400 sq ft sunroom. I also
installed a smoke and CO detector in there.
It's been there for 2-1/2 winters and no alarm for either smoke or CO.
It does put a hazy film on the window glass though.


and what kind of haze do you think is now in your lungs?
Bubba

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:11:47 GMT, "JerseyMike"
wrote:


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Jim, BEFORE you purchase a vent free unit, Take a look at the first
page of instructions that comes with the unit. In short it tells you
to open the window when you are using it! Many Many warnings and
cautions in there. They may burn "clean" (I would debate that) but why
would you burn a gas appliance and let the combustion products go into
your home? Do yourself a favor and get a VENTED unit. I wouldnt have
anything "ventless" in my home. A gas stove with and exhaust hood is
bad enough.
Bubba

we've never had a problem w/ ours and it's 99 or 99.9% efficient. we
keep a
carbon monoxide dector in a central spot and it's never activated in the
3
or 4 years the fireplace has been in use. but to each their own, i
feel
completely safe and would never have bought it if there was a safety
issue
especially since my kids play downstairs all the time.

mike...........


This is Turtle.

You maybe talking about a different animal here. You probley have a
Ventless
Panel Ray heater and they are talking about Just a Ventless gas heater
with a
blue flame no panel ray type heater. I would not want any ventless gas
heater in
my house that has a blue flame in it. The only one I would accept is a
Flameless
Pannel Ray heater with NO flame at all but a 5,000ºF to 8,000ºF glowing
ceramic
pannel to glow and put off heat rays. It is 99.992% fuel effencent heater
and
has no flame and no CO for it burns so hot that no carbon can be left at
the
5,000ºF to 8,000ºF ceramic grid that the gas burns in. It burns at 3 time
a
cutting torch temperature burns at. The Temp can be more that 8,000ºF for
it
burn at a color of white and not blue, red or other colors of heat. When a
flame
burns at white it leave NO carbon when it burns. So you can't have CO
because it
burns all the Carbon up in the ceramic fire grid and with all the carbon
gone
the O will attach it'self to the nearest H and form water vapor in the
air. Now
there will be very little of this left of the O for the grid is so hot it
burns
the O up also.

You just don't vent something that gives off NO CO at all. The all the
warning
is to keep it safe to watch out for. Now the leaving the window open is
to keep
it from cutting off during the nite when the Oxygen level drops below
normal in
the room. With the Oxygen level shut down set up you just can't burn up
all the
oxygen in the room with it or it will just turn off. I have checked out
the
Oxygen sencer on them and it is just about fail safe for it's design.

I would have to say Panel Ray Ceramic type Flameless heaters are good in a
no
vent room. Now anyother type would not be acceptiable at all. A blue flame
will
burn with a maybe high as as a 400 ppm CO content but the Panel Ray heater
burns
with a ZERO ppm out put of CO. Now the .002% fuel eff. rating or waisted
fuel is
there for the blue flame of the pilot lite that burns blue and not white
hot.

TURTLE


I
we have a Temco freestanding 99.9% efficient natural gas burning fireplace,
w/ a oxygen depletation sensor built in. it works great it has never caused
a single headache or made anyone feel sick in any way. it burns clean and
there is nothing i would say has ever cause us to feel unsafe. it makes a
natural looking fire from the burners.

all ican say is for this guy to do his homework and decide for himself, but
there are plenty of excellent products on the market, but maybe Homedepot or
Lowes wouldn't be the place to make a final decision.

mike...........


While we are on the subject lets just look at those so called carbon
monoxide detectors.
Here is a good place for info and they sell CO detectors too.
http://www.coexperts.com/
NO, I have no interest in the company. Just read the first line of
info on the first page. A UL listing isnt always a good thing.
ANDDDDD, while we are making assumptions that "it works great and
never has caused a headache or problem"...........
I know people that have worked with asbestos for years and smoked for
years, then one day they mysteriously have cancer and soon die a
horrible death from it.
Id say again, Id never burn a gas appliance in my home that is NOT
VENTED (other than a gas cooking stove with a vented hood). The by
products of natural gas, propane, oil, coal, wood and whatever else
you want to burn does NOT belong in a home for you to be exposed to.
Bubba

"Bubba" wrote in message
...


While we are on the subject lets just look at those so called carbon
monoxide detectors.
Here is a good place for info and they sell CO detectors too.
http://www.coexperts.com/
NO, I have no interest in the company. Just read the first line of
info on the first page. A UL listing isnt always a good thing.
ANDDDDD, while we are making assumptions that "it works great and
never has caused a headache or problem"...........
I know people that have worked with asbestos for years and smoked for
years, then one day they mysteriously have cancer and soon die a
horrible death from it.
Id say again, Id never burn a gas appliance in my home that is NOT
VENTED (other than a gas cooking stove with a vented hood). The by
products of natural gas, propane, oil, coal, wood and whatever else
you want to burn does NOT belong in a home for you to be exposed to.
Bubba


that's your choice, but it doesn't mean it's right.....or wrong.


mike..........

"JerseyMike" wrote

that's your choice, but it doesn't mean it's right.....or wrong.

I'll agree with you Mike.

I understand everyone else's concern about them, but I have had mine for
well over 10 years now and have never had a problem with it giving off an
odor, or setting the CO detector OR the smoke alarm off. It IS in a firplace
with the damper closed.

The only problem I see with it is trying to get a regulator for the tank.
You can't buy them at Lowe's or Home Depot and I can almost guarantee you
that the local gas company will not sell them too you......

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:44:13 -0600, Jim wrote:

I would like to know what is involved in install a vent free fireplace
from home depot or lowes in my basement.

thanks

jim

Depends upon your location and what you mean by "vent free"

48 (49?) states now allow un vented gas heaters in some situations if they
are equipped with an oxygen depletion sensor). These have been in use in
Europe for over 40 years and have a very good safety record.

The sensor is a specially designed pilot/thermocouple assembly very
sensitive to oxygen supply. They also are made of ceramic such than any
attempt to modify them will destroy them.

In most states, they can not be used as primary heat and they have an
altitude limitation. Above 5000' or so, oxygen is depleted!

MA just adopted the accepted code this year allowing the, but added
restrictions.

In MA, they can't be used in bedrooms, most states restrict bedrooms to
10,000 BTU max. Also, MA requires a CO detector to be installed AND
maintained in each room with an un vented heater.

So air quality pretty much comes down to the quality of the fuel. CO has
been well addressed.

Contrary to some posts, the new code does NOT require an open window. That
was for pre ODS units.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots