Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.

On 2020-04-20 2:14 p.m., micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.

it's not physics

On 4/20/20 4:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.

Research ground source heat pump.

In article ,
says...
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.




Over the years the heat pumps have became more efficent. I have not
checked it out, but maybe things like larger outside units to collect
more heat from the air. Look at the HPSF ratings for the heat pumps.
The units that operate in the open air usually work well to about 30 deg
F. From around 25 to 30 deg F they are ok. Much below 25 deg they go
down hill fast, or should say the operating cost go way up .

They also have a SEER rating for the air condition cooling.

On 4/20/2020 5:52 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.



Over the years the heat pumps have became more efficent. I have not
checked it out, but maybe things like larger outside units to collect
more heat from the air. Look at the HPSF ratings for the heat pumps.
The units that operate in the open air usually work well to about 30 deg
F. From around 25 to 30 deg F they are ok. Much below 25 deg they go
down hill fast, or should say the operating cost go way up .

They also have a SEER rating for the air condition cooling.


Yah, the new ones are amazing and they work great until the warranty expires.Â* Ten minutes later the coils start leaking and the refrigerant leaks out.

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 5:53:03 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.




Over the years the heat pumps have became more efficent. I have not
checked it out, but maybe things like larger outside units to collect
more heat from the air. Look at the HPSF ratings for the heat pumps.
The units that operate in the open air usually work well to about 30 deg
F. From around 25 to 30 deg F they are ok. Much below 25 deg they go
down hill fast, or should say the operating cost go way up .

They also have a SEER rating for the air condition cooling.

They have improved, just like today a 14 SEER AC is the lowest you can
buy where 30 years ago, 10 was common. How cost effective they are as
always depends on the cost of electricity, cost of alternative fuels
and climate. I can tell you I've never seen an air sourced system here
in coastal NJ, which isn't all that cold. I have heard of ground sourced,
which Dean mentioned, but I think when you look at the cost of the install,
that's a losing proposition if you have nat gas available.

On 4/20/20 4:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


A little information:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/heat-pumps/buying-guide/index.htm

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.
Ground source works a lot better than air source

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.
If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

On 4/21/2020 12:07 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit. All for $200!

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 7:36:55 AM UTC-4, Todesco wrote:
On 4/21/2020 12:07 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit. All for $200!

What are the details of that warranty? Will they replace it with an
equivalent, no pro rating, even if there is no manufacturing defect?
If so, that would be a great warranty.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:36:49 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 4/21/2020 12:07 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit. All for $200!

Now you've confused me. Both build in same factory sounds like you
think they're the same and not worth more, but the last line makes it
sound like you think Amana is worth the extra 200.

BTW, I think Goodman was bought by Dalton and now is called Dalton???

On 4/21/2020 10:04 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:36:49 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 4/21/2020 12:07 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit. All for $200!

Now you've confused me. Both build in same factory sounds like you
think they're the same and not worth more, but the last line makes it
sound like you think Amana is worth the extra 200.

BTW, I think Goodman was bought by Dalton and now is called Dalton???


Built in the same factory does not mean they are identical, though for
the most part they probably are. I've seen HVAC units built with the
only change being the sticker with brand name, but I've also seen them
with minor changes in features.

On 4/21/2020 9:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/21/2020 10:04 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:36:49 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

....

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP.Â* The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman.Â* Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit.Â* All for $200!

Now you've confused me.Â* Both build in same factory sounds like you
think they're the same and not worth more, but the last line makes it
sound like you think Amana is worth the extra 200.

BTW, I think Goodman was bought by Dalton and now is called Dalton???


Built in the same factory does not mean they are identical, though for
the most part they probably are.Â* I've seen HVAC units built with the
only change being the sticker with brand name, but I've also seen them
with minor changes in features.

That's the "Daikan" Group that is the parent, not Dalton.

Goodman bought Amana in 1997, then sold the appliance business unit to
Maytag in 2001 keeping the Amana HVAC brand.

--

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 10:04:40 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:36:49 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 4/21/2020 12:07 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit. All for $200!

Now you've confused me. Both build in same factory sounds like you
think they're the same and not worth more, but the last line makes it
sound like you think Amana is worth the extra 200.

He made it clear. For $200 he got a lifetime warranty. What exactly that
covers IDK, but assuming it's something reasonable, it would be worth $200.







BTW, I think Goodman was bought by Dalton and now is called Dalton???

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:20:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/21/2020 10:04 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:36:49 -0400, Todesco
wrote:

On 4/21/2020 12:07 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:40:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/20/2020 5:14 PM, micky wrote:
Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it
10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two
winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter
climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat
and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but
it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread.

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I
shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

If you have to replace an old oil burner check out
www.energykinetics.com They have some good systems and cut my oil use
in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers.
That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at
the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an
Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory.
The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside
unit. All for $200!

Now you've confused me. Both build in same factory sounds like you
think they're the same and not worth more, but the last line makes it
sound like you think Amana is worth the extra 200.

BTW, I think Goodman was bought by Dalton and now is called Dalton???


Built in the same factory does not mean they are identical, though for
the most part they probably are. I've seen HVAC units built with the
only change being the sticker with brand name, but I've also seen them
with minor changes in features.
And sometimes the minor feature, or lack thereof, is what makes or
breaks the unit.
Othertimes the sheet metal is all the 2 brands share - - - -
Different burners, different heat exchangers, different fans,
different controllers - or any combination of the above.
On others everything is the same EXCEPT the sheet metal.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:


I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.

I remember that one of them had 35 years experience.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.
Actually not uncommon

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:12:19 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.
Actually not uncommon

And what do they do when the old oil furnace blower pushes air at it's
fixed higher speed rate, suited to a 120K BTU furnace and you have air
coming out that feels cold? How about when the furnace goes kaput in
5 years and then you have the additional cost of screwing with removing
the heat pump coils, re-installing, doing that work over? What's the
benefit of a new furnace that will be higher efficiency and not cost
that much more for the eqpt, done at the same time?

As to these guys having 50 years experience, I'm not so impressed.
Micky already said he had someone out that gave an estimate on adding a
heat pump system and they didn't even look at the panel. He said he
has a 60A panel. Nuff said on that one.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:30:28 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:12:19 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.
Actually not uncommon

And what do they do when the old oil furnace blower pushes air at it's
fixed higher speed rate, suited to a 120K BTU furnace and you have air
coming out that feels cold?

Only if I feel the air coming out at all, and I only do that when I'm
barefoot in the bathroom. How much time do you think I spend barefoot
in the bathroom? 20 or 30 minutes a week.

How about when the furnace goes kaput in
5 years and then you have the additional cost of screwing with removing
the heat pump coils, re-installing, doing that work over?

Of course there will be that additional cost, some time in the future.
I knew that before I talked to anyone.

What's the
benefit of a new furnace that will be higher efficiency and not cost
that much more for the eqpt, done at the same time?

As to these guys having 50 years experience, I'm not so impressed.

And two other estimators from other companies reacted the same way.

Micky already said he had someone out that gave an estimate on adding a
heat pump system and they didn't even look at the panel. He said he
has a 60A panel. Nuff said on that one.

More than enough. You're making a mountain out of little pile of dust.

I didn't like the guy who wanted to reline my chimney. He said oil
burned hotter. Maybe but it's been burning hotter all these years too,
and it's not a masonry chimney. So for that and several other things
about him, I called anotehr company.

So counting the quack there have been 4 proposals and no one objected to
using the oil furnace, even though they know all about the airspeed, and
the only one to comment on the fusebox was the quack. But in your
honor I'll explicitly ask one or two of them. They were all throrough
and I'm sure they'll say it's fine.

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 7:56:04 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:30:28 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:12:19 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.
Actually not uncommon

And what do they do when the old oil furnace blower pushes air at it's
fixed higher speed rate, suited to a 120K BTU furnace and you have air
coming out that feels cold?

Only if I feel the air coming out at all, and I only do that when I'm
barefoot in the bathroom. How much time do you think I spend barefoot
in the bathroom? 20 or 30 minutes a week.

Carry on then, I bow to your knowledge.




How about when the furnace goes kaput in
5 years and then you have the additional cost of screwing with removing
the heat pump coils, re-installing, doing that work over?

Of course there will be that additional cost, some time in the future.
I knew that before I talked to anyone.

What's the
benefit of a new furnace that will be higher efficiency and not cost
that much more for the eqpt, done at the same time?

As to these guys having 50 years experience, I'm not so impressed.

And two other estimators from other companies reacted the same way.

Micky already said he had someone out that gave an estimate on adding a
heat pump system and they didn't even look at the panel. He said he
has a 60A panel. Nuff said on that one.

More than enough. You're making a mountain out of little pile of dust.

It's a little pile of dust when you have someone come over to scope out
a new heating system, giving you an estimate and they are recommending
adding a heat pump, and they don't even look to see you have only a 60A panel?
Very well, carry on.





I didn't like the guy who wanted to reline my chimney. He said oil
burned hotter. Maybe but it's been burning hotter all these years too,
and it's not a masonry chimney. So for that and several other things
about him, I called anotehr company.

So counting the quack there have been 4 proposals and no one objected to
using the oil furnace, even though they know all about the airspeed, and
the only one to comment on the fusebox was the quack.

That's a good one Micky! You want to add a heat pump, have only a 60A
panel, and you think the only guy who checked what size service you have
is the quack?



But in your
honor I'll explicitly ask one or two of them. They were all throrough
and I'm sure they'll say it's fine.

Carry on then. Have you even figured out the economics of oil vs heat
pump in your area?

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:55:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:30:28 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:12:19 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:14:07 -0400, micky
wrote:

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a
home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the
outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget
which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental
electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have
improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see
how you can change the laws of physics.


I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil
heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump
and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil
I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years
experience, suggested it.
Actually not uncommon

And what do they do when the old oil furnace blower pushes air at it's
fixed higher speed rate, suited to a 120K BTU furnace and you have air
coming out that feels cold?

Only if I feel the air coming out at all, and I only do that when I'm
barefoot in the bathroom. How much time do you think I spend barefoot
in the bathroom? 20 or 30 minutes a week.

How about when the furnace goes kaput in
5 years and then you have the additional cost of screwing with removing
the heat pump coils, re-installing, doing that work over?

Of course there will be that additional cost, some time in the future.
I knew that before I talked to anyone.

What's the
benefit of a new furnace that will be higher efficiency and not cost
that much more for the eqpt, done at the same time?

As to these guys having 50 years experience, I'm not so impressed.

And two other estimators from other companies reacted the same way.

Micky already said he had someone out that gave an estimate on adding a
heat pump system and they didn't even look at the panel. He said he
has a 60A panel. Nuff said on that one.

More than enough. You're making a mountain out of little pile of dust.

I didn't like the guy who wanted to reline my chimney. He said oil
burned hotter. Maybe but it's been burning hotter all these years too,
and it's not a masonry chimney. So for that and several other things
about him, I called anotehr company.

So counting the quack there have been 4 proposals and no one objected to
using the oil furnace, even though they know all about the airspeed, and
the only one to comment on the fusebox was the quack. But in your
honor I'll explicitly ask one or two of them. They were all throrough
and I'm sure they'll say it's fine.
If you use oil for backup 60 is likely adequate - barely - but you
wouldn't get to install it thet way here (and you'd have a hell of a
time selling the house and getting new insurance with a 60amp service)

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:09:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:



I didn't like the guy who wanted to reline my chimney. He said oil
burned hotter. Maybe but it's been burning hotter all these years too,
and it's not a masonry chimney. So for that and several other things
about him, I called anotehr company.

So counting the quack there have been 4 proposals and no one objected to
using the oil furnace, even though they know all about the airspeed, and
the only one to comment on the fusebox was the quack.

That's a good one Micky! You want to add a heat pump, have only a 60A
panel, and you think the only guy who checked what size service you have
is the quack?

A) He said I'd probably need a new one, but he didn't check what I had.

B) hew was a quack for several other reasons as I had clearly written,
about 2 of them. You a) just like to argue, b) like to argue with
someone who gets the better of you in political discussions.

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:09:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:



I didn't like the guy who wanted to reline my chimney. He said oil
burned hotter. Maybe but it's been burning hotter all these years too,
and it's not a masonry chimney. So for that and several other things
about him, I called anotehr company.

So counting the quack there have been 4 proposals and no one objected to
using the oil furnace, even though they know all about the airspeed, and
the only one to comment on the fusebox was the quack.

That's a good one Micky! You want to add a heat pump, have only a 60A
panel, and you think the only guy who checked what size service you have
is the quack?

A) He said I'd probably need a new one, but he didn't check what I had.

Suggesting you probably need a new service/panel without even checking
what it is, finding out it's 60A,
makes him dumber than the rest. And he's the only one that had anything
to say about the service. Go figure.




B) hew was a quack for several other reasons as I had clearly written,
about 2 of them. You a) just like to argue, b) like to argue with
someone who gets the better of you in political discussions.


Not arguing, just observing that while you say some of these HVAC guys
had 50 years experience, according to you not one of them bothered to check
what kind of service you have to support a heat pump and the service is
just 60A. So, like I said, just carry on, you're dealing with morons.