On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Joshua Snow wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Works fine.



Or cut off the top part, but leave a couple feet near the ground that you
can pull out of the bush to apply the Roundup. Or if it the top is accessible
growing above the bush, treat that part with RU, without getting it on the
bush. Gloves and a rag work.

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 7:39:21 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:14:28 +1000, "Joshua
Snow" wrote:



"micky" wrote in message
.. .
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Thanks.

Interesting. I never heard of neat Roundup, and no one sells it, but
there are pages that refer to it.

He means the concentrated RU or glyphosate which is readily available.
IDK what the top concentration is, but I have one that is just under 50%,
that's the highest I've seen. You probably don't need anything that high.
Typical for dealing with common weeds is 3%. Maybe 10% for tough to kill.
The key is how much actually gets applied. If you can get to part of the
vine with leaves, either near the ground when it's starting to regrow or
coming out of the top of the bush, you'll deliver a lot more RU than if
you paint just the cut off end.




Roundup itself says iit is Roundup PowerMAX Concentrate or Roundup Tough
Concentrate

But these are hard to get in one-family size. What do you recommend?

One seems only for sale in 2.5 gallons for $80. . The closest thing I
found is Roundup Tough Ultra Cconcentrate 500ml. I guess ultra means
even more concentrated, and it says 500ml makes enough for "1500m2,
equivalent to 6 tennis courts." I think I need about one square meter.

That stuff lasts pretty much indefinitely, so it might be worth it.
Should be able to find 2.5 gal for ~$50. But if you can't use it, then
get a quart of brush killer product instead. It's other chemicals and much
stronger for use on tough stuff like vines.

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 9:51:44 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Thanks.

Interesting. I never heard of neat Roundup, and no one sells it, but
there are pages that refer to it.

Roundup itself says iit is Roundup PowerMAX Concentrate or Roundup Tough
Concentrate


I would not cut the vines back too much. Trim them some and then use a
brush to paint the leaves of what you want to kill off. It may take a
week or so for the vines to die.

Instead of just looking for Roundup look for anything that has
Glyphosate in it. That is mostly what Roundup is. Be caeful about
getting it on anything you want to live as it kills off most everything
it touches. It is absorbed by the leaves and goes down to kill off the
roots.

Good point. I said you can find RU 48% for about $50 for 2.5 gallons, but that
is for the generic, ie glyphosate, eg Razor. The name brand is more expensive.
Worst of all is buying the ready made stuff for $10 a pop for a half gallon.
You can make a couple hundred gallons from the 2.5 gallon concentrate. When
buying one I'd make sure it includes a surfactant too. Razor does.

On 9/15/2020 4:42 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Joshua Snow wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Works fine.



Or cut off the top part, but leave a couple feet near the ground that you
can pull out of the bush to apply the Roundup. Or if it the top is accessible
growing above the bush, treat that part with RU, without getting it on the
bush. Gloves and a rag work.

So does stuffing it in a cardboard box loosely, and spraying it there.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 7:39:21 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:14:28 +1000, "Joshua
Snow" wrote:



"micky" wrote in message
.. .
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the
evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Thanks.

Interesting. I never heard of neat Roundup, and no one sells it, but
there are pages that refer to it.

He means the concentrated RU or glyphosate which is readily available.
IDK what the top concentration is, but I have one that is just under 50%,
that's the highest I've seen. You probably don't need anything that high.
Typical for dealing with common weeds is 3%. Maybe 10% for tough to kill.
The key is how much actually gets applied. If you can get to part of the
vine with leaves, either near the ground when it's starting to regrow or
coming out of the top of the bush, you'll deliver a lot more RU than if
you paint just the cut off end.

But applying neat/concentrated roundup to the cut main stem
kills the root a lot better than applying roundup to the leaves.

Roundup itself says iit is Roundup PowerMAX Concentrate or Roundup Tough
Concentrate

But these are hard to get in one-family size. What do you recommend?

One seems only for sale in 2.5 gallons for $80. . The closest thing I
found is Roundup Tough Ultra Cconcentrate 500ml. I guess ultra means
even more concentrated, and it says 500ml makes enough for "1500m2,
equivalent to 6 tennis courts." I think I need about one square meter.

That stuff lasts pretty much indefinitely, so it might be worth it.
Should be able to find 2.5 gal for ~$50. But if you can't use it, then
get a quart of brush killer product instead. It's other chemicals and
much
stronger for use on tough stuff like vines.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 03:22:49 +1000, Joshua Snow, better known as
cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:22??? And you are up and trolling already? Can't you even TRY to hide how
SICK (mentally) you are, senile pest? LOL

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:42:34 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 9/15/2020 4:42 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Joshua Snow wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Works fine.



Or cut off the top part, but leave a couple feet near the ground that you
can pull out of the bush to apply the Roundup. Or if it the top is accessible
growing above the bush, treat that part with RU, without getting it on the
bush. Gloves and a rag work.

So does stuffing it in a cardboard box loosely, and spraying it there.

Thanks for the good ideas. It may be too cold before I do t h is
stuff, but there is next spring.

I didn't know anyhone used roundup after all the bad press, and I didn't
know roundup (or the eequivalent) killed vines inthe first place.

I did one time get a little crabgrass etc. poison on a branch of the
tulip tree when spraying the grass with the garden hose. I lost 5 big
leaves worth.

And I lost a bunch of low lying evergreen bushes within a few years of
that, the first bush soon after, and I have suspected that I killed it.
(It also had cedar apple whatever, a disease t hat goes back and forth
between apple trees and cedar bushes, but iirc that ended years earlier
with only the loss of a few little bush branches (and the trees. I
bought the last bottle of the only poison that was supposed to kill the
disease. I think they wereen't making any more because it was
dangerous, and I coudln't get up enough nerve to use it.).

On 9/15/2020 4:08 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:42:34 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 9/15/2020 4:42 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Joshua Snow wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Works fine.



Or cut off the top part, but leave a couple feet near the ground that you
can pull out of the bush to apply the Roundup. Or if it the top is accessible
growing above the bush, treat that part with RU, without getting it on the
bush. Gloves and a rag work.

So does stuffing it in a cardboard box loosely, and spraying it there.

Thanks for the good ideas. It may be too cold before I do t h is
stuff, but there is next spring.

One of the things I read about notching icy trunks with an ax, and then
painting roundup concentrate on the wounds it said the dormant season
was the best time for that.


I didn't know anyhone used roundup after all the bad press, and I didn't
know roundup (or the eequivalent) killed vines inthe first place.

roundup may be significantly less hazardous that some other chemicals,
but still use it carefully and conservatively.


I did one time get a little crabgrass etc. poison on a branch of the
tulip tree when spraying the grass with the garden hose. I lost 5 big
leaves worth.

And I lost a bunch of low lying evergreen bushes within a few years of
that, the first bush soon after, and I have suspected that I killed it.
(It also had cedar apple whatever, a disease t hat goes back and forth
between apple trees and cedar bushes, but iirc that ended years earlier
with only the loss of a few little bush branches (and the trees. I
bought the last bottle of the only poison that was supposed to kill the
disease. I think they wereen't making any more because it was
dangerous, and I coudln't get up enough nerve to use it.).

On 9/15/2020 5:04 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/15/2020 4:08 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:42:34 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 9/15/2020 4:42 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Joshua Snow wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes.Â* What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that
still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the
evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Works fine.



Or cut off the top part, but leave a couple feet near the ground
that you
can pull out of the bush to apply the Roundup.Â* Or if it the top is
accessible
growing above the bush, treat that part with RU, without getting it
on the
bush.Â* Gloves and a rag work.

So does stuffing it in a cardboard box loosely, and spraying it there.

Thanks for the good ideas.Â*Â* It may be too cold before I do t h is
stuff, but there is next spring.

One of the things I read about notching ivy trunks with an ax, and then
painting roundup concentrate on the wounds it said the dormant season
was the best time for that.


I didn't know anyhone used roundup after all the bad press, and I didn't
know roundup (or the eequivalent) killed vines inthe first place.

roundup may be significantly less hazardous that some other chemicals,
but still use it carefully and conservatively.


I did one time get a little crabgrass etc. poison on a branch of the
tulip tree when spraying the grass with the garden hose.Â* I lost 5 big
leaves worth.

And I lost a bunch of low lying evergreen bushes within a few years of
that, the first bush soon after, and I have suspected that I killed it.
(It also had cedar apple whatever, a disease t hat goes back and forth
between apple trees and cedar bushes, but iirc that ended years earlier
with only the loss of a few little bush branches (and the trees.Â* I
bought the last bottle of the only poison that was supposed to kill the
disease.Â* I think they wereen't making any more because it was
dangerous, and I coudln't get up enough nerve to use it.).

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:02:18 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 9/15/2020 5:04 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/15/2020 4:08 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:42:34 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 9/15/2020 4:42 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Joshua Snow wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes.* What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that
still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the
evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Works fine.



Or cut off the top part, but leave a couple feet near the ground
that you
can pull out of the bush to apply the Roundup.* Or if it the top is
accessible
growing above the bush, treat that part with RU, without getting it
on the
bush.* Gloves and a rag work.

So does stuffing it in a cardboard box loosely, and spraying it there.

Thanks for the good ideas.** It may be too cold before I do t h is
stuff, but there is next spring.

One of the things I read about notching ivy trunks with an ax, and then
painting roundup concentrate on the wounds it said the dormant season
was the best time for that.

I heard that somewhere**. I try to be dormant myself in the cool and
cold weather, but I'll do it then if that's called the best time.

**Very recently, maybe in this thread.

I didn't know anyhone used roundup after all the bad press, and I didn't
know roundup (or the eequivalent) killed vines inthe first place.

roundup may be significantly less hazardous that some other chemicals,
but still use it carefully and conservatively.


I did one time get a little crabgrass etc. poison on a branch of the
tulip tree when spraying the grass with the garden hose.* I lost 5 big
leaves worth.

And I lost a bunch of low lying evergreen bushes within a few years of
that, the first bush soon after, and I have suspected that I killed it.
(It also had cedar apple whatever, a disease t hat goes back and forth
between apple trees and cedar bushes, but iirc that ended years earlier
with only the loss of a few little bush branches (and the trees.* I
bought the last bottle of the only poison that was supposed to kill the
disease.* I think they wereen't making any more because it was
dangerous, and I coudln't get up enough nerve to use it.).

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:30:12 +1000, "Joshua Snow"
wrote:


Not with someone who isnt a drinker who may well not realise
that scotch is a subset of whisky and not a person and doesnt
realise that the correct name for a person is scott, not scotch.

Scot, not scott.

How did "cross dressing hairy legged haggis chasers" clear anything up?

That was one way of referring to individuals rather than the drink.
And it isnt too much information.

Whoosh. Yes it was.

On 9/16/2020 3:59 AM, micky wrote:


One of the things I read about notching ivy trunks with an ax, and then
painting roundup concentrate on the wounds it said the dormant season
was the best time for that.

I heard that somewhere**. I try to be dormant myself in the cool and
cold weather, but I'll do it then if that's called the best time.

**Very recently, maybe in this thread.

I think I saw it in one of the (UK?) articles referring to "neat" roundup.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:08:30 -0400, micky
wrote:

I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

Thanks for all the helpful advice about annoying vines.

I came across this probably sponsored by Monsanto, but anyhow:

What Foods Have Glyphosate?

Honey Nut Cheerios Medley Crunch (830 ppb)
Nature Valley Crunchy Granola Bars, Maple Brown Sugar (566 ppb)
Nature Valley Granola Cups, Almond Butter (529 ppb)
Chocolate Peanut Butter Cheerios (400 ppb)
Nature Valley Baked Oat Bites (389 ppb)
Nature Valley Crunchy Granola Bars, Oats and Honey (320 ppb)

More items...Feb 20, 2020

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/what-...ave-glyphosate

This would explain why there are no vines growing in my Cheerios.

Not that they are only parts per billion!

Oh, the article says this is a bad thing. I guessed wrong. And the
url is clearly not by Monsanto.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:16:53 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 14:52:18 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 08:25:10 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 13 Sep 2020 17:04:26 -0400,
wrote:
.......
It is tedious work but if you cut them off at the ground and paint the
stems with Brush B Gone/Garlon, they will die. Just use a small artist

Thanks.
The closest I cuold find was a different brand, BioAdvanced Brush Killer
https://www.amazon.com/BioAdvanced-7...DHK/ref=sr_1_3

Turns out this doesn't have glyphosphate or if it does, it doesn't say
so.

paint brush.

That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

It depends what the problem is.

https://www.nola.com/entertainment_l...bece5889e.html
Glyphosate (Roundup, Eraser, Killzall and other brands) or triclopyr
(Brush-B-Gon, Brush Killer and other brands) are commonly recommended
for weedy vine control.

Triclopyr is generally recommended for woody vines and glyphosate for
herbaceous vines (although triclopyr is considered better against
cayratia than glyphosate).

https://www.lsuagcenter.com/profiles...e1534450219253
[The start of the article makes it look like he's plagiarizing, but it's
the same guy, Dan Gill, LSU AgCenter Horticulturist]

Glyphosate (Roundup, Eraser, Killzall and other brands) or triclopyr
(Brush-B-Gon, Brush Killer, Cut Vine and Stump Killer and other brands)
are commonly recommended for weedy vine control.

Triclopyr is generally recommended for woody vines, and glyphosate is
recommended for herbaceous vines (although triclopyr is considered
better than glyphosate against cayratia). Herbicides that contain a
combination of dicamba (banvel) and 2,4-D also work well, but you must
be more careful with these. Once a vine dies, it may be removed.

https://www.invasive.org/alien/pubs/...trol-vines.htm
HERBACEOUS VINES. For most herbaceous vines, a systemic herbicide
containing glyphosate (e.g., Accord®, Roundup®, Rodeo®) can be applied
to the foliage at a rate of 1-3% mixed in water. If needed, the rate can
be increased but not above the rate provided on the pesticide label.

WOODY VINES. For most woody vines, the most effective method of control
is to cut the vine stem and apply a concentrated mix of systemic
herbicide immediately to the cut surface. If foliar treatment is
necessary, it is important to take measures to reduce off-site and
non-target effects.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 10:48:33 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:16:53 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 14:52:18 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 08:25:10 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 13 Sep 2020 17:04:26 -0400,
wrote:
.......
It is tedious work but if you cut them off at the ground and paint the
stems with Brush B Gone/Garlon, they will die. Just use a small artist

Thanks.
The closest I cuold find was a different brand, BioAdvanced Brush Killer
https://www.amazon.com/BioAdvanced-7...DHK/ref=sr_1_3

Turns out this doesn't have glyphosphate or if it does, it doesn't say
so.

paint brush.

That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

It depends what the problem is.

https://www.nola.com/entertainment_l...bece5889e.html
Glyphosate (Roundup, Eraser, Killzall and other brands) or triclopyr
(Brush-B-Gon, Brush Killer and other brands) are commonly recommended
for weedy vine control.

Triclopyr is generally recommended for woody vines and glyphosate for
herbaceous vines (although triclopyr is considered better against
cayratia than glyphosate).

https://www.lsuagcenter.com/profiles...e1534450219253
[The start of the article makes it look like he's plagiarizing, but it's
the same guy, Dan Gill, LSU AgCenter Horticulturist]

Glyphosate (Roundup, Eraser, Killzall and other brands) or triclopyr
(Brush-B-Gon, Brush Killer, Cut Vine and Stump Killer and other brands)
are commonly recommended for weedy vine control.

Triclopyr is generally recommended for woody vines, and glyphosate is
recommended for herbaceous vines (although triclopyr is considered
better than glyphosate against cayratia). Herbicides that contain a
combination of dicamba (banvel) and 2,4-D also work well, but you must
be more careful with these. Once a vine dies, it may be removed.

https://www.invasive.org/alien/pubs/...trol-vines.htm
HERBACEOUS VINES. For most herbaceous vines, a systemic herbicide
containing glyphosate (e.g., Accord®, Roundup®, Rodeo®) can be applied
to the foliage at a rate of 1-3% mixed in water. If needed, the rate can
be increased but not above the rate provided on the pesticide label.

WOODY VINES. For most woody vines, the most effective method of control
is to cut the vine stem and apply a concentrated mix of systemic
herbicide immediately to the cut surface. If foliar treatment is
necessary, it is important to take measures to reduce off-site and
non-target effects.

We have lots of stuff here that laughs an Glyphosate. It barely wilts
the leaves straight out of the bottle.
Wedalia is one.
Air Potato would be another. It will knock the leaves off but the
plant comes right back.
Same with Brazilian Pepper.

In alt.home.lawn.garden, on Tue, 15 Sep 2020 05:22:37 +1000, "Joshua
Snow" wrote:

"micky" wrote in message
.. .
In alt.home.lawn.garden, on Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:14:28 +1000, "Joshua
Snow" wrote:



"micky" wrote in message
...
I have vines growing up in the middle of my bushes. What to do?

They look bad.

At least once a year, I rip or cut out parts I can see, but that still
leaves the stems and they grown back.

Some have grown 20 feet up the trees that are in the middle of the
bushes.

How can I now use, or have used herbicide, without killing the evergreen
bushes that surround them?

I cut the vines back as you have done and apply neat
Roundup to the cut top of what remains in the ground.

Thanks.

Interesting. I never heard of neat Roundup, and no one sells it, but
there are pages that refer to it.

Roundup itself says iit is Roundup PowerMAX Concentrate or Roundup Tough
Concentrate

But these are hard to get in one-family size. What do you recommend?

Its readily available here, but it is a rural town
whose main industry is irrigated agriculture.

One seems only for sale in 2.5 gallons for $80. .

Yeah, it isnt cheap, but you should
be able to buy some with others etc.

I was thinking of that. Advertising on Next Door, but then for some
reason instead of looking for Roundup or some other brand, I just
googled home depot glyphosphate

and what did I find, only , 16 ounces. Grass And Weed Killer Glyphosate
Concentrate for only $11.33.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Compare-...5322/302633405

But maybe more amazing is that for $11.95, 62cents more, I can't get
twice as much.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Compare-...5323/203112356

I don't think of Compare N Save as a brand to search for!! ;-)

And pick up at the store in 5 to 8 days, but free delivery in 7 days, on
a product that only costs $11.33. I once had something shipped to the
store, Hoem Depot, and I thought it would come to them wth the regular
deliveries, but when I picked it up, I think it had UPS or USPS
packaging, so if they're going to do that, they might as well ship it to
me.

Using their own search page found the 2 things above and even found a
RoundUp product
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Roundup-...9410/302957529
that mentions glyphosphate a little, but no %ages

The closest thing I found is Roundup Tough Ultra Cconcentrate
500ml. I guess ultra means even more concentrated, and it says
500ml makes enough for "1500m2, equivalent to 6 tennis courts."
I think I need about one square meter.

When you apply it undiluted to the stubs in the ground
after cutting the vine off, that area covered doesn't apply.3

I guess not. :-)


BTW, I already have triclopyr in one of t he Ortho products I bought,
that attaches to the garden hose, which means it's concentrated. So
I'm good for various kinds of vines.

I never knew one could kill them this way.

It's a shame because I didn't know how to stop it and I let the Creeping
Charlie spread and just choppped it down with the lawn mower, but it's
made my lawn lumpy. If I were a new owner, I'd dig up every lump or
rototill the whole yard or whatever it takes to start over. But I'm
not doing that.

I suppose I could spray the rest on the yard, but the yard is doing
okay except for a little creeping charlie. I think I killed most of that
with someething else, and will kill the rest next spring. And I'd
have to buy a sprayer, when I'm trying to get rid of things, unless
the sprayer that attaches to the garden hose would work. Darn.

Suggestions?

Sell the excess to one of the neighbours with the same problem you have.

Works fine.

What did I do wrong in the first place?

Didn't pull the vines out when they were still very small.

Haha.

There are also two trees, some kind of fir and an arbor vitae in the
midst of the bushes, which have a picket fence on the far side. About
once a year, I crawl under the bushes and remove litter that blows from
up to 100 yards upwind and gets stuck under the bushes. Sometimes I've
cut off the vines near the earth when I'm there, but that doesn't remove
the roots or a couple inches of stem. Could I have done more?

Yep, apply neat Roundup to the stubs.

(Mostly litter that escapes from the garbage cans when being emptied
into the garbage truck. At least the litter can't be seen (except a
little from the yard next door, if they bend down) and it doesn't grow.)

First step after ripping or cutting out the vines is to throw them on
the ground. Can I just leave them to be cut up by the lawn mower or
can more vines sprout from the chopped up stems and leaves?

Yes the cut up stems can do in theory.

Probably if they're buried, not just sitting on top of the grass, the
cut grass, and maybe the dirt.

Not the leaves tho.

A small part is English ivy. That doesn't look so bad, but .... Does
ivy kill the trees it grows on, or do dying trees attract ivy? So far
these two trees look okay, except one has snow damage, but another tree
that I didn't care about** had both a lot of ivy and death.
Coincidence? **Heavily snow damaged, and a tulip tree had sprouted 12
feet away that is 20 feet tall already.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

--

micky wrote :
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!

Sound almost natural to me. Rose galls, oak galls, witches brooms and
the like.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

That's scarey too. I miss the days when all we did was pour salt on
the land.

On 9/26/2020 11:00 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

That's scarey too. I miss the days when all we did was pour salt on
the land.

Well, if you looked into the biological science explanation of how salt
kills plants you'd end up with some other similar explanation of the
processes it inhibits as well resulting in plant death.

--

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

There are plenty of weeds that have found a way around that process. I
suspect Monsanto splices a gene from one of them into their
Frankencorn that is immune to glyphosate. I know I have weeds here
that it won't even slow down much. I don't know if it was always that
way or whether they have an acquired immunity. The south does seem to
be where somewhat benign weeds go nuts because of our longer growing
season, lots of sun and lots of water. Something that may seem like a
cute dish garden plant up north can become the weed that ate your yard
here. Snake Plant (Sansevieria trifasciata) is a good example. In
Maryland people loved them because it was a potted plant you couldn't
kill. Down here it is a weed you can't kill. Glyphosate has zero
effect on it, no matter what concentration. I have a hill covered with
it. It doesn't really bother me but I do spray for Cogangrass using
glyphosate at 2-3 times label concentration and the snake plant is
still there. It seems to like it.

On 9/26/2020 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

There are plenty of weeds that have found a way around that process. I
suspect Monsanto splices a gene from one of them into their
Frankencorn that is immune to glyphosate. I know I have weeds here
that it won't even slow down much. I don't know if it was always that
way or whether they have an acquired immunity. The south does seem to
be where somewhat benign weeds go nuts because of our longer growing
season, lots of sun and lots of water. Something that may seem like a
cute dish garden plant up north can become the weed that ate your yard
here. Snake Plant (Sansevieria trifasciata) is a good example. In
Maryland people loved them because it was a potted plant you couldn't
kill. Down here it is a weed you can't kill. Glyphosate has zero
effect on it, no matter what concentration. I have a hill covered with
it. It doesn't really bother me but I do spray for Cogangrass using
glyphosate at 2-3 times label concentration and the snake plant is
still there. It seems to like it.

There is virtually no herbicide that plants don't have some ability to
develop a tolerance for -- the newer ones just haven't had time yet.

And, yes, "Roundup-Ready" crops are genetically engineered to be used
with glyphosate; there are other cropping systems using other herbicides
as well; just so happens Monsanto (now Bayer) was first so gets all the
headlines...

There's nothing that can be shown to be detrimental in the crops
produced using these systems.

--

On 9/26/2020 11:00 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

That's scarey too. I miss the days when all we did was pour salt on
the land.

That's worse than the herbicide for the ground, though, the herbicides
breakdown and go away; the salt is there forever until it gets diluted
and pollutes the ground around the application spot some, which may
stunt growth that is intended.

See what happened in Israel and has happened elsewhere as well by
continuing irrigation with water containing excessive salts
concentrations...

--

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:00:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

That's scarey too. I miss the days when all we did was pour salt on
the land.

If you live near the water, you get salt tolerant weeds. I understand
in B'More that is a foreign concept. The bay is contact solution by
the time it gets up there.
My river goes from 300 PPM salt to 30 PPT, depending on how much it
rains.

On 9/26/2020 12:29 PM, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2020 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Â* GlyphosateÂ* killsÂ* plantsÂ* byÂ* inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphateÂ* synthaseÂ* (EPSPS).Â*Â*Â* EPSPSÂ* isÂ* a
keyÂ* enzymeÂ* inÂ* theÂ* shikimateÂ* biosyntheticÂ* pathwayÂ* whichÂ* is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

There are plenty of weeds that have found a way around that process. I
suspect Monsanto splices a gene from one of them into their
Frankencorn that is immune to glyphosate. I know I have weeds here
that it won't even slow down much. I don't know if it was always that
way or whether they have an acquired immunity. The south does seem to
be where somewhat benign weeds go nuts because of our longer growing
season, lots of sun and lots of water. Something that may seem like a
cute dish garden plant up north can become the weed that ate your yard
here. Snake Plant (Sansevieria trifasciata) is a good example. In
Maryland people loved them because it was a potted plant you couldn't
kill. Down here it is a weed you can't kill. Glyphosate has zero
effect on it, no matter what concentration. I have a hill covered with
it. It doesn't really bother me but I do spray for Cogangrass using
glyphosate at 2-3 times label concentration and the snake plant is
still there. It seems to like it.

There is virtually no herbicide that plants don't have some ability to
develop a tolerance for -- the newer ones just haven't had time yet.

And, yes, "Roundup-Ready" crops are genetically engineered to be used
with glyphosate; there are other cropping systems using other herbicides
as well; just so happens Monsanto (now Bayer) was first so gets all the
headlines...

There's nothing that can be shown to be detrimental in the crops
produced using these systems.

According to the manufacturers. There has never been sufficient testing
to prove they are safe. European nations have outlawed some of them for
reasons and set safe levels in food to a fraction of US "safe levels".
There are reports of food products testing far above the legal limits in
the US.


People can read what Erin Brockovich has to say about this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-is-killing-us

Or, read about what some toxic substance experts suggest.

" Statement by the International Federation of Gynecology and
Obstetrics (FIGO) Reproductive and Environmental Health Committee: €œWe
recommend that glyphosate exposure to populations should end with a full
global phase out.€� (7.2019)
Essay in Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health: €œIs it time
to reassess safety standards for glyphosate based herbicides?€� (6.2017)
Consensus statement in Environmental Health Journal: €œConcerns over
use of glyphosate-based herbicides and risks associated with exposures:
a consensus statement€� (2.2016)
A public comment submitted to the EPA in October 2019 stated that
several research papers support a cancer connection to glyphosate and it
should be banned. The comment was originally submitted under the name of
Patrick Breysse, who is the director of the National Center for
Environmental Health and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease
Registry (ATSDR) Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But after
USRTK inquired about the comment to the EPA, Breysses name was deleted
and the comment was attributed to €œanonymous.€� This is the comment:
€œNumerous studies have linked its use to an increase in lymphomas, and
its time we stopped letting the chemical industry manipulate research
to serve its own interest. U.S. citizens need to trust the Environmental
Protection Agency to operate in our best interest, which means weighing
evidence from neutral scientific sources not vested in the outcome.€�
Breysse was the ATSDR official who was pressured by EPA officials in
2015 to put a halt to a review of glyphosate toxicity. See background
story and internal EPA emails here.
"
https://usrtk.org/pesticides/glyphos...alth-concerns/

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:34:48 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/26/2020 11:00 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS). EPSPS is a
key enzyme in the shikimate biosynthetic pathway which is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

That's scarey too. I miss the days when all we did was pour salt on
the land.

That's worse than the herbicide for the ground, though, the herbicides
breakdown and go away; the salt is there forever until it gets diluted
and pollutes the ground around the application spot some, which may
stunt growth that is intended.

See what happened in Israel and has happened elsewhere as well by
continuing irrigation with water containing excessive salts
concentrations...

A lot depends on your soil. Salt washes down into the ground water
here pretty fast. In that clay and bank run gravel I had in Maryland a
rock salt spill I had 35 years ago still might be killing the grass.
We do have an interesting turf grass here that might catch on if they
keep loading on the water restrictions. Seashore Paspalum will grow if
you irrigate it with sea water and we have no shortage of that.
Some plants like a Coconut Palm will grow right on the beach. They
like salt water. It may actually promote sprouting from the nut.
Brazillian Pepper is very salt tolerant too, competing with Mangroves
for the shore line.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:54:07 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 9/26/2020 12:29 PM, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2020 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 07:18:46 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/26/2020 1:24 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:29:24 -0400,
wrote:


That is basically Garlon (Tryclopyr).
It kicks Glyphosate's ass.

Mode of Action: Triclopyr is an auxin mimic or synthetic auxin. This
type of herbicide kills the target weed by mimicking the plant growth
hormone auxin (indole acetic acid), and when administered at effective
doses, causes uncontrolled and disorganized plant growth that leads to
plant death.

Sounds complicated, high-tech, and scarey!


Â* GlyphosateÂ* killsÂ* plantsÂ* byÂ* inhibiting
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphateÂ* synthaseÂ* (EPSPS).Â*Â*Â* EPSPSÂ* isÂ* a
keyÂ* enzymeÂ* inÂ* theÂ* shikimateÂ* biosyntheticÂ* pathwayÂ* whichÂ* is
necessary for the production of the aromatic amino acids, auxin,
phytoalexins, folic acid, lignin, plastoquinones and many other
secondary products.

There are plenty of weeds that have found a way around that process. I
suspect Monsanto splices a gene from one of them into their
Frankencorn that is immune to glyphosate. I know I have weeds here
that it won't even slow down much. I don't know if it was always that
way or whether they have an acquired immunity. The south does seem to
be where somewhat benign weeds go nuts because of our longer growing
season, lots of sun and lots of water. Something that may seem like a
cute dish garden plant up north can become the weed that ate your yard
here. Snake Plant (Sansevieria trifasciata) is a good example. In
Maryland people loved them because it was a potted plant you couldn't
kill. Down here it is a weed you can't kill. Glyphosate has zero
effect on it, no matter what concentration. I have a hill covered with
it. It doesn't really bother me but I do spray for Cogangrass using
glyphosate at 2-3 times label concentration and the snake plant is
still there. It seems to like it.

There is virtually no herbicide that plants don't have some ability to
develop a tolerance for -- the newer ones just haven't had time yet.

And, yes, "Roundup-Ready" crops are genetically engineered to be used
with glyphosate; there are other cropping systems using other herbicides
as well; just so happens Monsanto (now Bayer) was first so gets all the
headlines...

There's nothing that can be shown to be detrimental in the crops
produced using these systems.

According to the manufacturers. There has never been sufficient testing
to prove they are safe. European nations have outlawed some of them for
reasons and set safe levels in food to a fraction of US "safe levels".
There are reports of food products testing far above the legal limits in
the US.


People can read what Erin Brockovich has to say about this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-is-killing-us

Or, read about what some toxic substance experts suggest.

" Statement by the International Federation of Gynecology and
Obstetrics (FIGO) Reproductive and Environmental Health Committee: €œWe
recommend that glyphosate exposure to populations should end with a full
global phase out.€� (7.2019)
Essay in Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health: €œIs it time
to reassess safety standards for glyphosate based herbicides?€� (6.2017)
Consensus statement in Environmental Health Journal: €œConcerns over
use of glyphosate-based herbicides and risks associated with exposures:
a consensus statement€� (2.2016)
A public comment submitted to the EPA in October 2019 stated that
several research papers support a cancer connection to glyphosate and it
should be banned. The comment was originally submitted under the name of
Patrick Breysse, who is the director of the National Center for
Environmental Health and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease
Registry (ATSDR) Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But after
USRTK inquired about the comment to the EPA, Breysses name was deleted
and the comment was attributed to €œanonymous.€� This is the comment:
€œNumerous studies have linked its use to an increase in lymphomas, and
its time we stopped letting the chemical industry manipulate research
to serve its own interest. U.S. citizens need to trust the Environmental
Protection Agency to operate in our best interest, which means weighing
evidence from neutral scientific sources not vested in the outcome.€�
Breysse was the ATSDR official who was pressured by EPA officials in
2015 to put a halt to a review of glyphosate toxicity. See background
story and internal EPA emails here.
"
https://usrtk.org/pesticides/glyphos...alth-concerns/

We are the lab rats for the world for this Frankencorn. It is in
damned near everything we eat one way or another.