We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Thanks,
Jeff

if he's giving you that option do go 20a wire&brkrs,,, probably well under a
buck per foot extra. brkr is same price

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Thanks,
Jeff

In article , Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

I believe 20A breakers cost nearly enough the same as 15A ones and 12AWG
wire is only a little more expensive than 14AWG.
I strongly recommend to not cheap out. I believe that current code for
new construction permits 15A capability as opposed to 20A only for lines
dedicated to specific loads. As in no outlets, or one outlet (which
should be for a specific load that does not draw more than 15A) plus no
other loads. I could be off a little, but I believe 15A is a "cheap out"
permitted in a few specific instances.

However, I have yet to hear of a code requirement to upgrade existing
15A circuits that were installed when code permitted them. Just have the
breakerbox/fusebox have adequate labeling that the circuits in question
are 15A circuits - especially if there are fuses rather than breakers.

Local building codes may have exceptions - please know the requirements
if you sell your house.

- Don Klipstein )

Around here it is #12 and 20 amp breakers for all outlets, #14 and 15 amp
breakers for "typical" lighting. The differance in price is little.
Greg

The only reason to use 14 (other than saving a couple dollars of course) is
that it is a little easier to work with; and that only matter if you have a
particularly difficult installation.

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Thanks,
Jeff


#12 cable costs almost twice as much as #14, but it's such a small part
of the total cost it's the wrong place to try to save money. Use 20A
breakers and #12 wire for any branch circuit that has even one receptacle.

You can use #14 cable and 15A breakers for the lighting circuits to save
a little money and make it easier to wire.

BTW, those 39¢ duplex receptacles are false economy for any outlets that
you will actually use very often -- they wear out, so pay an extra
dollar and use heavy-duty 15A receptacles. I think they call them "spec
grade". You really don't need 20A receptacles for anything residential
(except maybe a dedicated circuit for a big window air conditioner.)

Just my opinions,
Bob

In article ,
Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:
We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.
- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?
- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?
- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Cost difference: Minimal. It's only the wire, and that is a small
fraction of total cost.

Someone who has a little spare time should go through the calculation
of the resistive loss of 14-gauge versus 12-gauge wire (which is
quadratic in current, so mostly matters for heavily loaded circuits).
I vaguely remember calculating that before we built the house, and
concluding that assuming constant energy usage (motors with constant
load or constant brightness demand from illumination), it would save
about 3% of the electricity to use 12-gauge wire, if a circuit is
highly loaded (something like 80% of breaker rating).

I would always go with 12-gauge wiring for receptacle circuits.
Otherwise, you'll more easily get into a situation where a breaker
trips because you plugged in a space heater, or are using a blow dryer
for some craft project while the toaster is going, or something like
that. Also reduces annoying flickering of lights when big appliances
turn off and on.

On the other hand, I would usually go with 14-gauge wiring for
lighting circuits, just because the stuff is easier to work with
(easier to make up boxes, easier to wire neatly, and don't have to use
such large boxes).

Matter-of-fact, I would always wire receptacle circuits on a separate
breaker from lighting circuits. Like that you can work on one of them
and use the other one to have lights. Say your kid breaks the
receptacle in his room on a winter evening, and you have to fix it
before bedtime (because the baby monitor has to be plugged into it).
Or you are working on installing a new light fixture on a dark
afternoon. This is easy to do if each room can be illuminated from
two different circuits (with a portable plug-in worklight for the
second case), without having to resort to extension cords.

So this is exactly what we did when we built the house: All receptacle
circuits are 12-gauge with 20A breakers. The lighting circuits are
mostly 14-gauge with 15A breakers. In some cases, I actually used
12-gauge wire for parts of lighting circuits with "big" lights (like
the 200W exterior floodlights), just to make sure resistive losses are
minimal.

Along the same lines: When wiring a shop area, go one size larger on
the wires (even if that means having to wire the tablesaw outlet with
8 gauge wire, which is really nasty to work with). If you ever
upgrade your tools (buy a larger welder, or a 5HP tablesaw) you'll be
glad you did. And, whenever stringing wire for a pure 220V outlet
(for example for a dryer or a motor), use 4-wire cable (which is
confusingly called something like 10-3) and run a neutral wire. If
you ever have to change the circuit for something entirely different,
you'll be glad you don't have to replace the wire in the wall. For
example, we changed a laundry room into an office area, and turned the
220V 30A dryer outlet there into a dedicated computer circuit, reusing
the existing 10-3 wire for a single 20A circuit (removed the dryer
outlet, put a regular 120V outlet in, removed the 30A two-pole
breaker, and used just the black and white wires with a regular 20A
breaker).

Some other posters suggested using spec-grade receptacles. Excellent
idea. I don't know what the difference between spec-grade and
commercial grade is (or if there is any), but I find working with
reasonable quality hardware (like good commercial receptacles) much
more pleasant.

In a related post, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
I strongly recommend to not cheap out. I believe that current
code for new construction permits 15A capability as opposed to 20A
only for lines dedicated to specific loads. As in no outlets, or
one outlet (which should be for a specific load that does not draw
more than 15A) plus no other loads. I could be off a little, but I
believe 15A is a "cheap out" permitted in a few specific instances.

I completely agree on the sentiment. But to my knowledge, the
national code (NEC) does still allow 15A circuits for all manners of
uses. Matter-of-fact, I know of nothing in the code that would
prevent someone from running very odd things (like 6A or 10A circuits
for lighting), as long as the load calculation for these circuits are
OK. Regular 120V 15A outlets (the usual ones) can only be put on 15A
and 20A circuits, and kitchens and bathrooms require a certain number
of dedicated 20A circuits. But, as far as I know, it is still legal
to use 15A circuits for lighting (which I think is a good idea), and
for receptacles (which I happen to think is a bad idea).

Has that changed recently?

--
The address in the header is invalid for obvious reasons. Please
reconstruct the address from the information below (look for _).
Ralph Becker-Szendy

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

Any difference in price between #12 an #14 wire should be minimal; e.g.. a
few cents per foot. Breakers prob. identical price.
Also; if you have a situation where you may need more capacity than a 20 amp
circuit can handle, this might typically be a kitchen area, a suggestion.
Instead of two wire (White?Black plus ground) #12 install three wire
(White/Black/Red plus ground) #12. This will allow all the outlets on that
run or perhaps just one or two important ones to be 'split'. That is each
outlet can be wired so that the upper half of a duplex connected to one leg
of the supply and the lower half to the other leg of the supply thus
doubling the capacity of the circuit. The additional cost of the third
conductor will be small. The only other cost will be that of a two-pole
breaker in place of a single pole breaker.

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can add
up to a big savings and more profit!

If I was a developer building my *own* home, all 120 V outlets and lighting
would be 20 amp with 12 ga. wire.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can
add
up to a big savings and more profit!

If I was a developer building my *own* home, all 120 V outlets and
lighting
would be 20 amp with 12 ga. wire.



Electrical contractors save $$ by using the 14 ga backstabs (these things
suck) on the outlets. No more 12 ga ones made.

Around here it is #12 and 20 amp breakers for all outlets, #14 and 15 amp
breakers for "typical" lighting.

I would also do it this way.

Eric Ryder wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can
add
up to a big savings and more profit!

If I was a developer building my *own* home, all 120 V outlets and
lighting
would be 20 amp with 12 ga. wire.




Electrical contractors save $$ by using the 14 ga backstabs (these things
suck) on the outlets. No more 12 ga ones made.




There *are* 12 gauge ones made in "spec grade" (Ten gauge, actually.) I
really like them. You stab the wire in the back and then tighten the
side screw to clamp it in place. It's almost as fast as the old
spring-loaded stab connectors, but it's reversible and it's at least as
secure as the side screw terminals. But they cost over $1 per device.

Bob

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Thanks,
Jeff

I used 12 gauge and 20A breakers for every general purpose circuit in my
house. The extra cost is minimal and you can never have too much
electrical capacity. And even if a few circuits are underutilized, that
will bother you a lot less than the one or two that keep tripping the
breaker.


Matt

zxcvbob wrote:

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Thanks,
Jeff



#12 cable costs almost twice as much as #14, but it's such a small part
of the total cost it's the wrong place to try to save money. Use 20A
breakers and #12 wire for any branch circuit that has even one receptacle.

I just checked Lowe's and they are $21.50 for 14 and $30.50 for 12, more
like 50% more rather than 100%.


Matt

Bill wrote:

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can add
up to a big savings and more profit!

This is true with the typical ignorant home buyer, but folks like me
wouldn't buy your house so your profit would be negative! :-) And when
I saw the panel full of 15A breakers, I'd know you were a second or
third tier builder and wonder what other corners you had cut.


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Thanks,
Jeff




#12 cable costs almost twice as much as #14, but it's such a small
part of the total cost it's the wrong place to try to save money. Use
20A breakers and #12 wire for any branch circuit that has even one
receptacle.


I just checked Lowe's and they are $21.50 for 14 and $30.50 for 12, more
like 50% more rather than 100%.


Matt




It was $15 and $25 last time I bought any...

All the more reason to use #12 -- the savings is not that much to pay
for the added capacity.

Bob

From: "Terry"



"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...

We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.


Any difference in price between #12 an #14 wire should be minimal; e.g.. a
few cents per foot. Breakers prob. identical price.

Also; if you have a situation where you may need more capacity than a 20 amp
circuit can handle, this might typically be a kitchen area, a suggestion.

Instead of two wire (White?Black plus ground) #12 install three wire
(White/Black/Red plus ground) #12. This will allow all the outlets on that
run or perhaps just one or two important ones to be 'split'. That is each
outlet can be wired so that the upper half of a duplex connected to one leg
of the supply and the lower half to the other leg of the supply thus
doubling the capacity of the circuit. The additional cost of the third
conductor will be small. The only other cost will be that of a two-pole
breaker in place of a single pole breaker.

It won't be small. First, any box within that circuit will probably have to be
oversized from standard, since you now have 2 additional conductors in every
box you spliced through.

You'll use more wirenuts. :-)

And the worst is - 3 wire cable in either 14 or 12 guage is almost always
exactly double the price of it's 2-wire version. Now you're paying 100% more
for the cable but getting only 33% more copper conductor. And that really
****es me off.

You'd be better off running more 2-wire circuits and putting fewer outlets on
each if extra capacity is what you're after.

Another method would be to use only 3-wire for the "homeruns" and make sure
each circuit of outlets is fed middle-of-the-run. Leave the red as a spare and
if some time in the future needs be, you can always split that circuit into 2
equal separate circuits without running 3-wire cable all over the place.

From: Matt Whiting


Bill wrote:

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can add
up to a big savings and more profit!



This is true with the typical ignorant home buyer,

What is the % of homes wired with 15a circuits as the norm as allowed by code,
usually within developments by builders, (all apparently owned by
"ignoramases") as opposed to the % of the fantasy "spec grade" home you live in
or would only consider?

but folks like me
wouldn't buy your house so your profit would be negative! :-) And when
I saw the panel full of 15A breakers, I'd know you were a second or
third tier builder and wonder what other corners you had cut.


Matt

Wow, a top-of-the-line "1st tier custom homebuilder." We're dancing with the
electrical construction Gods now... Excuse me while I get back to wiring the
new World Trade Center.

Which by the way, has 15a lighting circuits.

HA HA Budys Here wrote:

Excuse me while I get back to wiring the new World Trade Center.

Which by the way, has 15a lighting circuits.



Well, yeah, at 277V. I'm not sure that means anything.

Best regards,
Bob

And when
I saw the panel full of 15A breakers, I'd know you were a second or
third tier builder

I would be more concerned if they were all 20s. That is the cheap way to get
your 3va per square foot. Less circuits are required.

Bill wrote:

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can add
up to a big savings and more profit!

If I was a developer building my *own* home, all 120 V outlets and lighting
would be 20 amp with 12 ga. wire.


Well then, you wouldn't be much of a business man or promoter. Look
at all they hype you could get if you said all the wiring was 12 gauge
and heavier than the normal house. The extra few buck per house,
would be worth a lot of money in advertising.

I also would select (have for add ons) 12 gauge wire for my house, but
there is no reason to put in all 20 amp breakers. Certainly there is
no reason for most lighting circuits. How often would one have more
than 1800 watts of lighting on a circuit; that eighteen 100 watt
lights. A better alternative is more circuits.

George E. Cawthon wrote:


Bill wrote:

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can add
up to a big savings and more profit!

If I was a developer building my *own* home, all 120 V outlets and lighting
would be 20 amp with 12 ga. wire.



Well then, you wouldn't be much of a business man or promoter. Look
at all they hype you could get if you said all the wiring was 12 gauge
and heavier than the normal house. The extra few buck per house,
would be worth a lot of money in advertising.

I also would select (have for add ons) 12 gauge wire for my house, but
there is no reason to put in all 20 amp breakers. Certainly there is
no reason for most lighting circuits. How often would one have more
than 1800 watts of lighting on a circuit; that eighteen 100 watt
lights. A better alternative is more circuits.

Why not put in 20A breakers? 15A and 20A cost the same. Making the
home owner buy another breaker to fully utilize the capacity of the wire
is just dumb.


Matt

Building more capacity than is required is a waste of resources. Same
mentality as driving a vehicle with bad mileage for no compelling
reason. There is so little conservation in most houses. With
fluoresant lighting, 10 amp breakers would be overkill. When people
start paying 25 cents and up a KWH maybe there will be some forced
common sense.

dave wrote:

Building more capacity than is required is a waste of resources. Same
mentality as driving a vehicle with bad mileage for no compelling
reason. There is so little conservation in most houses. With
fluoresant lighting, 10 amp breakers would be overkill. When people
start paying 25 cents and up a KWH maybe there will be some forced
common sense.

Not at all. It is all a matter of your time horizon. Most houses will
last at least 100 years if properly maintained. The electrical wiring
will likely last at least 50 years before needing replacement. You have
no way to know what the load requirements will be in 10 years, let alone
50 years. Kitchens built 50 years ago had plenty of ampacity for the
needs then, but their wiring is now woefully inadequate for a modern
suite of appliances. It is almost certain that electrical needs will
increase rather than decrease, even with more efficient appliances and
lighting. Providing more than just the bare minimum capacity for
today's needs is not at all wasteful as it costs a lot more resources to
retrofit later. And, as another poster already pointed out, the lower
IsquaredR loss in the heavier wire actually saves energy and money over
the long haul.


Matt

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:21:02 -0400, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Bill wrote:

If I was a developer building 50 new homes, I would want to cut expenses
anywhere possible and install 14 ga. wire/15 amp everywhere unless 12
ga./20 amp was required by code. A few dollars saved times 50 homes can add
up to a big savings and more profit!

This is true with the typical ignorant home buyer, but folks like me
wouldn't buy your house so your profit would be negative! :-) And when
I saw the panel full of 15A breakers, I'd know you were a second or
third tier builder and wonder what other corners you had cut.


Matt

Most new homes come with a panel full of 15A breakers...plus a bunch
of 20A...and some 30s, 50's, etc.

Most new homes sell.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

On 29 Oct 2004 01:24:27 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

The electrical wiring
will likely last at least 50 years before needing replacement. You have
no way to know what the load requirements will be in 10 years



I think the technology is going toward lower current, not higher The HVAC
system will probably be drawing half of what it did in 1980 for the same house
right now. People are warming up to flourecents, TVs are a big lamp now..

Even motors are using less energy than in the past.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:19:19 GMT, ender (Jeffrey
J. Kosowsky) wrote:


We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one put
in 20A "just in case"?

Go with 15A. The wire is much easier to work with...especially if yer
chaining from one recpt to the next. And you can back wire them with
standard recepts...which you can do with #12 wire. Its easier to get
all that wire in a duplex box if its 14 wire.

You might consider getting Arc breakers...which might already be code
in your area.

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

No. If you need to upgrade, it'll simply be because yer tripping a
breaker...which will logically usually require an additional circuit
instead of a larger breaker.

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?

Breakers are usually the same price...wire is a little more for 12.
Working with the larger wire is the real pain.

Make sure you check yer code to see what size is needed for specific
circuits.

Good luck.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

I think the technology is going toward lower current, not higher The HVAC
system will probably be drawing half of what it did in 1980 for the same
house
right now. People are warming up to flourecents, TVs are a big lamp now..

Even motors are using less energy than in the past.

Exactly. The real loads are in the kitchen, laundry and bathroom. NFPA has
dealt with that by adding 12 ga circuits. The rest of the house is basically
running light bulbs and transistors. If a person builds a shop, it is really up
to them to come up with a plan for the extra power. You can't expect a builder
to anticipate that need in advance unless it was spec'ed in the house.

"Data" is the 21st century "power".
If I was building for 50 years from now I would be running a lot of "smurf" and
keeping my options open.

If you were really clever, you'd be putting in easily accessible raceways, and
not worrying so much about what goes in them.

And what kind of cord are you going to plug into your beefed up 20 amp
circuit? What happens when you set a chair on your 18 gauge lamp cord?
Will your 20 amp trip like a 15 amp?, I think not. I would guess few fires
are caused by the wiring in the walls, rather more likely, a damaged lamp
cord on a breaker that won't trip.
Bill
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
dave wrote:

Building more capacity than is required is a waste of resources. Same
mentality as driving a vehicle with bad mileage for no compelling
reason. There is so little conservation in most houses. With
fluoresant lighting, 10 amp breakers would be overkill. When people
start paying 25 cents and up a KWH maybe there will be some forced
common sense.

Not at all. It is all a matter of your time horizon. Most houses will
last at least 100 years if properly maintained. The electrical wiring
will likely last at least 50 years before needing replacement. You have
no way to know what the load requirements will be in 10 years, let alone
50 years. Kitchens built 50 years ago had plenty of ampacity for the
needs then, but their wiring is now woefully inadequate for a modern
suite of appliances. It is almost certain that electrical needs will
increase rather than decrease, even with more efficient appliances and
lighting. Providing more than just the bare minimum capacity for
today's needs is not at all wasteful as it costs a lot more resources to
retrofit later. And, as another poster already pointed out, the lower
IsquaredR loss in the heavier wire actually saves energy and money over
the long haul.


Matt

bill shipley wrote:

And what kind of cord are you going to plug into your beefed up 20 amp
circuit? What happens when you set a chair on your 18 gauge lamp cord?
Will your 20 amp trip like a 15 amp?, I think not. I would guess few fires
are caused by the wiring in the walls, rather more likely, a damaged lamp
cord on a breaker that won't trip.

The same thing as will happen with a 15A breaker. An 18 gauge cord with
a short will carry 20A more than long enough to trip the breaker before
it gets hot enough to cause a fire.


Matt

The same thing as will happen with a 15A breaker. An 18 gauge cord with
a short will carry 20A more than long enough to trip the breaker before
it gets hot enough to cause a fire.


The question was never whether a bolted fault on a small conductor would trip
the O/C device. What happens if this is an arcing fault or an overload?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

Yes, everytime you use an outlet you are heating your home with
electric heat. The heaver the wiring the less heat. Codes do not
factor in effeciency in any way so you should. The heaver guage pays
for its self very quickly. In 18 years my company has never run a 15A
line to anything.

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:
We are about to install several new circuits as we upgrade the
electrical systems in this very old house.

- For "normal" rooms (i.e. not kitchen, bathroom, garage, workshop, or
outdoors), should one go with standard 15A circuits or should one
put in 20A "just in case"?

- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it
pay to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

- How big is the difference in price for wiring (per foot) and for
circuit breakers?


We use #12 wire everywhere for both 15A and 20A circuits.

For those loads which truly require a 20A circuit, they get a 20A breaker
and most of the time these wiring runs are reasonably short.

For all other non-specialized wiring we install #20 / 15A combo as a safety
precaution.

All bedrooms get 15A arc-fault type breakers.

AndrewJ wrote in message . ..
- Even if you just put in 15A breakers and receptacles now, does it pay
to pull through #12 wire just in case you ever later want to
upgrade?

Yes, everytime you use an outlet you are heating your home with
electric heat. The heaver the wiring the less heat. Codes do not
factor in effeciency in any way so you should. The heaver guage pays
for its self very quickly. In 18 years my company has never run a 15A
line to anything.


So at say 15 cents per killowatt hour you might save 50, 60, or
maybe 80 cents this year. Sorry but this does not even make sense for
a solar powered house. Don't even want to go there with the heating
part. Ya can get it all here